public sector unions want our support

soups05

i was just catching up on the day's news when i read this on independant.ie

"UNION leaders plan to get private sector workers on board for a disruptive campaign of industrial action after public servants suffered a €1bn pay cut."


now they are not suggesting we in the private sector strike to increase thier pay but they want

"a campaign based on non co-operation, including work-to-rule actions"

now I admit that there are some in the public sector who have my sympathy and some in the private sector who could take this action and you would not see any differance.

but can the unions really be so out of touch with the general public? do they think anyone will support them?

or am I the one out of touch? would you support a move to help the public sector get thier pay cut reversed?

link:http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/unions-want-private-sector-on-board-for-national-protest-1973818.html

oh and another about the rise they will get next year : http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/now-public-sector-staff-to-share-8364230m-rise-1973792.html

INSCOPE

On the same page half of the Irish companies will be introducing pay freezes.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/half-of-all-irish-companies-plan-pay-freezes-next-year-1974676.html

Senna

The Unions are loosing their support and trying to gain it elsewhere.
I hope their disgraceful lack of negotiations and protectionism for the higher paid and longer serving staff is their undoing.

me_right_one

OP YOU are in touch, the unions are out of touch. More strikes? Yea, that'll help everybody:rolleyes:

33% God

The unions are there primarily to campaign on behalf of their members. They must ballot their members on any proposals, If their members vote to take action then the union will do so, if they vote not to then the union will not.
If no-one supports this action then it won't go ahead.

me_right_one

33% God wrote: »

The unions are there primarily to campaign on behalf of their members. They must ballot their members on any proposals, If their members vote to take action then the union will do so, if they vote not to then the union will not.
If no-one supports this action then it won't go ahead.

All true. But union leaders always try to convince members to vote to meet their greedy ends. They're absolutely no better than the bankers, they're in the same league. And most members listen to their leaders, and even those who don't usually vote with the crowd. Once upon a time, union leaders striked to get equality and fairness. Now its all about getting as much money as you can:mad:

tbh

soups05 wrote: »

"UNION leaders plan to get private sector workers on board for a disruptive campaign of industrial action after public servants suffered a €1bn pay cut."

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahhahaa.a..........ahhhhhh....

TestTransmission

2 words

**** em

Cabaal

I for one will not support them in any way shape or form, I know of nobody in the public sector who has lost their job in the past 18 months with the exception of contracts that were not renewed which is not the same thing as it would have happened in the "good times".

Where as I've lost count of those in the private sector who have lost their jobs, had pay cut, had hours cut etc, these same people did not make millions during the good times and yet they have no job security and don't know if they'll have their job this time next month.

By striking these idiots will put off any foreign investment in this country and set back any chance we have of getting out of a recession, if the ESB start striking then we might as well move back to the power cuts in the 80's....

Any IT company’s that run operations in Ireland will not want power cuts and any that are affected will think twice about keeping operations in Ireland and rightly so I wouldn't blame them one bit and in the end if all this happens I won't blame the government the government has no choice in this at this stage, it must make hard decisions or the country sinks.

Think of government as a company:
- Company’s make good and bad choices depending on the management in charge
- If a company runs into money problems what do they do?, well they have pretty much three choices:
- Increases product prices (increases tax's)
- Cut pay
- Cut jobs

Now as with any company you can only increase the selling price of your product before consumer will not buy it....same goes for tax's.

So this leaves you with job cuts or wage cuts, the unions will not on any level except job cuts so that leaves wage cuts.

Now the fact the unions suggested taking unpaid leave as a cost saving messure seems insane to me, if a company can afford to give unpaid leave to a high percentage of its workforce but still provide the same product/services this means it is overstaffed.....the same goes for the public sector!

Now people will blame the current government and perhaps they did make mistakes (I’m not getting into that debate in this post) but playing the blame game does not unfortunately sort our present situation and regardless of what government is in power ****e decisions have to be made to sort out this mess.

Nobody likes these decisions including me but what have very limited options.

Bandit12

They'll be getting my full support

PoleStar

Cabaal wrote: »

Where as I've lost count of those in the private sector who have lost their jobs, had pay cut, had hours cut etc, these same people did not make millions during the good times and yet they have no job security and don't know if they'll have their job this time next month.

Is this a fact you can back up?

Frequently quotes like this were made anecdotally.

However the FACTS are that only 1 in 7 private companies have cut the salaries of their workers (check Irish Independent amongst others).

Now you might say "well what about those in the private sector that lost their jobs".

Again this argument is irrelevant to the public sector pay cuts because they are no longer in the discussion regarding pay rates. And in fact, they might have as much gripe with the private sector workers who still have jobs and havent taken pay cuts.

