Graduate medicine Loans

Agnieszka_88

Hey guys (and girls?),

I've been reading through this forum as I wanted to apply to RCSI/UCC in a year or two and I stubled on this topic. Did any of you get the loan situation resolved? Because what you write here is pretty worrying tbh, makes me rethink this whole medicine plan. There is absolutely no way I could manage the fees on my own, not to mention the cost of living. So yeah... any updates? Words of wisdom?

DoctorDre

Hi, just wondering what the story is with guarantors for these loans...do all banks ask for one? What qualifies someone as being able to act as a guarantor for someone? Do your parents need to own their home to be able to do this? Thanks for any replies

Nanorman

DoctorDre wrote: »

Hi, just wondering what the story is with guarantors for these loans...do all banks ask for one? What qualifies someone as being able to act as a guarantor for someone? Do your parents need to own their home to be able to do this? Thanks for any replies

Hey, I got my loan from BOI in the end, had to get a different guarantor though the second time. My guarantor was based solely on their earnings, not assets or collateral. It was also a big factor that my second guarantor was BOI (My parents and I were AIB). Something also that went against me was that I worked part-time after graduation for a year instead of going into a masters or work related to my degree. It hurt my chances, they want someone who can pay back the loan if needs be. You pretty much have to have a guarantor to get the loan.
AIB is a terrible loan as the interest is high and you must pay off the interest each year as it is not a GradMed loan. Must have a guarantor for that one. Since I am not UL I dont know much about the Ulster bank loan.
Hope this helps! Good luck with your exams

Eh Squire

Hey all,

I'd like some info from anyone who has it to hand if possible.

I'm looking for exactly what options are currently in place for graduate med loans for students of each college; RCSI, UCD, UL, UCC.
For each institution I'd like to know what banks are offering the loans, what branch specifically, what the total amount offered is and whether a guarantor is needed.

I've been asked to get this info by the faculty of one of the graduate med schools, the council of deans is currently looking into the funding issues for prospective students.
Even just a quick summary of what banks and branches are associated with each School would be enough, but any of the other info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Jammyc

Eh Squire wrote: »

Hey all,

I'd like some info from anyone who has it to hand if possible.

I'm looking for exactly what options are currently in place for graduate med loans for students of each college; RCSI, UCD, UL, UCC.
For each institution I'd like to know what banks are offering the loans, what branch specifically, what the total amount offered is and whether a guarantor is needed.

I've been asked to get this info by the faculty of one of the graduate med schools, the council of deans is currently looking into the funding issues for prospective students.
Even just a quick summary of what banks and branches are associated with each School would be enough, but any of the other info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Should the Deans not already know this? Personally Im disappointed with the level of attention given to finances by the GEM schools. They obviously know its a huge concern for most students but are severely lacking in their knowledge and interest in the area.

Agnieszka_88

Eh Squire wrote: »

Hey all,

I'd like some info from anyone who has it to hand if possible.

I'm looking for exactly what options are currently in place for graduate med loans for students of each college; RCSI, UCD, UL, UCC.
For each institution I'd like to know what banks are offering the loans, what branch specifically, what the total amount offered is and whether a guarantor is needed.

I've been asked to get this info by the faculty of one of the graduate med schools, the council of deans is currently looking into the funding issues for prospective students.
Even just a quick summary of what banks and branches are associated with each School would be enough, but any of the other info would be appreciated.

Thanks

UCC - Bank of Ireland (the campus branch)
UL - they have worked out a tailored package with the Ulster Bank, they also offer a scholarship
RCSI - Bank of Ireland, Saint Stephens Green Branch
UCD doesn't cooperate with any banks, they just don't seem to care

Please add/correct anything I might have missed or gotten wrong, the info comes from my notes. The loans mostly just cover the tuition fees (the UL package might be different), and I've heard you'll need a guarantor for pretty much all of them. But honestly, the loans are next to impossible to get if you aren't a client of the bank/haven't been living in Ireland who knows how many years before applying. No chance of getting one if you aren't Irish. Maybe it will change as the financial situation in Europe improves, but I honestly doubt it, a medical degree doesn't guarantee you a well-paid job like it used to.

