Was Mick McCarty right to play a B Team against Man U?

Fuhrer

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Which is more likely? What he said - infinitely. What's your point?

That protecting his first team from injury and suspension is more important then the off chance that a bunch of players who were playing in the championship last season get angry because their manager doesnt think they can beat the champions away from home?

Ush1

Fuhrer wrote: »

Yes it might.


And the reserve team might beat United 20-0.


It might.


Which is more likely?

Haha, I thought you said 2 nil, and if you had said your point might be more valid.

Players are more likely to be annoyed than United being beaten 20-0.:D

Bandit12

Atari Saipan

RasTa wrote: »

Wolves should clearly be awarded a ten point deducation and a huge fine. The decision of the 'manager' is basically match fixing. And what a shock, he's a member of the League Mafia Association. Fancy that!

Additionally Wolves should be made to pay compensation to all the Wolves fans. Including;

* Refund of Match Ticket
* Refund of any and all travelling expenses/Accomodation
* Refund of monies relating to TOIL or Annual Leave used to watch this fixture.

Additionally the manager should receive a touchline ban and a huge individual fine. The League and Football in general is utterly, laughably corrupt and has been for some time. There is something fundamentally wrong with the game of Football. Just look at all the 'non Premier' clubs and their attendances. Average attendances now in the 2nd tier down are typically 50%-95% empty. In pretty much every game. The game of Football relies on its grass roots. People may think the 'Premier' League is the be all and end all, but it stands squarely on the bastion that football is. Without that edifice below it, the 'Premier' League will crumble and show itself to be the Emporers New Clothes that it is.

There are too many results and too many decisions from the powers-that-be and two many double standards evidenced in all areas for there not to be something going on.

Sometimes the easiest, clearest way of discovering the truth is to weigh up the evidence and discard the evidence that doesn't fit. The League and Football is corrupt. And it's at every level. Perhaps it's always been this way.

Bang on the money

Fuhrer

Ush1 wrote: »

Haha, I thought you said 2 nil, and if you had said your point might be more valid.

Players are more likely to be annoyed than United being beaten 20-0.:D

Yeah they are but I was reffering to them being injured

Fuhrer

Bandit12 wrote: »

Bang on the money

Obviously you feel that Liverpool should get the same when they rested players against fulham ahead of the champions league final?

jaykay74

No

Fuhrer wrote: »

Obviously you feel that Liverpool should get the same when they rested players against fulham ahead of the champions league final?

somehow what fergie and rafa did to Sheff Utd is different

Mitch Connor

No

RasTa wrote: »

Wolves should clearly be awarded a ten point deducation and a huge fine. The decision of the 'manager' is basically match fixing. And what a shock, he's a member of the League Mafia Association. Fancy that!

Additionally Wolves should be made to pay compensation to all the Wolves fans. Including;

* Refund of Match Ticket
* Refund of any and all travelling expenses/Accomodation
* Refund of monies relating to TOIL or Annual Leave used to watch this fixture.

Additionally the manager should receive a touchline ban and a huge individual fine. The League and Football in general is utterly, laughably corrupt and has been for some time. There is something fundamentally wrong with the game of Football. Just look at all the 'non Premier' clubs and their attendances. Average attendances now in the 2nd tier down are typically 50%-95% empty. In pretty much every game. The game of Football relies on its grass roots. People may think the 'Premier' League is the be all and end all, but it stands squarely on the bastion that football is. Without that edifice below it, the 'Premier' League will crumble and show itself to be the Emporers New Clothes that it is.

There are too many results and too many decisions from the powers-that-be and two many double standards evidenced in all areas for there not to be something going on.

Sometimes the easiest, clearest way of discovering the truth is to weigh up the evidence and discard the evidence that doesn't fit. The League and Football is corrupt. And it's at every level. Perhaps it's always been this way.

Don't agree. this talk of corruption... type of thing I expect to see on a certain other forum...

