Why is Ireland so dangerous

jonny72

If any of you have been to relatively 'normal' European countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, etc.. I think you'll notice there are hardly any homegrown vicious scumbags in these countries..

Why are there so many of them in Ireland? I've been beaten up twice, chased, and I consider getting off lightly. My friend just had his face half ripped off by a pack of scumbags, one of whom had just been released on bail and was out attacking people a few days later.

Most of us just shrug and seem to think its normal, its the same in Scotland, Wales and England too.. but just cross the channel.. and the situation completely and utterly changes.

Our prison system is ineffective

TokenWhite

jonny72 wrote: »

If any of you have been to relatively 'normal' European countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, etc.. I think you'll notice there are hardly any homegrown vicious scumbags in these countries..

Why are there so many of them in Ireland? I've been beaten up twice, chased, and I consider getting off lightly. My friend just had his face half ripped off by a pack of scumbags, one of whom had just been released on bail and was out attacking people a few days later.

Most of us just shrug and seem to think its normal, its the same in Scotland, Wales and England too.. but just cross the channel.. and the situation completely and utterly changes.

Our prison system is ineffective

I would have thought it depends on where you go within a country, all of the above countries you mentioned will no doubt have no go areas where vermin of society congregate. Ireland in my experience is certainly not a dangerous country, but like everywhere else it has its scumbag element and they tend to originate from within certain disadvantaged areas, but I would not say this is indicitive of the country as a whole.

Cool Mo D

jonny72 wrote: »

If any of you have been to relatively 'normal' European countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, etc.. I think you'll notice there are hardly any homegrown vicious scumbags in these countries..

Why are there so many of them in Ireland? I've been beaten up twice, chased, and I consider getting off lightly. My friend just had his face half ripped off by a pack of scumbags, one of whom had just been released on bail and was out attacking people a few days later.

Half of us just shrug and seem to think its normal, seems to be the same in Scotland, Wales and England too.. but just cross the channel.. and the situation completely and utterly changes.

Our prison system doesn't work for these people, they enjoy it, they need to be put in solitary, thats the only thing that can sort them.

Have you ever actually been to any of those countries? They all have the scumbag situation going on. Ireland is a pretty safe country, it certainly isn't more dangerous than the Netherlands, and Dublin isn't half as bad as somewhere like Paris. I've never been to the other countries you mention though.

For example, the Netherlands has a population of 20 million, and recorded 111,000 violent crimes in 2007. Ireland has a population of 4 million and recorded 17,000 violent crimes in 2007. Denmark recorded 20,000 violent crimes, with 5 million people, Sweden recorder 108,000 violent crimes in 2007 with a population of 9 million. This is according to http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/crime/data/database

EI111

OP do you mind me asking how much information you have about anti social behavior in the countries you have mentioned? Wales, Denmark etc.

Do you just think Ireland is dangerous because you have been attacked here and you haven't been attacked in the Netherlands or Denmark? Does the TV coverage we receive in Ireland affect your opinion of the situation in the UK?

I think urban Ireland can be dangerous but I can't say it is more or less than anywhere else

dsmythy

jonny72 wrote: »

If any of you have been to relatively 'normal' European countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, etc.. I think you'll notice there are hardly any homegrown vicious scumbags in these countries..

Why are there so many of them in Ireland? I've been beaten up twice, chased, and I consider getting off lightly. My friend just had his face half ripped off by a pack of scumbags, one of whom had just been released on bail and was out attacking people a few days later.

Most of us just shrug and seem to think its normal, its the same in Scotland, Wales and England too.. but just cross the channel.. and the situation completely and utterly changes.

Our prison system is ineffective

I'm sorry but everything you said is simply not true. Try hanging around certain parts of Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin and i'd imagine you'll come across the same thing.

jonny72

Ive been living abroad in various European countries for 7 years. In those 7 years I actually haven't seen a single fight, and have only had 2 minor incidents.

