Looking for a DSLR, at around the €500 price range

the_syco

Hi all,
Yes, it's me again. Since that last thread, I've gone to a beginners camera course and read up on the bits that make cameras good. I still haven't gotten my head around the image sensor part, other than that if it's big, the MP can be smaller, but the picture will be better.

I'll be going for a DSLR. Had looked into getting a bridge camera, but as I won't be ablt to upgrade it at a later date (would be eyeing up a fish eye lense for easier panorama shots), that idea went out the window.

One of the main things that I'd be looking for is a camera that takes AA batteries. I accept that many of the rechargeable batteries in the newer cameras have a great life, but as a) I usually forget to recharge things b) I often find that when I need it, rechargeable things die quickly, as I've used it since I last recharged it, etc, I'm going with the AA option. Also, if and when I go travelling, it's easier to get 4 AA's, then to find a plug socket, and wait a while for it to charge: the good weather won't wait until I recharge

As most cameras around the price range of €500 (give or take a hundred) have the same lense, it'll be a given that it'll have the standard 18-55mm lense, I'm wondering is there much of a price difference between Nikon and Canon for zoom lense, or are they roughly the same price?

I appreciate MP isn't and all, but would like at least 8MP, but as I've said, I've yet to get my head around the image sensor, so if anyone knows a site that explains it, I'd be gratefull.

As for what I'd be shooting, it'd be mainly landscapes, and old buildings.

Checked out Conns, and they had the Canon EOS 1000D @ €560, Nikon D3000 also @ €560 and Gunns had the Canon EOS 1000D for just over €500 so they look like the cameras in my price range. In saying that, if a certain camera cost another €50, going slightly outside my price range, but was better than those I was looking at, I'd look into it. I'll take online shops into account if they are vastly cheaper, but if I'm only making a small saving, I'll buy locally, out of convenience, and also it'd be easier getting it fixed if it breaks. Oh, and I won't look at pixmania, no matter how cheap they sell the camera at.

Cheers for any helpfull insight.

CabanSail

I do not know of any of the DSLR Bodies that take AA Batteries. I know that with the Nikons you can fit AA Batteries into the Battery Grips (I assume other makes will be similar) but this is an optional accessory. I would suggest that you just buy some spare batteries (the generic ones from reputatable suppliers are good & cheap) and learn to manage them properly.

The Sensor issues are not really that complex. The critical factor is Pixel Density. The more pixels you try to put into an area the higher the density. Compact Cameras have physically smaller sensor and there is only so much light to go around. When the light gets low it can lead to noise. The same number of pixels on a larger sensor will have less noise as each pixel is physically larger.

If you want to use a very wide lens then a DSLR is for you. I am not sure a Fisheye is exactly what you want though, but I may be wrong.

duffarama

Pentax DSLR's take AA batteries, I'm fairly sure the K-M and the new K-X keep up that fine tradition.

lee_

AA batteries! nonono

you can just buy extra batteries generic ones on the net pretty cheap and have a few charged up.

Id go for this, the canon 450D, there is a newer model with hd video (500d) but it is more expensive and do you need it? you may find it on the net cheaper than this..

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/735885/art/canon/eos-450d-ef-s-18-55-is-le.html

There is also a cheaper Canon 1000d but it has less features and the build quality is not as good.

DBIreland

Argos are selling the Canon 450D with the 18-55 kit lens for 550 euro at the moment.

Hoping to pick get it myself this weekend.

Doesn't take AA bateries though.

the_syco

CabanSail wrote: »

If you want to use a very wide lens then a DSLR is for you. I am not sure a Fisheye is exactly what you want though, but I may be wrong.

Aye. Would be looking at taking panoramas like in abandonedireland.com which a fish eye would come in handy. For example, this took 107 or so shots (with a point&shoot camera) to make up, whilst with a fisheye I'd say I could take a 3rd of the shots to get the same effect, maybe less.

duffarama wrote: »

Pentax DSLR's take AA batteries, I'm fairly sure the K-M and the new K-X keep up that fine tradition.

Aye. I saw a Pentax K100D in Conns that took AA's, but unsure about the availabitility of lenses for Pentax DSLRs. I think one of the lads in Conns said that they'd be stopping supplying Pentax, as the profit margin was too small.

=-=

As for the above prices I gave, I see that these don't include the lense. I'm thinking of waiting untill January before buying one. Would they drop by much in the sales?

CabanSail

I cannot see the image as it's blocked to me right now.