Fuhrer

jaykay74 wrote: »

somehow what fergie and rafa did to Sheff Utd is different

Somehow you've confused me with someone who was condeming resting players.

jaykay74

No

Fuhrer wrote: »

Somehow you've confused me with someone who was condeming resting players.

I was agreeing and backing up your point...

Bandit12

Atari Saipan

opr wrote: »

While obviously it is easy to understand the reasoning behind the decision, what if other clubs start following suit ? The league would very quickly become an absolute joke!

Opr

It's been that way for years. Even in the home of sports entertainment (USA) they use a draft system to give each and every team a fair crack at the whip instead of money ruling all like the premiership and football in general. The likes of Utd,Chelsea and soon City can field a second string of players that the likes of Wolves would kill for. Teams have gone to places like Anfield,Old Trafford,Highbury for years now and are beaten before they even take to the pitch. It's worse now than ever imo.

Bandit12

Atari Saipan

Fuhrer wrote: »

Obviously you feel that Liverpool should get the same when they rested players against fulham ahead of the champions league final?

Yes yes i do.

Mitch Connor

No

Bandit12 wrote: »

It's been that way for years. Even in the home of sports entertainment (USA) they use a draft system to give each and every team a fair crack at the whip instead of money ruling all like the premiership and football in general. The likes of Utd,Chelsea and soon City can field a second string of players that the likes of Wolves would kill for. Teams have gone to places like Anfield,Old Trafford,Highbury for years now and are beaten before they even take to the pitch. It's worse now than ever imo.

worse now than ever? when the number of dropped points by the bigger sides this season is higher than in years? i think the league is closer this season than it has been in ages.

and you can't compare footall to the american system - which is closed off and completely different and not at all workable in football.

Bandit12

Atari Saipan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

worse now than ever? when the number of dropped points by the bigger sides this season is higher than in years? i think the league is closer this season than it has been in ages.

and you can't compare footall to the american system - which is closed off and completely different and not at all workable in football.

How is it not workable may i ask?

Jazzy

i think going by the book, he was right to and its his squad and he can play them how he likes. but if i had paid for a ticket and travel to the match i would have been furious and that is who these clubs play for, their fans

That_Guy

Atari Saipan

ntlbell wrote: »

Can't believe the FA are looking for an explanation it's none of their f*cking business who he picks.

I wonder when they'll ask United for an explanation. By doing this they've now to be consistent.

kida

Jazzy wrote: »

i think going by the book, he was right to and its his squad and he can play them how he likes. but if i had paid for a ticket and travel to the match i would have been furious and that is who these clubs play for, their fans

I agree but thats different to the league punishing them, fans should have been aware he was doing that

Mitch Connor

No

Bandit12 wrote: »

How is it not workable may i ask?

the players are drafted from college and highschool ball - that system does not exist in football. So, where are you proposing that the players to draft are going to come from?

How on earth would you implement a draft system in football? Go on, show me how it is workable.

Le King

No

Yes, as long as he doesn't moan about other managers doing it later on in the season.

Prufrock

No

Damn I miss one United match due to college projects and this happens...:rolleyes:

Mick McCarty is the manager of Wolves and can play whatever team he wants. He decided to play a weak Wolves team against the ManU B team to save his big players for the weekend. I wouldn't have done the same but there you go.

He'll live and die by results like all managers do and if they go down then people will ask why he surrendered 3 points to United in such a manner. If he stays up then not one Wolves fan will care. How can the FA charge him? He can just say he was using his squad. No way any charge will stick.

ROCKMAN

No

Mick did little wrong IMO ,
Its something clubs and Manager do Week in week out (ok maybe not to such an extent ). Managers are paid to caretake their clubs on behalf of the Fans and put the clubs best interests First.
So If at the end of the season this game plan see Wolves stay up , I dont think many Wolves fans will care less


As for football itself which would people rather see

So called strongest 11 come and park the bus

OR

Starting 11 with something to prove and places to fight for ..

Bandit12

Atari Saipan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

the players are drafted from college and highschool ball - that system does not exist in football. So, where are you proposing that the players to draft are going to come from?

How on earth would you implement a draft system in football? Go on, show me how it is workable.

