Graduate medicine Loans

CramCycle

dissed doc wrote: »

No. Whatever you hear right now, is complete horse sh1t.

By the time you graduate, you will make 2-3k net per month for around 6-8 years. Consultant salaries will be around 5k net per month (i.e., around 20% less than they are now).

Where are you getting this from?

Annaroberts22

Hi guys, sorry to be slightly off topic here but do any of you know whether having had a UK student loan (government loan not a private bank loan) for your BSc would affect getting a GEM loan in ireland?

gos123

I am in the same position. I have a loan from my undergrad BSc in the UK. I would think that it is not going to be a problem as our student finance england loan repayment is more of a graduate tax than a loan. The Irish System is completely different, and I mentioned mine to the AIB Bank Manager, and she seemed to say it should be OK as it is a government loan (not bank). Of course, the thing to make sure you mention to them is that this loan is government, not bank, and that it is wiped 10-15 years after living out of the UK. Just make it really clear that you can only pay it back if you are working in the UK, and that it is only paid as a tax (even though it is not a tax) it will come out your PAYE if you earn a certain amount, and that if you stay in Ireland, it will be wiped by the UK government, oh and that all UK students have it (well most).

gos123

Does anyone have the number for the Branch of AIB that deals with UCC? I had been going through Castletroy AIB for Limerick, but, have been given an offer for UCC, so need to check with the UCC branch of AIB that they are OK to give to a UK student like Castletroy, and that the whole Student Finance England Loan thing is going to be OK! Thanks :-)

Annaroberts22

gos123 wrote: »

I am in the same position. I have a loan from my undergrad BSc in the UK. I would think that it is not going to be a problem as our student finance england loan repayment is more of a graduate tax than a loan. The Irish System is completely different, and I mentioned mine to the AIB Bank Manager, and she seemed to say it should be OK as it is a government loan (not bank). Of course, the thing to make sure you mention to them is that this loan is government, not bank, and that it is wiped 10-15 years after living out of the UK. Just make it really clear that you can only pay it back if you are working in the UK, and that it is only paid as a tax (even though it is not a tax) it will come out your PAYE if you earn a certain amount, and that if you stay in Ireland, it will be wiped by the UK government, oh and that all UK students have it (well most).

But according to the gov website we still have to make payments even if we live abroad as long as our income is above the threshold. You have to declare to the student loans people that you're moving abroad and also how much you're gonna be earning :-(

Can I ask if you're a british or irish citizen? I was a bit worried about whether this matters in getting the loan? How have you found the whole application process compared to the UK? I would be very grateful if you let me know what final response you get from the irish banks. Thanks!!!

gos123

Hi,

I am British. I am filling out the loan form when I get to Ireland. Marie from AIB Castletroy seemed to think it would be OK since I have used a credit card and paid it off each month, and then have had savings etc. She still wants me to send her details of how the loan works though. I have already begun to pay some of mine back from working before my MSc, so I suppose at least I can demonstrate I have been able to start paying it back. Still my student loan still exceeds my savings so is why I am a little worried! I will let you know the final answer, but I won't know myself till I have started lectures and am enrolled. I really hope it is OK, otherwise I am going to be unable to afford the course as well!

gos123

It might be worth reading this, I am taking a copy to the bank just to make it clear that loan repayments are only collected through the the UK tax system (unless you pay it off outright in a cash sum) and that you are under no obligation to pay if off completely if you fail to earn the money to do so....therefore you could argue it more as a graduate tax rather than a loan like a bank loan works :-)

gos123

gos123 wrote: »

It might be worth reading this, I am taking a copy to the bank just to make it clear that loan repayments are only collected through the the UK tax system (unless you pay it off outright in a cash sum) and that you are under no obligation to pay if off completely if you fail to earn the money to do so....therefore you could argue it more as a graduate tax rather than a loan like a bank loan works :-)

and the link! http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@educ/documents/digitalasset/dg_183899.pdf

gos123

and remember we would not be earning when we are studying, and then the monthly repayment of £344 if you stay in Ireland to do an intern is not that much either, interest is currently low at 0.5%. I cannot find the wiping the loan thing by default after a certain amount of time. I know it still exists but they don't seem to be advertising it around the websites for now!