Right now I am living in apparently the one of the worst neighbourhoods in Brussels, right beside Gare Midi. I go out a lot, I don't have a car, so I walk everywhere and I have a good few friends here, with the exception of one pickpocket experience, I don't or hear about the things I would witness in Ireland on a weekly basis.

Take seven years in Ireland, I've lived in Dublin and Limerick, I've seen so many fights, had rocks thrown at me, had my windows smashed in, been harrassed god knows how many times on the bus and dart. Had a knife held to my leg, been mugged, quite a few of my friends have been attacked.. I consider myself pretty good at avoiding trouble

However, the strange thing was, when I lived back in Ireland, it was just a part of daily life, barely noticed it, was very aware when I was out, where to avoid, all that, just part and parcel of normal life.

Going abroad changed that, sure there's stuff that goes on, pickpockets, but that particular brand of random motively violence/harrassment/vandalism just isn't nearly as prevalent over here on the continent (well with the exception of some Eastern european countries and some other places)

Think of Dublin now, and the no go areas after dark, mentally list them... in Brussels right now, and I know this city very well, there's only 2 or 3 areas I wouldn't go, thats really stretching it, all the pubs I go to are practically on rue anspach, I walk through Lemonnier and then through Midi on the way back, the only hassle I get are homeless people asking for money and the odd morroccan asking for a light.

Anyway if the statistics say different I must be imagining things.

Manic Moran

There is an apparently higher amount of low-end disorderliness in Ireland, I don't think it can be denied. It's not just a factor of avoiding certain parts of the city, as in Dublin those certain parts seem to manage to migrate to the city centre whenever it is that I'm leaving the pub.

I've rarely had the same level of 'loutishness' displayed upon me when I go to down the pub in town in Vienna, The Hague, San Francisco or whatnot.

NTM

fasterkitten

jonny72 wrote: »

Anyway if the statistics say different I must be imagining things.

Quite.

CamperMan

jonny72 wrote: »

If any of you have been to relatively 'normal' European countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, etc.. I think you'll notice there are hardly any homegrown vicious scumbags in these countries..

Why are there so many of them in Ireland? I've been beaten up twice, chased, and I consider getting off lightly. My friend just had his face half ripped off by a pack of scumbags, one of whom had just been released on bail and was out attacking people a few days later.

Most of us just shrug and seem to think its normal, its the same in Scotland, Wales and England too.. but just cross the channel.. and the situation completely and utterly changes.

Our prison system is ineffective

you must live in a rough part of Ireland... maybe Limerick

Lab_Mouse

Well OP what are you doing over here that your not doing over there?:D

Also why is this in politics?maybe AH or ranting and raving?

copacetic

Manic Moran wrote: »

There is an apparently higher amount of low-end disorderliness in Ireland, I don't think it can be denied. It's not just a factor of avoiding certain parts of the city, as in Dublin those certain parts seem to manage to migrate to the city centre whenever it is that I'm leaving the pub.

I've rarely had the same level of 'loutishness' displayed upon me when I go to down the pub in town in Vienna, The Hague, San Francisco or whatnot.

NTM

It certainly can as you an see from the rest of the thread, Dublin is like any other biggish city and a lot safer than most.

CamperMan

Ireland on the whole is a safe place to be... unless your living on some sh!tty council estate full of teenage drug abusers and fueding drug gangs

masteroftherealm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

and Dublin isn't half as bad as somewhere like Paris. I've never been to the other countries you mention though.

Having lived in Paris I walked around knowing that I was asafe in all of the central Arrondisment, whereas living in Dublin I most certainly didn't feel safe.

There is a constant police presence in Paris, the one time I did get mugged a gendarme caught the guy less than 400m from where he attacked me. I have been mugged over 10 times in Dublin never once had a Garda near enough to catch anyone.

I wont disagree that Dublin doesnt have a much higher crime rate, but the policing and the general feel of being safe is worlds apart. I many many times wandered around the "dodgier" parts of Paris at night with a camera. Wouldnt dream of doing it in Dublin, hell I even ut my gear away going home when I lived in Smithfield.