Don't be silly. I'm not saying the American system would work in Europe and i don't have all the answers for god's sake but long term something needs to happen or else this situation will get worse.

Hank_Jones

No

It's his team he can do whatever he wants.

If they beat Burnley at the weekend people will be saying that it was a masterstroke. It's not as if the first team would get anything from the United game anyway.

He's trying to keep them in the league, not pushing for the top of the table.

The_Kew_Tour

Atari Saipan

If they win at the weekend then everything will be forgotten about from Wolves fans point of view.

If they dont then Mick has some questions to answer.

Its excellent or disaster type move we will know after Burnley game is over.

Holsten

Atari Saipan

No, not the current United team, any team could beat them on the right day.

OPENROAD

Atari Saipan

Come the end of the season and Wolves are in a relegation battle, now the closest team to Wolves play team x and team x put out a weakened team, hope Mick won't be upset by this.


You have to feel for the Wolves supporters who paid full price last night.

JPA

Atari Saipan

63% yes. Surprising.
When does a manager stop? Oh United at home will beat us, so will Chelsea, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs (luckily he didn't take that attitude though, eh?)etc. It's BS.

The Muppet

Atari Saipan

Mick was wrong to do what he did, it damages the intregity of the competition.

simonw

No

JPA wrote: »

63% yes. Surprising.
When does a manager stop? Oh United at home will beat us, so will Chelsea, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs (luckily he didn't take that attitude though, eh?)etc. It's BS.

I'd love to see statistics of newly promoted clubs' results away to united in the last 10 years, it might not prove to be such BS as you think.

simonw

No

In fact, in 07/08, the three relegated teams took 1 point between them from old trafford. That point was Reading, who managed a 0-0 draw. And as if to prove a point, Fulham, the team that stayed up on goal difference, were beaten 2-0 in OT. Bolton, who were a point above them were also beaten 2-0.

Fulham though, had beaten Reading home and away over the season. It's a case in point that teams stay up by beating the teams around them.

I'm positive that this pattern is repeated pretty much every year

bazzachazza

Atari Saipan

The end result was three nil. Probably would have been similar if it was his first team. At the end of the season its better to have stayed up than to have gone down saying you beat UTD. Managers are paid to manage their teams and to know when and where to pick their fights. He knows he has more chance of beating Burnley at the weekend than UTD and 3 points against Burnley could realistically be 6 points come the last day.

I agree it was a very dramatic way of doing it but haven't UTD/Arsenal and others been doing the same in the smaller cups yet this is now accepted as the norm and is indeed expected. Tomorrow David Moyes is fielding 9 second string players in the last group match in the Europa league.

Mitch Connor

No

Bandit12 wrote: »

Don't be silly. I'm not saying the American system would work in Europe and i don't have all the answers for god's sake but long term something needs to happen or else this situation will get worse.

You brought up the American draft system, I said it wasn't workable and you asked me to demonstrate why i felt it wasn't workable. I don't think it was unreasonable on my part to ask you to demonstrate why you feel it is workable.

LuckyLloyd

No

opr wrote: »

People seem to be arguing different points.

mike65 - I think everyone fully agrees with what your saying. We can all see the logic behind what Mick did and in terms of the best thing for his team his decision was more than likely correct.

The problem I have with the situation is if all the so called weaker teams now start following suit on a regular basis it will actually start to directly effect the chances of certain teams to finish Top 4 or who wins the league based on what other teams decide to do against you ? Your messing with the integrity of the league that each team goes out to try and gain as many points as possible in each game. Instead you have teams playing a chess like strategy that will be more beneficial to them overall but this will directly impact opposing teams differently depending on how they fit into your strategy.

Opr

Opr, I am fully aware that this will adversely affect certain clubs more than others (i.e. Liverpool as you explained earlier). I am also aware of why this line of reasoning will appeal to many fans. Unfortunately though, I think the point is effectively countered with one word:

"TOUGH"

A rule insisting that clubs field full strength teams is ridiculous. The best players at a club is a subjective question where the opinion of the club concerned is the one most relevant. If the concern is gambling issues or match fixing, then the correct rule to insert is one that bans official team sheets being made public until a short period before kickoff / employees of clubs being banned from punting premier league games.

