Info on finding a good dog trainer

BeauZak

Hi All,

I hope the information to follow will help you all in finding a good dog trainer. I will post it on a new thread too.

Certification of Trainers
There are many certifying bodies for trainers but what you need to be looking for are the bodies who only certify through assessment.
For example the APDT Association of Pet Dog Trainers in the USA has various levels of membership. The lowest level you can pay to become a member and use their logo etc but their professional membership can only be gained through strict criteria.

APDT UK Assessment criteria is far more strict as per the details here: http://www.apdt.co.uk/dog_trainer_membership.asp

APDT UK membership means that you are fully assessed a list of APDT UK trainers are here: http://www.apdt.co.uk/trainers_area.asp?area=Ireland - Southern

The Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers (CCPDT)
You must have a certain amount of hours training PLUS sit an exam in one of the colleges here. This is arranged by them.

Now there are AMAZING trainers who are not certified by any cert body but who can still effectively train to a high standard using positive methods. Good examples of this can be seen in the Agility and other activities.

Due to the number of trainers coming on board who feel they can copy certain TV shows and then become trainers the bodies listed below have come together and released this website.

www.dogwelfarecampaign.com

Supported by:
European Society of Veterinary Clinical Ethology (ESVCE)
Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers (CCPDT)
Canine Partners
British Small Animal Veterinary Society (BSAVA)
American Veterinary Society of Animal Behaviour (AVSAB)
Dogs Trust
RSPCA
British Blue Cross
Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT UK)
Association of Pet Behaviour Councillors UK (APBC)
UK Registry of Canine Behaviourists
World Society for the protection of Animals (WSPA)
International Association of Animal Behaviour Consultants (IAABC)

As you can see the list above is comprehensive and you cannot really argue with those who have years of experience combined with years of study.

And any of the trainers who are members of one or more of these groups should conform to welfare in training otherwise they will be found out fairly sharpish and removed from the list.

The terms 'correction', 'aversives', 'dominance', 'pack' and hierarchy are all questionable. If you have studied canine behaviour in the last 10 years you will know that dogs are dogs and wolves are wolves the similarities are too few. If you want to learn about dogs study dogs not wolves. Ever since it was discovered that the Alpha's in the wolf pack don't eat first all of the dominance style theories were turned on their head. Also Prof David Mech was the first to spread the dominance theory basing it on studies of captive wolves. He has since come out and said that was incorrect.

In Europe legislation is being looked at for the area of Dog Trainers and Behaviourists. This is a really positive thing and regulation is desperately needed.

PLEASE NOTE: For serious behavioural issues you must consult a Clinical Behaviourist through your vet

REMEMBER: If a 'trainer' uses a correction or choke chain or prong collar and your dog suffers any of the associated injuries such as spine problems, nerve damage or increased aggression due to the training method then that trainer is liable and you can pursue for costs.

The website for Welfare in Dog Trainers is www.dogwelfarecampaign.com it will explain some outdated training methods such as the dominance theory. Those involved in this campaign are highly qualified behaviourists, vet groups, welfare groups. Their findings are based on scientific evidence. These are not companies but non profit organisations such as RSPCA, APDT, Veterinary Societies so I trust their values and opinions.

Please find a trainer who CAN train your dog using positive reinforcement. The more experience and qualifications the better. There are many trainers who successfully train to a high level without the use of any equipment that causes pain such as choke chains, prong collars, electric collars (recently banned in Wales and hopefully here soon too). There are also trainers who train protection dogs without the use of correction and to a high safe standard but these dogs are of sound temperament and to assess a dogs temperament one must have a high level of canine behaviour knowledge and personally in my opinion should have studied to at least diploma level in Applied Canine Behaviour.

You should also remember that just because a behaviour appears to improve because there is no reaction does not always mean the behaviour has been cured. You certainly do not want to remove the bark and leave the bite. Behaviours that are deep rooted take a long time to treat correctly and safely.

I hope this info is useful. You have a duty of care to your dog. He/she has no one else to protect him/her.