Eh Squire

Thanks Agnieszka_88, I appreciate your helpful response

spagboll

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

UCC - Bank of Ireland (the campus branch)
UL - they have worked out a tailored package with the Ulster Bank, they also offer a scholarship
RCSI - Bank of Ireland, Saint Stephens Green Branch
UCD doesn't cooperate with any banks, they just don't seem to care

AIB in UCD have a good relationship with the UCD GEM students/program

the only way RCSI cooperate with the banks is by holding your legs while they bend you over the table

Abby19

Eh Squire wrote: »

Hey all,

I'd like some info from anyone who has it to hand if possible.

I'm looking for exactly what options are currently in place for graduate med loans for students of each college; RCSI, UCD, UL, UCC.
For each institution I'd like to know what banks are offering the loans, what branch specifically, what the total amount offered is and whether a guarantor is needed.

I've been asked to get this info by the faculty of one of the graduate med schools, the council of deans is currently looking into the funding issues for prospective students.
Even just a quick summary of what banks and branches are associated with each School would be enough, but any of the other info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Abby19 wrote: »

In case this is of use to anyone. For the Bank of Ireland Grad Med loans the relevant contact details of the branches linked to the various colleges are below.

I know offers aren't out yet, but in case this helps anyone. And if just making enquiries, these people should have the details to hand.

UCD - Carmel Blennerhassett - 01-2611352
UCC - Vivienne Cremin - 07662 42553
UL - Kelly Chamney - 07662 40824
RCSI (Stephens Green Branch, Brian) - 07662 31358

Here is some info on the BoI contacts. What their exact offering is I don't know - sorry.

Agnieszka_88

spagboll wrote: »

AIB in UCD have a good relationship with the UCD GEM students/program

the only way RCSI cooperate with the banks is by holding your legs while they bend you over the table

That's good to know, thanks! I've heard similar things about RCSI (honestly, they have the highest fees of them all, that alone says something).

housemd

Where did you hear of graduates defaulting
on their loans? Do you know that to be a fact?

bill buchanan wrote: »

I guess the bank doesn't know his parents' track record. Not saying it's right or wrong, but I suppose they'd feel a lot more comfortable giving a loan like this to people who's record they know.

Remember, there are junior docs defaulting on these loans right now, so the chances of the guarantor being called into play are increasing.

pc11

I spoke with a rep from Ulster Bank at UL last week. She said they are certainly still doing packages but only for fees. She says it's pretty much automatic to be approved unless you have an awful credit history. The repayment schedule was complex and I didn't take it all in but it was generous. You have up to 15 years from graduation to repay and the time in college it's interest-only I think and the interest rate is low. She told me that they didn't require a guarantor and that they viewed grad med students as a good risk long-term.

She said there was a possibility that next year they would have a second package for living expenses only (~10k per year) but it wasn't certain yet. If it comes in it you can only get a fees package OR the living package and not both.

I hope to speak to someone about RCSI/UCD loans soon. I have a good score already from the UK GAMSAT in September that will guarantee me entry to anywhere, so I'm hoping they will talk to me this early.

The Head of School in UL also said that the colleges are working together to try to come up with a solution for funding with the banks and government. He seemed optimistic, but best to keep expectations low I think.

Agnieszka_88

pc11 wrote: »

The Head of School in UL also said that the colleges are working together to try to come up with a solution for funding with the banks and government. He seemed optimistic, but best to keep expectations low I think.

It would be great if they managed to work something out. I don't mind having to repay 100k after I graduate if it means I can become a doctor, but at this point no one but the overseas students can afford to study GEM.

The UL has always been the most thoughtful about this kind of thing, my only fear is that the Dublin colleges won't care that much and all will stay as it is. Which would be good for the UL, I guess, their application rates and GAMSAT cut-offs would rise.

Sitric

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

It would be great if they managed to work something out. I don't mind having to repay 100k after I graduate if it means I can become a doctor, but at this point no one but the overseas students can afford to study GEM.

The UL has always been the most thoughtful about this kind of thing, my only fear is that the Dublin colleges won't care that much and all will stay as it is. Which would be good for the UL, I guess, their application rates and GAMSAT cut-offs would rise.

