Graduate medicine Loans

diverboy83

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/graduate_entry_medicine_-_a_guide

The interview and work experience requirements make it more competitive. Also, as far as I can recall, non-UK residents are not entitled to apply for a student loan for the living expenses but you can for tuition fees; I could be wrong.

Savings and getting some work along the way are how I plan on doing it.

Jammyc

Its also important to note that the BOI loan does not cover any fee increases over the course of the 4 years and that any increases in fees must be met by the student themselves.

diverboy83

I started this last year to try and put pressure on the Unis, Dept. of Health, Dept. of Education etc to do something about this funding shortfall.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056967957

nomoreexams

Did you ever hear back from anyone? I wrote to local politicians and never heard anything back.

diverboy83

I heard back from both my local TDs; one put a Parliamentary Question down, but got the same answer as always. You can see the mentality from the Department of Education here:

http://www.kildarestreet.com/search/?s=Graduate+Entry+Medicine

The Unis stonewalled me on this too. They don't want to know (even though students have had to drop out because of finance issues). The students themselves also don't want to know - they are the ones best placed to put pressure on the system, but I couldn't get any of the MedSocs in any of the Unis to engage with me. Massively frustrating.

I also wrote to the health and education correspondents of all the major papers, with little joy (even though apparently Susan Mitchell looked into the issue).

nomoreexams

Typical really isn't it. I cant imagine the medsoc being too helpful with that type of thing, I think their priorities lie in nights out. I didn't know people had to drop out for financial reasons though - that's quite scary!

diverboy83

To be honest, I only heard it anecdotally but it wouldn't surprise me. It's not the fees, per say, as you don't start paying them back until year five, but funding yourself for four years can be hard going. Trying to remember how I did it the first time around!

letsdothis

nomoreexams wrote: »

Also BOI loan don't cover the full fees for RCSI. RCSI charge just under €17k per year- the loan only covers €15k per year. Last year when RCSI were trying to convince me to pick them they were claiming that they were trying to reduce fees. Don't know what the chances are of that happening.

diverboy83 wrote: »

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/graduate_entry_medicine_-_a_guide

The interview and work experience requirements make it more competitive. Also, as far as I can recall, non-UK residents are not entitled to apply for a student loan for the living expenses but you can for tuition fees; I could be wrong.

Savings and getting some work along the way are how I plan on doing it.

UK is much more competitive. I was invited to interview at St. George's this year and the cut off was 60 for interview. They interview 300 for 100 places and this year the places are being cut for grad med there in favour of direct entry because the Med school gets 5/6 years of fees per entrant as opposed to 4.

Non-UK residents can only get the loan for fees, as you say. Fees as £9000 a year and depending on the location of the Med school, the NHS contributes towards the fees in some years. I for one would be willing to sign a guarantee of working X years here post GEM if exchange for a fee subsidy. It's something that the government should really consider.

beardedmaster

Folks - any idea if you can get a loan to cover 2-3 years of fees instead of the full 4 years worth, and pay the fees upfront for the other year(s)?

letsdothis

beardedmaster wrote: »

Folks - any idea if you can get a loan to cover 2-3 years of fees instead of the full 4 years worth, and pay the fees upfront for the other year(s)?

According to the RCSI admissions officer, this should be possible but you'd need to check with BOI. I intend to do this but haven't had the chance yet. For UL, I spoke with the Ulster Bank staff member in charge of GEM loans and she said you can draw down whatever you like.

Jammyc

beardedmaster wrote: »

Folks - any idea if you can get a loan to cover 2-3 years of fees instead of the full 4 years worth, and pay the fees upfront for the other year(s)?

A friend of mine did that this year with BOI UCD.

beardedmaster

Cheers folks.

IrishSkyBoxer

anyone who gets a loan is f**ked long term.

you will never be able to pay 100k back working as a doctor in Ireland.

This reality of course doesn't hit people until they are too deep and sold too far into the lie.

It's as bad as online gambling, just numbers on a screen, doesn't become reality until debt collectors come knocking.

try paying over 100k at 7.5% interest back on a net salary of 25k as an intern. might be ok if you never intend on having a family, house, kids, a life outside of work. Otherwise it will be a noose around your neck.

diverboy83

It's 60k max, they don't offer the 100k anymore. Intern pay is 30,257 (that's 2,076 net per month; loan repayments are approximately 700 per month). Then jumps to 38, 839 and goes up to 54, 746 on the SHO scale. The registrar scale is 50,578 to 60,305. Also, whilst the Working Time Directive is largely going to reduce overtime for Junior Doctors, it will not eliminate it completely.

I don't think anybody on this thread is suggesting that this move is going to result in sweeping financial gains and, if you read the past posts, most people acknowledge the difficulty of the loan repayments but that the rewards of the job far outweigh this (everyone I have spoken to who took out the 100k and are now practicing doctors love their jobs, wouldn't want to do anything else but wish they didn't have quite so much debt). It would be foolish not to be aware that it will be a significant challenge, but it's not as catastrophic as you make out. Everyone should do their own research thoroughly, weigh up all the facts and then make an informed decision.

