Graduate medicine Loans

j.mcdrmd

The HSE have cut salaries for new entrants.

Interns (1st year post graduation) are now paid €30,257.

Here is the link to HSE salary scales:-

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/salary_scales_new_entrant2011.pdf

There is no guarantee of being offered an intern position. There is a competitive national application and matching process run by the HSE.

First Aid Ireland

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

The HSE have cut salaries for new entrants.

Interns (1st year post graduation) are now paid €30,257.

Here is the link to HSE salary scales:-

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/salary_scales_new_entrant2011.pdf

There is no guarantee of being offered an intern position. There is a competitive national application and matching process run by the HSE.

Is it even that much now? I thought they were on less this year, but I could be wrong. The paycuts they were talking about may just refer to USC and non payment of OT etc.

eire_245

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

Is it even that much now? I thought they were on less this year, but I could be wrong. The paycuts they were talking about may just refer to USC and non payment of OT etc.

If they continue the way they are they will be lucky to even fill the intern positions never mind the junior doctor positions.

Chiam

shaz84 wrote: »

The only deal on offer is a student loan package which is not tailored for medicine. This is the one that others have mentioned in the previous few pages. The offer is thus:

• Upto E25k per academic year for 4 years
• Capital repayment moritorium till year 5 (first year earning)
• Interest repayment from month 1
• Resident Irish Guarantors required (no flexibility on this - if your guarantors are from UK or other EU country you will not be offered the loan)
• 8.5% APR
• 7-10 year repayment following graduation (so all in all upto 14 years from first repayment).

Can I ask what bank and where you got this information Shaz84?

Librium

the uk people are totally mad going to the medschools in ireland. just reapply and go to george's, it works out at least 50 grand cheaper.

shaz84

Chiam wrote: »

Can I ask what bank and where you got this information Shaz84?

In branch at the UCD AIB campus, confirmed by AIB group in an email to me.

shaz84

Librium wrote: »

the uk people are totally mad going to the medschools in ireland. just reapply and go to george's, it works out at least 50 grand cheaper.

Agreed, but it is exteremly difficult to get an offer in the a GEP course in the UK. Remember it is about 25:1 application to offer ratio, with a only 1/3 of interviewees getting an offer. The GAMSAT score are also much higher, 61 was the threshold for Georges, just for an interview, and at Nottingham, even getting 60 on the GAMSAT with an amazing interview performance was not enough to get a place as the GAMSAT score was considered in the evaluation criteria post interview as well. Further, you only get 2 goes, and after that you have had your lot.

Easy to say Librium, but the option of a medical degree with 50k debt, with the long term return on capital employed is appealing given the strength of competition in the UK

Librium

i'd also prefer if uk people didn't steal irish people's medschool opportunities, the uk students should be charged the same as the americans in my opinion.

shaz84

Librium wrote: »

i'd also prefer if uk people didn't steal irish people's medschool opportunities, the uk students should be charged the same as the americans in my opinion.

You are entitled to you own opinion. I could also say that I would prefer if my hard earned taxed income wasnt used to bail out the Irish economy via the European Central Bank and that you should be responsible for your own financial management of yoir economy as well as the consequences of overspending.

Remember, however, that ireland is a member state of the EU and being part of the EU is a two way partnership, the goal of which is to improve the outcomes of all its (EUs) citizens.

One of the benefits of being in the EU is that EU citizens have the right to pay the same for tuition as nationals. This works both ways, meaning that you can come to the UK and pay the same for tuition as we do, rather than the exorbitant non-EU fees. You can also have the right to freedom of movement for work opportunities after you graduate, which from what I have seen over the past 7 years, the Irish have taken great advantage of. And, there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

So, given this, why should I not excerise my rights as an EU citizen as well?

SpiderP

Librium wrote: »

i'd also prefer if uk people didn't steal irish people's medschool opportunities, the uk students should be charged the same as the americans in my opinion.

