My Speeding and Undue Care & Attention Situation - Unjust, IMO

Mark#1

I got stopped by the Garda tonight on my way home from a friend's house.

I had overtaken a moped just as a double continuous white line changed to a single dotted white line. I deliberately waited till the double whites ended, even though I had more than enough visibility to make the move long before the double whites ended.

Garda said I crossed the double white. I was genuinely surprised, but accepted that the back of my car could have crossed the double whites, so I asked was I over the double whites for long. He said it didn't matter - it was black & white: I was over the line and that's all that matters.

They also said I was doing 120kmh (in an 80 limit). They'd asked if I knew why they'd stopped me, and I said I was probably going a little fast. One chuckled and said 120. I drive a 90hp Alhambra. It weighs 2400kg. It takes half an hour an a lot of passanger hooshing to hit 120 on a flat motorway, let alone going up the hill they stopped me on... I reckon I was hitting around 100, which is still technically speeding, so fair enough. But this was a completely empty straight stretch of A road - who wouldn't be doing 100kmh? They said they "had to hit 125 to chase" me. Chase me . . .

The only other vehicle on the road, in front or behind, was that moped.

Aparrently, I'm being sent out two fines: one for driving with undue care & attention (the overtake), one for speeding.

How big a deal would it have been to just tell me to slow things down and send me on my way home. The double whites is a farce of a charge, and they exaggerated my speeding charge. They asked a million questions too - where was I coming from, where was I going, what had I been doing in the place that I was coming from, had I been drinking, where was I working - tons of questions.

TBH, there was something naiive in me that got me wondering if they'd let me go once they added a few bits of info about me together: I was made redundant earlier this year (so I'm broke), I drive a big family car (so it's likely I have kids), I'm coming home from doing something that I'm trying to do to better things for my family, it's Christmas, and the reasons for pulling me over were really a little thin.

I haven't bothered looking up the definitions of "undue", "care" & "attention" - I reckon I have a pretty good idea what they, and the phrase they collectively create, mean. But I wasn't driving with undue care & attention - I deliberately held off on my manouevre till the double whites ended, even though I could see for maybe 1 straight km that the road was completely clear. IMO, my driving would have been more accurately described as "driving with exceptional care, and consideration for an illogical road marking".

But they did say that because the road was pretty empty, they weren't going to bring me to court, so long as I produce my licence & insurance cert within 10 days, and pay the fines in good time.

So . . .

Is the speeding fine a fixed €80?

What's the fine for "undue care & attention"?

Will I get points on my licence?

Any point in appealing anything?


Rip Off Ireland? Alive & well & kicking a man when he's down . . . At christmas . . .


Thanks for any replies,

Mark

cloneslad

The fact that you were speeding was probably why they pulled you on the undue care and attention charge. I'd imagine if you had have been doing under the limit they would have let it slide.

Considering a member of the gardai was killed by a wreckless driver over the weekend they are prob a bit touchy on the subject.

tossy

I feel for you Mark,it sounds like a case where some common sense could have been applied in relation to the white line incident,as for speeding i have no sympathy with you on that one,i got caught doing 100 on an 80 stretch a few months ago,visibility for miles good road,but limits are there for a reason.I took my points and accepted i was in the wrong.

Sorry to hear about your personal circumstances esp in the run up to christmas,but those of us fallen on hard times are not exempt from the rules of the road

Hope you have a good christmas.

NewApproach

Family friend is a former guard, high in the motors division, and he told me once that the Garda handbook says that when overtaking, they should spend the minimum amount of time on the wrong side of the road, which obviously means going faster.
Did you slow back down to the speed limit after overtaking, or carry on at 100/120 whatever it was? Thats the important thing I reckon

high horse

They said they had to do 125kmh to catch up with you? So what? Obviously they have to drive faster than you to catch up with you. Is this a point regularly made by gardai in this kind of situation?

On the speeding thing: you reckon you were hitting 100kmh in an 80 zone. Sounds like speeding to me...

seanybiker

Laws dont change at christmas sadly. Be handy if they did though.

Wouldnt bother appealing it

CharlieCroker

Firstly, i'm a serving Garda (but not the one who pulled you, LOL)

The attitude test has a LOT to do with how a Garda deals with a situation. If you reacted to the Gardai in the same way as your post is written then you didnt do yourself any favours but I wasn't there so I won't comment anymore on that.

If you were speeding, then you were speeding. Take your points and get on with your life. The fine is €80 and 2 points. this rises to €120 if not paid within 28 days and after 56 days it goes to court.