A Fisheye Lens will normally give you about 180 degree view. In doing so it will have a lot of distortion. This distortion can make it very difficult to stitch images together.

lee_

the_syco wrote: »

Aye. Would be looking at taking panoramas like in abandonedireland.com which a fish eye would come in handy. For example, this took 107 or so shots (with a point&shoot camera) to make up, whilst with a fisheye I'd say I could take a 3rd of the shots to get the same effect, maybe less.

do you realise how much a descent fisheye lens costs?

and if you put it on a cropped sensor it wont be a fisheye any more

and stitching distorted fisheye photos together can be more time consuming than regular ones.

That panorama could have been taken in less than 100 shots IMO

the_syco

lee_ wrote: »

do you realise how much a descent fisheye lens costs?

Aye, lots. Would get a cheap one for about €300.

lee_ wrote: »

cropped sensor

Unfortunately this goes over my head

lee_ wrote: »

stitching distorted fisheye photos together can be more time consuming than regular ones

It took me 20 minutes to create the image I linked to. I may get a few images off someone with a fisheye first to check out which lense to go for.

lee_ wrote: »

That panorama could have been taken in less than 100 shots IMO

Aye, probably could, but as I was looking at a pitch black part of a room, some of the shots may have lapsed over others more than some. Meh. Some shots, such as this took less. Maybe 32 or so. With a better image sensor, and more MP's, I'd probably be able to not have to zoom in as much, and thus get a better shot. I'd say I could nearly get this in one shot, if the camera had a decent setup. I think that shot compromised of between 9 and 27 shots.If I took it as one, it wouldn't be that clear, so I took many, and merged them. If the camera had a decent image sensor, and more MP's, I'd say I could do it in one shot.

lee_

The cropped sensor just means that the sensor is smaller and you will not get the full wide angled view. For example

Canons 450d has a C sized 1.6x sensor

so a 17mm wide angle lens will actually be

17 * 1.6 = 27.2 mm

http://digital-photography-school.com/full-frame-sensor-vs-crop-sensor-which-is-right-for-you

there are probably better articles explaining it if you need more info but this is a start..

You can also buy cheap screw on wide angle attachments for your lens on e bay that might suit your needs but the optical quality is no way near as good as a fisheye lens

Promac

Here's a nice primer on crop factors (and beginning DSLR photography in general):
http://www.berniecode.com/writing/photography/beginners/

I recently bought a canon 450D and I've absolutely no complaints about it. And you can get a battery grip that allows you to power it with 6 AA batteries.

Here's a reasonably priced one on eBay

denat

the_syco wrote: »

Aye. Would be looking at taking panoramas like in abandonedireland.com which a fish eye would come in handy.

I've had a look at the abandonedireland site and can't imagine why anyone would seek to emulate the interior fisheye shots I've seen there. They MAY have artistic value but, as representations of reality, they fail entirely IMHO.

Rb

denat wrote: »

I've had a look at the abandonedireland site and can't imagine why anyone would seek to emulate the interior fisheye shots I've seen there. They MAY have artistic value but, as representations of reality, they fail entirely IMHO.

Indeed, I love the AI site and a lot of the images on it, but unfortunatley these images frustrate me as you can't get a proper feel for the room captured at all. You spend more time trying to put the room together as a mental image than you should have to.

DutchGuy

If you'd consider going second hand you might be able to pick up a decent canon 40d (or Nikon equivalent if you must go down that road:D) and lens for a similar price.

As for panorama shots, even with a standard zoom it shouldn't take more than three or four shots to take a picture like that. I certainly wouldn't spend that much money on one until you are sure you want one.

Freddie59

DBIreland wrote: »

Argos are selling the Canon 450D with the 18-55 kit lens for 550 euro at the moment.

Hoping to pick get it myself this weekend.

Doesn't take AA bateries though.

Don't worry about it. I had one for 12 months. It will take HUNDREDS of photos on a single charge. It is a great camera.:)

DBIreland

Freddie59 wrote: »

Don't worry about it. I had one for 12 months. It will take HUNDREDS of photos on a single charge. It is a great camera.:)

The AA bateries was a requirement of the OP, thats is why I mentioned it. I have no plans to use AA bateries.

I'm getting ridiculously excited at the thought of getting a DSLR, no idea what I'll shoot though!

the_syco

CabanSail wrote: »

I do not know of any of the DSLR Bodies that take AA Batteries. I know that with the Nikons you can fit AA Batteries into the Battery Grips (I assume other makes will be similar) but this is an optional accessory. I would suggest that you just buy some spare batteries (the generic ones from reputatable suppliers are good & cheap) and learn to manage them properly.

Hmmmm.... with that in mind, I'll probably go for either the Canon EOS 450D or 1000D, or the Nikon D3000 (image sensor looks better). Will pop into Conns over the weekend, and ask their advice on what products they're stocking that I could buy for around the €500 mark.

