Liverpool v Wigan [Match Thread] Nando's 100th

D2D

FT: Still playing awful at the mo but 3 points is something that we desperatly needed and could start us on a good run. Pompey away on Saturday at 12.45. See ye then

Sir Gallagher

Another poor performance, the defending for Wigans goal was a joke, a win is a win though.

mayordenis

Jazzy wrote: »

thank god. what the hell is it with these complete lapses in concentration?

our defence as a whole has done this in the last 10 minutes of every game this season, its madness.

magma69

Not a very encouraging performance. Crisis is not over by any means but 3 points is still 3 points. I hope the players recognise that they were still fairly ****e tonight and they should be beating teams of Wigan's calibre with much more ease.

On a more positive note N'Gog played great game. Couldn't have asked for much more considering the delivery he was receiving. El Nino looks to be back in business once more. Happy days

evil_seed

- What a complete **** of a game.
- Jamie Carragher Rightback > Jamie Carragher Centreback
- Thank all the gods and **** for Torres
- Aquilani will be good
- Kuyt needs a rest
- Gerrard needs to be dropped so that he can cop the **** on. disgraceful performance from him tonite, as highlighted by that woeful kickout freekick near the end.
- Queue another "the season starts now" from Rafa.

I'm getting more and more convinced by these sub par performances that Rafa has lost the dressing room, and that they can't wait for the season to be over.

noodler

evil_seed wrote: »

- What a complete **** of a game.
- Jamie Carragher Rightback > Jamie Carragher Centreback
- Thank all the gods and **** for Torres
- Aquilani will be good
- Kuyt needs a rest
- Gerrard needs to be dropped so that he can cop the **** on. disgraceful performance from him tonite, as highlighted by that woeful kickout freekick near the end.
- Queue another "the season starts now" from Rafa.

I'm getting more and more convinced by these sub par performances that Rafa has lost the dressing room, and that they can't wait for the season to be over.

Was Carra good at RB then?

Spiritoftheseventies

And see aqualani got only ten minutes. You have to wonder.

smoochie06

Didnt see the match but what is the story with the late goal. The team need to concentrate for the full 90. We need to push on now and beat Portsmouth at the weekend.

Sir Gallagher

evil_seed wrote: »

- What a complete **** of a game.
- Jamie Carragher Rightback > Jamie Carragher Centreback
- Thank all the gods and **** for Torres
- Aquilani will be good
- Kuyt needs a rest
- Gerrard needs to be dropped so that he can cop the **** on. disgraceful performance from him tonite, as highlighted by that woeful kickout freekick near the end.
- Queue another "the season starts now" from Rafa.

I'm getting more and more convinced by these sub par performances that Rafa has lost the dressing room, and that they can't wait for the season to be over.

Good shout........NOT!!!(Borat voice)

magma69

I think Gerrard didn't quite recover from that knock he took in the first half. He looked lively up to that point when Liverpool were dominating and passing the ball really well.

mike65

Gerrard is pish poor, he is a total tit when it comes to motivation. He can't seem to generate any of his own when things are not humming nicely. Trouble is if you took him off he's resent it if you don't start him he resents it, if he was stripped of the captaincy he's be pissed off. He can be like a big kid at times.

Gerrard may be not be firing on all cylinders but dropping him is a ridiculous suggestion.

He'll come good sooner rather than later.

Pompy away sat morning then Wolves at home Stephens day.

6/6 please Santa :pac:

Sir Gallagher

On a positive not it looks like Masch has finally got back to top form, oh and good performance by N'Gog again tonight and yet some critics still aren't silenced.

noodler

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard may be not be firing on all cylinders but dropping him is a ridiculous suggestion.

He'll come good sooner rather than later.

Pompy away sat morning then Wolves at home Stephens day.

6/6 please Santa :pac:

Its not just dropping him for form though, it is attitude.

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Gerrard is pish poor, he is a total tit when it comes to motivation. He can't seem to generate any of his own when things are not humming nicely. Trouble is if you took him off he's resent it if you don't start him he resents it, if he was stripped of the captaincy he's be pissed off. He can be like a big kid at times.

Sorry Mike but that's complete bóllocks.