Make sure you produce your insurance certificat and Licence to a garda station of your choice within TEN days (not ten working days as a lot of people think) and get a reciept from the member you deal with.Failure to produce is an offence and will lead to a whole load more trouble.

The offence that they were talking about is driving without reasonable consideration, Section 51a of the road traffic act 1961-2006. The penalty for this for a first offence is up to €1000 but i've never seen a fine that high given out for something like that. If the road had been busier, they may well have done you for dangerous driving.

Be more careful in the future and as others have said, the rules don't change with the time of year or personal circumstances.

Cabaal

Mark#1 wrote: »

I reckon I was hitting around 100, which is still technically speeding, so fair enough

Technically speeding?, it was speeding you've admitted yourself the area was 80km so 100km is speeding as a fact

But this was a completely empty straight stretch of A road - who wouldn't be doing 100kmh?

Not a very good defense, gardai don't care if the road had one or no cars your still speeding if your going over limit

Aparrently, I'm being sent out two fines: one for driving with undue care & attention (the overtake), one for speeding.

If you overtook on double white then they can get you for this, could you have not waited three seconds until the double white lines were completely finished?

I would hope that when you were talking to the Gardai you didn't use "my car is big and heavy and slow so takes ages to get to fast speeds" as a defense...I drive something that goes 0-60 in 15seconds but I can still do 120km/hour in it, as such I can still speed if I wanted to.

inforfun

IF you had to do 100 or 120 in order to take over a moped, i think the wrong guy was stopped by the Garda...

weeder

inforfun wrote: »

IF you had to do 100 or 120 in order to take over a moped, i think the wrong guy was stopped by the Garda...

Why, a derestricted 50cc moped is capable of 80kph, more if it has a big bore/exhaust/larger carburettor (All very common mods) it also could have been a 125cc scooter

Mark#1

Thanks for your replies, folks.

cloneslad wrote: »

The fact that you were speeding was probably why they pulled you on the undue care and attention charge. I'd imagine if you had have been doing under the limit they would have let it slide.

Considering a member of the gardai was killed by a wreckless driver over the weekend they are prob a bit touchy on the subject.

The moped was doing about 60kmh, which was why it was such torture to wait till the end of the double whites. Even during the overtake, I'd be surprised if I hit 80.

Neither Garda seemed incensed or enraged - both were perfectly polite & calm.

tossy wrote: »

I feel for you Mark,it sounds like a case where some common sense could have been applied in relation to the white line incident,as for speeding i have no sympathy with you on that one,i got caught doing 100 on an 80 stretch a few months ago,visibility for miles good road,but limits are there for a reason.I took my points and accepted i was in the wrong.

Sorry to hear about your personal circumstances esp in the run up to christmas,but those of us fallen on hard times are not exempt from the rules of the road

Hope you have a good christmas.

I'll be accepting my fines & points too. I guess I was really venting more than anything last night - it was still fresh.

Thanks for yor sentiments on my circumstances, but I didn't mean for a second to imply that I'm in a bad place and I deserve special treatment. I'm not the only guy out of work, and I'm still bound by existing laws.

NewApproach wrote: »

Family friend is a former guard, high in the motors division, and he told me once that the Garda handbook says that when overtaking, they should spend the minimum amount of time on the wrong side of the road, which obviously means going faster.
Did you slow back down to the speed limit after overtaking, or carry on at 100/120 whatever it was? Thats the important thing I reckon

If anything, I reckon I sped up after the overtake, but not to 120kmh.

high horse wrote: »

They said they had to do 125kmh to catch up with you? So what? Obviously they have to drive faster than you to catch up with you. Is this a point regularly made by gardai in this kind of situation?

On the speeding thing: you reckon you were hitting 100kmh in an 80 zone. Sounds like speeding to me...

Your name is quite apropriate, isn't it?

My own comment from my OP: "I reckon I was hitting around 100, which is still technically speeding, so fair enough."

IMO, their comment on them doing 125 to catch me was used to qualify their claim that I was doing 120. If they'd said they'd had to hit 105 to catch me at 100, I probably wouldn't have balked. The actual speed is academic, anyway - I was speeding.

Thanks for your input.

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Firstly, i'm a serving Garda (but not the one who pulled you, LOL)

The attitude test has a LOT to do with how a Garda deals with a situation. If you reacted to the Gardai in the same way as your post is written then you didnt do yourself any favours but I wasn't there so I won't comment anymore on that.

