Do You Believe In Evolution?

Turtwig

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Magellan's round the world voyage proved the earth being round much earlier than space travel.

Actually the Greeks (and the Babylonians, I think?) did.:)

Turtwig

Jakkass wrote: »

Malty T: I disagree that the universe is orderless, there are certain constants that need to be fulfilled before life can occur. This is what I mean when I am discussing the universe being brought from order to chaos.

Like I said Jakkass I'm staying out of it this time.
I'm well aware of those constants, but you're.....no Malty no Leave it.

Some other time dude.:)

And for the love of God, how many times do I have to ask you to call me Malty?
The "T" is only there because some boardsie stole "Malty":mad:

laugh

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that was/is to be interpreted as the reasons for existence and not the process of existence.

Malty_T wrote: »

Genesis is just prose describing God's creation event in a poetic sense as best as possible.

Edit : Jakkass Beat me.

Or the all of it is just a fairytale?

I have just decided to interpret the concepts of heaven, a virgin giving birth and the son of god rising from dead as just prose.

If the universe was intelligently designed why would that grand designer give two fucks about the manner in which some intelligent monkeys on one of millions of planets live their lives?

IRockUrSocks

Jakkass wrote: »

How can one believe in something as ridiculous as the earth forming without any rhyme or reason? It's something that is about as worthy as substantiating as the theistic evolutionist viewpoint is, or the even the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint is.

The next thing I'd note is who are you to determine who is educated from who isn't? What criteria do you assume for being educated?

Francis Collins, I believe, a scientist who was mentioned as being religious. that is the person i was referring to being educated.

partyatmygaff

partyatmygaff wrote: »

A lot of people think "cavemen" used to live alongside dinasours.

The Flintstones have a lot to answer for!! :pac:

scanlas

Saying you don't believe in evolution is like saying you don't believe in water. The fact of evolution is unquestionable.

For anyone who wants to have the proof spelled out leaving you in no doubt it's truth just read "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. If you think evolution isn't a fact after reading that book you should be put in an insane assylum.

Turtwig

laugh wrote: »

If the universe was intelligently designed why would that grand designer give two fucks about the manner in which some intelligent monkeys on one of millions of planets live their lives?

Because Christians believe that God created the grander universe for humans to marvel at His majesty and also so that humans could appreciate His awesome power and abilities by realizing just how small they are in it.

IRockUrSocks

partyatmygaff wrote: »

"...new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis."
— John Paul II, 1996

The same John Paul II who had an attempt on his life and said it was Our Lady Of Fatima who guided the bullet? Why wasn't it Our Lady of Knock or the other Mother Marys? Perhaps they were busy elsewhere on the day....but if it was divine intervention, then why wasn't it guided elsewhere altogether?!

philologos

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Francis Collins, I believe, a scientist who was mentioned as being religious. that is the person i was referring to being educated.

Your argument is absolutely absurd. You said that 100% of scientists are atheists. Utter nonsense, I can find you scientists from numerous different belief systems. There are numerous scientists even in Ireland who are Christians.

laugh: No, it isn't. It's a allegorical representation of a truth, for others a literal representation of a truth.

wudangclan

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

The same John Paul II who had an attempt on his life and said it was Our Lady Of Fatima who guided the bullet? Why wasn't it Our Lady of Knock or the other Mother Marys? Perhaps they were busy elsewhere on the day....but if it was divine intervention, then why wasn't it guided elsewhere altogether?!

Cause if she is Our Lady of Fatima Mansions ,she has more experience in these matters.

IRockUrSocks

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Interesting......so despite the fact that you believe that the Earth (a miniscule dot in a massive cosmos) formed randomly and through evolution, out of chaos, you're completely dismissing the fact that the same could just as easily have happened elsewhere in the universe ?

I was referring to a Heaven, a hell.

laugh

Malty_T wrote: »

Because Christians believe that God created the grander universe for humans to marvel at His majesty and also so that humans could appreciate His awesome power and abilities by realizing just how small they are in it.

Through a need to matter more than simply being born, living and rotting in the ground.

partyatmygaff

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

The same John Paul II who had an attempt on his life and said it was Our Lady Of Fatima who guided the bullet? Why wasn't it Our Lady of Knock or the other Mother Marys? Perhaps they were busy elsewhere on the day....but if it was divine intervention, then why wasn't it guided elsewhere altogether?!

Oh my god, you really are just digging that hole deeper and deeper.

First of all, What the hell does that have to do with evolution???
Second of all, He meant Our lady of Fatima as being Mary. It was probably just on his mind at the time and he said it just for that.

Liam Byrne

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

That clergymen actually are up for sexual abuse of minors.

