Graduate medicine Loans

Jammyc

nomoreexams wrote: »

It's only available for gem if you currently hold a level 7 degree (ie and ordinary bachelors degree) and you'd now be upgrading, in a manner of words, to a level 8 course.

This doesn't make sense. See the CAO document on Application for Graduate Entry Medicine 2013.

Candidates must hold, or expect to hold by 1 July 2013, a minimum 2H1 (second class honours, grade one, or equivalent) result in their
first honours bachelor degree (NFQ Level 8).

Hypnos

nomoreexams wrote: »

It's only available for gem if you currently hold a level 7 degree (ie and ordinary bachelors degree) and you'd now be upgrading, in a manner of words, to a level 8 course.

You cannot under any circumstances enter GEM with a level 7 degree. Not only do you need a Level 8, but a 2.1 (Hons) Level 8 degree. It's been like that for a while now and hasn't changed. Why would anyone waste time then with then if they were set on doing GEM?

And having spoken to the local grant authorities a year ago with regards to the issue there is no way to get funding for GEM. Grants are only given out to your first degree and even if Level 7 was accepted that still counts as your first qualification.

nomoreexams

Sorry I meant a grant is only available to postgrads if the said postgrad holds a level 7. Obviously then it doesn't apply to gem when we require a level 8. I'm just trying to explain where the confusion arose for them to say that to WoolahUrma . I've spoken to them on 3 occasions and they don't seem to know that gem requires a level 8 so I'd imagine that's where the confusions arises from.

WoolahUrma

nomoreexams wrote: »

Sorry I meant a grant is only available to postgrads if the said postgrad holds a level 7. Obviously then it doesn't apply to gem when we require a level 8. I'm just trying to explain where the confusion arose for them to say that to WoolahUrma . I've spoken to them on 3 occasions and they don't seem to know that gem requires a level 8 so I'd imagine that's where the confusions arises from.

They recommended that I put an application through anyway. I couldn't believe my ears when I was told that I would be eligable for up to 6500 per anum so I rang back having consulted boards and as has been posted the level 8 is the problem. If I had not finished I would be eligable but then I would not be applying for gem.

Thanks for the feedback all the same

pc11

As we all know, Ulster Bank will only lend to UL GEM students, and not to GEMS in other colleges. This always seemed perverse to me so I've been on to UB in Dublin to ask if they could somehow match the deal so as to give another option to BOI. I'm sure some of you have had the same thought.

Well, they contacted the higher-ups and the answer is definitely not. It's crazy, but that's the way it is. It's BOI or nothing for UCD/RCSI/UCC (I'm ignoring the ridiculous AIB 'offer').

just-joe

pc11 wrote: »

Well, they contacted the higher-ups and the answer is definitely not. It's crazy, but that's the way it is. It's BOI or nothing for UCD/RCSI/UCC (I'm ignoring the ridiculous AIB 'offer').

What is that offer?

Hypnos

just-joe wrote: »

What is that offer?

It's just like a regular loan. Crippling interest and repayment terms for a student.

pc11

just-joe wrote: »

What is that offer?

You should have your research done!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84722355

nomoreexams

Perhaps a moderator could move that loan conversation into this thread since it would be the more appropriate thread?

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

Perhaps a moderator could move that loan conversation into this thread since it would be the more appropriate thread?

I think we gave up on trying to organise threads here...

just-joe

pc11 wrote: »

You should have your research done!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84722355

Sorry for being lazy!

nomoreexams

I know a guarantor isn't essential but is useful, I just don't have that option. I've spoken to the bank but obviously they can't say yes or no until August when I accept an offer and put in an official application. I was wondering is it the norm to get a loan without a guarantor or are most of you planning on securing the loan with a guarantor?