gos123

Forgot to add, the Threshold for loan repayments in Ireland is £21,000 / year (GBP not euros)

gos123

Sorry for bombarding this. Don't think what I wrote was clear. THe monthly rate is the amount you earn in a month that is the threshold, so you would pay 9% of all earnings you make above that amount back to the UK Government.

CramCycle

gos123 wrote: »

Hi,

I am British. I am filling out the loan form when I get to Ireland. Marie from AIB Castletroy seemed to think it would be OK since I have used a credit card and paid it off each month, and then have had savings etc. She still wants me to send her details of how the loan works though. I have already begun to pay some of mine back from working before my MSc, so I suppose at least I can demonstrate I have been able to start paying it back. Still my student loan still exceeds my savings so is why I am a little worried! I will let you know the final answer, but I won't know myself till I have started lectures and am enrolled. I really hope it is OK, otherwise I am going to be unable to afford the course as well!

Could you get another student loan over in England? Surely the interest would be lower than here? or is it a one time thing?

SpiderP

hurdygurdy85 wrote: »

Did you meet with them in the branch? I'm meeting with one of the loan staff in AIB UCD tomorrow and I hope to god they don't quote 2-3 weeks to approve the loan. :eek: I was under the impression that lots of people consolidate loans into the new loan agreement (I was told that by AIB last year) and that it wasn't that unusual. Maybe its just power tactics/bad day at the office or maybe they're just quoting the longest possible waiting time to cover themslelves. 2-3 weeks is insane.

Also, Im pretty sure the GEM courses don't offer deferrals. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I applied for one with UL last year with pretty valid extenuating circumstances and it was flatly refused. I doubt UCD is any different, but they might be.

Get in early as possible to sort out loan quickly. I'm in UCD, they don't bother chasing after you for fees for some time as they know there are a lot of hoops to jump through for most people vis a vis the loan. I had approval quite early on and paid a third of the fees to UCD around October (this is the minimum required payment), I then paid the remainder of fees in the Spring when they sent me a reminder. I figured by doing this you would be amassing less interest on the drawn down amount. Bottom line is they're not going to refuse to let you register if you haven't paid the fees. There were people in my class who were only getting their loan sorted in November. Bummer if you're stuck on living expenses but not a problem with regards to fees.

As for the deferral, with regards to UCD, they do let a very limited number of people defer the place before they start although they'll tell you it's only allowed in extenuating circumstances. Once we had started a number of people deferred for different reasons but there was no problem doing it. The school office is quite sound when it comes to stuff like this. Not having a your loan sorted is a silly reason to defer unless you're really scrogged for cash for expenses, in which case I can understand your dilemma!

gos123

CramCycle wrote: »

Could you get another student loan over in England? Surely the interest would be lower than here? or is it a one time thing?

We cannot, the government have pulled all funding to study in ROI from Student Finance England (I don't know about Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland as I don't live in those regions), which is a pain as ROI is the only EU country we cannot study in with financial assistance! There is also a rule that you can only get up to 4 years tuition fees. I have had 3 for my BSc, and the maximum they would give is the current UK maximum which is about £3,280 fees and a similar amount for Maintenance. We are allowed unlimited applications for maintenance but with funding being pulled for ROI, we (I) can't get anything for that. I have approached all of the UK Banks, and none would give me anything, despite by credit history not having a mark on it, and being assured of a job after, they said I would need an income whilst taking the loan out, or a property! That Bank of Ireland or Ulster Bank will not give a loan due to not having previously lived in ROI means that we have to solely rely on AIB.