Geezer1000

I got a 450d on ebay. Factory refurbished (would def pass for brand new), 18-55 lens, spare battery, bag, uv filter, sd card reader, lens cleaning kit, screw-on type teleconvertor, screw on type wide angle, mini tripod, proper tripod, 8gb card. €536 incl delivery.
I love it.:D

AnCatDubh

Just on the broad subject of AA batteries;

Buy good ones and you'll have no worries should your dSLR use them. They're as cheap as chips so you can always afford a back up set (or 5)

I've had the experience with both and while a proprietary battery lasts a heck of a long time, I have no particular problems with branded (Uniross) AA's on an earlier camera I owned. Unbranded eBay ones on the other hand were the worst piece of cr*p that the good lord every allowed to be produced on this earth. The difference in cost is marginal in the overall scheme so if you do need to buy then buy branded.

BTW - Your selection of a camera on battery size/type will most definitely not make you a better photographer

Hmnnnnnn...... BTW (2) - Your selection of a camera won't make you a better photographer either so don't worry about what batteries it takes.

Visit a bricks and mortar, get a hold of candidates for purchase within your budget and make a choice based on your liking of it (it isn't terribly more difficult than that). These days at entry level (sub €500) the camera will be more than capable assuming a brand of repute (canon, nikon, sony, pentax, olympus) - it's the photographer that probably will need some tuning.

Good luck with it.

Pete67

If you have decided on a camera, Ian Kerr is an eBay seller based in Scotland who goes by the name Kerso. You will find it very hard to beat his prices. I've no afiliation with him, just bought several lenses and most recently a Speedlite from him, never any hassle.

drop him a mail for prices on cameras you are interested in. kerso1123@msn.com

I've used the Canon 450d and I'd recommend it highly.

CabanSail

If you are going to drop into a shop on the weekend then I would say try Gunns first. they are on Wexford St. Most here would rate them as the best camera retailer in Dublin.

JackKelly

CabanSail wrote: »

If you are going to drop into a shop on the weekend then I would say try Gunns first. they are on Wexford St. Most here would rate them as the best camera retailer in Dublin.

I would second that. Very nice people with a lot of knowledge

the_syco

AnCatDubh wrote: »

BTW - Your selection of a camera on battery size/type will most definitely not make you a better photographer

Aye, but it'll allow me to pop into a shop to get batteries rather than having to "come back tomorrow when the battary charges" to take a certain shot

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Hmnnnnnn...... BTW (2) - Your selection of a camera won't make you a better photographer either so don't worry about what batteries it takes.

I'm unsure if this will make sense, but... I'm looking to get a camera to get better photo's. I suppose if you look at this one in the "original" view, a lot is, well, not in focus. Not really a lot you can do with a 3MP point & shoot, but I'm hoping to be able to f**k around with the settings of a DSLR to get a better shot. As for being a better photographer... that depends on what people think of my work, so I'm not pushed on that atm: I'm still having fun taking photo's.

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Visit a bricks and mortar, get a hold of candidates for purchase within your budget

On that note, I found a Pentax DSLR (K100D) that takes AA's, which although is only 6.1MP, it's sensor is meant to be better. In saying that, the numbers within the Canon 1000D spec look beeter, so I'm assuming it's better?

CabanSail wrote: »

If you are going to drop into a shop on the weekend then I would say try Gunns first. they are on Wexford St. Most here would rate them as the best camera retailer in Dublin.

Aye, I went to them as well as Conns when I went looking. The only camera they had that was in my price range was the Canon 1000D.

twowheelsonly

the_syco wrote: »

Aye, but it'll allow me to pop into a shop to get batteries rather than having to "come back tomorrow when the battary charges" to take a certain shot

No it won't - Murphys Law says that the shops will be closed or 10 miles away when you want that certain shot - and you'll end up with a bag full of AA batteries that you don't know are dead or alive!!!

Whilst I understand your point about availability etc, if you can't remember to charge your stock battery then you probably won't remember to replace your AAs' either - DAMHIK

Cost and longevity is another factor. You'll get far more life from a rechargeable stock battery than from any AAs'. You'll go through probably hundreds of sets of AAs' long before your lithium gives up the ghost. Also if you're shooting long exposures on a night shoot bring your credit card to stock up!!

As a NIkon user - my tuppence worth. As mentioned already, most Nikons have an optional extra grip which will take AAs'. This will give you the best of both worlds as well as (possibly) a more stable camera. Almost all Nikon chargers - and I would imagine most other brands as well - are now high speed chargers and will fully charge a battery in an hour or so. Keep a power inverter in the car and you can charge them on the move.

