The Rosenhan experiment

SLUSK

Have you ever heard of the Rosenhan experiment? If you didn't I can tell you that this experiment officially proves that psychiatry sucks.

The experiment consisted of him and other volunteers pretended to have auditory hallucinations in order to be admitted to mental hospitals. Once in, they said they hallucinations have gone away. The staff still considered them mentally ill and would not release them until they admitted they were mentally ill and agreed to take psychiatric drugs. More details can be found in wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

Psychiatry sucks because they cannot in an objective way separate the mentally ill from the sane. All diagnoses are really arbitrary.

Odysseus

I don't think it shows that psychiatry sucks. I use that study alot in my lecture on dual diagnosis to highlight the difficults in formulating an accurate diagnosis. You must also remember that that study was conducted in 1973 so they would have beeen using DSMII.

I think it shows that psychodiagnosis from a psychiatric viewpoint is problematic not that it sucks!

Though I have to admit I love that study and I think it can teach us alot.

EDit: I forgot to add I find the follow up side of that experiment interesting in terms of staff suspecting flase patient over the following months, when none presented. There are plenty of goods links on it if you goggle it, try to avoid wikipedia its not know for being fully accurate.

Rosenhan et al showed me alot, now I have major issues with the DSM and the ICD but to say it showed that psychiatry sucks it a tad basic do you not think?

SLUSK

Can psychiatry in any meaningful way separate the sane from the insane? Can you do physical tests to prove that a person has ADHD or whatever? No you can't.

Odysseus

SLUSK wrote: »

Can psychiatry in any meaningful way separate the sane from the insane? Can you do physical tests to prove that a person has ADHD or whatever? No you can't.

I know little about ADAH, but the DSM and the ICD supply a diagnostic ctiteria for these disorders. I'm a psychoanalyst so I don't use either, but I teach on psychodignostic around dual diagnosis so I'm familar enough with them.

I think they have psychometric tests for ADHA, would you suggest another way way to diagnosis. I use a different format, but as I said I'm a psychoanalyst. Can you do a physical test for delusion disorder?

If you have a psychotic person in full flow in your consulting it quite easy to establish that.

Are you suggesting that there shoould be physical tests for all mental disorders, how would you do that. No having a go but what are these physical test your are alluding to?

And yes in most cases when you may use the word "sane" I think that they can, but insane for me that would refer to severe psychotic disorder. Though its a word I would never use.

Odysseus

Sorry just to add I believe the DSM and the ICD have serious failings, I got a two year research MA out of it and I'm think of following that topic up with my PhD. So I'm not a blind follower if you get my point.

hotspur

SLUSK is a scientology guy as far as I recall from his previous posts Odysseus, so that should make clear his agenda.

SLUSK here's a tip next time you're spouting your scientology inspired propaganda - sane and insane are legal terms not terms from the field of mental health.

Odysseus

hotspur wrote: »

SLUSK is a scientology guy as far as I recall from his previous posts Odysseus, so that should make clear his agenda.

SLUSK here's a tip next time you're spouting your scientology inspired propaganda - sane and insane are legal terms not terms from the field of mental health.

It all makes sense now, cheers mate.

eth0_

Slusk is a CCHR/Scientology goon, so you can safely disregard any "science" he spouts.

Slusk - I take great enjoyment in removing the propaganda your CCHR buddies leave in libraries and other public places in Dublin and binning them.

SLUSK

What does Scientology have to do with the Rosenhan experiment?

Myksyk

The Rosenhan experiment shows that if someone is deliberately malingering it makes the complex process of assessing mental health issues hugely difficult. It is obvious that any mental health profession relies to varying degrees on subjective reports of peoples experiences. This is a largely unaviodable part of the process and has various limitations (as clearly demonstrated by the Rosenhan experiment) but it does not mean the practice of psychiatry is therefore entirely undermined.

SLUSK

Myksyk wrote: »

The Rosenhan experiment shows that if someone is deliberately malingering it makes the complex process of assessing mental health issues hugely difficult. It is obvious that any mental health profession relies to varying degrees on subjective reports of peoples experiences. This is a largely unaviodable part of the process and has various limitations (as clearly demonstrated by the Rosenhan experiment) but it does not mean the practice of psychiatry is therefore entirely undermined.

This experiment proved that you cannot in an objective way separate the mentally ill from those who are not mentally ill. That means that psychiatry put people on all kinds of drugs based on guesses and on the latest fads.

Valmont

SLUSK wrote: »

This experiment proved that you cannot in an objective way separate the mentally ill from those who are not mentally ill. That means that psychiatry put people on all kinds of drugs based on guesses and on the latest fads.

The experiment did reveal the shortcomings of the psychiatric approach to mental health but it wasn't as damning an indictment as you make it out to be.

sam34

stop feeding the troll!

n900guy

SLUSK wrote: »

Can psychiatry in any meaningful way separate the sane from the insane? Can you do physical tests to prove that a person has ADHD or whatever? No you can't.

Calling people who have any mental illness "sane or insane" is actually insane by my standards. You have a series of symptoms, and the impact they have on your life determine to a large part whether you have a diagnosis and need treatment.

There is no "sane or insane" concept, which is why a diagnosis of "Insanity" doesn't exist, anywhere.

You can certainly doa whole load of tests that show the neurobiological effects of ADHD, but they cost a lot of money. You also don't do physical tests for acid reflux disease as they can also cost a lot of money, and instead the GP can prescribe you a collection of 3-4 antibiotics based on your symptoms. Each of them have a response rate of 40-60%, much less than psychiatric drugs.

Likewise, you hit your head, go to A/E. Doesn't mean you'll get an MRI scan. They will listen to what the symptoms and signs are and probably just keep you overnight for 24 hrs neuro-obs and some routine tests to go with the odds that it's nothing and then discharge.

n900guy

SLUSK wrote: »

This experiment proved that you cannot in an objective way separate the mentally ill from those who are not mentally ill. That means that psychiatry put people on all kinds of drugs based on guesses and on the latest fads.

Mental illness isn't a switch on or off situation. It is as long a process of development as the effects of untreated diabetes or asthma.

eth0_

n900guy wrote: »

There is no "sane or insane" concept, which is why a diagnosis of "Insanity" doesn't exist, anywhere.

Not in the medical world. Insanity is purely a legal terminology to describe someone not in control of their thoughts and actions.

steoin

SLUSK wrote: »

the latest fads

Sceintology?