My manner during the incident was cordial and humble, but not grovelly - I have full respect for Garda, specially ones who are being as reasonable as these two guys were. I'd even go so far as to say that I suspect my manner took the edge off their own initial manner towards me - they'd started off quite firm and a little gruff, but within a minute or two of talking, they were talking much more softly & almost amicably.

CharlieCroker wrote: »

If you were speeding, then you were speeding. Take your points and get on with your life. The fine is €80 and 2 points. this rises to €120 if not paid within 28 days and after 56 days it goes to court.

Agreed. I got the impression that the "undue care & attention" comment was in relation to crossing the white lines, and that the speeding fine was separate - will I get two separate fines in the post & separate points connected with each fine? Who should I ask to find this out, rather than waiting it out?

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Make sure you produce your insurance certificat and Licence to a garda station of your choice within TEN days (not ten working days as a lot of people think) and get a reciept from the member you deal with.Failure to produce is an offence and will lead to a whole load more trouble.

The offence that they were talking about is driving without reasonable consideration, Section 51a of the road traffic act 1961-2006. The penalty for this for a first offence is up to €1000 but i've never seen a fine that high given out for something like that. If the road had been busier, they may well have done you for dangerous driving.[/I]

One of the Gardai actually said almost exactly the same thing, and I thiought that was reasonable.

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Be more careful in the future and as others have said, the rules don't change with the time of year or personal circumstances.

And nor should they, and nor do I expect them to.

Cabaal wrote: »

Technically speeding?, it was speeding you've admitted yourself the area was 80km so 100km is speeding as a fact

Not a very good defense, gardai don't care if the road had one or no cars your still speeding if your going over limit

If you overtook on double white then they can get you for this, could you have not waited three seconds until the double white lines were completely finished?

I would hope that when you were talking to the Gardai you didn't use "my car is big and heavy and slow so takes ages to get to fast speeds" as a defense...I drive something that goes 0-60 in 15seconds but I can still do 120km/hour in it, as such I can still speed if I wanted to.

Three seconds? I'd already been tailing the guy for maybe 10 seconds, and could have safely overtaken him with maybe 50m-80m of double whites still to go. In case anyone's perception of this is that I was in a hurry, I've already said that I was doing 60kmh behind this guy for a while, and my overtake was in no way erratic or speedy. Me & my passenger were enjoying yapping about our night and were far from in a hurry to get home.

Response to comment in bold itallics: The time between the overtake and being pulled over was maybe 2 minutes, and the entire stretch of road is all varying gradients of uphill. Academic as it is, I wasn't doing 120.

I didn't used any defence - I contested nothing. I knew I was speeding, and I accepted that part of my car could have crossed the double white line.


Thanks again for all your replies.

I'm off to the station this morning to present cert & licence, and will take my medicine when it comes.

Guess I won't be getting the Pearl Jam Ten anniversary box set for Crimbo now . . .


Mark

Mr. Presentable

Mark#1 wrote: »

I got stopped by the Garda tonight on my way home from a friend's house.

I had overtaken a moped just as a double continuous white line changed to a single dotted white line. I deliberately waited till the double whites ended, even though I had more than enough visibility to make the move long before the double whites ended.

Garda said I crossed the double white. I was genuinely surprised, but accepted that the back of my car could have crossed the double whites, so I asked was I over the double whites for long. He said it didn't matter - it was black & white: I was over the line and that's all that matters.

They also said I was doing 120kmh (in an 80 limit). They'd asked if I knew why they'd stopped me, and I said I was probably going a little fast. One chuckled and said 120. I drive a 90hp Alhambra. It weighs 2400kg. It takes half an hour an a lot of passanger hooshing to hit 120 on a flat motorway, let alone going up the hill they stopped me on... I reckon I was hitting around 100, which is still technically speeding, so fair enough. But this was a completely empty straight stretch of A road - who wouldn't be doing 100kmh? They said they "had to hit 125 to chase" me. Chase me . . .

The only other vehicle on the road, in front or behind, was that moped.

Aparrently, I'm being sent out two fines: one for driving with undue care & attention (the overtake), one for speeding.

How big a deal would it have been to just tell me to slow things down and send me on my way home. The double whites is a farce of a charge, and they exaggerated my speeding charge. They asked a million questions too - where was I coming from, where was I going, what had I been doing in the place that I was coming from, had I been drinking, where was I working - tons of questions.

TBH, there was something naiive in me that got me wondering if they'd let me go once they added a few bits of info about me together: I was made redundant earlier this year (so I'm broke), I drive a big family car (so it's likely I have kids), I'm coming home from doing something that I'm trying to do to better things for my family, it's Christmas, and the reasons for pulling me over were really a little thin.