You should never be forced to play your starters. You should be allowed to prioritise / deprioritise games as you see fit.

angel01

No

Yes in my opinion, he was never going to beat Man Utd with a first team or not, he has to think of the bigger picture and that is survival. Pointless playing them in a game that he could risk injuries or worse. He did the right thing and I support his decision completely.

These players are all professional players and should be called upon when needed, otherwise what is the point in having a squad system.

Mitch Connor

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Opr, I am fully aware that this will adversely affect certain clubs more than others (i.e. Liverpool as you explained earlier). I am also aware of why this line of reasoning will appeal to many fans. Unfortunately though, I think the point is effectively countered with one word:

"TOUGH"

A rule insisting that clubs field full strength teams is ridiculous. The best players at a club is a subjective question where the opinion of the club concerned is the one most relevant. If the concern is gambling issues or match fixing, then the correct rule to insert is one that bans official team sheets being made public until a short period before kickoff / employees of clubs being banned from punting premier league games.

You should never be forced to play your starters. You should be allowed to prioritise / deprioritise games as you see fit.

i agree with this - but then I do feel the extent to which Wolves changed their team is a problem. 10 changes from the previous game, and the one 'constant' had only started 3 games prior to that.

I understand why they did it - the Burnley game is far more important and more winnable for them, but I would also say they have a duty to the other teams in the league to always give it their best shot. I know if teams did that vs Chelsea or Arsenal, I would be very annoyed (I wouldn't be saying it was a conspiracy to rob United of the league) and I can understand why fans of other teams would be feeling this way. Wolves did beat United last time they were a premiership team, for instance.

I do think managers need to be allowed to rest players for whatever reason they see fit, but I can understand why what McCarthy did will have left a bad taste in the moth of other fans (and wolves fans).

angel01

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i agree with this - but then I do feel the extent to which Wolves changed their team is a problem. 10 changes from the previous game, and the one 'constant' had only started 3 games prior to that.

I understand why they did it - the Burnley game is far more important and more winnable for them, but I would also say they have a duty to the other teams in the league to always give it their best shot. I know if teams did that vs Chelsea or Arsenal, I would be very annoyed (I wouldn't be saying it was a conspiracy to rob United of the league) and I can understand why fans of other teams would be feeling this way. Wolves did beat United last time they were a premiership team, for instance.

I do think managers need to be allowed to rest players for whatever reason they see fit, but I can understand why what McCarthy did will have left a bad taste in the moth of other fans (and wolves fans).

Wolves have a small squad and don't have the cash to go out and buy loads on players, Man Utd have been doing it for years in other competitions, what is the difference?

LuckyLloyd

No

Bandit12 wrote: »

It's been that way for years. Even in the home of sports entertainment (USA) they use a draft system to give each and every team a fair crack at the whip instead of money ruling all like the premiership and football in general. The likes of Utd,Chelsea and soon City can field a second string of players that the likes of Wolves would kill for. Teams have gone to places like Anfield,Old Trafford,Highbury for years now and are beaten before they even take to the pitch. It's worse now than ever imo.

If you want to hold up the NFL as the standard on this matter, you may be interested to know that franchises routinely play back-ups for end of season games once a top seed has been locked up or all hope of a competitive record has gone out the window. The Indianapolis Colts are likely to do that for their last two games and this will have a significant affect on the wildcard race. And you know what? No-one gives a ****. Why? Because it is their prerogative to play whoever they like.

LuckyLloyd

No

28064212 wrote: »

There's a problem with the question being asked here, and it's not just that McCarty is supposed to have an 'h' in it. "Was he right to do it?" Right for who? For the good of the league? For the Wolves fans? For the long-term future of the club? For the players?

