Best way to go about getting 2 Beagle pups?

Piste

Hi there, I'm looking into getting 2 Beagle pups but I'm not sure where to start. I've seen a load of ads on donedeal.ie which do look reputable, but I'd be afraid of buying from puppy farms. That said, the irishdogs.ie site links to donedeal.ie for dog sales, and donedeal.ie claims to have a policy of non-tolerance towards puppy farm, or suspected puppy farms. There are numbers for the secretaries of beagle clubs in Ireland, but I saw on another post in this forum that they don't disclose numbers of breeders. I'm not looking for a hunter or showdog, just 2 healthy, happy puppies for a family that will love them and take good care of them. I know it says in the charter not to discuss breeders, so could people PM me if they have any recommendations? Would it be a bad idea to respond to any of the donedeal.ie ads, provided I visited the farms, checked out the mother and puppies etc?

Ideally I'd like two puppies who came from 2 beagles that were housepets, and not bred specifically for show or sport.

Thanks in advance!

kildara

Do you specifically want two puppies?
Two from the same litter is not a good idea (or two puppies the same age from different litters would be the same). They will have a very strong bond with each other and so may make bonding with you and your family that bit harder. Training them will be alot harder as they will be bouncing off each other - generally being puppies!
Also, if you wait a wee while and train the first one, training the second should be a breeze as the second one will learn from the older one.
You may also struggle to find a reputable breeder to sell two from the same litter.
But, if you do decide to get two, get a dog and a bitch - should result in a quiter, calmer house when they grow up and jostle for hierarchy.

Piste

Would two pups from the same litter really be a bad idea? I thought it might make it easier for them to settle in if they had each other, but if it would be more difficult then I'd hope to get two pups about the same age from different litters. Thanks for the advice

kildara

You may just find it alot more difficult to train two pups of the same age at the same time - regardless of whether they are from the same litter or not.
They will spend so much time together (while you are out of the house) that their bond with each other will be quite strong and this may impact on how they bond with you and your family.
Although, if you have alot of spare time on your hands you may cope perfectly well with the time and patience for two of the same age. But then you would be there to help the pup settle in, and so wouldnt need another to do this for you!
As I said above, if you get one and train him/her first, then s/he will pretty much train the second one for you. The new pup (should!) look to the older one and mimic them on command.
Saying all that, there are people who have siblings and say they have no problems.
The general consensus though, is to wait a while.

dan_d

My parents were looking into this recently, and they went to our local pet shop. Well, less of a pet shop - it's a kennel and cattery, with a feed store attached, a private pusiness. The guy there was able to give them some names of people who bred beagles. They have to wait a couple of months for the next litter.
They have in the meantime changed their minds as beagles are very expensive (700eur for a puppy), but maybe that would be a good place for you to start? Do you have any local feed store or kennels that you trust, who may be able to give you some breeder names?
Do you know beagles have a tendency to howl aswell? Check out some YouTube videos......they're so cute, but just be aware that they tend to bay!

andreac

I would highly recommend you dont get 2 pups of the same age and even more so from the same litter.
Theres a thing called littermate syndrome where the pups end up bonding to each other and can be very hard to train etc and end up bonding with each other more so to their owner.

Its much easier to train one pup and then maybe get another when that dog is a year old or so.

Beagles are hunters and require a huge amount of exercise and can be very destructive if they dont get this. So just be prepared to put in a lot of work with these dogs.

Most experienced dog owners will not advise someone to get 2 pups of the same age or even more so from the same litter.

Piste

Ok thanks for the advice

My parents both work from home and business is slow atm so they'll have a good bit of time to train them. Also for the Christmas holidays myself and my sister will be at home all the time for 3 weeks so we'll be able to settle them in, so they'll have all our time for the first few weeks at least. We're hoping to meet with the vet we had for our last dog to ask him about managing the Beagles.

Getting one pup and then another sometime later sounds like a good idea, how long would we have to leave it between getting the first pup and the second? Until the first is trained or a bit longer?

ha-ya-said-what

All of our dogs were got as pups (4 here), two at a time, maybe a couple of days to a week apart. House training was never an issue, they all went at their own pace, some were trained in a matter of days others weeks. I just find it easier to house train all at the one time, instead of dragging it on for double the length by holding out to get the 2nd pup, plus they were far happier in pairs cos they had another pup to play with, so were far quieter and slept better at night.

andreac

I would recommend waiting til the first pup is at least a year old and all of the basic training etc is out of the way and sorted.

star-pants

I'd say wait until the first one is trained at least - because it can actually be easier to train a second pup if there's one in the house who's trained, as they'll follow them, see what they're up to, get the scent of wee out the back and so forth.

A friend of mine has 3 golden labs, and the first one was well trained before getting the second one (I was living with them at the time) and I found it so much easier with the second pup because they learn and copy. (As well as you obviously having to train anyway but they pick it up a bit quicker I find).