I haven't bothered looking up the definitions of "undue", "care" & "attention" - I reckon I have a pretty good idea what they, and the phrase they collectively create, mean. But I wasn't driving with undue care & attention - I deliberately held off on my manouevre till the double whites ended, even though I could see for maybe 1 straight km that the road was completely clear. IMO, my driving would have been more accurately described as "driving with exceptional care, and consideration for an illogical road marking".

But they did say that because the road was pretty empty, they weren't going to bring me to court, so long as I produce my licence & insurance cert within 10 days, and pay the fines in good time.

So . . .

Is the speeding fine a fixed €80?

What's the fine for "undue care & attention"?

Will I get points on my licence?

Any point in appealing anything?


Rip Off Ireland? Alive & well & kicking a man when he's down . . . At christmas . . .


Thanks for any replies,

Mark

Mark, I highlight the only parts of your post that matter. And now even you should see there's nothing wrong with what the Garda has done.

In fact, given your attitude to road use "who wouldn't be doing 100kmh?" I think the Garda was more than fair.

All that other stuff about perceptions and Christmas and redundancy is smoke.

Victor_M

Can you be done for speeding without a some sort of speed detection device? If the guards decided to hit 140 in order to catch you would they have implied you were doing 140 and done you accordingly?

Sounds very harsh (if it happened exactly as you describe), were they directly behind you when you over took the moped, as that the only way they could see you over took the solid white line before it turned into a dashed line, unless you crossed the line way earlier than you think you did.

Either way no point making too big a deal as its a no win situation.

Alun

Regarding the double white line thing, was it one of those situations where you come over a bit of a rise, or around a bend onto an open straight stretch? In countries where they do road markings properly, they change the double whites into a dashed / solid combination giving the driver approaching the straight stretch the opportunity to overtake as soon as they have the chance, but preventing traffic coming in the other direction from overtaking too close to the bend / rise. Here, and especially on R roads, they seem to just keep the double / single white line making what would actually be a perfectly safe manoeuvre, technically illegal.

kingtut

OP sorry to hear you were pulled over, however as you admitted yourself you were speeding. Take the points and stick to the speed limit (and the other ROTR) in future

On another note - In some smaller areas the speed limit signs are tiny! Why can't they make all the road signs the same size?! Make them stand out!!!

inforfun

weeder wrote: »

Why, a derestricted 50cc moped is capable of 80kph, more if it has a big bore/exhaust/larger carburettor (All very common mods) it also could have been a 125cc scooter

I might be wrong because what the rules are for mopeds where i am from ( Holland)
But a moped to me is a 49,9 cc engine, not capable of going over 40 km/h.
Unless you fiddle with it. Anything aver 49,9 i consider a motorbike and requiers a drivers license (for motorbikes)

So, this could well be a case of "lost in translation" on my part.....

TheBazman

I for one think the situation is quite harsh. In fairness to the op he didn't say he wasn't exceeding the speed limit and he acknowedged that part of the car may have crossed the white line. He is also willing to take the punishment, so I think it is pointless highlighting part of his post restating that. I just feel that if I were a Garda and if the situation played out as the op said I would feel that in terms of seriousness this offence would be way down the scale. There are far more serious offences including motoring offences that are happening every minute of every day. I would feel that I would get better job satisfaction pulling over some other offence rather than that described by the op.

kingtut

TheBazman wrote: »

There are far more serious offences including motoring offences that are happening every minute of every day.

Such as? I would have thought speeding would have been one of the two most serious, the other being breaking a red light.

TheBazman

kingtut wrote: »

Such as? I would have thought speeding would have been one of the two most serious, the other being breaking a red light.

Are you saying all speeding is the same so 100kph in an 80 limit is the same as 150kph? As I said I don't feel that the situation as described by the op is one of the most serious motoring offences, albeit I do acknowledge as does the op that it is an offence

kingtut

TheBazman wrote: »

Are you saying all speeding is the same so 100kph in an 80 limit is the same as 150kph?

No I never said all speeding was the same. It is still counted speeding regardless of how over the limit you are (yes I guess there is speeding and 'excessive speeding') however I use the general term speeding.

What offences in your opinion are worse than speeding?

ShadowHearth

tossy wrote: »

I feel for you Mark,it sounds like a case where some common sense could have been applied in relation to the white line incident,as for speeding i have no sympathy with you on that one,i got caught doing 100 on an 80 stretch a few months ago,visibility for miles good road,but limits are there for a reason.I took my points and accepted i was in the wrong.