I'm afraid that if things continue getting worse, only the overseas students will be able to afford to pay back a loan like this.

shaz84

Hi - Im a GEM1 at UCD. Has anyone from a univeristy other than UL managed to get a loan from Ulster Bank this year? Thanks.

Arterialspray

Reading this thread, I'm glad I went to the UK to study.

just-joe

Any updates here? Have many people secured loans for fees and/or expenses for GEM courses this year?

Cheers!!

nerrad01

shaz84 wrote: »

Hi - Im a GEM1 at UCD. Has anyone from a univeristy other than UL managed to get a loan from Ulster Bank this year? Thanks.

Hi Shaz, i think there has been a lot of confusion regarding the ulster bank loan, ulster bank only ever offered the loan to UL students and this hasnt changed according to the bank manager at UL.

I think people thought they had withdrawn loans from other colleges, but it was simply a case of never offering the loans in the first place.

shaz84

nerrad01 wrote: »

Hi Shaz, i think there has been a lot of confusion regarding the ulster bank loan, ulster bank only ever offered the loan to UL students and this hasnt changed according to the bank manager at UL.

I think people thought they had withdrawn loans from other colleges, but it was simply a case of never offering the loans in the first place.

Interesting, I really would like to get to the bottom of this UB loan mystery, as UCD recently advised us that they do have an arrangement with the local UB branch. Not that the branch knows anything about it...!

nerrad01

shaz84 wrote: »

Interesting, I really would like to get to the bottom of this UB loan mystery, as UCD recently advised us that they do have an arrangement with the local UB branch. Not that the branch knows anything about it...!

Hi Shaz, yea according to the manager it was a case of UL being the only one that actually negotiated with them and got an arrangement in place, think the other colleges just relied on aib and boi. But im pretty sure it was regional decision for the UL branch to offer loans to UL students and not a central thing.
(although they would have had to get approval from the head office so i cant see why the other branches couldn't also do it??)

yellow hen

shaz84 wrote: »

Interesting, I really would like to get to the bottom of this UB loan mystery, as UCD recently advised us that they do have an arrangement with the local UB branch. Not that the branch knows anything about it...!

..

pc11

nerrad01 wrote: »

Hi Shaz, yea according to the manager it was a case of UL being the only one that actually negotiated with them and got an arrangement in place, think the other colleges just relied on aib and boi. But im pretty sure it was regional decision for the UL branch to offer loans to UL students and not a central thing.
(although they would have had to get approval from the head office so i cant see why the other branches couldn't also do it??)

This was also my understanding from UB, that only UL asked them, basically. It does seem crazy that they will give a loan to students in UL but not the same students elsewhere. The only thing I can think is that if students asked UB en masse to consider it, it seems illogical they would not conisder it if they got enough requests.

Jammyc

With this info coming out, do people reckon that there might be more options this coming August?

nerrad01

Jammyc wrote: »

With this info coming out, do people reckon that there might be more options this coming August?

i dont think so tbh! id say it will be fees only for the coming year too, the risk is too big to the banks....repayments from a doctor aint a sure thing anymore, due to the ever decreasing intern salary, lack of guaranteed intern spot and then the potential cut to nchd salaries and non payment of overtime.(the gravy train is well and truly over) [to give you an idea i have a friend who worked 350 hours as a junior doctor last month, her after tax salary worked out at €10 per hour...some food for thought]

To be honest im surprised UB are even still giving out unsecured loans never mind an amount that a junior doc would find practically impossible to meet the repayments on! (the living and expenses).

Personally im going to be barely able to pay back a fees only loan as an intern, ive no idea how people with the full loan will do it....living on bread and water for the next few years i think!

pc11

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

The HSE have cut salaries for new entrants.

Interns (1st year post graduation) are now paid €30,257.

Here is the link to HSE salary scales:-

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/salary_scales_new_entrant2011.pdf

There is no guarantee of being offered an intern position. There is a competitive national application and matching process run by the HSE.

