Christmas in the Holy Land

ZeinElNour

When celebrating Christmas, it would be a good idea to think about the birthplace of Jesus. What is like in the Holy Land under occupation, injustice and racism? How does Christmas feel when the Holy Land is under siege?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9esPiCxLDZk

FlutterinBantam

The Holy Land is not under siege.

I visited Jerusalem last Christmas and had no inkling of any siege.

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The Holy Land is not under siege.

The walls around Bethlehem (you know the birth place of Jesus) would beg to differ.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I visited Jerusalem last Christmas and had no inkling of any siege.

So, you didn't see the walls almost surrounding Bethlehem then?!?

ZeinElNour

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The Holy Land is not under siege.

I visited Jerusalem last Christmas and had no inkling of any siege.

Good for you. So I take it you also went to Bethlehem and saw the separation wall, the checkpoints.

and I take it you were there when the Gaza war started. How did that feel?

FlutterinBantam

I was in Bethlehem and went through some security checks much like at Airports ,for instance Narita airport in Tokyo has security checks on the road there, but is not under siege?

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I was in Bethlehem and went through some security checks much like at Airports ,for instance Narita airport in Tokyo has security checks on the road there, but is not under siege?

Interesting. Are the people in Tokyo you know trapped there, with few option to leave, like the people of Bethlehem?!? If they are, then that would be very odd.

Now you seem intent on ignoring the reality for whatever reasons:

‘O Little Town of Bethlehem’ – Barrier Wall choking Palestinian community in birthplace of Christ

I think it fair to call what is going in Bethlehem a siege.

FlutterinBantam

I'm not ignoring anything, just giving my experience.

ZeinElNour

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I was in Bethlehem and went through some security checks much like at Airports ,for instance Narita airport in Tokyo has security checks on the road there, but is not under siege?

is this what the Narita airport look like.



By the way, we are not talking about an airport, sea port or border crossing. This is in Bethelelehm district! Of course tourists and israelis do not have to stand in that line.

Or maybe you were impressed by the Israeli Ministry of Tourism colour on the WALL!

FlutterinBantam

Like I said to the previous poster, I am recounting my experience there and I had no problems whatsoever.

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'm not ignoring anything, just giving my experience.

Yes, and your experience is hardly a refutation now is it? You are ignoring the experience of the people living there, which count a lot more than yours imho. However, you offered a comparison and I asked you a simple question, which you did ignore, as we both know the people of Tokyo can leave there city with little or no hassle, and you comparison is quite frankly a bad one due to this, as Palestinians movement is severly restricted even in the West Bank.

Basically, you said there is no siege, and yet the facts show that there clearly is a siege. You personal experience is all well and good, but when you ignore the experience of the people who actually live there, it doesn't amount to a whole lot.

aurelius79

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I was in Bethlehem and went through some security checks much like at Airports ,for instance Narita airport in Tokyo has security checks on the road there, but is not under siege?

I can't believe you just compared the Israeli blockade to some security checkpoints at an airport. How many people are held at these Japanese security checkpoints for hours, sometimes even days.

It's got to the point where most Palestinians don't even bother to try crossing because it's not even guaranteed they will be allowed to pass.

Israeli checkpoints are there to stop Palestinians from crossing the border, simple as that. It has little to do with security when people are kept for hours just so they can get to work. It's systematic oppression and denial of basic human rights.

ZeinElNour

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The Holy Land is not under siege.

Is that what you mean by giving your experience?

FlutterinBantam

I said the Holy land is not under siege

I include the whole of Israel in that.

last I heard Israel was not under siege?

Please stop putting words into my mouth sir.

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I said the Holy land is not under siege

I include the whole of Israel in that.

last I heard Israel was not under siege?

Please stop putting words into my mouth sir.

Well Palestine is also part of the Holy land and is under siege, and this is what was clearly being referred too and Bethlehem was specifically mentioned several times as well and you even referred to Bethlehem yourself. So no one is putting words in your mouth at all.

aurelius79

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I said the Holy land is not under siege

I include the whole of Israel in that.

last I heard Israel was not under siege?

Please stop putting words into my mouth sir.

Really? According to the Zionists, Israel is under siege by Palestinian "terrorists" and threats of destruction from Iran. Israel has always claimed it is under siege, that is their justification for the brutal use of force against an impoverished people.

FlutterinBantam

aurelius79 wrote: »

Really? According to the Zionists, Israel is under siege by Palestinian "terrorists" and threats of destruction from Iran. Israel has always claimed it is under siege, that is their justification for the brutal use of force against an impoverished people.

Being attacked certainly,threatened certainly, but under siege hardly.

You telling me the people of Israel can't leave the country??

is that your point??

aurelius79

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Being attacked certainly,threatened certainly, but under siege hardly.

You telling me the people of Israel can't leave the country??

is that your point??

Let's see. Israel is surrounded on three sides by Arab countries which have been hostile towards Israel at one point or another. If it weren't for the Mediterranean sea, Israel would indeed be literally under siege.

Any why is this? Because Zionists took land that was not theirs, drove out the Arab inhabitants, then slaughtered thousands of refugees without provocation. If anyone is to blame for Israel's current situation, it is the Israelis themselves.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The Holy Land is not under siege.

I visited Jerusalem last Christmas and had no inkling of any siege.

Stay there a few weeks with an Arab family.

sceptre

No opinion from the OP as the rules require (and no, "let's think of..." is a Trocaire campaign not an opinion) and predominantly unproductive silliness of little value since.

Nothing redeeming to avoid a lock.