Regarding legit breeders, you could contact the IKC and ask for a list of breeders.
If you wanna get them online - which once you're careful I think is ok. You need to be very aware.
- Ask the right questions, parents must be reg, pup must be chipped /reg'd/vaccinated / wormed and so forth
- You should be allowed to view the parents (sometiems the father isn't always physically available if they just got him in to sire the pups), view the papers
- View where the mother / pups are living currently, see the conditions
- See what the pups are like playing around, you can take one to one side sometimes and see how is it with you
- Don't get a pup any younger than 8weeks old - any older than that is usually fine, we got our pup at almost 9wks
- The breeder shouldn't mind you asking a million and one questions, in fact they should encourage it
- Possibly get a vet check before you buy, for the likes of parvo etc

As said, getting two pups together can be a big handful, because they'll both mess about and so forth and it can be harder to train/control. Whereas if one is home and trained first, and then the second comes along, you've got experience and you've got the trained pup who will help the untrained one
But if you have the time and patience - you could try two pups together - but people seem to recommend not littermates

andreac

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

All of our dogs were got as pups (4 here), two at a time, maybe a couple of days to a week apart. House training was never an issue, they all went at their own pace, some were trained in a matter of days others weeks. I just find it easier to house train all at the one time, instead of dragging it on for double the length by holding out to get the 2nd pup, plus they were far happier in pairs cos they had another pup to play with, so were far quieter and slept better at night.

Sounds like you had a good experience with 2, but most of the time its the opposite, double the work, training, trouble etc.

ha-ya-said-what

Nah patience is the key I find, plus some dogs are just easy to house train others aren't. Anyone I've known to get a pup and consider a 2nd always get them around the same time, they find it easier to train two at once and the companionship for the pups is a bonus.

For a house with no dogs tho and thinking about getting two I've have to recommend getting two at once, due to the fact that if they were to wait a year to get the 2nd pup the 1st one may have claimed the "top dog" status and bully the pup, and if not and did take to the pup, playing is a bit of an issue as a pup is fragile and an older dog can easily hurt em. All I can say from experience.

Piste

Haha I'm glad you said that andreac, ha-ya-said-what's experience told me pretty much exactly what I wanted to hear. It's probably a good thing you're keeping my expectations more realistic!

star-pants

If you wanna try two pups together by all means do - it just might require a bit more time/effort but it'd be worth it I guess.
Regarding 'top dog' - one dog is going to want to be 'top dog' at some point.
I got my pup when our other dog was 2&half years old and yes she does dominate (but thats normal) but we didn't have any issues, you have to be careful in the first week or so, but they got on great once Lily realised the pup wasn't a threat. So it can work out that way too.

Decision is up to you Piste there's pros and cons for both so it probably doesn't matter which you choose.

ha-ya-said-what

Haha I have seen war in some houses tho "the whole mimic the older/adult dog" has not happened, infact the reverse has, pup teaches adult!

Pup piddles on the floor..... usual routine outside and all the rest, later that evening he gets all the attention

Older dog it's kinda like " well if that little buggar can piddle on the floor and still get all the attention so can I, house trained or not!"

iguana

Piste wrote: »

Would two pups from the same litter really be a bad idea?

Imo it's the type of thing that has pluses and minuses. I had two littermate pups and I never had any real problems with them. Their bond to each other was incredibly strong but it didn't stop them from bonding with us at all. I also found it a massive boon to teaching them recall as I'd take them out together and let one run about while keeping the other on a lead, then swap over. This meant they were keen to explore but also extremely focused on us and would come back the instant they were called.

My main problem was when one of the pups was poisoned and died. It left the remaining dog extremely lost. His brother was as close as anyone can get to having an other half and losing him was very difficult. When we got another dog we rehomed a pup who was coincidentally born in the same week as the other. They were both 7 months when we introduced Toby and they now have an extremely close bond. But I don't think it anyway reduces their bond for us.

If you get littermates you will probably have to spend time training them separately, especially when it comes to things like correct lead walking as two young dogs together can be likely to focus on each other rather than the person walking them.

As has been said Beagles are very, very active dogs. They are bred to run ahead of horses for hours and hours while on a scent. They have one of the strongest senses of smell of any dog (2nd to bloodhounds I think) and their hunt and chase instinct is very strong. You will need to allow them off-lead exercise (somewhere enclosed) but you will have to work very hard to keep them focused on you. Training their recall like I did by allowing one off-lead at a time is very helpful for this, but it's only a start. Playing hide and seek, by letting them off lead somewhere safe and then hiding where you can still see them but so they have to find you, is also helpful as it teaches them to keep focused on where you are on a walk. And don't get in a habit of letting them choose the path you walk. Don't stop for them if they are investigating a smell, just keep walking where you intended. Make sure they get they know you are leading the walk and feel that if they don't stay on your path they will be left behind. But they will still be very difficult to train and exercise enough.