Annaroberts22

gos123 wrote: »

Hi,

I am British. I am filling out the loan form when I get to Ireland. Marie from AIB Castletroy seemed to think it would be OK since I have used a credit card and paid it off each month, and then have had savings etc. She still wants me to send her details of how the loan works though. I have already begun to pay some of mine back from working before my MSc, so I suppose at least I can demonstrate I have been able to start paying it back. Still my student loan still exceeds my savings so is why I am a little worried! I will let you know the final answer, but I won't know myself till I have started lectures and am enrolled. I really hope it is OK, otherwise I am going to be unable to afford the course as well!

Hopefully we are worrying for nothing as I'm sure there are other brits on these grad entry courses in Ireland and most brits do have student loans. I have even heard that AIB sometimes merges other existing small loans like a car loan into the big loan so it was really a first to read on the other forum that someone had been refused due to having another loan from AIB but that might have to do with the amount maybe.

By the way, Ulster bank don't have a residency in ireland requirement, none that they told me about anyway, however they are only giving enough loans to cover the fees and no living expenses and I don't think the interest rates are as good as AIB. Were you specifically told by Ulster that you need to have lived in Ireland?

Also, if you don't mind my asking, did you apply to UK med schools as well?

gos123

Hey. Ulster Bank told me I would need to go through RBS in this country, which I did, and RBS gave me nothing with the whole British Bank thing that they never want to give loans out unless you have property, good salary etc.

I did apply for unis in the UK. Only ended up with a reserve offer from Swansea (3rd time in a row). I met someone at GAMSAT in september who said I should apply to Ireland as there is financial assistance and stuff, so I applied to Ireland on the off-chance and got 3 offers....after having applied four times in the UK!

Hopefully it is going to be OK for both of us. I know people in Canada have commented they rely on government loans back home on top of the Irish Banks to pay their fees so hopefully that means it is going to be OK for us. Where are you going to in Ireland? I am going for either Cork or Limerick, although I have already accepted that latter as I got an offer from Limerick in Round 0 and only got the offers from Cork and UCD on Friday.

Annaroberts22

gos123 wrote: »

Hey. Ulster Bank told me I would need to go through RBS in this country, which I did, and RBS gave me nothing with the whole British Bank thing that they never want to give loans out unless you have property, good salary etc.

I did apply for unis in the UK. Only ended up with a reserve offer from Swansea (3rd time in a row). I met someone at GAMSAT in september who said I should apply to Ireland as there is financial assistance and stuff, so I applied to Ireland on the off-chance and got 3 offers....after having applied four times in the UK!

Hopefully it is going to be OK for both of us. I know people in Canada have commented they rely on government loans back home on top of the Irish Banks to pay their fees so hopefully that means it is going to be OK for us. Where are you going to in Ireland? I am going for either Cork or Limerick, although I have already accepted that latter as I got an offer from Limerick in Round 0 and only got the offers from Cork and UCD on Friday.

How odd! Ulster (limerick branch) told me they are cool about giving the loan to UK students but that from this year it's a fees only loan and no living expenses are given which really sucks!

I'm hoping to apply for 2012 entry so not quite sure about the order of preferences, I was thinking of going to Ireland for a few days and getting an idea of the cities and unis. I hear really good things about Cork's medical program and the hospital attached to them and Cork is certainly cheaper to live in than Dublin.

I'm sorry to hear about your UK unis thing, it sucks to have to apply so many times. The competition is just ridiculous, they need to create more places. The NHS can certainly do with more doctors. Did you do the UKCAT as well for the UK ones? The annoying thing in the UK is even if you ace UKCAT and GAMSAT, they only get you an interview and then you still have to compete with 3-4 others, sometimes more for the actual place. Did you interview anywhere else other than swansea?

melanie87

gos123 wrote: »

Hey. Ulster Bank told me I would need to go through RBS in this country, which I did, and RBS gave me nothing with the whole British Bank thing that they never want to give loans out unless you have property, good salary etc.

