Horrendous!! 4 yr old boy taken from his mum at dublin airport and mum deported

barneysmum

I had to post this cause i have been close to tears for some minutes now. If u follow this link http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...Node=H8-4#H8-4 there is a debate on the life of an innocent 4 yr old boy who previous to his experience has never been seperated from his mother. His mum was caught in dublin airport as an illegal immigrant who had refused to commit to her deportation order. She was deported and her son was taken from her by the Gards and place in care of the hse. Where by he is being taken care of by tax money 3 social workers and has had 5 unplanned moves through ( i presume) foster families. this has all happened since september 2009. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY AN INNOCENT BOY WILL BE TAKEN FROM HIS MUM, WHO WAS BEING DEPORTED AND NOW PLACED IN A FOSTER HOME, I THOUGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE IN A RECESSION. WHY DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE MONEY AND TIME TO SPEND ON FRUITLESS VENTURES AND WHY HAS THIS CHILD STILL NOT BEEN REUNITED WITH HIS MOTHER. THE MINISTER OF CHILDREN MUST BE A VERY INTELLIGENT GUY CAUSE, I DONT UNDERSTAND. MOST IMPORTANTLY WHY DO WE HAVE FOSTER FAMILIES WHO ARE EVER READY TO EMBRACE SUCH COMPLEXITIES AS TAKING CARE OF SOMEONE'S CHILD WHO HAS BEEN DEPORTED FROM THE COUNTRY JUST BECAUSE OF A FEW BOB. I REALLY AM PERPLEXED??????????????
( sorry bout the caps just had to highlight that area)

Fr Tod Umptious

barneysmum wrote: »

I had to post this cause i have been close to tears for some minutes now. If u follow this link http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...Node=H8-4#H8-4 there is a debate on the life of an innocent 4 yr old boy who previous to his experience has never been seperated from his mother. His mum was caught in dublin airport as an illegal immigrant who had refused to commit to her deportation order. She was deported and her son was taken from her by the Gards and place in care of the hse. Where by he is being taken care of by tax money 3 social workers and has had 5 unplanned moves through ( i presume) foster families. this has all happened since september 2009. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY AN INNOCENT BOY WILL BE TAKEN FROM HIS MUM, WHO WAS BEING DEPORTED AND NOW PLACED IN A FOSTER HOME, I THOUGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE IN A RECESSION. WHY DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE MONEY AND TIME TO SPEND ON FRUITLESS VENTURES AND WHY HAS THIS CHILD STILL NOT BEEN REUNITED WITH HIS MOTHER. THE MINISTER OF CHILDREN MUST BE A VERY INTELLIGENT GUY CAUSE, I DONT UNDERSTAND. MOST IMPORTANTLY WHY DO WE HAVE FOSTER FAMILIES WHO ARE EVER READY TO EMBRACE SUCH COMPLEXITIES AS TAKING CARE OF SOMEONE'S CHILD WHO HAS BEEN DEPORTED FROM THE COUNTRY JUST BECAUSE OF A FEW BOB. I REALLY AM PERPLEXED??????????????
( sorry bout the caps just had to highlight that area)

I gave up reading after a few lines, OP can you tidy up the post, it's impossible to read

Mr. Presentable

barneysmum wrote: »

WHY HAS THIS CHILD STILL NOT BEEN REUNITED WITH HIS MOTHER.

I don't know, but I do know if he was you'd be on here complaining he'd been deported................

seamus

barneysmum wrote: »

WHY HAS THIS CHILD STILL NOT BEEN REUNITED WITH HIS MOTHER.

Because the Government cannot legally deport an Irish citizen.

It is up to the mother to obtain a tourist visa to come get her child or otherwise arrange for the child to be transported back to her in Nigeria.

Zambia

barneysmum wrote: »

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY AN INNOCENT BOY WILL BE TAKEN FROM HIS MUM

asked and answered

barneysmum wrote: »

His mum was caught in dublin airport as an illegal immigrant who had refused to commit to her deportation order.

Joey the lips

Its a tough one but I am sure if legally the mother and child could be deported together they would have.

What I would rather know is why the child was allowed to be born in ireland in the first place. If I am born in America citizenship does not become a right. Does it?

RedPlanet

Joey the lips wrote: »

What I would rather know is why the child was allowed to be born in ireland in the first place. If I am born in America citizenship does not become a right. Does it?

Yes, a child born in America is automatically a US Citizen.

iMax

Joey the lips wrote: »

If I am born in America citizenship does not become a right. Does it?

Yes it does & America will protect it's citizens, for example, if the father is american & the mother Irish, the kids either have their own passports or go on the fathers.