Can I ask why you want Beagles? They really are lovely dogs, but they are a lot of hard work. They need a lot of exercise or they become destructive, but it's also very difficult to give them this exercise because of their scent and chase hunt instinct. I have springer spaniels which have a similar chase instincts but nothing like as strong and I would never attempt to own a beagle because I would not be confident of my ability to give it the exercise and training it needs.

star-pants

Well that's the trick, it's like when you get a baby and a child is present in the house already - you have to introduce the pup to the dog, let the dog allow the pup in,
give the dog a place it can get away from the pup and make sure you don't ignore the dog and give the pup all the attention. You have to make sure that they get equal attention.
Our older dog now gives out to us if we give out to the pup (ok she's nearly 1 but still)

edit- Iguana that's awful about the pup passing away, I can't imagine how you guys and of course the poor pup losing his brother

Piste

Star-Pants, would you (and the other mods of course!) mind if I put up some links to some offers I saw on donedeal.ie for beagle puppies so I can get advice on whether the sellers seem reputable or not? No worries if it's against the charter!

star-pants

Sorry Piste but we don't allow links to ads because people have gone and given those in the ads trouble before if *they* feel they're not legit.
You may by all means pm others/myself for advice on them, but we made a rule that they can't be posted in the forum sorry hun

Piste

Sure no worries, rules are rules! Hopefully my vet will know someone. A lot of these ads look very reputable, but I have a tendency to see what I want to and gloss over faults If it says the father is IKC registered and the mother is a pure bred and the puppies are vacced and wormed is it safe to believe they're legitimate? I don't even mind if they're not proper breeders, a family with a pair of beagles who happened to make babies would be perfect, I just want healthy happy puppies who have had healthy, happy parents.

star-pants

The thing is - you can always ask to view them - and you can ask lots of questions and suss it out.
If you're forking out a lot of money for them, both parents must be IKC reg, as must the puppies (and chipped/vacc'd).

For example , I was browsing on said site myself (I always look for Lhasas lol) and I saw a pair being sold *quick sale* (warning signs right there), the pic showed two pups, looked liek they were covered in sawdust, in a plastic bed (all dirty and bitten/scratched), with just newspaper in it. And a background of bare brick walls. (no heat lamp or anything)
That to me = bad.

As you say you want pups from a loving home, you don't have to commit to anything when you view, so you can explain your concern to the people you call, if they're legit they won't mind you asking/expressing concern, and if/when you go to view them you can sorta see for yourself the set up and so forth.

They also shouldn't be saying they're 'ready to go' before they're at LEAST 8/9 weeks old.
And watch out for specific wording of 'beagle' some say miniature foot beagle and so forth, thus you might not have a full beagle.

Piste

Oh are foot Beagles not pure Beagles? What are they crossed with?

star-pants

Hmm upon googling - foot beagle may mean the regular 13inch or less beagle.

The American Kennel Club and the Canadian Kennel Club recognize two separate varieties of Beagle: the 13-inch for hounds less than 13 inches (33 cm), and the 15-inch for those between 13 and 15 inches (33 and 38 cm). The Kennel Club (UK) and FCI affiliated clubs recognize a single type, with a height of between 13 and 16 inches (33 and 41 cm).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagle

I was looking at the wording of 'miniature' foot beagle in my post above

FerrariRed

Just wanted to say best of luck with getting the Beagles, I have an 8-year-old beagle that we've had since he was a pup. They are hard work but also such a beautiful temperment, just be prepared to give them plenty of exercise while they're young

iguana

FerrariRed wrote: »

Just wanted to say best of luck with getting the Beagles, I have an 8-year-old beagle that we've had since he was a pup. They are hard work but also such a beautiful temperment, just be prepared to give them plenty of exercise while they're young

How is your dog when on a scent? Can you walk the dog offlead and have you managed good recall?

FerrariRed

No, he's completely in his own world once he gets a sniff of anything interesting. So a very long extendable lead has to do for him If he spots a horse he bays straight away as well, despite being a family pet all his life. He certainly has the hunting instinct anyways.

shanagarry

Piste wrote: »

Sure no worries, rules are rules! Hopefully my vet will know someone. A lot of these ads look very reputable, but I have a tendency to see what I want to and gloss over faults If it says the father is IKC registered and the mother is a pure bred and the puppies are vacced and wormed is it safe to believe they're legitimate? I don't even mind if they're not proper breeders, a family with a pair of beagles who happened to make babies would be perfect, I just want healthy happy puppies who have had healthy, happy parents.

One handy trick as an initial screen is to google the seller's contact number and see if you get hits for other breeds of dogs. If so, the puppy farm warning bells should be ringing.

Piste

Yeah that's a good idea, I started doing that yesterday and the particular breeder I'm looking to buy from is only selling Beagle pups on the one website, which does put my mind at rest.

mjffey

Hi Piste,

Did you check out www.petscorner.net? There is on the dogs page a list with all kind of breeders and there are two beagles breeders on.

Have a look. I thought it's a great website. Lots of links to animals websites.

Good luck with your search.

Piste

Thanks for that site, there are two pretty reputable-looking breeders on there I might contact.

We rang a dog trainer who said we must be mad to consider getting two beagles as they'll only bond so closely they'll ignore us. So looks like we'll be getting only one for the moment and maybe another once the first one is trained.

mjffey

I've heard that too. It's anyway maybe better to take only one dog first, concentrate on the training, let him settle,and then take a second one.