Pay Cuts in Commercial Semi State

MI5

Looks like Lenihan, may go after the state commercial companies. ESB, CIE, Bord Gais.
And well he should. Absolutely no reason what so ever why they should be protected from the cold winds blowing in the private and general public service sectors.
Go for it Brian. Let's get the whole economy competitive again.

MI5

Diarmuid

CIE are the poster boy of why Government run monopoly is a very bad thing. How long have we been waiting for timetables at bus stops with the time the fcukin bus will arrive. JHC, if you can't implement that how useless are you?

Nody

Did not ESB have some seriously silly high averages for salaries (I recall a high 70s figure but that is from foggy memory)?

Update; a quick google puts one at 92k a year from 2006 Deloitte report and second at 67k. I think it is safe to say that there is room for trimming there esp. considering the rage of the PS at 48ish a year.

Ordinary man

I believe this was one of the first that should have been looked at. If the ESB were able to reduce their prices by 10% it would be a saving for every home and business in Ireland(reducing overall prces hopefully) Insurances should be looked at too but i don't know if the government could interfer. They should be looking at reducing overall cost of living and cost of business as well as wage adjustments.

joolsveer

Is RTE included in this group? I think some pay cuts would help their perspective!

Rujib1

joolsveer wrote: »

Is RTE included in this group? I think some pay cuts would help their perspective!

Yeah, it is said that, that crackpot who launched into Pat Kenny on Frontline, has been appointed chairman of a new quango called "commercial semi state remuneration review comittee".
Poor Pat Kenny, might have to sell of that plot of land he quatted on out there in Howth, when our hero is finished with him :D

Riskymove

joolsveer wrote: »

Is RTE included in this group? I think some pay cuts would help their perspective!

I thought there had been widespread cuts in salaries at RTE already, no?


While semi-states who are being suibsidised and are making losses should have reviews I dont see why profit-making ones should


would high profit-making private sector firms propose cuts to their staff?

seclachi

Nody wrote: »

Did not ESB have some seriously silly high averages for salaries (I recall a high 70s figure but that is from foggy memory)?

Update; a quick google puts one at 92k a year from 2006 Deloitte report and second at 67k. I think it is safe to say that there is room for trimming there esp. considering the rage of the PS at 48ish a year.

I have heard from a few people that getting a full time job in the esb is pretty much like winning the lotto.

newbie2

Riskymove wrote: »

I thought there had been widespread cuts in salaries at RTE already, no?

There have been cuts across the board - ranging from 5% to 15%. Agrred and implemented during the early summer.

Rujib1

Riskymove wrote: »

I thought there had been widespread cuts in salaries at RTE already, no?


While semi-states who are being suibsidised and are making losses should have reviews I dont see why profit-making ones should


would high profit-making private sector firms propose cuts to their staff?

Biggest profit making state company is ESB. Why shouldn't they have a pay cut, and a very deep one at that. Average pay in that company is €78k. It's like that because time and again they have held a gun to the heads of sucessive governments over the years. More than any one group of workers they can hold the entire country to ransom and have done so on numerous occasions in the past. That is why governments have not had the balls to deal with them.
Cut their pay, and make the company pass the savings on to the consumer.
This is all about everybody shouldering the pain including semi state workers, passing those savings on where the particular company is profitable.

It's only fair and equitable.

R1

Riskymove

Rujib1 wrote: »

Cut their pay, and make the company pass the savings on to the consumer.
This is all about everybody shouldering the pain including semi state workers, passing those savings on where the particular company is profitable.

It's only fair and equitable.

R1

but he said himself last night that it would not affect the price of electricity?

ESB workers (and other semi-states) are not paid directly out of state revenue therefore reducing their pay would play no role in reducing the deficit

are profitable private companies to be forced to cut staff pay and lower their prices by Government legislation too?

delop

'The General Secretary of the Technical Engineering and Electrical Union (TEEU) Eamon Devoy has said pay cuts to semi-state workers will not be tolertated.'

I wonder if they were privatized how militant would Mr. Devoy be then...

Absurdum

Rujib1 wrote: »

Biggest profit making state company is ESB. Why shouldn't they have a pay cut, and a very deep one at that. Average pay in that company is €78k. It's like that because time and again they have held a gun to the heads of sucessive governments over the years. More than any one group of workers they can hold the entire country to ransom and have done so on numerous occasions in the past. That is why governments have not had the balls to deal with them.
Cut their pay, and make the company pass the savings on to the consumer.
This is all about everybody shouldering the pain including semi state workers, passing those savings on where the particular company is profitable.

It's only fair and equitable.

R1

Making a truthful and accurate post would be fair and equitable.

Riskymove

delop wrote: »

'The General Secretary of the Technical Engineering and Electrical Union (TEEU) Eamon Devoy has said pay cuts to semi-state workers will not be tolertated.'

I wonder if they were privatized how militant would Mr. Devoy be then...

the TEEU represents both private and public sector

for those of you with short term memorys you might recall the little matter of an electricians strike during the summer, seems pretty miltant to me

Pete4779

Rujib1 wrote: »

Biggest profit making state company is ESB. Why shouldn't they have a pay cut, .......It's only fair and equitable.

Because ESB are actually a very well-run company that makes money. The price increases they were forced to pass on to customers over the past few years were mandated by government and against the wishes of ESB management.

If they are profitable, then they can reward their staff - that is what is "fair and equitable".

In fact, to get down to brass tacks, if it's about fair and equitable then the people on welfare now would have a 60% cut in benefits as they contribute so little to the system. Furthermore, people on low 20k/year salaries would be paying compulsory health insurance like in Germany and not getting it for free from those who make over 60k/year.

Rujib1

delop wrote: »

'The General Secretary of the Technical Engineering and Electrical Union (TEEU) Eamon Devoy has said pay cuts to semi-state workers will not be tolertated.'