If the family were to break up, the kids would be placed under the care of the father unless he went to court to allow the mother to take them (her citizenship would be under consideration).

I would have said the mother should have been allowed to take the child with her & the child would have the option of returning freely in the future (as it is a citizen).

Liam Byrne

I agree with the OP.

It's absolutely disgraceful that a mother would put her son and the authorities in a situation like that.

Does anyone know why she didn't "commit to her deportation order" ? What's her excuse ?

View

seamus wrote: »

Because the Government cannot legally deport an Irish citizen.

It is up to the mother to obtain a tourist visa to come get her child or otherwise arrange for the child to be transported back to her in Nigeria.

I would suspect that most parents, if they are standing at the foot of the steps of the plane they are about to be deported on, when asked "Do you want to take your child on the plane with you?" are going to opt to take their child with them.

The citizenship of your child is not usually what concerns a parent at moments like that.

Edit: On reading the Dail debate, the fault would appear to lie with the courts for putting the injuction in place and the DoJ for not having the cop on to apply to the courts to get the invoice lifted prior to deporting the mother. A modicum of common sense would have avoided this issue.

seamus

RedPlanet wrote: »

Yes, a child born in America is automatically a US Citizen.

In the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), the Supreme Court ruled that a person becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth, by virtue of the first clause of the 14th amendment of the Constitution, if that person is:

* Born in the United States
* Has parents that are subjects of a foreign power, but not in any diplomatic or official capacity of that foreign power
* Has parents that have permanent domicile and residence in the United States
* Has parents that are in the United States for business

So if your parents are on holidays or otherwise not living and working in the US when you are born, you are not automatically entitled to citizenship.

I would suspect that most parents, if they are standing at the foot of the steps of the plane they are about to be deported on, when asked "Do you want to take your child on the plane with you?" are going to opt to take their child with them.

I don't know the specifics on it. Since the woman is being forcibly removed by law, then the "option" of taking her child with her may not be one that they can present to her at that time because then they would also be legally deporting the child. Which they can't do. I might be wrong though.

maggy_thatcher

seamus wrote: »

Because the Government cannot legally deport an Irish citizen.

It is up to the mother to obtain a tourist visa to come get her child or otherwise arrange for the child to be transported back to her in Nigeria.

The child wasn't an Irish citizen.

The lady in question arrived in the State on 19 August 2005 and though her child was born in the State two days after her arrival, he is not an Irish citizen as he was born subsequent to the coming into force of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004 in that neither of his parents was an Irish citizen nor had either parent been lawfully resident in the State for three of the four years before the child’s birth

The reason was that the District Court refused to lift the interim care order that was in place because the mother refused to put the child voluntarily into care (which was required because the prison that the mother was in did not have the facilities to look after the child).

I don't know why the District Court didn't lift the care order, but if the mother had voluntarily put the child in care, this mess wouldn't have occurred.

djk1000

So are you saying that the child was forcibly taken from the mother, or did the mother just decide not to take him?

Reganio 2

Serves her right for not abiding by the law and using the kid as a excuse. Kid will be happier here anyway.

RedPlanet

seamus wrote: »

So if your parents are on holidays or otherwise not living and working in the US when you are born, you are not automatically entitled to citizenship..

You contradict your earlier quote:

Has parents that are in the United States for business

If his parents are working, then they are there for business.

It's a common enough occurance, for an illegal to gain status in USA by having a child. Once the child is born, it is automatically a citizen and it makes it much more difficult for the state to deport the parent/guardian.

snubbleste

The lady in question arrived in the State on 19 August 2005 and though her child was born in the State two days after her arrival,...

Clear case of an anchor baby

NothingMan

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Serves her right for not abiding by the law and using the kid as a excuse. Kid will be happier here anyway.

My sister works in some of the care homes for kids in these situations and I can say they may well not be better off. The kids in there can have a lot of problems from violence to not being emotionally developed fully for their age and unless they get some permanent residence I can imagine all sorts of issues developing.

I know some parts of Africa could be worse but not necessarily.

seamus

RedPlanet wrote: »

If his parents are working, then they are there for business.

Exactly, that's what the quote says - the parents must be living and working in the US. But they cannot be there on holiday

The child wasn't an Irish citizen. The lady in question arrived in the State on 19 August 2005 and though her child was born in the State two days after her arrival, he is not an Irish citizen as he was born subsequent to the coming into force of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004 in that neither of his parents was an Irish citizen nor had either parent been lawfully resident in the State for three of the four years before the child’s birth

Aha. The oireachtas site is slow and I couldn't be bothered reading more than Alan Shatter's short piece.

The reason was that the District Court refused to lift the interim care order that was in place because the mother refused to put the child voluntarily into care (which was required because the prison that the mother was in did not have the facilities to look after the child).