If you have particular personal experience which you think will be of interest to this thread, then please share it but scaremongering messages are not helpful, in particular when they are loaded with incorrect information.

IrishSkyBoxer

diverboy83 wrote: »

It's 60k max, they don't offer the 100k anymore. Intern pay is 30,257 (that's 2,076 net per month; loan repayments are approximately 700 per month). Then jumps to 38, 839 and goes up to 54, 746 on the SHO scale. The registrar scale is 50,578 to 60,305. Also, whilst the Working Time Directive is largely going to reduce overtime for Junior Doctors, it will not eliminate it completely.

I don't think anybody on this thread is suggesting that this move is going to result in sweeping financial gains and, if you read the past posts, most people acknowledge the difficulty of the loan repayments but that the rewards of the job far outweigh this (everyone I have spoken to who took out the 100k and are now practicing doctors love their jobs, wouldn't want to do anything else but wish they didn't have quite so much debt). It would be foolish not to be aware that it will be a significant challenge, but it's not as catastrophic as you make out. Everyone should do their own research thoroughly, weigh up all the facts and then make an informed decision.

If you have particular personal experience which you think will be of interest to this thread, then please share it but scaremongering messages are not helpful, in particular when they are loaded with incorrect information.

come on, those numbers are a little more than raw. once you get above 32k 50% is going to the tax man.

even a 60k loan is going to end up being a lot more than 60k.

you need to be an SHO for a fair few years to get to the 54 mark too.

How much do you think it costs to live in dublin, run a car, feed yourself etc?
You'll have very little change left to knock off your loan unless you're living at subsistence level.

Out of interest, how many people did you speak to who took out the 100k loan and now love their jobs? Very few doctors in this country love their job, almost all of the ones I personally know have described the job and the debt burden as being nothing short of a living hell.

I'm not scaremongering, people in this thread have the blinkers on and posts like yours that say 'it'll be tough for a few years but it will be grand after that and the job is exactly as portrayed on grey's anatomy' are only giving people a false sense of security.

nomoreexams

I have to agree with Diverboy. We all know how tough it is; that being said, the loan is managable. I know from my class there's no one in it who thinks they're going into an episode of Grey's Anatony. Students are scared and worried but we've all done our research and heard feedback. I've spoken to quite a few GEM's who are currently paying back their loans and although they're not flush, they're not on the poverty line. Of course NCHD's aren't happy with the working time conditions but they don't hate their job over all from what I've heard. I've yet to meet any face to face who've told me they wish they hadn't done the course. What stage are you at now? How are you paying back your loan? Is your knowledge first hand?

IrishSkyBoxer

nomoreexams wrote: »

I have to agree with Diverboy. We all know how tough it is; that being said, the loan is managable. I know from my class there's no one in it who thinks they're going into an episode of Grey's Anatony. Students are scared and worried but we've all done our research and heard feedback. I've spoken to quite a few GEM's who are currently paying back their loans and although they're not flush, they're not on the poverty line. Of course NCHD's aren't happy with the working time conditions but they don't hate their job over all from what I've heard. I've yet to meet any face to face who've told me they wish they hadn't done the course. What stage are you at now? How are you paying back your loan? Is your knowledge first hand?

What stage are you at now? Final Year
How are you paying back your loan? Emigrating to do residency in the US, a system where big loans are able to be paid back by big financial rewards.
Is your knowledge first hand? Yes, from discussions with peers in the years above me who have begun paying back the loan.

nomoreexams

I think it's really unfortunate that you only seem to have contact with people that are in a living hell. I think you're right that people need to be realistic about the downsides but being balanced I don't think it's all bad from what I've heard from peers. I find it interesting that you've heard people not being able to afford the repayments, that's the first I've heard of it being that bad- in saying that the 100k repayments are no doubt more than the 60k repayments?!?

I'm not hiding my head in the sand, I definitely want to know the bad as well as the good, but there is a huge amount of negativity on these forums. I think you've proved the point that as bad as things are here, there is the option to go abroad where conditions are slightly better. I don't doubt that a majority of my class will have to travel to make decent money, I suppose I don't view that as a bad thing though.

diverboy83

IrishSkyBoxer wrote: »

come on, those numbers are a little more than raw. once you get above 32k 50% is going to the tax man.

even a 60k loan is going to end up being a lot more than 60k.

you need to be an SHO for a fair few years to get to the 54 mark too.

How much do you think it costs to live in dublin, run a car, feed yourself etc?
You'll have very little change left to knock off your loan unless you're living at subsistence level.

Out of interest, how many people did you speak to who took out the 100k loan and now love their jobs? Very few doctors in this country love their job, almost all of the ones I personally know have described the job and the debt burden as being nothing short of a living hell.

I'm not scaremongering, people in this thread have the blinkers on and posts like yours that say 'it'll be tough for a few years but it will be grand after that and the job is exactly as portrayed on grey's anatomy' are only giving people a false sense of security.