Unless you want to equally include groups such as "parents", "underage sports trainers", "uncles", "random strangers", and a whole host of other people in the above sentence, I'd suggest you retract the above pathetic and incorrect generalisation by including the word "some" at the start of it.

Of course, what that ridiculous comment has to do with a topic that's supposedly about evolution is beyond me....

4zn76tysfajdxp

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of Jews as "Christ Killers", no Northern Ireland troubles, no "honour killings", no sacrifices or televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money...

"Imagine no possessions, it's easy if you try..."

entropi

Evolution yes, since i dont believe in religion i'd be a hypocrite otherwise...

partyatmygaff

laugh wrote: »

Pity she couldn't make time to divert a few priest penii.

Ok I can see from this post onwards this thread is going downhill.

philologos

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

That clergymen actually are up for sexual abuse of minors.

Again, you're showing yourself to be dishonest.

Do you want to discuss evolution or the Roman Catholic Church? Make up your mind.

Also, sexual abuse doesn't disprove the Bible or Christianity but rather undermines the reputation of the Roman Catholic Church.

Master of Nothing wrote: »

Evolution yes, since i dont believe in religion i'd be a hypocrite otherwise...

How?

wudangclan

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Ok I can see from this post onwards this thread is going downhill.

Evolution of an AH thread.

laugh

Say I'm god and I created the universe and everything in it.

Mankind would be a cool accomplishment, why would I want them to waste the life I have given them kissing my ass for it?

I see the Irish equivilant to Godwins law has appeared again.

Almost any discussion that contains the word "catholic", will eventually include [sexually or violent] abusive priests or nuns.

IRockUrSocks

Jakkass wrote: »

Your argument is absolutely absurd. You said that 100% of scientists are atheists. Utter nonsense, I can find you scientists from numerous different belief systems. There are numerous scientists even in Ireland who are Christians.

laugh: No, it isn't. It's a allegorical representation of a truth, for others a literal representation of a truth.

I'm sorry, Jackass, but you're so delusional, it would be too generous of me to enlighten you. The science is crystal clear. I'm sure there are scientists all over the world believing in a higher power, however, many people miss-quote these.

Einstein himself was thought to be a religious man but he was completely taken out of context. He didn't believe in a big guy in the sky.

Read Richard Dawkins amazing and thought-provoking works. He has interviewed many evolutionary scientists as I said, and each of them refuse religion. One said he was a believer, but questioned more deeply, he retracted his statement and said that being of Jewish faith helped him organize his time around his family and brought stability to his life in the community, but that he didn't personally believe in anything.

I'm now wondering if you're a religulous teacher, sadly attempting to bring back some kind of worth to his career and life.

laugh

partyatmygaff wrote: »

this thread is going downhill.

A bit like the catholic church thankfully, we can only hope in the future the same realizations descend in other parts of the world.

Liam Byrne

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of Jews as "Christ Killers", no Northern Ireland troubles, no "honour killings", no sacrifices or televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money...

Then we'd only have what....Fianna Failers & bankers, thugs, scumbags and other con-men fleecing gullible people of their money, drunken idiots starting fights, "lay" rapists and other abusers, liars, cheats, etc ?

The way you phrased the above, you'd swear all of life's ills were caused by religion, when in actual fact if people lived by the spirit of the religions there would be none of the above.

Organised religion sucks, and it has its power-trips and scumbags the same as every other grouping or ethos. It's true that it shouldn't have, but it does - and the common link is that there's greedy and twisted f**ks in every walk of life.

But suggesting that life would somehow be magically perfect if it didn't exist is deluded.....the scumbags that corrupted it would merely find another mechanism to excuse their mindset.

scanlas

Of all the fossils ever found not one comes from a time period which would
contradict the fact of evolution.

partyatmygaff

laugh wrote: »

A bit like the catholic church thankfully, we can only hope in the future the same realizations descend in other parts of the world.

Haha, thank you for your amazing posts on evolution. I am pretty sure you will find the catholic church is holding strong in many parts around the world. It will reform.

In any case, Stop having digs at religion in a thread about evolution. It makes you look like a rabbling fool.

philologos

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

I'm sorry, Jackass, but you're so delusional, it would be too generous of me to enlighten you. The science is crystal clear. I'm sure there are scientists all over the world believing in a higher power, however, many people miss-quote these.

Delusional for presenting you with the facts? Scientists, who are Christians in Ireland.

Although, the Guardian did a recent piece on this. Adam Rutherford an atheist goes through the problems with the figures concerning scientists and their religious affiliation. I.E the results are limited:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/audio/2009/dec/02/atheist-guide-christmas-religion

It appears that you didn't want to discuss this, rather you wanted to vent about your atheism which surprisingly is increasingly tolerated on AH. However, you didn't want to do this in a way that was honest, but in a way that was dishonest by bringing evolution into it.