Please note I am not speaking out against any trainer listed or discussed here as I do not have any info on them and I feel they have come on here and replied to any queries posted.
I am simply providing safety info for you and your dog.

star-pants

My concern is they are all UK assesment, UK membership etc.
No Irish ones - and you link to a list of Irish trainers but the page has no info on it.
The dogwelfarecampaign itself is suppored by mostly UK/USA societies.

You say about choke chains being banned in Wales and 'hopefully here soon' do you mean the UK or Ireland?

BeauZak

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/

Posting as FYI

Not on here much so if you have queries please direct them to the relevant contact on this website.

star-pants

Moved above post here as you don't need to create separate threads on the one topic

Also - do you work for the linked site above? (As you're directing peoples queries for you, to there)

BeauZak

No I don't work for the site no one does if you have another read it explains but in short the site was created by the groups listed in order to support Welfare in Dog Training. This website along with a press release has been issued to trainers, behaviourists and vets in Ireland, the UK some EU countries the USA and Australia last week.

No ban on choke chains I was referring to electric collars which have been banned in Wales, Scotland are looking at this now along with the UK. No choke chain ban as evidence would need to be gathered to support such a ban and it would need to be medical evidence. I believe there are many studies done through necropsies done on dogs who had choke chains used in training.

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There are no standard setting bodies in Ireland at the moment but the Irish trainers are listed here plus any Irish trainer can become certified by APDT UK, CCPDT which is an international body, also the APBC and IAABC so there are a few international bodies that can be useful for trainers.

I believe the Irish bodies such as Veterinary Ireland have been made aware of this campaign. Also the ISPCA so I guess they may support or not in future but I don't work for them or any of the organisations listed on the site or the site so I cannot speak for them.

I think the link above was broken
http://www.apdt.co.uk/trainers_area.asp?area=Ireland - Southern

Hope that answers your questions. I may not be on later so if I don't reply I am not ignoring just in work.

star-pants

Sorry I mean the collars you were saying were banned in Wales and you're hoping for 'here' (just that this is an irish website so people tend to assume when people say 'here' you mean Ireland, even though there are people from all over the world on here, I just wanted to clarify where you meant)
The Republic of Ireland doesn't fall under the UK so a ban there wouldn't mean a ban here.

There are many different methods and many different schools of thought on training.
Do you have dogs yourself? have they been professionally trained?
(I'm just curious as to where you're coming from with this info, not that it's unwanted btw)

Paul91

Cheers for posting this OP - will have a good read through it when i get a moment, but it's great you took the time to post this info on here I'm always up for a read on dog welfare (time for a lunch break I reckon)

BeauZak

Sorry to clarify (my fault multitasking here)

Personally I would like to see a ban in Ireland on shock collars. Have read the studies, journals and results pro's and con's used for the ban on them in Wales and from a welfare implication and due to the fact that the evidence suggest that they can create more serious behaviours.

I also tried one on and could only go to level 4 on my hand there are 8 levels on this. It is a Petsafe one costed around €180. So my opinion on these is an informed on although I do understand others will feel differently but I believe when giving an opinion one should have info to back opinions up.

I live here in Ireland so yes I mean here to clarify!

Paul91

BeauZak wrote: »

The Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers (CCPDT)
You must have a certain amount of hours training PLUS sit an exam in one of the colleges here. This is arranged by them.

is that "here" in ireland - do you know which colleges by chance? I think St. Johns in Cork do some courses, but would be interested to see whom else.

BeauZak wrote: »

Ever since it was discovered that the Alpha's in the wolf pack don't eat first all of the dominance style theories were turned on their head.

that makes sense to me, i always eat last in our house - dogs first then me

BeauZak wrote: »

Also Prof David Mech was the first to spread the dominance theory basing it on studies of captive wolves. He has since come out and said that was incorrect.

very interesting - don't think you have to dominate to control

BeauZak wrote: »

In Europe legislation is being looked at for the area of Dog Trainers and Behaviourists.

Is there anything that "Europe" is doing for animal welfare, as most people are aware in this forum, the animal welfare legislation in this country is at best archaic