I did apply for unis in the UK. Only ended up with a reserve offer from Swansea (3rd time in a row). I met someone at GAMSAT in september who said I should apply to Ireland as there is financial assistance and stuff, so I applied to Ireland on the off-chance and got 3 offers....after having applied four times in the UK!

Hopefully it is going to be OK for both of us. I know people in Canada have commented they rely on government loans back home on top of the Irish Banks to pay their fees so hopefully that means it is going to be OK for us. Where are you going to in Ireland? I am going for either Cork or Limerick, although I have already accepted that latter as I got an offer from Limerick in Round 0 and only got the offers from Cork and UCD on Friday.

Bit off the point....but I was wondering what gamsat score you applied with? Im not being nosey I just want to know how far the cut offs have come down?

gos123

Hi, I did apply for UKCAT unis as well. This year I did apply for only one graduate entry course and three 5-year courses. I would strongly recommend NOT to apply for 5-year programs. The argument many people make of you having more chance of getting in is rubbish since you are only allowed to have your application compared amongst other graduate applicants. My UKCAT score was 590-900-900-670. I did not get short-listed for any UKCAT unis, although this is due to my academic reasons, mainly BSMS since my mark in my undergrad degree was 68% and their cut-off last year was 69%. I have only ever been interviewed by Swansea, and each year they have said it was my GAMSAT that meant I did not get in....mark was 56-69-49 which is odd seeing I am a BSc of Biomed and MSc of Human Neuroscience! I do know that the Irish March 2011 GAMSAT exam was insanely difficult compared to previous ones, and the results on average were considerably lower than previous years, but yeah, I would er caution on applying to some the GAMSAT UK unis, especialy Nottingham as their cut-off for interview was something insane like 76 this year. St Georges was 60. Swansea only use GAMSAT after interview, and decide interview attendees solely on the personal statement and reference, and at least a 2,1 in the undergrad degree. Remember Cork and RCSI give places to the highest GAMSAT scoring applicants, and then the other two have a lottery draw once the threshold score is met (if memory serves right, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one!) I know generally my weakness in applying to UK unis were my A-Levels, even the ones that don't use them still do to some extent if they are not happy with the chemistry content of your degree...I had ABDD (french, bio, chem and maths), and even though I was really ill when doing them, none of them would take it into consideration, so I was all ready to redo A-Levels this year! Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I would advise to read through the exact admissions criteria for each UK uni as there are so many hoops to jump through, and also to pay the admissions fee for Ireland as it really seems to have worked for me!

Annaroberts22

gos123 wrote: »

Hi, I did apply for UKCAT unis as well. This year I did apply for only one graduate entry course and three 5-year courses. I would strongly recommend NOT to apply for 5-year programs. The argument many people make of you having more chance of getting in is rubbish since you are only allowed to have your application compared amongst other graduate applicants. My UKCAT score was 590-900-900-670. I did not get short-listed for any UKCAT unis, although this is due to my academic reasons, mainly BSMS since my mark in my undergrad degree was 68% and their cut-off last year was 69%. I have only ever been interviewed by Swansea, and each year they have said it was my GAMSAT that meant I did not get in....mark was 56-69-49 which is odd seeing I am a BSc of Biomed and MSc of Human Neuroscience! I do know that the Irish March 2011 GAMSAT exam was insanely difficult compared to previous ones, and the results on average were considerably lower than previous years, but yeah, I would er caution on applying to some the GAMSAT UK unis, especialy Nottingham as their cut-off for interview was something insane like 76 this year. St Georges was 60. Swansea only use GAMSAT after interview, and decide interview attendees solely on the personal statement and reference, and at least a 2,1 in the undergrad degree. Remember Cork and RCSI give places to the highest GAMSAT scoring applicants, and then the other two have a lottery draw once the threshold score is met (if memory serves right, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one!) I know generally my weakness in applying to UK unis were my A-Levels, even the ones that don't use them still do to some extent if they are not happy with the chemistry content of your degree...I had ABDD (french, bio, chem and maths), and even though I was really ill when doing them, none of them would take it into consideration, so I was all ready to redo A-Levels this year! Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I would advise to read through the exact admissions criteria for each UK uni as there are so many hoops to jump through, and also to pay the admissions fee for Ireland as it really seems to have worked for me!