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Einstein himself was thought to be a religious man but he was completely taken out of context. He didn't believe in a big guy in the sky.

I'm aware of this. There are many open Christians still in science, therefore saying 100% of scientists are atheists is wrong.

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Read Richard Dawkins amazing and thought-provoking works. He has interviewed many evolutionary scientists as I said, and each of them refuse religion. One said he was a believer, but questioned more deeply, he retracted his statement and said that being of Jewish faith helped him organize his time around his family and brought stability to his life in the community, but that he didn't personally believe in anything.

I've read a lot of his God Delusion. I found it to be dry in comparison to other critiques such as God is Not Great. The quality of atheist works has decreased considerably since the days of Friedrich Nietzsche, Albert Camus and so on.

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

I'm now wondering if you're a religulous teacher, sadly attempting to bring back some kind of worth to his career and life.

I'm a university student, and a believer in God. Rather normal I would have thought?

laugh

partyatmygaff wrote: »

In any case, Stop having digs at religion in a thread about evolution. It makes you look like a rabbling fool.

The godsquad around here are such nice guys, the irony of it.

IRockUrSocks

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Then we'd only have what....Fianna Failers & bankers, thugs, scumbags and other con-men fleecing gullible people of their money, drunken idiots starting fights, "lay" rapists and other abusers, liars, cheats, etc ?

The way you phrased the above, you'd swear all of life's ills were caused by religion, when in actual fact if people lived by the spirit of the religions there would be none of the above.

Organised religion sucks, and it has its power-trips and scumbags the same as every other grouping or ethos. It's true that it shouldn't have, but it does - and the common link is that there's greedy and twisted f**ks in every walk of life.

But suggesting that life would somehow be magically perfect if it didn't exist is deluded.....the scumbags that corrupted it would merely find another mechanism to excuse their mindset.

Very good post, Liam. However, Islam is meant to be a peaceful religion and yet, we hear suicide bombs killing dozens regularly and we hear it's religion who made this massacre. Look at George Bush, he practically changed the majority of Americans opinions about Muslims into a "War on Terror" which was really a Christian vs. Muslim war.

Red_Marauder

I voted no, because it was closer on the screen.

partyatmygaff

laugh wrote: »

The godsquad around here are such nice guys, the irony of it.

They are nice guys. The scumbags on the other hand are what they are though, simply scumbags.


I don't see what any of this has to do with science or evolution though.

IRockUrSocks

partyatmygaff wrote: »

They are nice guys. The scumbags on the other hand are what they are though, simply scumbags.


I don't see what any of this has to do with science or evolution though.

Nice guys? The same nice guys who are a part of the religion who says homosexuals can't enter heaven? (no homo)

We simply cannot live our lives according to ancient teachings. I wonder if the people disagreeing with me are married? And if so, have they had sex yet. Do they believe in anti- abortion in this day and age?

philologos

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Nice guys? The same nice guys who are a part of the religion who says homosexuals can't enter heaven? (no homo)

We simply cannot live our lives according to ancient teachings. I wonder if the people disagreeing with me are married? And if so, have they had sex yet. Do they believe in anti- abortion in this day and age?

Before we can deal with this, will you answer this point concerning this thread?

Did you want to discuss evolution, or go on a rant about religion while using evolution as an excuse to do so?

partyatmygaff

Jakkass wrote: »

Before we can deal with this, will you answer this point concerning this thread?

Did you want to discuss evolution, or go on a rant about religion while using evolution as an excuse to do so?

He doesn't need to answer that. Its obvious he just wants to go rant and rave about religion. Thats plain to see.

scanlas

Jakkass wrote: »

Before we can deal with this, will you answer this point concerning this thread?

Did you want to discuss evolution, or go on a rant about religion while using evolution as an excuse to do so?

What books have you read about evolution?

baalthor

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

I'm sorry, Jackass, but you're so delusional, it would be too generous of me to enlighten you. The science is crystal clear. I'm sure there are scientists all over the world believing in a higher power, however, many people miss-quote these.

Einstein himself was thought to be a religious man but he was completely taken out of context. He didn't believe in a big guy in the sky.

OTOH there is a paleontologist who is a literal believer in the Bible.

MagicMarker

scanlas wrote: »

What books have you read about evolution?

Have you read the bible?

Liam Byrne

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

However, Islam is meant to be a peaceful religion

I would argue that every religion is "meant to be peaceful" and it's only extremists and psychos that hijack it in a pathetic attempt to claim additional support. The IRA campaign would be similar - we're doing it for "the Catholics" or "the Irish", even though none of what they did would have been supported or condoned.