Would you also prefer if Irish students didn't "steal" opportunities in UK universities?? Because in reality, the amount of UK students in Irish institutions, in comparison to Irish students in UK institutions, is low. Consider the amount of Irish students studying pharmacy in the UK. There are pharmacy courses over there in which at least a third, if not more, of a given year is made up of Irish students.

shaz84

SpiderP wrote: »

Would you also prefer if Irish students didn't "steal" opportunities in UK universities?? Because in reality, the amount of UK students in Irish institutions, in comparison to Irish students in UK institutions, is low. Consider the amount of Irish students studying pharmacy in the UK. There are pharmacy courses over there in which at least a third, if not more, of a given year is made up of Irish students.

Im sure you could get an accurate figure from the British Pharamceutical Students Association, but I would say that roughly 15% - 20% of Pre-Registration Pharmacists in the South east of England and Greater London are Irish nationals, if not a great deal more.

Again, I do not see anything wrong non-UK nationals in the EU having these opportunities [edit: within the UK], but it must be a mutual relationship.

lelouchan

Librium wrote: »

i'd also prefer if uk people didn't steal irish people's medschool opportunities, the uk students should be charged the same as the americans in my opinion.

The places are open to all EU students, get over it.

Nanorman

Get in on your own merit, not hoping there are just less people applying. If an English person gets in and you don't, they did better in the GAMSAT, it's not their fault.

A 2nd year GEM in UCC said that their year had "28 North American, 42 Irish, and 2 Brits". Has the loan situation for UK applicants always been non-existent? Or do UL/Dublin schools have more UK students? I just assume since the scores are lower here, loads of UK applicants would be coming here. If someone really wants to do medicine, the fees/loan shouldn't scare them off.

Librium

shaz84 wrote: »

Librium wrote: »

i'd also prefer if uk people didn't steal irish people's medschool opportunities, the uk students should be charged the same as the americans in my opinion.

You are entitled to you own opinion. I could also say that I would prefer if my hard earned taxed income wasnt used to bail out the Irish economy via the European Central Bank and that you should be responsible for your own financial management of yoir economy as well as the consequences of overspending.

Remember, however, that ireland is a member state of the EU and being part of the EU is a two way partnership, the goal of which is to improve the outcomes of all its (EUs) citizens.

One of the benefits of being in the EU is that EU citizens have the right to pay the same for tuition as nationals. This works both ways, meaning that you can come to the UK and pay the same for tuition as we do, rather than the exorbitant non-EU fees. You can also have the right to freedom of movement for work opportunities after you graduate, which from what I have seen over the past 7 years, the Irish have taken great advantage of. And, there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

So, given this, why should I not excerise my rights as an EU citizen as well?

You are actually incorrect on a number of points, for example Irish students are not entitled to the same education grants Scottish students studying in Scotland are. <Snip>

lelouchan

Librium wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest are your family actually English or do you come from a long line of economic migrants who take their newly adopted country for all they can get?

You are being really really rude. And I doubt any of us doesn't know one person in ireland who has emigrated for a better place, so how dare you?
As an aside Shaz has been fantastically helpful giving us an account of his experiences with the bank, so there is no need to descend to that level.
As someone said, everyone got their places on MERIT and fair play to them all.

I'm not sure why you are so bitter, but don't take it out on people you don't even know.

sam34

Librium wrote: »

You are actually incorrect on a number of points, for example Irish students are not entitled to the same education grants Scottish students studying in Scotland are. Just as a matter of interest are your family actually English or do you come from a long line of economic migrants who take their newly adopted country for all they can get?

banned for one week.

there's a standard expected here and your post is way off the mark.

when your ban is up, please post constructively in a civil manner or you will be banned again.

GB_88

Librium wrote: »

i'd also prefer if uk people didn't steal irish people's medschool opportunities, the uk students should be charged the same as the americans in my opinion.

Hi all, my first post here but I have been following the thread thus far. I find it incredulous that you say this considering the mass exodus of people Ireland has seen toward cities such as london where they are fortunate enough to find employment.

I am British and currently holding a place in limerick but due to the difficulty in obtaining a loan as a result of residency I have decided to postpone medicine for a year in favor of working as hard as I can and earning that much needed cash. Perhaps the Euro will continue to depreciate against the Pound, who knows?? Or even the possibility that lending conditions will improve in the next 12 months. I feel that I could not give my all to medicine if I was constantly in fear of my finances. By all accounts first year medicine is one of the toughest and so I would like to be comfortable enough with regard to money.