And strip him of the captaincy for not having a few great games? :eek:

Gerrard's standard is so high, that when he has a few iffy games people say he's past it, he doesn't care etc etc.

How about some of our other players that haven't chipped in much?

monkey9

Terrible performance tonight. Very pedestrian, but the main thing is the three points. We needed a win at all costs. Hopefully we can get a few more on the trot and build up our confidence, although Pompey will be tough on Saturday (Live on Sky, 12:45pm)

It's amazing the fine lines though. At one nil, Jason Scotland missed an absolute sitter, on a par with Benitez last night. If that goes in, it would probably have finished one all or even Wigan may have sneaked it which would have been a disaster. Then two minutes later, el letrado goes up the other end and makes it two.

Special mention for Ngog. Put in a superb performance and got a goal to cap it all off. He's turning out to be a great purchase for only a million. He could turn out to be an absolute bargain. Early days for him, but high hopes all the same

noodler

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sorry Mike but that's complete bóllocks.

And strip him of the captaincy for not having a few great games? :eek:

Gerrard's standard is so high, that when he has a few iffy games people say he's past it, he doesn't care etc etc.

How about some of our other players that haven't chipped in much?

Attitude.

Podge2k7

Happy with the 3 points.

Agger should of scored.

We need to cop the fcuk towards the end of games, its getting ridiculous.

Hopefully we can beat Pompey and Wolves , have 3 wins in a row and restore some confidence,

mike65

Gerrard's standard is so high, that when he has a few iffy games people say he's past it, he doesn't care etc etc.

How about some of our other players that haven't chipped in much?

Others should have but its been tricky, Yossi hasn't hidden (best player of the season), Babel is babel (!), Lucas is improving with every game (honest), Kuyt is tired, Torres is crook, Masch has been up and down alright but is coming back to form, obviously the great God and Liverpool saviour Alberto Aquilani is not position to be a leader on the pitch, NGog is looking after himself as he ploughs an often lonely furrow. Its Mr G who needs to step up to the plate - play true role of the captain not just be the captain.

I should point out I've always thought this about him - Mark Hughes was a captain, Roy Keane was a captain, Gerrard shruggs....

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

Others should have but its been tricky, Yossi hasn't hidden (best player of the season), Babel is babel (!), Lucas is improving with every game (honest), Kuyt is tired, Torres is crook, Masch has been up and down alright but is coming back to form, obviously the great God and Liverpool saviour Alberto Aquilani is not position to be a leader on the pitch, NGog is looking after himself as he ploughs an often lonely furrow. Its Mr G who needs to step up to the plate - play true role of the captain not just be the captain.

I should point out I've always thought this about him - Mark Hughes was a captain, Roy Keane was a captain, Gerrard shruggs....

Spot on. A leader in name only.

mink_man

kuyt tired? not even half way through the season...EXCUSE!

mink_man

Kess73 wrote: »

Spot on. A leader in name only.

his nams isn't meader, you make no sense

whatawaster

you people need to get a f*cking grip.

personally i'm happier with a leader who constantly performs when he's most needed, has scored some of the best and most important goals in the clubs history at some of the most important times.

Yes he's playing crap, but he'll come good. dropping him would be lunacy

Mars Bar

whatawaster wrote: »

you people need to get a f*cking grip.

personally i'm happier with a leader who constantly performs when he's most needed, has scored some of the best and most important goals in the clubs history at some of the most important times.

Yes he's playing crap, but he'll come good. dropping him would be lunacy

Unlucky for you, lunacy is one of Rafa's strong points...

whatawaster

mars bar wrote: »

Unlucky for you, lunacy is one of Rafa's strong points...

yep. he's an idiot

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

you people need to get a f*cking grip.

personally i'm happier with a leader who constantly performs when he's most needed, has scored some of the best and most important goals in the clubs history at some of the most important times.

Yes he's playing crap, but he'll come good. dropping him would be lunacy

Well this season a player who performs when he is most needed is something we have badly needed for the last four months.

There is a pretty good replacement already at the club if he were to be dropped/rested for a couple of games. Yossi is perfect for that role behind Torres and is generally at his most effective there.

whatawaster

Kess73 wrote: »

Well this season a player who performs when he is most needed is something we have badly needed for the last four months.