I wonder if they were privatized how militant would Mr. Devoy be then...

Good point. ESB is one of the few assets the government has, which could be sold off for a good price. Lenny need the cash, so why not sell it off?

Absurdum

Pete4779 wrote: »

Because ESB are actually a very well-run company that makes money. The price increases they were forced to pass on to customers over the past few years were mandated by government and against the wishes of ESB management.

These are facts that are constantly ignored here.

gandalf

The thing about these Semi-State bodies is that they may be profitable but their costs effect everyone in the country. If a wage readjustment can reduce the charges everyone pays for lets say electricity then it benefits everyone and business and makes the country as an entity more competitive which is the name of the game now.

Absurdum

gandalf wrote: »

. If a wage readjustment can reduce the charges everyone pays for lets say electricity then it benefits everyone and business and makes the country as an entity more competitive which is the name of the game now.

The regulator is who fixes the price of electricity.

Riskymove

Absurdum wrote: »

The regulator is who fixes the price of electricity.

and to quote Lenihan again, as people seem to have missed it, he said that pay cuts "would not have a big impact on electricity prices"

Lenihan is not talking about pay-cuts in order to lower the price of electricity, thats not what his aim is.

Rujib1

Absurdum wrote: »

These are facts that are constantly ignored here.

Effectively a state monoply. I know there are a few small independents, but in reality ESB is monopoly. It is well run to be fair. That's no reason for them to escape the cuts in the economy in general.
Remember, without a functioning and growing economy, the ESB will quickly run into commercial difficulties like any other company.

billy the squid

If lenihan wanted to reduce the cost of electricity all he would have to do is recommend to the regulator to do so. This would force the ESB to cut it's costs.

Why should people working in a profitable company be subjected to pay cuts though.

any pay rises they received were as a result of partnership agreements. these can now be allowed to expire and a pay freeze introduced.

and the price of electricity has in fact being going down in recent months.

Riskymove

Rujib1 wrote: »

Remember, without a functioning and growing economy, the ESB will quickly run into commercial difficulties like any other company.

how will a reduction in pay to ESB workers contribute to a functioning and growing economy?

zootroid

Pete4779 wrote: »

Because ESB are actually a very well-run company that makes money. The price increases they were forced to pass on to customers over the past few years were mandated by government and against the wishes of ESB management.

If they are profitable, then they can reward their staff - that is what is "fair and equitable".

In fact, to get down to brass tacks, if it's about fair and equitable then the people on welfare now would have a 60% cut in benefits as they contribute so little to the system. Furthermore, people on low 20k/year salaries would be paying compulsory health insurance like in Germany and not getting it for free from those who make over 60k/year.

It's very easy to be profitable when you are practically a monopoly, and the product/service you sell is essential to the entire population.

ei.sdraob

Ordinary man wrote: »

I believe this was one of the first that should have been looked at. If the ESB were able to reduce their prices by 10% it would be a saving for every home and business in Ireland(reducing overall prces hopefully) Insurances should be looked at too but i don't know if the government could interfer. They should be looking at reducing overall cost of living and cost of business as well as wage adjustments.

ESB are able to reduce by 10% (and more) and asked the regulator to do so

but were not allowed to reduce prices by state Regulator in order not to hurt "co petition" (airtricity and other green fluffy companies whose electricity costs a bit)

as for salaries not everyone is on high salaries (ive been there, just about paid for living in Dublin) like all of temp/contract staff,
tho the core are fairly well paid, wouldnt hurt to get a paycut

tho then again they are not a state company so we are threading on dangerous "communist" like ground, and last thing the government need are strikes in ESB like happened in 80s, now that will bring the country to a standstill

/

MI5

Riskymove wrote: »

how will a reduction in pay to ESB workers contribute to a functioning and growing economy?

Pass on savings. Help the general economy become more competitive.

Look, back over the past 15 years. Demand for power grew enormously on the back of the surging economy. ESB benefited. Their employees benefited, as indeed did workers of all kinds in all sorts of private sector businesses and public sector benefited through benchmarking.

Now the hard times have arrived. Economy is contracting. Government effectively devaluing, through the only means at it's disposal. That's through pay cuts, as we cannot devalue the euro.

Everybody it seems apart from semi state employees have had their pay cut.

There is absolutely no reason why any one sector should be immune.

Make savings in these areas. Pass savings on to general economy. It just makes a lot of basic sense to me at least.

ei.sdraob

MI5 wrote: »

Pass on savings. Help the general economy become more competitive.

i already posted ESB accounts details before (google them they are available for free)

the salaries are a tiny portion of the costs

majority of the cost is fuel and maintenance

Riskymove

MI5 wrote: »

Pass on savings. Help the general economy become more competitive.

for the third time, it has been suggested by Lenihan himself that a pay cut wont have a big impact on prices so therefore no savings to be passed on

balrog

the salaries are a tiny portion of the costs

Ever bit helps and they should take a pay cut. They cant hold us to ransom. Cut them now

Riskymove

balrog wrote: »

Ever bit helps and they should take a pay cut. They cant hold us to ransom. Cut them now

how are they holding you to ransom?

ei.sdraob

Riskymove wrote: »

for the third time, it has been suggested by Lenihan himself that a pay cut wont have a big impact on prices so therefore no savings to be passed on

it wont because employees salaries are a tiny percentage of overall expenses and falling rapidly as employee numbers fall

this would be apparent to anyone who bothers looking at accounts
http://www.esb.ie/downloads/about_esb/2007/esb-annual-report-complete-2007.pdf

but lets not have facts get in the way of passionate and uninformed arguments eh?

another interesting load info here
http://www.esb.ie/downloads/facts-at-a-glance-2008.pdf