How are other GB applicants feeling? Would you consider postponing med for a year? Would be nice to hear your thoughts.

shaz84

shaz84 wrote: »

Thanks CramCycle. I have indentified the relationship owner and left them a voicemail. its a lady called Ruth Harrison in the Fees office.

Hi All,

Quick update on the Career Development Loans situation.

I have contacted Ruth Harrison at the UCD fees office and there is good news... the University is going to register the course DN401 - Medicine (Graudate Entry) with the Skills Funding Agency, so that UK citizens have an opportunity to apply for financial aid up to £10,000 GBP, 80% of which must be used for tutition.

The loan will be repayment free for 36 months. Interest and Capital repayments start after that.

It will take 4-6 weeks to register the course, and then another 4-6 weeks for the application process, so not very helpful if you are looking to use this money to fund tutition for the first semester of this year.

If anyone wants to utilise this facility, contact details are below:

Barclays Bank Career Development Loan Team: 0845 60 900 60

You will need a Barclays or Co-Op bank account (dont have details for Co-op sorry).

Skills Funding Agency: The contact who is aware of UCD registering this course is called Roselyn. Phone number: 0800 100 900.

Hope this helps those still looking to start this year.

shaz84

Librium wrote: »

You are actually incorrect on a number of points, for example Irish students are not entitled to the same education grants Scottish students studying in Scotland are

I was not aware that Irish citizens were not entitled to Scottish educational grants. If this is the case, it is the same for you as it is for us English, as the Scottish grant based system doesnt apply for English students either.

First Aid Ireland

shaz84 wrote: »

You are entitled to you own opinion. I could also say that I would prefer if my hard earned taxed income wasnt used to bail out the Irish economy via the European Central Bank and that you should be responsible for your own financial management of yoir economy as well as the consequences of overspending.

It's a massive loan! It' not money for nothing!

Anyway, there's stacks of Irish students doing medical/pharmacy/physio/vet training in the UK, taking places away from their students. UK unis are packed with Irish students.

Palo Alto

I think we should move on and focus on keeping up with details on the loans if they are available, no point in feeding the troll further!

I think next week will be D-Day for me with Cork and I hope someone in Bank of Ireland and Ulsterbank can finally give me concrete answers regarding the loan.

If they impose the residency criterion stringently I'm screwed but I'm still relatively hopeful as I am an Irish citizen, have a guarantor and worst case scenario can always go back to earning some money (although not much at the moment!) in Northern Ireland as a solicitor if things go very wrong.

It just really galls me to have to deal with all of this as I am sure it does for everyone after putting all the effort into GAMSAT and thinking that that was the hard part!

I still think it's particularly insane that the Ulster Bank loan is thus far only available at UL, it literally makes no sense whatsoever!

Reality_Check1

Im not sure if that person was trolling but a fact I find interesting is that if Irish students were banned from applying in the UK and vise versa the points here would shoot up across the board so we should be grateful in a way

shaz84

shaz84 wrote: »

Hi All,

Quick update on the Career Development Loans situation.

I have contacted Ruth Harrison at the UCD fees office and there is good news... the University is going to register the course DN401 - Medicine (Graudate Entry) with the Skills Funding Agency, so that UK citizens have an opportunity to apply for financial aid up to £10,000 GBP, 80% of which must be used for tutition.

The loan will be repayment free for 36 months. Interest and Capital repayments start after that.

It will take 4-6 weeks to register the course, and then another 4-6 weeks for the application process, so not very helpful if you are looking to use this money to fund tutition for the first semester of this year.

If anyone wants to utilise this facility, contact details are below:

Barclays Bank Career Development Loan Team: 0845 60 900 60

You will need a Barclays or Co-Op bank account (dont have details for Co-op sorry).

Skills Funding Agency: The contact who is aware of UCD registering this course is called Roselyn. Phone number: 0800 100 900.

Hope this helps those still looking to start this year.