Example, Dell workers in Limerick lost their jobs. The company directors had previously negotiated with them to reduce salaries to save jobs and retain work in Ireland. The workers said "No way" and thus they had no option but to relocate elswhere.

We here again and again about the private sector workers cutting pay. Some of the banks who caused the mess are giving pay rises. How might a public sector worker feel about taking a pay cut and yet have to pay money to the insitutions that actually caused this mess so that they can give a pay rise.

I guess my bottom line is that everyone has taken a hit in the recession. Whether or not public sector workers get paid more is irrelevant. Peoples outgoings are based on their income so no matter what you earn (obviosuly within reason), a pay cut is a pay cut and thus it makes it harder to get by.

Cabaal

PoleStar wrote: »

Is this a fact you can back up?

Frequently quotes like this were made anecdotally.

Atleats quote me correctly when you try to poke at my post I said...

I know of nobody in the public sector who has lost their job in the past 18 months with the exception of contracts that were not renewed which is not the same thing as it would have happened in the "good times".

Where as I've lost count of those in the private sector who have lost their jobs, had pay cut, had hours cut etc, these same people did not make millions during the good times and yet they have no job security and don't know if they'll have their job this time next month.

It is evident this is my personal view based on my experinces with people I know in both sectors in different parts of the country as the "I know" part refers to both sectors

I guess my bottom line is that everyone has taken a hit in the recession. Whether or not public sector workers get paid more is irrelevant. Peoples outgoings are based on their income so no matter what you earn (obviosuly within reason), a pay cut is a pay cut and thus it makes it harder to get by.

I'd agree a pay cut is a pay cut is a pay cut, it sucks no matter what but if me taking a 5% pay cut meant I'd have a job I'd take it, the problem is that the public sector know they won't loose their job so they'lll fight any paycut.....the unions won't allow the jobs to go.

magick

tbh wrote: »

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahhahaa.a..........ahhhhhh....

& to add to that ahahahahahah

No ............. let them live in the real world for once

cournioni

Ireland... Possibly one of the greediest nations in the world.

RATM

Divide et Impera

zoemax

Ireland... Possibly one of the greediest nations in the world.

Ireland... Possibly the biggest nation of begrudgers in the world.

cournioni

zoemax wrote: »

Ireland... Possibly the biggest nation of begrudgers in the world.

That too.

CreepingDeath

soups05 wrote: »

"UNION leaders plan to get private sector workers on board for a disruptive campaign of industrial action after public servants suffered a €1bn pay cut."

The private sector workers haven't the time, we're working too hard carrying those greedy, lazy, incompetent shites who have an over-inflated sense of entitlement.

soups05

I guess I kinda expect this to be a ps abuse thread but what i was hoping for was more of a debate about the union leaders themselves. Why can they not see sense and talk to thier membership about accepting the cuts.

they try to say that the private sector in the form of IBEC is waiting to cut our pay. where were the unions when my pay was cut earlier this year, same place they where when my hours got cut back 2 months later.

the unions dont give a stuff about the private sector they simply want to protect thier public sector pay rates. I dont really blame the workers because no one really wants to take a cut.

but its hard to feel sorry for some, like that 20 something year old ps on the news "struggling" on "just €55,000 a year" thats 3 times what i was getting before i was cut. :mad:

wes

I have sympathy for the public service employees, but I won't be risking my job to save there pay, and I wouldn't expect them to do so for me either.

diverdriver

Is this a fact you can back up?

Frequently quotes like this were made anecdotally.

However the FACTS are that only 1 in 7 private companies have cut the salaries of their workers (check Irish Independent amongst others).

Polestar are you living in a bubble? Are you so out of touch with the reality of the situation that you think that the 'fact' that only 1 in 7 of private companies have cut the the salaries of their workers actually reflects the reality of the situation out there? Hasn't it occured to you that many companies don't cut the pay of their workers for the simple reason that they were never well paid in the first place. Or pay was cut for the remaining workers, those that remain after making others redundant?

Let me give you some non anecdotal facts that I personally am aware of partly in my own family and partly elsewhere. My sister and her husband had a thriving Architects practice, he employed 20 to 30 people. He's now down to one, has had to close his office and is now living off the money he saved in the good times and the last few jobs in his book, waiting for a change in the economy. That's a fact!

My other brother in law is on a three day week, that's not a pay cut is it? He's lucky. The company closed several outlying branches. No, they didn't get a pay cut either. They just lost their jobs.