Hypnos

I spoke to BOI. They said that if you've been employed long term in your history you would be ok without one, but if you're just coming out of college like me, it's quite necessary. I have one just in case anything goes sour.

shaz84

Ok, I met with BOI the other day to see what options are available for non-Irish residents or if don't fulfill their 10 year requirements. They do offer a "Save to Borrow" regular saver account, which might help if you are able to work part time during the first two years. The purpose of this product is to improve the credit score of the applicant and enables them to take out a loan of up to 5x the value of the savings. No guarantor required. So, if you are able to put down 350 EUR per month for the next 12 months, you could have a 21,000 EUR loan from BOI to pay for a year's tuition in year's 3/4 plus something toward living expenses. You cant miss a month or it will impact on your credit rating as you have an agreement to pay an agreed amount on a regular basis. They will restructure the loan for interest only repayment during the period of study, capital is re-paid following completion of studies. 5 year term to repay. Might not help many on here, but for someone in my situation something like this is a big help, hope it helps others stuck for options. EDIT: APR is 9%

Abby19

nomoreexams wrote: »

I know a guarantor isn't essential but is useful, I just don't have that option. I've spoken to the bank but obviously they can't say yes or no until August when I accept an offer and put in an official application. I was wondering is it the norm to get a loan without a guarantor or are most of you planning on securing the loan with a guarantor?

Hypnos wrote: »

I spoke to BOI. They said that if you've been employed long term in your history you would be ok without one, but if you're just coming out of college like me, it's quite necessary. I have one just in case anything goes sour.

This may not help, but may put some of the difficulties people are having into context.

There is a lot in the press lately about working conditions in Ireland and how mobile the medical workforce is, medics emigrating for better training/money/working conditions/etc., along with proposed pay cuts in Croke Park2/Haddington Road deal and shorter working hours if the HSE _ever_ implement EWTD. That and developers popping over to the UK and discharging bankruptcy of many millions within 12 months. I know of someone who is looking into the ramifications of doing FY in the UK and applying for bankruptcy over there. So as Hypnos said above, unless you have a long history in Ireland (and probably some ties here that make them think you might stay and repay it here) they will look for a guarantor. That way if someone does a bunk they have someone they can chase after.

nsa75

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/med-school-for-graduates-1.1413498

I think a lot of recent GEM graduates would share similar views.

nomoreexams

He hit the nail on the head. He's certainly verbalised my concerns and fears.

diverboy83

Providence - I was going to set up a new thread (which I will tomorrow), but might as well get views now too. I'm prepared to organise a campaign to get the Minister for Education and the Minister for Health to address the issue of access to funding for the GEM programme. However, such a campaign needs to have a critical mass of GEM applicants and current GEM students in order to be effective; a one-person crusade would achieve very little. The ideal solution would be for a re-classification of GEM as a Level 9 course. However, this will incur a cost to the State and is not realistic. We would have to come up with a solution that is cost-neutral. One way of achieving this would be for the Department of Education/Health to establish a loan scheme which would fund the tuition fees and living expenses at a discounted interest rate and which would be re-payable on a graduated scale i.e. the more you earn, the more you pay. This would mean that GEM students would have access to the financing they would need, without incurring a cost to the State and for the State to earn a modest return for their investment.

Thoughts?

nomoreexams

I'm on board. Like you say, it's a numbers game; the more people that get behind it the more serious we will be taken. To the best of my knowledge (i could be wrong) the nhs offer a similar scheme to what you're suggesting so it wouldn't be an unreasonable request!

Hypnos

diverboy83 wrote: »

Providence - I was going to set up a new thread (which I will tomorrow), but might as well get views now too. I'm prepared to organise a campaign to get the Minister for Education and the Minister for Health to address the issue of access to funding for the GEM programme. However, such a campaign needs to have a critical mass of GEM applicants and current GEM students in order to be effective; a one-person crusade would achieve very little. The ideal solution would be for a re-classification of GEM as a Level 9 course. However, this will incur a cost to the State and is not realistic. We would have to come up with a solution that is cost-neutral. One way of achieving this would be for the Department of Education/Health to establish a loan scheme which would fund the tuition fees and living expenses at a discounted interest rate and which would be re-payable on a graduated scale i.e. the more you earn, the more you pay. This would mean that GEM students would have access to the financing they would need, without incurring a cost to the State and for the State to earn a modest return for their investment.

Thoughts?