CabanSail

If you get one of these then you can charge the batteries at home or in the car. Get a spare battery and it is unlikely you will ever miss a shot due a lack of power.

pearljamfan

im in no way a great photographer but i have managed to take some decent shots with my fuji s9600, i got it a few years ago and it was quite cheap then,around €400. it takes aa batteries and i find it brilliant, suits my needs, but i am ready to try something bigger. id love to hear what 'proper' photograhers think of this camera, and that reminds me i must fill up my flikr with some fotos too!!!

Kintarō Hattori

the_syco wrote: »

On that note, I found a Pentax DSLR (K100D) that takes AA's, which although is only 6.1MP, it's sensor is meant to be better. In saying that, the numbers within the Canon 1000D spec look beeter, so I'm assuming it's better?

I use a Pentax K100D Super myself. It's the model that came out just after the K100D you've been looking at. When I bought it in 2008 I paid €350 for it and the kit lens new. When I see the likes of Conns selling this today I can't help but feel it's not worth the price.

It's a great camera and the image quality (with a sharp lens) is top notch but because of the relatively low MP there isn't much room to crop your images if needs be.
Also the fact that it uses AA batteries is not a problem. As AnCatDubh mentioned, with a good set of batteries such as Uniross you can easily get 600+ shots before they die. I've used 2700mAh batteries from day one and have never been given a reason to complain. The likes of Duracell and Energiser run out very quickly so rechargeables are the way to go.


In summary, the K100D is a fine camera but some of the prices I've seen appear a little high considering its age. Also AA batteries are not an issue once you buy good quality rechargeable batteries.

drunkmonkey

Here's a 500d with lens and 4gb card for 520 + postage, i've one of these, very good camera. Still trying to get my head around it. Highly recommend it at that money. http://cgi.ebay.ie/CANON-EOS-REBEL-T1i-500D-DIGITAL-SLR-CAMERA-KIT-4-GB_W0QQitemZ290387728994QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN?hash=item439c751a62

edit, ooops didn't see it was a refurb by canon, still cheap though or you could try jessops for a new one

the_syco

Thinking of getting a "450D (XSi) 18-55mm IS kit" for roughly €478 off an ebay shop (kerso). Conns has the same for €649. Did a Google on the shop, and it seems he's based in the US, but distributes from Scotland. As he pays VAT & duty, the warranty is meant to be in place in the UK, as well as the USA (will look into this more, to see if it covers Ireland). Lots of poitive feedback from lots of different forums, which is a good sign.

But I was wondering what is the benefit of an 18-55mm IS lense over a 18-55mm lense?

Rb

IS = image stabilised. For what you want it for, it's not going to make much of a difference. The non-IS version is a few years older than the IS lens too. They're the supplied kit lenses with the xxxD Canon cameras and they're not great, next kit lens up is the 17-85mm IS USM lens which is loveleh. If you want to pick up the body I'll sell you a barely used IS 18-55mm kit lens for <€100 if you're interested, drop me a pm if you want it.

the_syco

Rb wrote: »

IS = image stabilised. For what you want it for, it's not going to make much of a difference. The non-IS version is a few years older than the IS lens too. They're the supplied kit lenses with the xxxD Canon cameras and they're not great, next kit lens up is the 17-85mm IS USM lens which is loveleh.

If you want to pick up the body I'll sell you a barely used IS 18-55mm kit lens for <€100 if you're interested, drop me a pm if you want it.

Well, the 450D with the IS kit is €478 from keros, a €100 cheaper than a non-IS kit from Conns, and over €150 cheaper than Conns IS kit, so it's cheaper for me to get it with the IS lens kit. Heck, it's cheaper for me to get the IS kit from Keros, than to buy just the body from Conns. Good exchange rate ftw

What is the IS USM and how much more are we talking about? Or are we talking about stupid money?

String

Nikon d3000 435e on Amazon free delivery and if you order before the 10th january you get 30e cashback. Seems like a good deal

Rb

the_syco wrote: »

Well, the 450D with the IS kit is €478 from keros, a €100 cheaper than a non-IS kit from Conns, and over €150 cheaper than Conns IS kit, so it's cheaper for me to get it with the IS lens kit. Heck, it's cheaper for me to get the IS kit from Keros, than to buy just the body from Conns. Good exchange rate ftw

What is the IS USM and how much more are we talking about? Or are we talking about stupid money?

USM = ultra sonic motor (for autofocus), it's quicker and quieter than normal. You can pick the 17-85mm up on adverts for about €230-€250 I think.

dinneenp

Look here http://www.photographyblog.com/articles_best_digital_camera.php
and
here http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/nikon_d3000_review/