Are these Kerrymen for real?

sam34

Discodog wrote: »

Taking the piss on expenses, better known as stealing our money gets the support of the Kerry people..

it's not stealing if it is expenses someone is entitled to claim. legally, thats not stealing. morally and ethically it's not necessarily right, but it is not a criminal offence.

Discodog wrote: »

Demanding a hospital at the expense of the rest of the country gets the support of the Kerry people..

of course, no other people in the country, who live far from regional hospitals and in areas with poor public transport, ever tried to hold on to local hospital services. those inconsiderate kerry people, dont they realise that teh good people of dublin deserve a hospital more than them :rolleyes:

Discodog wrote: »

50 people supported the criminal but that is more than those that have spoken out in Listowel to support the victim...

really? have you kept a tally of all those who wrote into newspapers and rang various local and national shows, and posted on various internet boards?

Discodog wrote: »

Every one of the 50 should be banned by the town & given the message that they are not welcome. I have not heard one representative of Listowel daring to speak out. Are they cowards as well ?....

banned by the town? using what legislation? on what legal grounds? those that supported him have not committed a crime. i am not condoning what they or he did, i find it reprehensible, but still these 50 supporters are not criminals themselves.

carchaeologist

^all perfectly reasonable points there.

mike kelly

His appeal is still pending remember

superhooper

Have any politicians from that neck of the woods showed some leadership and voiced their contempt of the hand shakers??

cyning

mike kelly wrote: »

His appeal is still pending remember

And seen as there is plenty of cctv backing her up I won't be holding my breath. Thank god. He is guilty and this has been proven in a court of law.

iguana

superhooper wrote: »

Have any politicians from that neck of the woods showed some leadership and voiced their contempt of the hand shakers??

They don't intend to, from the independent this morning:
"There's two sides involved here. A lot of us know both sides. No matter what you say, you're going to be losing," one Kerry councillor said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/sex-attack-man-bids-to-overturn-conviction-1983240.html

superhooper

iguana wrote: »

They don't intend to, from the independent this morning:
"There's two sides involved here. A lot of us know both sides. No matter what you say, you're going to be losing," one Kerry councillor said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/sex-attack-man-bids-to-overturn-conviction-1983240.html

The big loser would seem to be the respect that Politian’s have for the judicial system. They much prefer mob rule. It gets the votes and saves you having to stand up for the weak. It also means you don’t have to show leadership.

seaniemammy

I would ask people to reserve judgement on the people of Listowel until after the appeal. You may be surprised at the information which comes out. I am not from LIstowel but live there. I have no connection with either party.

cyning

seaniemammy wrote: »

I would ask people to reserve judgement on the people of Listowel until after the appeal. You may be surprised at the information which comes out. I am not from LIstowel but live there. I have no connection with either party.

I live in Listowel and have heard nothing that would convince me of that.He was given a FAIR trial and convicted by a jury. I am not convinced by your last assertion either. You are (and I don't know wether you mean to or not) defending someone who sexually assaulted someone. I don't know either person either, nor do I want to. But a public show of support for a convicted sexual offender is a disgrace.

Raiser

seaniemammy wrote: »

I would ask people to reserve judgement on the people of Listowel until after the appeal. You may be surprised at the information which comes out. I am not from LIstowel but live there. I have no connection with either party.

I have absolutely no doubt that their is a rumour circulating through Listowel and surrounds that somehow incredibly justifies* the purposeful intoxication, clandestine conveyance, extensive bruising, bodily scraping, undressing garments and underwear and generally "hunching over" a comatose young Woman in the back corner of a dark car park with your penis at the ready......

- So what are you trying to say? Was she Church of Ireland or was it some other detail you just didn't take to :mad:

* Justification to the Backwards Fools, the Weak, the Inbred, the Sick , the Cave-people, the Church and ever other useless Fcuk that ever drew a raspy little Maggots breath.

Discodog

sam34 wrote: »

it's not stealing if it is expenses someone is entitled to claim. legally, thats not stealing. morally and ethically it's not necessarily right, but it is not a criminal offence.

of course, no other people in the country, who live far from regional hospitals and in areas with poor public transport, ever tried to hold on to local hospital services. those inconsiderate kerry people, dont they realise that teh good people of dublin deserve a hospital more than them :rolleyes:

really? have you kept a tally of all those who wrote into newspapers and rang various local and national shows, and posted on various internet boards?

banned by the town? using what legislation? on what legal grounds? those that supported him have not committed a crime. i am not condoning what they or he did, i find it reprehensible, but still these 50 supporters are not criminals themselves.

So OD did something immoral & unethical but he will be voted back in. That says a lot for local "morals". What do you mean by "necessarily right" ?.

OK so why don't we rule the Country with a system where every TD only supports the government if he gets a local new hospital or school ?. The over emphasis on local issues at the expense of national policy is one of the reasons that Ireland is in such a mess.

There is a world of difference between publicly shaking the hand of an offender & phoning or posting anonymously. The people of Listowel have made no public display. They have shown no courage in facing down the 50.