Sorry to hear about your personal circumstances esp in the run up to christmas,but those of us fallen on hard times are not exempt from the rules of the road

Hope you have a good christmas.

speed limits are there for the reason? why there is 100km/h speed limit on alot of backroads. A barely able to do 90km/h driving a sports car with suspention set up for that! And then there are motorway like roads ( limeric to galway) which have 100km/h limit!!!

OP has mine sympahy, specially when there is no way he could done 120km/h....

As for double white line crossing... Garda were just having a bad day. In mine experience, they ussually sound in such situation were comon sence is involved...

speeding fine is 80eu bud, dont know about double line cross bud...

TheNog

TheBazman wrote: »

I for one think the situation is quite harsh. In fairness to the op he didn't say he wasn't exceeding the speed limit and he acknowedged that part of the car may have crossed the white line. He is also willing to take the punishment, so I think it is pointless highlighting part of his post restating that. I just feel that if I were a Garda and if the situation played out as the op said I would feel that in terms of seriousness this offence would be way down the scale. There are far more serious offences including motoring offences that are happening every minute of every day. I would feel that I would get better job satisfaction pulling over some other offence rather than that described by the op.

Issuing a fixed penalty for speeding is the most lenient method so I dont think it was harsh at all. As the Garda said, if there was more traffic on the round the OP could have faced going to court.

TheBazman

kingtut wrote: »

No I never said all speeding was the same. It is still counted speeding regardless of how over the limit you are (yes I guess there is speeding and 'excessive speeding') however I use the general term speeding.

What offences in your opinion are worse than speeding?

You can ask the question as many times as you like but you are missing my point. I am saying that within the umbrella of "speeding" there are differences. I don't feel that the offence of speeding as descibed by the op is the same as the offence of speeding in other situations eg doing 150kph in an 80 zone

TheBazman

TheNog wrote: »

Issuing a fixed penalty for speeding is the most lenient method so I dont think it was harsh at all. As the Garda said, if there was more traffic on the round the OP could have faced going to court.

I'm commenting on the situation as described. There was no other traffic around. Also yes a fixed penalty is the most lenient form of punishment when the Guards actually stop you for the offence. Again my point is that if I were a Garda I think my time would be better spent stopping offenders in other more serious situations

TheNog

TheBazman wrote: »

I'm commenting on the situation as described. There was no other traffic around. Also yes a fixed penalty is the most lenient form of punishment when the Guards actually stop you for the offence. Again my point is that if I were a Garda I think my time would be better spend stopping offenders in other more serious situations

But as the OP describes the road markings we know the road is partly governed by double white lines which usually indicates a junction on a busy or major road and then onto a single white line. This indicates there is still a danger to overtaking such as approaching a bend or school or something else.

As for time being better spent stopping more serious offenders, are you saying Gardai should ignore the minor ones?

Seth Brundle

TheNog wrote: »

As for time being better spent stopping more serious offenders, are you saying Gardai should ignore the minor ones?

Would you be so kind? Or at the least, ignore my many many minor infringements!

TheBazman

On you last point I presume that is rhetorical. Of course not in a perfect world, unfortunately we are in a world of limited resources particularly when it comes to law enforcement and I would like the priority to be given to more serious offences. Does that not make sense?



On your first point, the op describes a situation whereby only part of the car crosses the solid white line. So while technically an offence I would say it is less serious that say a situation whereby the whole car crosses it. Again I think that is a fair assumption.

Anyway my fingers are giving up typing on the iPhone so I need a break.

Alun

TheNog wrote: »

But as the OP describes the road markings we know the road is partly governed by double white lines which usually indicates a junction on a busy or major road and then onto a single white line. This indicates there is still a danger to overtaking such as approaching a bend or school or something else.

Sometimes, but not always. Often it's the unnecessary continuance of solid white lines past the obstruction (bend, rise/dip in road), where a combination solid / dashed line would be much more appropriate. From what I can gather from the OP's post, this was the case in this incident.

TheNog

kbannon wrote: »

Would you kind? Or at the least, ignore my many many minor infringements!

Many, many?? No way, man:D

TheBazman wrote: »

On you last point I presume that is rhetorical. Of course not in a perfect world, unfortunately we are in a world of limited resources particularly when it comes to law enforcement and I would like the priority to be given to more serious offences. Does that not make sense?



On your first point, the op describes a situation whereby only part of the car crosses the solid white line. So while technically an offence I would say it is less serious that say a situation whereby the whole car crosses it. Again I think that is a fair assumption.