Ah now, I never said that it will be tough for a few years and then it will get better. I also never said anything about the working conditions. This thread is about prospective GEMs, for which the 100k is not an option. It needs to be about the facts that apply to us.

I've acknowledged the difficulty of paying such a large sum back on relatively low income, and for the 14year period of the loan. I will be leaving a very well paid job to do this. There are no illusions here.

I'll give it to you that I don't have a large sample of GEMs to survey, but each of the three I spoke with said the same thing: they love their job and while the debt is tough, it's manageable.

You seem to be very negative about the entire experience - between the working conditions and the loan. Why did you decide to do GEM? (that's a genuine question, not a challenge).

eire_245

came across this thread which makes interesting reading! scary thoughts for the folks with the full loan! imagine trying to live on €900 per month during intern :eek:...may aswell be on the dole

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=180602

usersame

Lads it's not that bad, interns gross 40-50, some do even better. Don't worry! I'm not going to respond to any replies, couldn't be bothered, but just wanted to reassure people who may be in debt already and anxious. From what I've read here a lot of people are talking nonsense and clearly aren't working doctors.

usersame

IrishSkyBoxer wrote: »

What stage are you at now? Final Year
How are you paying back your loan? Emigrating to do residency in the US, a system where big loans are able to be paid back by big financial rewards.
Is your knowledge first hand? Yes, from discussions with peers in the years above me who have begun paying back the loan.

What residency did you get? Internal med?

eire_245

usersame wrote: »

Lads it's not that bad, interns gross 40-50, some do even better. Don't worry! I'm not going to respond to any replies, couldn't be bothered, but just wanted to reassure people who may be in debt already and anxious. From what I've read here a lot of people are talking nonsense and clearly aren't working doctors.

how much overtime would that be with username?? that very encouraging to hear as we are nearly bombarded with negative stories!

MathsMedMixed

If someone has say 25 to 30 grand saved up albeit in a number of financial institutions, will that guarantee at least 60 grand loan for med school? Understandably, nothing is guaranteed, but can some one give me any info? Thanks.

nerrad01

MathsMedMixed wrote: »

If someone has say 25 to 30 grand saved up albeit in a number of financial institutions, will that guarantee at least 60 grand loan for med school? Understandably, nothing is guaranteed, but can some one give me any info? Thanks.

think theres a lot of variables involved and ultimately would be the decision of the underwriters!

but having that much saved will certainly help the case if your trying to get the loan from BOI without a guarantor (which im not sure they even do) and then Ulster bank give fees loans without a guarantor relatively easy to UL students

MathsMedMixed

nerrad01 wrote: »

think theres a lot of variables involved and ultimately would be the decision of the underwriters!

but having that much saved will certainly help the case if your trying to get the loan from BOI without a guarantor (which im not sure they even do) and then Ulster bank give fees loans without a guarantor relatively easy to UL students

I am a BOI customer and don't have a guarantor. Why can UL students get loans easily? Stories like this
http://corkindependent.com/20130321/news/trapped-by-debt-cork-doctor-considered-suicide-over-loan-S61735.html
give me little hope. :mad:

nerrad01

MathsMedMixed wrote: »

I am a BOI customer and don't have a guarantor. Why can UL students get loans easily? Stories like this
http://corkindependent.com/20130321/news/trapped-by-debt-cork-doctor-considered-suicide-over-loan-S61735.html
give me little hope. :mad:

Ulster bank only provide loans to UL students....so UL students have 2 options a loan with BOI (with a guarantor) or a loan with UB (without guarantor)....as opposed to the other colleges which are stuck with BOI

MathsMedMixed

nerrad01 wrote: »

Ulster bank only provide loans to UL students....so UL students have 2 options a loan with BOI (with a guarantor) or a loan with UB (without guarantor)....as opposed to the other colleges which are stuck with BOI

Like you said there are variables, but surely it doesn't include one having an account with UB to get a loan from them.

pharmacrunch

Would any GEM's/ recent GEM graduates be willing to post regarding the day to day costs while on this loan-or pm?

For instance are their any GEM interns here- how much do you actually come out with at the end of the month to live off?

Where are you based? Dublin / Cork or elsewhere?

What kind of hours do you do to justify this wage?

It would be great to get some solid facts i.e. I pay back X amount for my GEM loan each month and I am left with Y amount to live off.

I think my biggest doubt about this course is the funding - having little to no savings at the moment.

Thanks,

pharma

Russellynx

diverboy83 wrote: »

It's 60k max, they don't offer the 100k anymore.

60k would barely cover fees, probably won't with inflation. what are you going to live on for 4 years? you'll be graduating with 100k debt, either to your granny or to the bank.

that's 2,076 net per month

that's ~2000 gross per month. Minus 700 loan repayment (or 1000 like most people) and then minus rent then minus living.

after everything is said and done i'm working off the same thing people on job seekers are.