Irish society has a long history of "shunning". The real reason why the 50 will feel no local disapproval is either because they have a lot of local support or because people are too scared to act. The community either support the 50 or the poor girl.

The Listowel website has "10 good reasons to live in Listowel"

"10.Listowel is uniquely peaceful with a vibrant community spirit and free from serious crime."

seaniemammy

The description of Kerry people I have seen over the last weeks bear no resemblance to those I have met.
The ones I have encountered are the gentleman who offered me , a total stranger, the use of his car when I tentatively knocked on his door to ask for water for my radiator as he would not countenance the thought of a woman stranded alone. They are the people who have made me and my family feel more welcome and at home than I heve ever felt anywhere.
They have invited us everywhere, introduced us to everyone.
As to an urban rural or poor and wealthy divide, the people I have heard express the most scepticism about the case have been women from the woman's own estate. If these people distrust someone they at least firmly believe that they have good reason. The small town, urban rural, rich poor, mysoginist image makes a better story though

ToniTuddle

seaniemammy wrote: »

the people I have heard express the most scepticism about the case have been women from the woman's own estate. If these people distrust someone they at least firmly believe that they have good reason. The small town, urban rural, rich poor, mysoginist image makes a better story though

It doesn't matter if she is or isn't trustworthy.
What the people of Kerry(or anyone in this country) who doesn't believe the woman ....all they need to do is open their eyes.

There was CCTV FOOTAGE.

There is NO escaping that.

It doesn't matter what that woman has done in her life.

NOBODY deserves to be sexually assaulted.

seaniemammy

Nowhere did I say that anyone deserves to be sexually assaulted.
If however, and I repeat if a person has proven themselves extremely untrustworthy in the past, then they can hardly expect ready acceptance of their version of an event.
There is cctv footage only of the woman leaving the club arm in arm with the man and being carried to the car park. Everything after that I am prepared to wait for the appeal to sift through and see if any of the rumours are true, if any credence can be given to the man's version.
Then I will make a decision about my opinion

Discodog

seaniemammy wrote: »

If however, and I repeat if a person has proven themselves extremely untrustworthy in the past, then they can hardly expect ready acceptance of their version of an event.

That is a serious allegation. I would remind you that the convicted man changed his story.

seaniemammy

It is not an allegation at all, which is why I said "if" twice. I know that he changed his story. As it happens I am very much leaning towards the woman's version, with a tiny bit of an open mind, which is after all the reason for an appeals system is it not? To be sure to be sure! Otherwise we would just be going through the motions

iguana

seaniemammy wrote: »

It is not an allegation at all, which is why I said "if" twice. I know that he changed his story. As it happens I am very much leaning towards the woman's version, with a tiny bit of an open mind, which is after all the reason for an appeals system is it not? To be sure to be sure! Otherwise we would just be going through the motions

Seeing as how the woman's version of the story is backed up by Gardaí witnesses, forensic medical evidence and CCTV footage she could have a history of telling as many lies as Pinocchio. Her story is backed up by evidence, his has been proven to be lies.

ToniTuddle

seaniemammy wrote: »

If however, and I repeat if a person has proven themselves extremely untrustworthy in the past, then they can hardly expect ready acceptance of their version of an event.
There is cctv footage only of the woman leaving the club arm in arm with the man and being carried to the car park. Everything after that I am prepared to wait for the appeal to sift through and see if any of the rumours are true, if any credence can be given to the man's version.
Then I will make a decision about my opinion

If they have been untrustworthy in the past...like.. spreading rumours, not paying back a €50 loan from a mate or some other simple stuff....? That type of carry on you mean?

You are listening to rumours in a town and letting it factor into your opinion.
All the evidence was there. It would be a different story if there was no hard evidence I can understand that....but there was all various forms of evidence!

Gardai statements clearly tell how they found him over the woman with his private parts out and her completely out of it.

The convicted man also completely LIED to the Gardai then changed his story when the CCTV footage appeared.

The fact he has the cheek to look for an appeal is shocking.

iguana

ToniTuddle wrote: »

The fact he has the cheek to look for an appeal is shocking.

I'm not sure if he will be able to appeal the verdict. Right to appeal is only granted when there is some real reason to believe the trial was unjust. This was an open and shut case so he may be denied the right to appeal his conviction.

What is more likely to happen is that he will appeal the sentence. This means that he accepts the guilty verdict but wants the length of the sentence shortened. The whole idea that there will be another trial with new evidence which only came to light in the last 3 weeks, despite the fact that the assault happened 18 months ago is nonsense. Tbh, I'm very suspicious about the fact that there have been quite a few new posters claiming to be party to some special knowledge which would make us think twice if we knew it.

ToniTuddle

iguana wrote: »

I'm not sure if he will be able to appeal the verdict. Right to appeal is only granted when there is some real reason to believe the trial was unjust. This was an open and shut case so he may be denied the right to appeal his conviction.