Yeah I know what you mean regarding the 5 year courses, they're not an easy way in by any means. BSMS sets a cutoff of 69% for your degree, that's a bit mean! Nottingham's cutoff was only 61, the highest in the uk was 64 from peninsula. Your UKCAT is very impressive, maybe somewhere like Barts or King's or warwick would have given you an interview since they don't care about A levels?? I don't know, it's all so secretive and complicated! Ireland is great from what I've read, at the end of the day you get the same degree and it is accepted everywhere in the world including the UK so makes no difference whatsoever really whether you did it in the UK or Ireland. Plus Swansea is still not accredited by the US so if anything it's better you're doing Ireland if you decide to move to the states in the future.

By the way, I forgot to ask, did you apply to St George's this cycle or in a previous cycle? Just wondering what your opinion of the uni is.

quebec

Hey I'm waiting on a call back from AIB but maybe someone here might know. I'll be looking to take out a loan to pay for just the fees, nothing for living expenses, but if I were in a position to pay for the fees for year 3 and 4, would I be able to take a loan out for just the first 2 years. I know the loan is reviewed each year and they don't give the next installment til they have proof of you passing the previous year. I heard somewhere that the minimum you can take out is 53k, or thereabouts. Can anyone clarify this?

bubbleking

quebec wrote: »

Hey I'm waiting on a call back from AIB but maybe someone here might know. I'll be looking to take out a loan to pay for just the fees, nothing for living expenses, but if I were in a position to pay for the fees for year 3 and 4, would I be able to take a loan out for just the first 2 years. I know the loan is reviewed each year and they don't give the next installment til they have proof of you passing the previous year. I heard somewhere that the minimum you can take out is 53k, or thereabouts. Can anyone clarify this?

hey I asked this when I was in the bank - as In I didnt think I would need the full 100k. Now Im not sure what the minimum is but I was told I could get approved for a 100k loan and just draw down on what I need with no penalty for not using all of the loan

heybert

bubbleking wrote: »

hey I asked this when I was in the bank - as In I didnt think I would need the full 100k. Now Im not sure what the minimum is but I was told I could get approved for a 100k loan and just draw down on what I need with no penalty for not using all of the loan

I was also told this by the people in Castletroy branch. In fact, she encouraged me to take as little a possible bearing the repayments required.

drrkpd

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbleking
hey I asked this when I was in the bank - as In I didnt think I would need the full 100k. Now Im not sure what the minimum is but I was told I could get approved for a 100k loan and just draw down on what I need with no penalty for not using all of the loan

heybert wrote: »

I was also told this by the people in Castletroy branch. In fact, she encouraged me to take as little a possible bearing the repayments required.

These are scary scary amounts of money to take on as debt!! Any new public sector employee (and that includes doctors)salaries are reduced by 10% FOR THE WHOLE OF YOUR CAREER compared to present people in post. Consultant net salaries are high and still new consultants will be over 5K net but 1. it takes several years to become a consultant and 2. you have to live as well as pay back these debts. You will have no chance of buying a house (if anyone wants to these days) but as you get older you may get partners and children!!
The whole thrust of hse policy is to reduce the pay of all doctors and they are already reducing junior doctors hours to save money.
100K would scare the living daylights out of me!!