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Look at George Bush, he practically changed the majority of Americans opinions about Muslims into a "War on Terror" which was really a Christian vs. Muslim war.

You really should read up more on things before you post; it was not a "Christian vs. Muslim war" - it was a contrived excuse for an invasion to get control of oil reserves and punish Saddam Hussein for having the cheek to propose selling oil barrels in euro - nothing to do with religion or beliefs, unless you view money, power and ego as a religion.

No-one truly religious or Christian has ever murdered or maimed anyone. They might have "claimed" that, but they were merely using it as an excuse.

philologos

scanlas wrote: »

What books have you read about evolution?

Most of the stuff I have learned about evolution has been online. I have read some stuff from Francis Collins concerning the compatibility of modern science with faith. I have a grasp of how it works.

It is admittedly something I have to read much more on.

IRockUrSocks

Jakkass wrote: »

Before we can deal with this, will you answer this point concerning this thread?

Did you want to discuss evolution, or go on a rant about religion while using evolution as an excuse to do so?

I wanted to discuss evolution and people's view towards it if they were religious. I believe in Evolution and if, on a personal perspective, I look at the evidence for Evolution, I find it hard to accept what I learned in school. I was interested in hearing other peoples opinions.

scanlas

Jakkass wrote: »

Most of the stuff I have learned about evolution has been online. I have read some stuff from Francis Collins concerning the compatibility of modern science with faith. I have a grasp of how it works.

It is admittedly something I have to read much more on.

I recommend "The Selfish Gene" and "The Greatest Show on Earth".

Liam Byrne

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

Nice guys? The same nice guys who are a part of the religion who says homosexuals can't enter heaven? (no homo)

But if you're right, and there is no heaven, what difference does this make ? :rolleyes:

No-one can enter a non-existent place, right ?

IRockUrSocks

baalthor wrote: »

OTOH there is a paleontologist who is a literal believer in the Bible.

He's American.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You really should read up more on things before you post; it was not a "Christian vs. Muslim war" - it was a contrived excuse for an invasion to get control of oil reserves and punish Saddam Hussein for having the cheek to propose selling oil barrels in euro - nothing to do with religion or beliefs, unless you view money, power and ego as a religion.

I agree but what I was getting at is the sectarianism you'll find redneck Americans have towards Muslims because of faith.

philologos

scanlas wrote: »

I recommend "The Selfish Gene" and "The Greatest Show on Earth".

Even if I read these books. How are these books going to lead me away from God if I am just dealing with the theory of evolution?

The assumption either very wrongly made by the OP, or intentionally made so as to go on a rant about religion makes the assumption that one cannot be a Christian and regard modern science.

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

I wanted to discuss evolution and people's view towards it if they were religious. I believe in Evolution and if, on a personal perspective, I look at the evidence for Evolution, I find it hard to accept what I learned in school. I was interested in hearing other peoples opinions.

Why didn't you ask in the Christianity forum?

Turtwig

Jakkass wrote: »

Most of the stuff I have learned about evolution has been online. I have read some stuff from Francis Collins concerning the compatibility of modern science with faith. I have a grasp of how it works.

It is admittedly something I have to read much more on.

Hi,

Jakkass, I'm popping back in for a second.

The great thing about creationism is that there is so much resources out there on evolution.

Dawkins's "The Greatest Show on Earth" Completely Scientific.
Is probably the best place to start.
I can link you to excellent online videos or webpages too, but Dawkins book is in my view the best most lucid and enjoyable journey through evolution.

Turtwig

Jakkass wrote: »

Even if I read these books. How are these books going to lead me away from God if I am just dealing with the theory of evolution?

I don't think they would. They're purely science based.

laugh

Liam Byrne wrote: »

But if you're right, and there is no heaven, what difference does this make ? :rolleyes:

No-one can enter a non-existent place, right ?

Why do you bother defending religion if you are going to do it in such an ignorant way. maybe you are an atheist trying to make it look bad

IRockUrSocks

scanlas wrote: »

I recommend "The Greatest Show on Earth".

Masterpiece.

philologos

laugh: the only ignorance on this thread that I have noted so far has been from those arguing against religion again for the umpteenth time on boards.

Malty T: Francis Collins is a theistic evolutionist.

scanlas

Jakkass wrote: »

Even if I read these books. How are these books going to lead me away from God if I am just dealing with the theory of evolution?

The assumption either very wrongly made by the OP, or intentionally made so as to go on a rant about religion makes the assumption that one cannot be a Christian and regard modern science.



Why didn't you ask in the Christianity forum?

I'm not saying it will lead you away from God, but everyone should understand how evolution works, there's so much misinformation about it.
Everyone should know that evolution is fact just like the world isn't flat is a fact.