I don't know why the District Court didn't lift the care order, but if the mother had voluntarily put the child in care, this mess wouldn't have occurred.

This clearly explains then the reason that she wasn't given the option of taking the child with her.

So why is there no plan to deport the child now? He's not an Irish citizen and he has no family resident here. So deport him already.

JonathanAnon

snubbleste wrote: »

Clear case of an anchor baby

her child was born in the State two days after her arrival

The baby for her was just a means of staying in the country, as she put the chance of staying here above the health and safety of her child. She tried to abuse what was a stupid rule (i.e. baby being born here getting automatic citizenship), and now she is paying for it. I'm not saying it's right but she's only got herself to blame.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Its a bit harsh but no one to blame but the mother. The Irish government can't allow a precedent to be set by this case.

Lockstep

barneysmum wrote: »

I had to post this as I've been close to tears for some minutes now. If you follow this link http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...Node=H8-4#H8-4
The debate concerns a 4 yr old boy who has never been seperated from his mother before.. His mother was caught at Dublin Airport as an illegal immigrant who refused to commit to her deportation order. She was deported and her son was taken from her by the Gardaí and placed in HSE care. He is now being looked after by tax payer's money, 3 social workers and has had 5 unplanned moves presumably through foster families. This has all happened since september 2009.

Not being a grammar nazi OP but I tidied up your post so it's a bit easier to read (was a little difficult to understand beforehand)

AlekSmart

Its a bit harsh but no one to blame but the mother.

It`s most unlikely this lady will have simply decided one sunny Nigerian day to hop on an oul plane to...emmmmm lets see now...oh yea Dublin...wonder where that is ??.

It`s far more likely that she is/was a valued customer of one of the major Traffickers based in Nigeria and for whom the modern Irish Republic turned into a veritable money-chute.

There is a tendency in Ireland to view Nigeria and it`s citizens as some sort of gormless people who are in absolute need of our traditional succour and understanding.

This is totally counter to the evidence of a native Nigerian population who are well versed in and highly adept at manipulation of poorly drafted and enforced laws wherever they are to be found.

This particular lady was frustrated in her attempts to illegally enter the country and was quite correctly if somewhat belatedly ejected.

What the State must do now is learn rapidly from the errors at District Court level and ensure that it does not happen again.

Raiser

Thankfully we don't have a long and varied history of many Millions emigrating from this Country.

Thankfully we have a sense of decency and compassion.

Thankfully we embrace bureaucracy and all its totalitarian nonsenses.

Thankfully we recognise that the Law is an excellent guide to what is right and wrong.

Thankfully Children that the Irish State has institutionalised are usually protected from slave labour/paedophilia/physical abuse etc.

Thankfully the Mother in this case may have been treated compassionately, may have had access to a translator and may have had her rights/all possible consequences explained sufficiently.

Thankfully we don't have a long history of mismanaging immigration/refugee requests in this Country.

Thankfully all of YOU People consider yourselves to be so very well-informed that you can comment so glibly and sit in Judgement voicing what I suspect are for the most part ignorant throwaway, knee-jerk judgements on this case.........

Overheal

we recognise that the Law is an excellent guide to what is right and wrong.

Yea if only elected officials applied that to themselves once in a while

SeanW

Raiser wrote: »

Thankfully we ...

Thankfully we have at least some semblence of the Rule of Law.

Thankfully we spotted the glaring hole in our citizenship laws (which were the most relaxed in the 1st world) caused by our initial acceptance of the Good Friday Agreement which preceeded all the inward migration of the 2000s, and corrected it appropriately.

Thankfully the specifics of the case were clear - the woman came to drop an "anchor baby"

Thankfully we sent the bloody fraudster home, even though she fought it all the way to the airport runway. Which is probably why she was separated from her child.

Zambia

Raiser wrote: »

Thankfully all of YOU People consider yourselves to be so very well-informed that you can comment so glibly and sit in Judgement voicing what I suspect are for the most part ignorant throwaway, knee-jerk judgements on this case.........

Mother given a deportation order. Ignores this order and creates this crap scenario.
If an Irish woman was given an order to go lets say take better care of her kids. Then ignored this order, her kids may be taken away on the orders of the state.
If an Irish man was told to keep 100ft away from his wife and then did not. he could be imprisoned on the orders of the state.

The simple matter here is a Nigerian woman was told to leave the country on the orders of the state and did not. Thus forcing the state to act.

If the original deportation order was a bad call that's not the issue here. The Op was enquiring as to why the state separated a family. The state separates family's in Ireland all the time. Every day the state governed by offical's the Irish people elected act on their behalf. If the state does not even attempt to enforce its orders what road does that send us down?

walshb

Raiser wrote: »

Thankfully we don't have a long and varied history of many Millions emigrating from this Country.