Anyway my fingers are giving up typing on the iPhone so I need a break.

But the more serious offences dont happen everywhere so the chance of actually seeing one is very slim tbh.

If the OP's rear tyre had crossed the end of the double white lines which then lead onto a broken line then yes I would say let that slide. Unfortunately the double white lines ended and a single continuous white line began.

Anyway it doesnt really matter tbh because the OP can only be issued with one fixed penalty fine per incident.

/edit: I just re-read the OPs post. I got it wrong thinking the double line went into a single continuous

3DataModem

ShadowHearth wrote: »

why there is 100km/h speed limit on alot of backroads

Usually to allow for visibility on upcoming junctions.

Seth Brundle

ShadowHearth wrote: »

why there is 100km/h speed limit on alot of backroads.

Most back roads are 80km/h!

tommmy1979

I have a good rule of thumb... "Only break one ROTR at a time" it keeps me out of trouble;). Example: If you're going to be speeding then don't do it while overtaking "illegally". If you're driving around with an out of date tax or nct disc then keep your nose clean and you'll be fine.. etc etc

cpoh1

Mark, did they show you a reading from the gun they caught you speeding with? If they didnt then they cant possibly estimate what exact speed you were doing and telling you they had to do XXXkph to catch you is meaningless.

Get in touch with your solicitor when the fines come through for some proper advice, you'll mostly get nonsense from people on the internet. Fact is its up to the garda to prove the exact speed you were doing and that you were in fact driving without due care and attention. Breaking a continuos white line would be the offense they should have done you for and my arguement to the judge on the day would be why the prosecution for driving without due care and attention when there is a specific charge for crossing a continuos white line? Anyway dont worry too much about it, the speeding wont stick without factual evidance from the prosecution in the form of gun reading , or a specific amount of time tailgating in a car with a calibrated speed - neither of which was the case.

Hooch

cpoh1 wrote: »

Mark, did they show you a reading from the gun they caught you speeding with? If they didnt then they cant possibly estimate what exact speed you were doing and telling you they had to do XXXkph to catch you is meaningless.

Get in touch with your solicitor when the fines come through for some proper advice, you'll mostly get nonsense from people on the internet. Fact is its up to the garda to prove the exact speed you were doing and that you were in fact driving without due care and attention. Breaking a continuos white line would be the offense they should have done you for and my arguement to the judge on the day would be why the prosecution for driving without due care and attention when there is a specific charge for crossing a continuos white line? Anyway dont worry too much about it, the speeding wont stick without factual evidance from the prosecution in the form of gun reading , or a specific amount of time tailgating in a car with a calibrated speed - neither of which was the case.

How do you know the vehicle wasnt a calibrated vehicle......with a camera or ANPR fitted?? Just because the Garda didnt say it doesnt mean it could be. I dont often say that the vehicle is camera fitted. Just wait for the court day and set up the audio/visual equipment.......

kingtut

TheBazman wrote: »

You can ask the question as many times as you like but you are missing my point. I am saying that within the umbrella of "speeding" there are differences. I don't feel that the offence of speeding as descibed by the op is the same as the offence of speeding in other situations eg doing 150kph in an 80 zone

I understand your point perfectly. You are saying that he only did a few km over the speed limit which is not the same as doing say 70km over the speed limit, I get that, it makes perfect sense. Yes there are differences (speeding and 'excessive' speeding, the OPs speed in this case was not being the excessive type) however he is still getting a speeding fine, how much over the limit he was is not going to affect this.

No matter the speed it is still a serious offence.

TheBazman wrote: »

There are far more serious offences including motoring offences that are happening every minute of every day.

Can you please tell me what offences are more serious than speeding in your opinion?...All I can think of is breaking a red light which as I said before is just as bad as speeding (regardless of by how much) in my opinion.

stealthyspeeder

nice guy always wrote: »

How do you know the vehicle wasnt a calibrated vehicle......with a camera or ANPR fitted?? Just because the Garda didnt say it doesnt mean it could be. I dont often say that the vehicle is camera fitted. Just wait for the court day and set up the audio/visual equipment.......

If the guarda car was calibrated and had a camera, it would have to be travelling at the same speed as the offending car for a certain (possibly very small) amount of time, the OP said the guards caught up with him and pulled him over. the speed they were going would be the calibrated speed shown. This would be dependant on how far away they were when they started to chase the OP and would not be a accurate measurement of the OP's speed unless they tailed him keeping the distance between them constant..