There is a pretty good replacement already at the club if he were to be dropped/rested for a couple of games. Yossi is perfect for that role behind Torres and is generally at his most effective there.

to be fair he's been injured quite a bit this season.
A struggling Gerrard is still one of our most dangerous players

Sir Gallagher

Kess73 wrote: »

Well this season a player who performs when he is most needed is something we have badly needed for the last four months.

There is a pretty good replacement already at the club if he were to be dropped/rested for a couple of games. Yossi is perfect for that role behind Torres and is generally at his most effective there.

Yes oets drop one of our best players and replace him with someone who already has a place in the first team.. Great idea.

Oh ajd on the subject of Yossi he could have scored a header tonight from a lovely ball from Fabio but bottled it, nobody calling for him to be dropped i've noticed.

Rafa's been making enough strange decisions lately and people want him to drop Gerrard?.. Bizarre to say the least.

Kess73

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Yes oets drop one of our best players and replace him with someone who already has a place in the first team.. Great idea.

Oh ajd on the subject of Yossi he could have scored a header tonight from a lovely ball from Fabio but bottled it, nobody calling for him to be dropped i've noticed.

Rafa's been making enough strange decisions lately and people want him to drop Gerrard?.. Bizarre to say the least.

Yeah Yossi gets in the team. One match he is on the right, another match he is on the left, then in anaother game he may get to play behind the striker. Basically he is a utility player at the moment.

He has always looked at his best playing just behind the striker, and he would be perfect cover to replace Gerrard if Gerrard was to be rested. It is hardly rocket science to suggest playing Yossi in his best position as cover for Gerrard.

The logic that is being used here tonight is that Gerrard is playing crap for a prolonged period so just let him stay on the pitch. Dropping Gerrard at the moment would not be dropping one of our best players as on the form he has shown over the last four months, he has been nowhere near being one of our best players this season.

Lucas is lucky that he has not played as badly as Gerrard of late otherwise he would have been crucified on here.

evil_seed

whatawaster wrote: »

you people need to get a f*cking grip.

personally i'm happier with a leader who constantly performs when he's most needed, has scored some of the best and most important goals in the clubs history at some of the most important times.

Yes he's playing crap, but he'll come good. dropping him would be lunacy

not doing it this season

Jazzy

mars bar wrote: »

Unlucky for you, lunacy is one of Rafa's strong points...

i dont get it.

great to get 3 points today. once again we were looking sloppy when we didnt need to be and there is constant mis-queing of passes and lapses in positioning. aquilani we couldnt judge on today as he had no time to show us anything. i want to see him get 90 mins in the PL please rafa

kingshankly

Crazy some of the criticism gerrard is getting. The man has rescued this club so many times carried the team for the best part of 10 years won the likes of Harry kewel and Jimi traore champion league medals.
Sure he's not in the form of his life but a terrible gerrard is better than an average performance from others.
Form is temporary class is permanent

Dickerty

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

good performance by N'Gog again tonight and yet some critics still aren't silenced.

I don't see any critics of Ngog apart from the dive. He has been a revelation, we got a cheap gem there. He showed in two great assists to Kuyt that he and Torres would make a great partnership, he is really quiet similar - chases lost causes, runs well between FB and CB, gives every ounce every time, holds the ball really well. They are our front two of the future IMO.

daveyboy_1ie

kingshankly wrote: »

Crazy some of the criticism gerrard is getting. The man has rescued this club so many times carried the team for the best part of 10 years won the likes of Harry kewel and Jimi traore champion league medals.
Sure he's not in the form of his life but a terrible gerrard is better than an average performance from others.
Form is temporary class is permanent

I agree with you, and I am a United supporter. The man is a legend and for so long has pulled the club back from defeats, inspiring them to win. What has to be remembered is that type of midfielder (the all action one ala Keane) cannot play that way forever and has to be a little wiser in runs and tackles to prolong his career. Gerrard will be 30 at the start of next season so he knows he has 3/4 years left at this level so he wants to make sure they are as injury free as possible. Give the man a break, he deserves one.

I am not saying he has changed his style, just that in games ike last night were he does not have to be the hero and 'pool were cruising from 10 mins on, he was wiser in his play, not chasing and tackling everything in sight like he would have done 5 seasons ago.