Thankfully we have a sense of decency and compassion.

Thankfully we embrace bureaucracy and all its totalitarian nonsenses.

Thankfully we recognise that the Law is an excellent guide to what is right and wrong.

Thankfully Children that the Irish State has institutionalised are usually protected from slave labour/paedophilia/physical abuse etc.

Thankfully the Mother in this case may have been treated compassionately, may have had access to a translator and may have had her rights/all possible consequences explained sufficiently.

Thankfully we don't have a long history of mismanaging immigration/refugee requests in this Country.

Thankfully all of YOU People consider yourselves to be so very well-informed that you can comment so glibly and sit in Judgement voicing what I suspect are for the most part ignorant throwaway, knee-jerk judgements on this case.........

An thankfully this chancer was found out

The Orb

Raiser wrote: »

Thankfully we don't have a long and varied history of many Millions emigrating from this Country.

Thankfully we have a sense of decency and compassion.

Thankfully we embrace bureaucracy and all its totalitarian nonsenses.

Thankfully we recognise that the Law is an excellent guide to what is right and wrong.

Thankfully Children that the Irish State has institutionalised are usually protected from slave labour/paedophilia/physical abuse etc.

Thankfully the Mother in this case may have been treated compassionately, may have had access to a translator and may have had her rights/all possible consequences explained sufficiently.

Thankfully we don't have a long history of mismanaging immigration/refugee requests in this Country.

Thankfully all of YOU People consider yourselves to be so very well-informed that you can comment so glibly and sit in Judgement voicing what I suspect are for the most part ignorant throwaway, knee-jerk judgements on this case.........

Ironically yours is the most glib throw away comment of the lot, and you also fail to offer anything to the debate..
This woman, on deportation opted not to take the child with her and has refused all subsequent requests to take the child into her custody...the State was right...no more soft touch

Raiser

Wow - Sounds like some Folks out there really did have thar jobs and thar Wimmin taken......

In Bureaucracy we trust.

Amen.

HollyB

SeanW wrote: »

Thankfully the specifics of the case were clear - the woman came to drop an "anchor baby"

If that's the case, she was misinformed. As of the 1st of January 2005, being born in Ireland does not confer an automatic entitlement to Irish citizenship. This child was born on the 21st of August 2005, more than seven months too late to qualify for citizenship by virtue of being born in Ireland. If it was the mother's goal to secure Irish citizenship for her child, she must have been working based on outdated information. Her child is a Nigerian citizen, just one who happens to have been born in Ireland.

It sounds as though the mother is acting as an obstacle to being reunited with her child.

Dermot Ahern wrote:

On 17 October, a member of the GNIB spoke by telephone with a woman who identified herself as the lady in question. She indicated that she did not want the child to be returned to her in her country of origin and refused to disclose her whereabouts. The member of the GNIB provided her with his personal telephone and e-mail address to assist her in making contact. No such contact has been made. Recent attempts to contact the woman by telephone have not been successful.

If she's refusing to reveal her whereabouts then it seems to me that the State's hands are tied. If her goal is to ensure that she is allowed to return to Ireland and to enjoy permanent residency here, and if she is going to refuse to cooperate with any attempts to bring her son to Nigeria to be reunited with her, then giving in to her demands could ensure that, in the future, there will be countless other children who are put in this child's position, with parents leaving their children in Ireland and refusing to cooperate with attempts to reunite families in the country of origin, in the hope of blackmailing the State to break the rules for them.

This woman applied for asylum, was refused, appealed and was refused again. She then evaded deportation and, when she and her son were apprehended, she refused to cooperate by voluntarily placing her son in the care of the HSE, obliging the Garda to seek an emergency care order. As maggy_thatcher pointed out, this whole mess could have been avoided if the mother had voluntarily placed her son in the care of the HSE when she was arrested - if she manages to get her way and is allowed to return to stay in Ireland, her experience could become a "How To" guide for failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants with children, who are willing to use their children to get around immigration laws.

If the mother is refusing to cooperate with efforts to reunite her with her son, perhaps the Nigerian government would be able to locate other relatives to take charge of the child.

seamus

HollyB wrote: »

If the mother is refusing to cooperate with efforts to reunite her with her son, perhaps the Nigerian government would be able to locate other relatives to take charge of the child.

I'm pretty sure if the HSE told the mother that the child was going to be handed to state authorities in Nigeria, she'd have no problem coming out and claiming her lost property :rolleyes:
We need to not play the fluffy cards on this one. Find an appropriate authority in Nigeria, hand the child over and forget about it.