ANPR, would not have any bearing on the detection of speed?

kingtut wrote: »

Can you please tell me what offences are more serious than speeding in your opinion?...All I can think of is breaking a red light which as I said before is just as bad as speeding (regardless of by how much) in my opinion.

Im not the person you asked this of, but....

Drink driving
Light jumping (breaking read lights which you mentioned)
driving without lights at night
illegal road manouves such as overtaking on a blind bend
dangerous driving such as people acting the maggot (burnouts handbrake turns etc)

To name a few!

TheBazman

Driving under the influence of drugs
driving the wrong way up a dual carriageway
kids without seatbelts
etc

but again you are missing my point kingtut.

ShadowHearth

kbannon wrote: »

Most back roads are 80km/h!

i dare you, try to do 100km/h ( which is that much i can go there be law) in Mallow - Fermoy road.

If you can do it, then i bet you went sideways not just 10 times in that run...

ShadowHearth

3DataModem wrote: »

Usually to allow for visibility on upcoming junctions.

lol?

Hooch

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i dare you, try to do 100km/h ( which is that much i can go there be law) in Mallow - Fermoy road.

If you can do it, then i bet you went sideways not just 10 times in that run...

The RSA consider one of the top ten more dangerous roads it seems.

ShadowHearth

nice guy always wrote: »

The RSA consider one of the top ten more dangerous roads it seems.

So am i just lucky to live in belly of snake roads capital?

CharlieCroker

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i dare you, try to do 100km/h ( which is that much i can go there be law) in Mallow - Fermoy road.

If you can do it, then i bet you went sideways not just 10 times in that run...

ironically, i did go sideways on that road once, in a toyota avensis. Scared the crap out of me!!!
Horrible road!!!


OP, wait til you get the FCPS notice in the post and see where you stand

Greenman

kingtut wrote: »

On another note - In some smaller areas the speed limit signs are tiny! Why can't they make all the road signs the same size?! Make them stand out!!!

I really don't understand the logic of the traffic dept on this one, you can't have enough speed limit signs.

kingtut

TheBazman wrote: »

Driving under the influence of drugs
driving the wrong way up a dual carriageway
kids without seatbelts
etc

but again you are missing my point kingtut.

I would consider them to be just as dangerous as speeding. (all liable to result in death / serious injury) I thought I understand your point perfectly but I guess not, would you mind telling me what it is one more time for the idiot version of kingtut that is typing tonight :pac:

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Im not the person you asked this of, but....

Drink driving
Light jumping (breaking read lights which you mentioned)
driving without lights at night
illegal road manouves such as overtaking on a blind bend
dangerous driving such as people acting the maggot (burnouts handbrake turns etc)

To name a few!

I would consider them to be just as dangerous as speeding. (all liable to result in death / serious injury)

corktina

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i dare you, try to do 100km/h ( which is that much i can go there be law) in Mallow - Fermoy road.

If you can do it, then i bet you went sideways not just 10 times in that run...

easy peasy...and I know the two short cuts too.... i suggest you opump up your back tyres if you are going sideways that much

corktina

my take on the situation is that the OP PROBABLY squeezed past the moped, cutting the white line a little and broke the speed limit slightly.To the gards it may have appeared he didnt give the moped enough room, he is after all entitled to half the road.

ytareh

Sincere symptahy sounds like you were rightly 'done' ,ignore the usual 'holier than thou' sorts...If youre REALLY lucky you might get away with JUST the speeding 'ticket'...Here's hoping .

mcguiver

I think you should go to court, tell the judge you were speeding and stamp your feet a lot. You'll double your points, get a decent fine, and give the court room a good laugh.

How come vast majority of road users wont obey the basic rules, get away with it 99% of the time, get warnings from Gardai, and then the once every few years when they get a ticket it's everyone elses fault and the end of the world.

Any other juristiction fines/tickets regular occurance. The driving here is terrible. I've seen to many casualties and too many devastated families following the loss of a loved one. The time for lectures and warnings is over, points and bans !!!

ShadowHearth

corktina wrote: »

easy peasy...and I know the two short cuts too.... i suggest you opump up your back tyres if you are going sideways that much

i am not the only one... and yeah... you do go 100km/h on that road? I would actually love to see it. And "sideways" was figurative speech in beggining.

Dartz

Sorry you got caught OP... I've done the exact same thing a few times myself. Unfortunately, best thing to do is just take it... there's not much that can be done to fight it like that.

Although, I think you should've played This when you got pulled over OP.

It's either that or try "These aren't the droids your looking for, Garda,"....