Kingdom

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah Yossi gets in the team. One match he is on the right, another match he is on the left, then in anaother game he may get to play behind the striker. Basically he is a utility player at the moment.

He has always looked at his best playing just behind the striker, and he would be perfect cover to replace Gerrard if Gerrard was to be rested. It is hardly rocket science to suggest playing Yossi in his best position as cover for Gerrard.

The logic that is being used here tonight is that Gerrard is playing crap for a prolonged period so just let him stay on the pitch. Dropping Gerrard at the moment would not be dropping one of our best players as on the form he has shown over the last four months, he has been nowhere near being one of our best players this season.

Lucas is lucky that he has not played as badly as Gerrard of late otherwise he would have been crucified on here.

Thats on the money for me. Well put

MementoMori

So three points which was exactly what we needed.

The performance was a bit nervy and perhaps we rode out luck a bit but I don't think anyone can say we didn't deserve the win. The late goal when the game was almost over was another gut punch, but at least it didn't lead to any dropped points, which was a relief. If the finishing had been a tad sharper, we could have easily scored three or four.

N'gog had a great game and continued to add to his goal tally.
I thought Kuyt had a decent game as well, probably one of his best of the season and was unlucky not to get on the score.
Masch was immense I thought and really put in a great shift in terms of keeping the Wigan midfield quiet.
Benayoun did ok in patches but I don't think he's still fully fit.
Aurelio did grand and the quality of the ball into the box was well tasty but I'm just not a big fan of both himself and Insua on the pitch together.
Insua really seemed to benefit from his rest against Arsenal and I thought he had a good game (aside from the goal).
I never feel confident when we have Carra, Agger and Skrtel on the pitch together as I always feel uneasy about their positioning. Having said that just love seeing Agger pushing forward out of the defence with the ball which is always a great sight.
Gerrard's poorish form continued but I definately wouldn't advocate dropping him. Hopeful his performances will pick up.
Torres is Torres and he is a god among men. Given he was on the bench tonight, I'd be hopeful of him starting the next game.
Lucas did fine when he came on without doing anything too notable.
Aquilani was not on long-enough to judge more than superfically.
While it can be a frustrating not seeing more of him, given his injury history I'm willing to trust Rafa in terms of easing him back into action.
Pepe looked good.

Also interesting to note that Darby was on the bench ahead of Degen, which might give fresh insight into the RB pecking order.

Johnson, Riera, Babel, El Zhar and Kelly were all missing from consideration from last night's squad, so fingers crossed once we have some of them back we will have some actual competition in terms of better wide options.

gucci

Kess73 wrote: »

Lucas is lucky that he has not played as badly as Gerrard of late otherwise he would have been crucified on here.

And the fact that Lucas isn't playing badly is probably helping Lucas too?

Have been impressed by Mascheranos application the last few weeks, he is really getting stuck in in games and making things happen, and also showing that he is willing to take on more responsibility with the ball too. His injury and subsequent struggling for 20 -25 mins on Sunday and then having to go off was a massive factor in losing the game Vs Arsenal.

Oh and Agger....come on man! Bring on the goals!! he has been very close in the last 2 or 3 games!

MementoMori

gucci wrote: »

His injury and subsequent struggling for 20 -25 mins on Sunday and then having to go off was a massive factor in losing the game Vs Arsenal.

Yup would agree with this a fair bit, really missed his workrate and application after he picked up the knock.

NabyLadistheman

A win is a win is a win. Another one on Saturday & the tide will beginning to turn. We can beat Wolves on Stephen's day & we can go to the Villa on the 29th with some confidence. That's the plan anyway!

Sure it's not going to be easy as we're not playing particulary well at the minute with confidence at an all time low but that can only change. Good to see Gerrard being moved back for a game or 2. We're extremely laboured in that department and his driving force will push us on. Once we get a bit of confidence back stick him back up beside Torres.

Great to see Ngog progress. 6 in 8 is pretty impressive all things considered. Im sure alot of people will not be happy with the performance last night but it is a stepping stone in the right direction and 3 points being the most important thing :-)

Dont be at yourself

MementoMori wrote: »

N'gog had a great game and continued to add to his goal tally.