What is more likely to happen is that he will appeal the sentence. This means that he accepts the guilty verdict but wants the length of the sentence shortened. The whole idea that there will be another trial with new evidence which only came to light in the last 3 weeks, despite the fact that the assault happened 18 months ago is nonsense. Tbh, I'm very suspicious about the fact that there have been quite a few new posters claiming to be party to some special knowledge which would make us think twice if we knew it.

I know there are many girls out there who have cried rape/sexual assault in the past and it never happened. Sure even a female Garda a few months back did it!
I can understand why alot of people would be like "woah...let's wait and see before we blame the lad". That's all fair and perfectly understandable.
To be fair I guess we shouldn't believe either side until all the evidence is out.

But because he has been convicted which such strong evidence I don't see how anyone can believe it isn't true. They must be in complete denial.

The people who are coming on and talking about possible "new evidence" that was never brought to light and will now be in the appeal...in my view is utter nonsense. But that's just my view. Others can believe it if they want, that's their choice.

oeb

From Diocese of Kerry

Statement from Bishop of Kerry Bill Murphy
The Bishop of Kerry wishes to disassociate himself and the Diocese from the actions and statements made by Fr. Seán Sheehy in relation to the sentencing of a man convicted of sexual assault.
Fr. Sheehy is retired from an American diocese and is substituting for the Parish Priest of Castlegregory, Fr. Tadhg ó Dochartaigh, who is recuperating from illness.
I wish to offer my sympathy to the victim and to apologise to her on my own behalf and on behalf of the Diocese of Kerry. I pay tribute to her courage. I hope what has happened will not undermine the progress that has been made in bringing perpetrators of sexual abuse to justice.

Rev. Kitchen

1 thing that has struck me is that the sex offenders girlfriend seems to be sticking up for him. Most right minded women would have nothing to do with a bloke that was caught having sex with another woman never mind one that did something this disturbing.

Another thing that struck me is why is a priests opinion even entertained in a court of law ?

Sometimes this country really makes me wonder. Those messages of support for him and threatening the victim to watch out is really worrying.

killman

I am from listowel and will be proud of my hometown forever no matter what kind of rubbish i see on this forum and in national media.There are an awful lot of il-informed people on this thread who are just assuming particular parts of this weird story. I am well informed by many of my friends about what is going on in this story however i will not post my personal opinion on this forum as someone has been convicted of a crime and it is there responsibility to be truthful to themselves and the courts if there is an appeal.
So please do not judge the locals of listowel who are being assumed to be some sort of animals according to ignorant uninformed eejits in dublin and other places where people feel they have some superiority over the rest of normal everyday people in rural ireland.
Finally i will finish by just informing you that there is more to this story which has happened in previous years and has failed to materialise into proper truthful stories. Money is the root of all evil!!!!

seanybiker

killman wrote: »

.
Finally i will finish by just informing you that there is more to this story which has happened in previous years and has failed to materialise into proper truthful stories. Money is the root of all evil!!!!

I know there is more.Me brother works down there, told me about ........ stuff in the past.
Was bad of the people to come up and shake me mans hand though in all fairness.

killman

seanybiker wrote: »

I know there is more.Me brother works down there, told me about ........ stuff in the past.
Was bad of the people to come up and shake me mans hand though in all fairness.

i know it was wrong place at the wrong time, they were more sympathetic with the accused mother than anything else. Moreover most of these people arent even from listowel but neighbouring parishes.

Im not tryin to defend anybody here just to tell some ignorant people who have posted here that they should fully inform themselves of all the facts prior to making extremely harsh comments with no basis.

ToniTuddle

killman wrote: »

iIm not tryin to defend anybody here just to tell some ignorant people who have posted here that they should fully inform themselves of all the facts prior to making extremely harsh comments with no basis.

What exact facts should people be informed about?

I'm sure there are many fine people in the town. In fact I'm sure there are plenty of fine people in the town.
The only reason some people on this forum and people in the media/rest of the country are up in arms....is because nobody is saying anything.

The people of the town KNOW that the country is disgusted with these 50 men going up and shaking the hand/embracing a convicted sexual offender. Yet they do nothing. They don't stand up and have the courage to support the victim.
EVEN though the evidence is there.
Probably because they afraid they will end up with the same treatment as the victim is currently getting.
Being shunned by the local community.

That is why so many people are reacting in such a manner to this case.
It seriously touches nerves.

seaniemammy

People are just chhosing to make a big dramatic story of Listowel being a backwater, stuck in the dark ages. The Dublin 4 media type are delighted with this slant, especially in the light of the priest's intervention, coinciding with the Murphy report etc. No matter how may times people are told there is more to the story, which I really hope will come out in the appeal, they have their own views about a town they know nothing about. People cannot discuss the story in full until and unless the facts are proven in court.

ToniTuddle

seaniemammy wrote: »

People cannot discuss the story in full until and unless the facts are proven in court.

They have been proven in court.

seaniemammy

By the way, the man's current fiancee was not his girlfriend at the time of the incident

seaniemammy

So you know the full story then yes?