Another brother in law is an electrician, basically it's just him and the boss left on the books now from dozens. He didn't take a pay cut but his income is down because there is less work out there. None of the former workers took pay cuts either, mainly because they are on the dole.

A friend of mine, she didn't take a pay cut either but then she was only on €450 a week before tax, (that's after ten years in the job) She also lost her second job. None of her colleagues took a pay cut either but they were never exactly well paid but now their hours have been changed so they work longer hours for the same money. Overtime is gone as well and production lines have been shut down. No pay cut?

I didn't take a pay cut either but then I'm self employed and only made enough money this year to cover some of my bills. On top of which, I haven't made any money since October and won't make any until January. Happy Christmas to me!

Meanwhile the unions want all the above people to support them in their safe comfortable pensionable jobs!

Dream on!

Meanwhile on the other side, my public service friends and relatives, haven't had their hours cut, haven't lost their jobs or their pensions. They have now taken pay cuts. Fortunately most of them are well paid and all except two of them are realistic enough to know that it has to happen. The two are a married couple with what I call 'hobby jobs' in that they would probably do the same thing for free and lucked into the handiest jobs in the world. They complain bitterly even though the effect on their lifestyle is precisely nil. I've lost all respect for them.

None of these are anecdotal. Of course I could be making it all up but short of introducing you to my friends and family I cannot prove it. But you can find out yourself, get out of your bubble for five minutes and you'll see reality all around you.

opinion guy

Yeah forget the public sector.

Semi-states for pay cuts anyone ? Not all of them. Don't think those under 30k should get cut (nor should the PSers under 30k). But come-on fair is fair if public sector get smacked semi-states shoudl too

Riamfada

Damn commie nazis

Thinkingaboutit

After dealing with people of the HSE and the Dept of Social Welfare, my attitude is one of profound dislike. I hope the IMF comes in and sacks one third of them. They are, they must be, following some form of unofficial work to rule to get more staff. Twice the work could be done with half the staff in any other sector. Well, they don't have my support anyhow.

ejmaztec

PoleStar wrote: »

However the FACTS are that only 1 in 7 private companies have cut the salaries of their workers (check Irish Independent amongst others).

1 in 7 private companies have reduced salaries, and the other 6 have gone bust.

wes

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

After dealing with people of the HSE and the Dept of Social Welfare, my attitude is one of profound dislike. I hope the IMF comes in and sacks one third of them. They are, they must be, following some form of unofficial work to rule to get more staff. Twice the work could be done with half the staff in any other sector. Well, they don't have my support anyhow.

Oh dear, you don't want the IMF in this country. They will make things a lot worse.

ScumLord

I say just give them everything they want, we're doomed anyway this way we'll have someone to blame when FF do legger.

laugh

PoleStar wrote: »

Again this argument is irrelevant to the public sector pay cuts because they are no longer in the discussion regarding pay rates.

This is the most rubbish I have ever read in one sentence, people laid off, hundreds of thousands of them have had a 100% paycut and when comparing the public service to private sector that MUST be taken into account. It is my opinion that between redundancies, shortened working hours and pay cuts the private sector on the whole has taken a 30-40% paycut. No pay rise to the public service is ever possible unless the private sector generate that money.

opinion guy

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

After dealing with people of the HSE and the Dept of Social Welfare, my attitude is one of profound dislike. I hope the IMF comes in and sacks one third of them. They are, they must be, following some form of unofficial work to rule to get more staff. Twice the work could be done with half the staff in any other sector. Well, they don't have my support anyhow.

How many times....

The IMF have said they are not remotely worried about having to come in here. Aside from that they don't come in unless invited. Aside from that we are in the EU and they are the ones who would come in and so far we are managing without them.

toiletduck

soups05 wrote: »

would you support a move to help the public sector get thier pay cut reversed?

Absolutely not.


Sucks and all for them, but what's the alternative? 12 days leave 'temporarily'... now that I would have angry about if it had got through :pac:

They want to strike? Fine, let them dig their own graves.

Retarded thread is retarded.

Too much horsesh1t being spouted by people on both sides. Its like a playground squabble or something. People contradicting themselves all over the shop. The country is in an even worse state than i thought if this is representative of our nations intellect.

I keep telling myself that i'm finished with these PS threads but i can't help it. Its like rubbernecking at a 50 car pile up, the lulz just keep coming thick and fast.

I mean.....

Let me give you some non anecdotal facts that I personally am aware of partly in my own family and partly elsewhere. My sister and her husband..........My other brother in law.........Another brother in law......A friend of mine.......my public service friends and relatives,....None of these are anecdotal....

You need to look up the term anecdotal. Seriously.