He's done really well in deputising for Torres. His record is pretty good, considering his age, experience and the team's current form. Looks to be worth the 2 million or so that we paid for him, anyway!

I thought Kuyt had a decent game as well, probably one of his best of the season and was unlucky not to get on the score.

I didn't see the Wigan game, but I thought he played well against Arsenal too. Hopefully he's returning to his best now.

Gerrard's poorish form continued but I definately wouldn't advocate dropping him. Hopeful his performances will pick up.

I wonder is he still feeling the effects of his groin injury? I wouldn't mind resting him for a game or two over the Christmas, bringing in Aquilani. It's great that Lucas, Gerrard and Aquilani can all cover each other if needed!

Also interesting to note that Darby was on the bench ahead of Degen, which might give fresh insight into the RB pecking order.

And yet Degen came on for Johnson the other day. I'm not sure if there is a clear preference at this stage.

Kess73

gucci wrote: »

And the fact that Lucas isn't playing badly is probably helping Lucas too?
Have been impressed by Mascheranos application the last few weeks, he is really getting stuck in in games and making things happen, and also showing that he is willing to take on more responsibility with the ball too. His injury and subsequent struggling for 20 -25 mins on Sunday and then having to go off was a massive factor in losing the game Vs Arsenal.

Oh and Agger....come on man! Bring on the goals!! he has been very close in the last 2 or 3 games!

Let's see how much tolerence there is here for Lucas when he plays one bad game. I am not the biggest fan of Lucas and think he is not good enough to be a first teamer, but I respect the effort the lad makes and the way he does not hide on the pitch.

But if he plays ten games, and does fine in nine and then plays poor in the tenth, there is a wave of over the top criticism towards him.

Yet when Gerrard has been very poor for the guts of four months, often looking totally disinterested in the game and doing that shoulder shrug of his throughout games, it is seen as wrong to criticize his form and suggest that a player that out of forn should be rested/dropped for a game or two.

There was a time at Liverpool that any player not pulling his weight would get a visit to the subs bench for a few games, regardless of how the team was doing, as a player playing that badly hinders the team.

Nowadays we prefer to go on about how he scored an important goal last season or in the seasons before that as being reason enough for him to be untouchable even when he is poor for months.

Simple fact is that those important goals from years ago mean nothing to this season. We need one of two things from Gerrard at the moment, for him to either be getting regular goals or for him to leading like a captain on the pitch, he is doing neither and as such is bringing very little to the team despite his much vaunted reputation as a world class player. To my eyes it is obvious that he needs to be rested, both to allow him to recharge the batteries/heal up, and to give him a kick in the arse.

Spiritoftheseventies

Four games on MOTD last night and still they put us on last night. Fair play to Jockey Hansen for pointing that out. No post match analysis either.

mike65

Noticed that but they prolly wouldn't have added too much to the sum of human knowledge.

rossie1977

Dickerty wrote: »

I don't see any critics of Ngog apart from the dive.

you didn't watch the buildup to the match on sunday then i see, ian st john is far from a fan

Bandit12

bayviewclose wrote: »

Four games on MOTD last night and still they put us on last night. Fair play to Jockey Hansen for pointing that out. No post match analysis either.

You can guarentee if we lost we'd have been on first.

ctrl-alt-delete

bayviewclose wrote: »

Four games on MOTD last night and still they put us on last night. Fair play to Jockey Hansen for pointing that out. No post match analysis either.

In all fairness was it not that you's were last of the games played yesterday?

the games played tuesday night were then played after that.

Spiritoftheseventies

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

In all fairness was it not that you's were last of the games played yesterday?

the games played tuesday night were then played after that.

Yes but Tuesdays game were stale at that stage. Hansen brought it up albeit in a humerous sort of way by mentioning we would be top by March

therokerroar

Bandit12 wrote: »

You can guarentee if we lost we'd have been on first.

Delusion at its finest.

Spiritoftheseventies

therokerroar wrote: »

Delusion at its finest.

Why do you say that?

ctrl-alt-delete

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes but Tuesdays game were stale at that stage. Hansen brought it up albeit in a humerous sort of way by mentioning we would be top by March

It doesn't matter, it's still a petty thing to be moaning about, and Hansen came across as a Gob****e even though he was half joking.