Sorry iif it's a dumb question, but where are the other junior doctor grades on that document? Eg SHO, registrar etc? I'm trying to get the scales for those levels. Were they cut at the same time or is the 2010 scale still relevant?

j.mcdrmd

pc11 wrote: »

Sorry iif it's a dumb question, but where are the other junior doctor grades on that document? Eg SHO, registrar etc? I'm trying to get the scales for those levels. Were they cut at the same time or is the 2010 scale still relevant?

I remember looking for that very info, at the time, I couldn't find it either.

So as those figures are for grades which had salary changes I assumed that the other grades were unchanged. Meaning that the 2010 figures applied. http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/Payscalesjan2010.pdf

I have not actively searched recently but have not come across anything to the contrary so far.

pc11

I found something that seems to agree with that, so I think that's correct.

Another question: these are scales for hospital doctors. As far as I can see, the same scales apple to trainee GPs - but can someone confirm?

Can anyone give more detail on the likely earnings each year for trainee GP? I.e. base salary + extras?

Do trainee GPs work the same insane hours that hospital docs do?

I understand that GP training is 4 years, with 2 hospital-based and 2 practice-based, right?

So, the process for GP is:

• graduate college
• 1 year as intern
• 2 years training in hospital
• 2 years training in practice
• then you're a GP (is you pass all exams etc) - is that right??

pc11

Abby19 wrote: »

Check the info from the revenue website and the citizen's advice bureau website (similar wording). If you read them they are ambiguous as to what can be claimed and by whom.

I know when I looked through it I rang my revenue office, explained my situation and asked if I paid €5k, and someone else paid the remainder, could that someone else claim tax relief also. I was told yes. And yes I did get tax back.

Whoever is claiming tax relief on your behalf may need to have a receipt to present to revenue. So they should get bank drafts/deposit slips showing they have paid the fees to support their claim. If the bank is paying fees directly, then I am not sure how this would work.

Tazzle managed to get the money from the bank and paid the college directly. If this can save you ~€2-3k in tax, I don't see why you cannot justify this to your bank.

It may even be possible to overpay the college in fees and get a refund if the bank won't oblige (but check with the college what are the overpayment policies, might be an idea not to mention it is just to claim tax back straight off).

See http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it31.html
This has changed slightly as the limit is now €7k.
'For the tax year 2007 and subsequent years, an individual can claim tax relief on fees paid for Third Level courses in respect of any individual as long as he or she has paid the qualifying fees.'
So if you divide up your fees and different people pay varying proportions, then why shouldn't they each be able to claim on their portion. I interpreted it as the limit was to do with the person paying the fees. There wasn't a limit in respect of for whom the fees were paid. This was the basis of my discussion with the revenue. It was over a phone call and not a written response.

Anybody claiming has to be earning enough money to be paying tax to claim it back though. So while it may make sense to claim for yourself in 1st year, chances are in subsequent years you may not earn enough over the summer to have paid enough tax to actually claim it back.

Has anyone actually managed to split the fees in 2 so as to claim the tax back on the full amount of fees (less the 2K deduction I presume)?

Did you get a receipt from the college credited to the 2 names so they could each claim? As you won't be working, the tax relief isn't much good to you, did you manage to get the tax relief for 2 people other than the student? Like both parents or a parent and a sibling?

Agnieszka_88

pc11 wrote: »

Has anyone actually managed to split the fees in 2 so as to claim the tax back on the full amount of fees (less the 2K deduction I presume)?

Did you get a receipt from the college credited to the 2 names so they could each claim? As you won't be working, the tax relief isn't much good to you, did you manage to get the tax relief for 2 people other than the student? Like both parents or a parent and a sibling?

Can't you kind of claim your tax relief backwards? I did it in Germany, I had to fill in a tax return every year, even though I was a full-time student and didn't earn that much. After I started working, I claimed those tax reliefs (up to 4 years backwards, I believe).
Shouldn't it be the same here, I mean, we're all in the EU, right?

pc11

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

Can't you kind of claim your tax relief backwards? I did it in Germany, I had to fill in a tax return every year, even though I was a full-time student and didn't earn that much. After I started working, I claimed those tax reliefs (up to 4 years backwards, I believe).
Shouldn't it be the same here, I mean, we're all in the EU, right?

I don't think so. It would be so helpful to spread it out, but I think that it is only within a particular year is all that's allowed.