If you're talking about it at a club level, whether he was right to do it is almost completely unmeasurable. It was a managerial decision, and it's impossible to tell what impact the alternatives could have had. He could have played the same 11 as against Spurs, they could have went out and lost 10-0 and Doyle could have been injured for the season. Was Ferguson wrong to play Vidic? He went off injured and might miss the next game. On the other hand, Vidic got the vital 2nd goal, without which it could have been a very different game. It's the same situation. It's ridiculous to try second-guessing managerial decisions. Whether he's wrong or right is irrelevant (except to a Wolves fan).

From a legal standpoint, and even a "fair-play" standpoint, he's done nothing that hasn't been done by every manager at one stage or another, especially over the busy Christmas period. The FA have absolutely nothing they could charge him with without having to retrospectively charge every other team. Any manager who tries to bring up the issue will have to play their first-choice 11 in every game for the rest of the season.

Excellent post imo.

Mitch Connor

No

angel01 wrote: »

Yes in my opinion, he was never going to beat Man Utd with a first team or not, he has to think of the bigger picture and that is survival. Pointless playing them in a game that he could risk injuries or worse. He did the right thing and I support his decision completely.

These players are all professional players and should be called upon when needed, otherwise what is the point in having a squad system.

why could they not have beaten United though?

Burnley beat United this season, why couldn't Wolves?

Odds are they would not beat United, no matter what side they put out, but it is clearly possible to beat United this season, more so than previous seasons imo. Even looking at the side they put out last night, they came close to going 1 up as it was, and if they had done who knows what would have happened. It may have ended up 3-0, but United did not blow a second string Wolves side away.

LuckyLloyd

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i agree with this - but then I do feel the extent to which Wolves changed their team is a problem. 10 changes from the previous game, and the one 'constant' had only started 3 games prior to that.

I understand why they did it - the Burnley game is far more important and more winnable for them, but I would also say they have a duty to the other teams in the league to always give it their best shot. I know if teams did that vs Chelsea or Arsenal, I would be very annoyed (I wouldn't be saying it was a conspiracy to rob United of the league) and I can understand why fans of other teams would be feeling this way. Wolves did beat United last time they were a premiership team, for instance.

I do think managers need to be allowed to rest players for whatever reason they see fit, but I can understand why what McCarthy did will have left a bad taste in the moth of other fans (and wolves fans).

They have a duty to make sure the players on the pitch for a particular game play honestly. They have no responsibilities with respect to who those players are from one game to the next.

angel01

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

why could they not have beaten United though?

Burnley beat United this season, why couldn't Wolves?

Odds are they would not beat United, no matter what side they put out, but it is clearly possible to beat United this season, more so than previous seasons imo. Even looking at the side they put out last night, they came close to going 1 up as it was, and if they had done who knows what would have happened. It may have ended up 3-0, but United did not blow a second string Wolves side away.

Wolves were beaten by Chelsea 4-0, Beaten by Arsenal 4-1, Beaten by Sunderland 5-2, beaten by Blackburn 3-1 and you honestly believe first team or not they could beat Man Utd?

Not a chance. Let them play the best players for the teams they can realistically beat.

Mitch Connor

No

angel01 wrote: »

Wolves have a small squad and don't have the cash to go out and buy loads on players, Man Utd have been doing it for years in other competitions, what is the difference?

what exactly are you asking me?

I have said I understand why McCarthy did what he did, and I also understand why some fans would be annoyed by what he did (like they were when United and Liverpool put out weakened teams - and lost - in the premier league)

I don't think Wolves should be fined, but I can understand why people are annoyed. If United win the league this season by a couple of points people will, perhaps rightly, look at the fact Wolves basically handed them the points.

Also, for me, other competitions ARE different, the FA Cup and the League Cup is completely different from playing a weakened side in the league. In a Cup, your results ONLY have an impact on your team. In a league, your results have an impact on many teams, not just yours and the side you are playing. Playing a weakened side in a cup and getting knocked out won't potentially cost another side their place in the PL and tens of millions.

angel01

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what exactly are you asking me?