It would be a great thing to have but I'm pessimistic about the whole thing. There are just not enough of us to get something to change. What makes it worse is that the general public doesn't even seem to be on our side based on some of the absurd comments I see at the end of newspaper articles. I feel like it's a hopeless battle. The only thing that will cause change is when the current system causes so much stress and emigration in this profession which inevitably will lead to a collapse and crisis. People in this country (especially politicians) are not good a dealing with problems until it's already too late. The history of this place is a testament to that

I think your proposition is a great idea and I'll be more than happy to participate but I don't know if we can do anything about it. Sure a protest of 40,000 students on the street couldn't stop the fees from rising. Anyways great idea's and I'm more than happy to be part.

nsa75

I agree that this is something that needs to be done but unfortunately I too wouldn't be in any way confident about a positive outcome. Each year for the last 2 years a mini uprising like this has been mooted and gone on to either fizzle out or fall on deaf ears when the relevant parties are approached. The gov contribution to GEM will not increase in the short to medium term. The terms of loans will also not improve in the short to medium term. If anything, things will continue to disimprove unfortunately.

The article attached above by the recent UCC graduate echoes the opinion of many of this years graduates - it would simply be a too difficult for many to do GEM under the current financial conditions when everything is taken into account. I feel a significnat amount of those who started in 2009, if asked, would be much less inclined to start medicine today if the opportunity presented itself after getting a sufficient GAMSAT score. I know opinions like this are difficult to hear after the elation and relief of attaining scores that give you the chance of pursuing a lifelong dream but the harsh realites today are too great to ignore unfortunately.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

I know a guarantor isn't essential but is useful, I just don't have that option. I've spoken to the bank but obviously they can't say yes or no until August when I accept an offer and put in an official application. I was wondering is it the norm to get a loan without a guarantor or are most of you planning on securing the loan with a guarantor?

Boi told me that the vast majority are asked for a guarantor. It is unusual to not need one. I'm hoping to get away without one as I have a long work history and some other favourable factors, but I'm not confident and I would hate to have to find a guarantor.

I'm assuming that if I can get away without a guarantor, I'll need to get life assurance, which is an extra expense to budget for.

To the suggestion that people might leave the country and not repay the loan, you'll **** it up for everyone else if you do this. If the banks suspect this they may pull the loans altogether, and may do so very suddenly.

pc11

nsa75 wrote: »

I agree that this is something that needs to be done but unfortunately I too wouldn't be in any way confident about a positive outcome. Each year for the last 2 years a mini uprising like this has been mooted and gone on to either fizzle out or fall on deaf ears when the relevant parties are approached. The gov contribution to GEM will not increase in the short to medium term. The terms of loans will also not improve in the short to medium term. If anything, things will continue to disimprove unfortunately.

The article attached above by the recent UCC graduate echoes the opinion of many of this years graduates - it would simply be a too difficult for many to do GEM under the current financial conditions when everything is taken into account. I feel a significnat amount of those who started in 2009, if asked, would be much less inclined to start medicine today if the opportunity presented itself after getting a sufficient GAMSAT score. I know opinions like this are difficult to hear after the elation and relief of attaining scores that give you the chance of pursuing a lifelong dream but the harsh realites today are too great to ignore unfortunately.

I've been planning to talk to my local politicians and I'll back this effort, but I'm also pessimistic, unfortunately, and I highly doubt anything could be done for this year, it's way too late.

Has anyone talked to their TD?

nomoreexams

Yeah I've emailed a few. I did hear back from one, who asked me my address and that was the last I heard from him so it doesn't look good. It's definitely too late for this year but it is a 4 year course.

diverboy83

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056967957

diverboy83

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/med-school-for-graduates-1.1413498

Just if anyone missed this letter...

just-joe

Morning all. Just thought I'd bump this thread to ask if anyone has heard of any changes for the loan situation?

I went to the RCSI open day a while ago and it seems BOI will loan the fees all right. But no one is willing to loan for living expenses at all. With the price of rent and living expenses too, this is making it feel more impossible to do GEM. Is anyone else in a similar situation?

diverboy83

No bank will lend for the living expenses and it is unlikely to change. If it's any consolation, almost everyone who took out those 100k loans back in the day has regretted it; the repayments are crippling.

nomoreexams

Also BOI loan don't cover the full fees for RCSI. RCSI charge just under €17k per year- the loan only covers €15k per year. Last year when RCSI were trying to convince me to pick them they were claiming that they were trying to reduce fees. Don't know what the chances are of that happening.

just-joe

Yeah, I would rather not get a loan for the whole lot, but if it was the only option.. But as you say it isn't even an option, which may be a good thing. But then I'd be left unable to do it.

Are there any threads on doing grad med in the uk? It seems like it would be cheaper to do it there, but I have no idea how difficult it would be to get in?