Have the application pack through. Basically, they pay the loan in installments, twice a year. If you take out the full £10,000 then you get £2,500 in month 1, 6, 12, and 18. So it want necessarily help pay off one semesters tuition. And, looking through the application pack from Co-Op and Barclays, the Co-Op loan looks like a better option as the overall interest rate is better (4.9% vs 5.7% APR overall).

Also, SUSI (student-finance.ie) confirmed that there is no restriction for fee grants for EU students. So, it looks like we can get up to EUR 6,250 per annum from SUSI to help fund our studies. It's means tested based on previous years salary though, so if you're earning a decent wage already you wont be entitledd to much (or anything) for the first year. More info below:

http://ym.adnet.ie/downloads/1339418623/Student_Grant_Scheme_2012.pdf

Regards
Shaz

ciara84

shaz84 wrote: »

Also, SUSI (student-finance.ie) confirmed that there is no restriction for fee grants for EU students. So, it looks like we can get up to EUR 6,250 per annum from SUSI to help fund our studies. It's means tested based on previous years salary though, so if you're earning a decent wage already you wont be entitledd to much (or anything) for the first year. More info below:

http://ym.adnet.ie/downloads/1339418623/Student_Grant_Scheme_2012.pdf

Regards
Shaz

AFAIK you can only get grants for your first degree.

shaz84

ciara84 wrote: »

AFAIK you can only get grants for your first degree.

Ciara, you may be right as I have not read the entire document, but I did specifically ask if I would be entitled to a grant if I had completed a previous degree. I was told that you cant get a grant if the 2nd degree is at the same level, but you are apparently eligible if studying to a higher level. I asked what level a Bachelors was and they said 7. As my CAO offer states Graduate Entry Medicine is a Level 8 course I assume that I would be eligible?

Confused....

Biologic

shaz84 wrote: »

Ciara, you may be right as I have not read the entire document, but I did specifically ask if I would be entitled to a grant if I had completed a previous degree. I was told that you cant get a grant if the 2nd degree is at the same level, but you are apparently eligible if studying to a higher level. I asked what level a Bachelors was and they said 7. As my CAO offer states Graduate Entry Medicine is a Level 8 course I assume that I would be eligible?

Confused....

An ordinary level degree is level 7, an honours is level 8. To apply for GEM you need a level 8 so I assume that's what you have.
http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/images/FanDec2006.jpg

ciara84

shaz84 wrote: »

Ciara, you may be right as I have not read the entire document, but I did specifically ask if I would be entitled to a grant if I had completed a previous degree. I was told that you cant get a grant if the 2nd degree is at the same level, but you are apparently eligible if studying to a higher level. I asked what level a Bachelors was and they said 7. As my CAO offer states Graduate Entry Medicine is a Level 8 course I assume that I would be eligible?

Confused....

depends on how many credits you earned in your first degree... if you have an arts degree with 180 credits, or BEng, BSc, BComm etc with 240 credits then you're not eligible (pretty sure, this is the main requirement for a degree to be level 8, and the degree to be eligible for studying GEM)

shaz84

Ahh ok. Thanks for the clarification. Another dead end!

shaz84

Really helpful response from Ulster Bank. How does this even make sense?

Can anybody who has an offer from Limerick advise if there is a specific deal in place with the University and the Bank?

I have spoken to Mike in the Limerick branch in which he has advised me that the only branch doing medical loans at the moment is the University of Limerick branch. In order to apply for this loan you would need to be attending University of Limerick. Unfortunately there is no other branch doing medical loans within Ulster Bank. My apologies for this.

EngDoc

shaz84 wrote: »

Really helpful response from Ulster Bank. How does this even make sense?

Can anybody who has an offer from Limerick advise if there is a specific deal in place with the University and the Bank?

There's something bizarre going on with UB.
My local branch told me today that the most they could offer me was 15K (total).
When I gave them details about the loan in Limerick, they said they'd forward the query on to UB UL.

Sent an e-mail to UCD last week asking if they'd had any luck getting further info on loans. They never got back to me so I guess they're just tired of students asking the same questions, fair enough I suppose.

Can't really think of any other options at this stage.
Found myself glancing at full-time job offers on the net yesterday, maybe my subconscious has has accepted the inevitable! :P