I have said I understand why McCarthy did what he did, and I also understand why some fans would be annoyed by what he did (like they were when United and Liverpool put out weakened teams - and lost - in the premier league)

I don't think Wolves should be fined, but I can understand why people are annoyed. If United win the league this season by a couple of points people will, perhaps rightly, look at the fact Wolves basically handed them the points.

Also, for me, other competitions ARE different, the FA Cup and the League Cup is completely different from playing a weakened side in the league. In a Cup, your results ONLY have an impact on your team. In a league, your results have an impact on many teams, not just yours and the side you are playing. Playing a weakened side in a cup and getting knocked out won't potentially cost another side their place in the PL and tens of millions.

sorry I can't agree, Man Utd or whatever team have to beat the team that they are facing, they are all professional players. What is the point of a squad system if you think they shouldn't be called upon.

All the top teams rotate their players against weaker teams, yet you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Mitch Connor

No

angel01 wrote: »

Wolves were beaten by Chelsea 4-0, Beaten by Arsenal 4-1, Beaten by Sunderland 5-2, beaten by Blackburn 3-1 and you honestly believe first team or not they could beat Man Utd?

Not a chance. Let them play the best players for the teams they can realistically beat.

Honestly, I would expect United to beat Wolves regardless of what players Wolves put out - but United are a beatable side this season and I think it is possible Wolves could have nicked something with a full side. Had they got an early goal, it could have been 'one of those nights' for United. I don't think Burnley should be able to beat United, but they did. United should have been able to beat Besiktas, but they didn't. Look at the amount of sides that, on paper, Liverpool should beat, but they have failed to do so.

angel01

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Honestly, I would expect United to beat Wolves regardless of what players Wolves put out - but United are a beatable side this season and I think it is possible Wolves could have nicked something with a full side. Had they got an early goal, it could have been 'one of those nights' for United. I don't think Burnley should be able to beat United, but they did. United should have been able to beat Besiktas, but they didn't. Look at the amount of sides that, on paper, Liverpool should beat, but they have failed to do so.

Yes that may be the case but in the end of the day, if they beat United and pick up key injuries and that will impact on their season. It is about survival, not whether they beat Man Utd or not. They could not risk players getting injured over a key christmas & new year period.

I think Mick was right in his decision completely.

Mitch Connor

No

angel01 wrote: »

sorry I can't agree, Man Utd or whatever team have to beat the team that they are facing, they are all professional players. What is the point of a squad system if you think they shouldn't be called upon.

All the top teams rotate their players against weaker teams, yet you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Are you just trying to pick a fight? Honestly?

You seem to be arguing someone elses pints with me.

angel01

No

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Are you just trying to pick a fight? Honestly?

You seem to be arguing someone elses pints with me.

No I was just saying my points, now I know why I don't visit this section so much. I was just sharing my opinion. Nevermind.

ctrl-alt-delete

No

I just hope the FA will be asking Avram Grant to be explaining his actions tonight in naming 7 different players from the weekends game,

If not they'll come out looking even more stupid than they do now.

Xavi6

Atari Saipan

Fuhrer wrote: »

If you have such great love for debate maybe you would have engaded in some rather then going straight for the


"YOU OBVISOULY NOT WORTH MY TIME TO TALK TOOOOOO"


arguement

I think you'll find that was done because you accused me of being a WUM because I didn't share your opinion. Not worth going down to that sort of level of debate.

noodler

whatawaster wrote: »

Do the FA have a list of who the best Wolves players are? They are simply reacting to the media, as they always do. It's a joke.

I imagine it would be the guts of what teams started all their other premiership games to be perfectly honest.

Anyway, it would be a disaster if everyone in the league started this crap.

Agree with Xavi - far too early to be doing it.

Big boys have gotten away with it before so, like with the diving contreversey, there is probably no grounds for punishment but it goes against the idea of sport.

That_Guy

Atari Saipan

Was watching SSN there earlier and Wenger was giving out about Wolves. Laughable really seeing as he picks kids every single year in the Carling Cup.

Nothing should happen to Wolves over this as no other team has been called on it before.