So as well as asking will any bank lend me this money also seriously ask CAN I PAY IT BACK????!!!

heybert

drrkpd wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbleking
hey I asked this when I was in the bank - as In I didnt think I would need the full 100k. Now Im not sure what the minimum is but I was told I could get approved for a 100k loan and just draw down on what I need with no penalty for not using all of the loan



These are scary scary amounts of money to take on as debt!! Any new public sector employee (and that includes doctors)salaries are reduced by 10% FOR THE WHOLE OF YOUR CAREER compared to present people in post. Consultant net salaries are high and still new consultants will be over 5K net but 1. it takes several years to become a consultant and 2. you have to live as well as pay back these debts. You will have no chance of buying a house (if anyone wants to these days) but as you get older you may get partners and children!!
The whole thrust of hse policy is to reduce the pay of all doctors and they are already reducing junior doctors hours to save money.
100K would scare the living daylights out of me!!

So as well as asking will any bank lend me this money also seriously ask CAN I PAY IT BACK????!!!

Very fair point.

But I think that many potential medical students are very much in the dark about the realistic wages that are to be expected in the first few years post graduation. Finding the basic wage is easy but the confusion begins with some hospitals paying overtime, others not and the mention of the european working time directive confuses the hell out of me. From what I can gather some are adhering to it and other aren't but I am unsure how this changes the final wage.

Any experienced input would be appreciated.

quebec

Has anyone tried to strike a deal where you pay off the interest each year that you're in college?

dissed doc

drrkpd wrote: »

Quote:
These are scary scary amounts of money to take on as debt!! Any new public sector employee (and that includes doctors)salaries are reduced by 10% FOR THE WHOLE OF YOUR CAREER compared to present people in post. Consultant net salaries are high and still new consultants will be over 5K net but 1. it takes several years to become a consultant and 2. you have to live as well as pay back these debts. You will have no chance of buying a house (if anyone wants to these days) but as you get older you may get partners and children!!
The whole thrust of hse policy is to reduce the pay of all doctors and they are already reducing junior doctors hours to save money.
100K would scare the living daylights out of me!!

So as well as asking will any bank lend me this money also seriously ask CAN I PAY IT BACK????!!!

I've mentioned this several times, and I don't think the implications of this level of debt really has gotten into people's heads. Borrowing this much money is a *bad* thing. If you must borrow, borrow 20k and go to a central or western european university. A new medical student with 70k+ of debt from this sept.

A 70k loan, over 10 years, at 4% interest, costs just over €1000 per month, assuming you start paying it back immediately. Net salary of a €40k/year SHO on the second point is €2300/month. You are *seven years* from that salary from when you start your borrowing when you start university.

What the hell are you guys thinking you can pay this back? Why are you doing this? It's complete madness. AFter you graduate, your loan payment will be exactly 50% of your net income as an intern. At best, expect a 20% overtime on top of that, if anything. The HSe opt-outs won't go on forever, like the NHS. Yes, they will curtail services before increasing staffing.

Sid_Justice

the debt is going to be carried for life, merged with mortgages.

imported_guy

dissed doc wrote: »

I've mentioned this several times, and I don't think the implications of this level of debt really has gotten into people's heads. Borrowing this much money is a *bad* thing. If you must borrow, borrow 20k and go to a central or western european university. A new medical student with 70k+ of debt from this sept.

A 70k loan, over 10 years, at 4% interest, costs just over €1000 per month, assuming you start paying it back immediately. Net salary of a €40k/year SHO on the second point is €2300/month. You are *seven years* from that salary from when you start your borrowing when you start university.

What the hell are you guys thinking you can pay this back? Why are you doing this? It's complete madness. AFter you graduate, your loan payment will be exactly 50% of your net income as an intern. At best, expect a 20% overtime on top of that, if anything. The HSe opt-outs won't go on forever, like the NHS. Yes, they will curtail services before increasing staffing.

lol this, its like america realistically expecting to pay back its soon-to-be 17 trillion debt.

del85

imported_guy wrote: »

lol this, its like america realistically expecting to pay back its soon-to-be 17 trillion debt.

60 grand (fees only) loan, borrowed for four years, after which every penny earned in intern year will go towards paying it off. Half the debt should be paid back by the time I get my full registration; the other half will be the equivalent of a car loan.

Nothing unrealistic about that. I want to be a doctor.