Who knows, maybe you'll get lucky and find one with a sense of humour. Make him laugh, he might just let you go.

Mark#1

mcguiver wrote: »

How come vast majority of road users wont obey the basic rules, get away with it 99% of the time, get warnings from Gardai, and then the once every few years when they get a ticket it's everyone elses fault and the end of the world.

And you're not one of "vast majority"? Never drift over the speed limit? Never cross a continuous white line? Hmmm...

End of the world? €80 is hardly the end of the world, even for someone on welfare. And can you point me to where I said my situation was anyone else's (let alone everyone else's) fault?

Get a ticket once every few years? This is my first since I started driving. In 1991.

mcguiver wrote: »

Any other juristiction fines/tickets regular occurance.

I had to read this a few times, but I think I have it right - you mean that in any other jurisdiction, fines/tickets are a more regular occurence than in our jurisdiction? If that's it, so what? Should we be chopping off the hands of shoplifters?

mcguiver wrote: »

The driving here is terrible. I've seen to many casualties and too many devastated families following the loss of a loved one. The time for lectures and warnings is over, points and bans !!!

I agree with your comments in bold italics. Witness the traffic news every day - congestion & delays because of another twat.

Do you really think that points and bans should apply to the driving I was pulled over for?

What's worse than speeding? Some definitions are needed there before I could personally offer an opinion:

There's speeding in the context of the written law: An alert, rested driver doing 80-100kmh in an 80kmh zone on an empty A road, in dry, calm conditions, in a well-serviced car he's owned for 100,000 miles is speeding. Sound familiar, anyone?

There's irresponsible, dangerous speeding: An upset teenager who's just been dumped by his girlfriend doing 180kmh on a busy 80kmh dual carriageway, in wet & blustery conditions, in his dad's 2 day-old Z350 is also speeding.

There's downright reckless, kamikazi speeding: A boyo in a poorly-maintained, but noisy & bodywork-pimped Glanza doing 200kmh in a 50kmh zone residential area, in I]insert your choice of conditions here[/I, to show off to some pyjama-bottomed teenage girls is speeding. I hear these gimps most nights on a road near my house. I see the burnout & skid marks on local roads pretty often.

There are plenty in between, I'm sure y'all will agree?

Driving drunk or drugged, within the speed limit, on the correct side of a continuous white line is worse than speeding.

Driving in a poorly maintained/damaged car, within the speed limit, on the correct side of a continuous white line is worse than speeding.

Driving on the wrong side of a continuous white line on a blind bend/crest of a hill, within the speed limit, is worse than speeding. I've seen it in real life.

Driving a Micra to the local school, with 5 unbelted kids (one more than the car could accommodate anyway), within the speed limit, on the correct side of a continuous white line is worse than speeding. I personally observe this one every morning.

There are so many other examples I could cite as being, IMO, worse than "speeding".

Personally, I don't need a continuous white line to tell me that I shouldn't be on the other side of the road on a blind road/crest of a hill, or a number on a sign to tell me what speed is safe on a road I'm familiar with - I already know. I'm guessing that a lot of other drivers do too.

The white line doesn't stop the fools, it makes it easier to charge them for breaking the law. Maybe they'll stop after being caught, maybe not.

I know I was really aware of my speed on the couple of trips I made today.

The title of my OP is still kinda pertinent - I wasn't doing the speed they said I was doing and I barely touched the double whites. I accept that I technically broke the ROTR (and ergo the law), though I don't accept that I did anything morally wrong.

As a couple of slight digressions, me & my wife actually saw a taxi do exactly the same overtake at exactly the same spot on the road this evening, though the speeds were higher - following the taxi before his overtake, I was doing 80 in the 80 zone. He had to be hitting over 80 already, clipped the end of the double whites (as must do a great many cars, judging by the wear on the end of the lines - a lot darker & dirtier for maybe the last 5m or so), and was on the wrong side of the road.

We also saw today, a car travel 405-degrees around a busy 2-lane roundabout (one full lap, then exiting what would have been their first exit, had they not done the lap) with absolutely no indication entering the roundabout, while on it, nor exiting it. Hey - we all make mistakes and miss our exit, but good indication on a roundabout is a bit important, IMO.

I got caught speeding. IMO, the Gardai that stopped me were gracious and reasonable, even though I know they're wrong about my actual speed. I broke the legal law and after considering my position and discussing the situation with the 3 Fs (Family, Friends & Forum), I'll accept my due and pay my fine(s). I'm not going to appeal anything and I don't want to go to court.


Thanks again for yor replies,

Mark