Wertz

Cool Mo D wrote: »

For example, the Netherlands has a population of 20 million, and recorded 111,000 violent crimes in 2007. Ireland has a population of 4 million and recorded 17,000 violent crimes in 2007. Denmark recorded 20,000 violent crimes, with 5 million people, Sweden recorder 108,000 violent crimes in 2007 with a population of 9 million. This is according to http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/crime/data/database

Key word here being "recorded". Repeated sufferers of crime and violence in Ireland are probably less likely to report the incident/attack to the gardaí who, due primarily to the court and penal systems, tend to be able to do little to deter the level of crime here or even manage to keep the perps off the street for longer than a few weeks. I'd also be of the opinion that an unarmed and poorly equipped police force is seen as little deterrent to the criminally minded (as are the sentences handed out for convictions).
I'd also question what in fact "recorded" means...does it mean the reporting of a crime was recorded? Or was it that the conviction was the thing that was recorded? Two very different figures.


I can't speak for other cities on the continent but I've never felt so much as threatened on the streets of Amsterdam (and I don't mean the main thoroughfares), at almost any time of the day or night...that's not to say that it's not a dangerous place, just that the perception is it's safer because of the level of police presence and the lack of the huge drink culture we see on the streets of the UK and Ireland after the pubs let out.
The ability of the inebriated scumbag to lash out, rob, stab or whatever the passing law abiding citizen and get away with it due to strength in numbers and the lack of enforcement should not be underestimated. Statistics have little bearing on the perceived realities as far as I'm concerned.

murphaph

jonny72 wrote: »

Anyway if the statistics say different I must be imagining things.

It all depends how seriously the police in each country take complaints and if such complaints are made in the first place!

Example of difference in police mentality and priorities:
In Germany, I have been at many parties in the inner courtyard of an apartment block (BBQ) and the police have been called because of the noise. They turn up quickly and in force for such things. EVERYTHING is taken seriously once a complaint is made.

In Ireland I was the victim of a hit and run involving me on my motorcycle being almost killed, my bike being written off and the guards being more interested in the fact that I'd failed to register the bike as Irish despite having bought it about a week beforehand in Englad (supposed to be registeredwithin 24 hrs, but BIGGER PICTURE please Guard!).

Priorities are all wrong. I have heard Guards at the public desk telling people to "sort things out amongst themselves" etc. In short, Irish crime statistics are not to be trusted. LOTS of assault victims in Ireland never even report the assault.

Edit: wertz beat me too it. Continental cities are safer. The fear of being attacked, even from women is very low. There's no part of Berlin I wouldn't walk through at 3am. Can't say that for Dublin even at 3pm. Sad, but true.

seclachi

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Having lived in Paris I walked around knowing that I was asafe in all of the central Arrondisment, whereas living in Dublin I most certainly didn't feel safe.

There is a constant police presence in Paris, the one time I did get mugged a gendarme caught the guy less than 400m from where he attacked me. I have been mugged over 10 times in Dublin never once had a Garda near enough to catch anyone.

I wont disagree that Dublin doesnt have a much higher crime rate, but the policing and the general feel of being safe is worlds apart. I many many times wandered around the "dodgier" parts of Paris at night with a camera. Wouldnt dream of doing it in Dublin, hell I even ut my gear away going home when I lived in Smithfield.

Time to leave Dublin methinks !

OP, try talking to the locals in some of those country's, you`ll find there alot more dangerous than you think. There has been a fair few riots in many European citys in the past decades, in ireland the only thing that jumps to mind was love ulster.

I think for really dangerous crime were quite good, the country goes up in arms every time there is a gang related murder, but these seem to be gang on gang. I have heard stories of gangs walking into restaurants in Denmark and spraying bullets all over the place just because a few rivals were in there.

Its all about where you are too, if your visiting a country your not likely to stay in scumbag areas as your not renting / purchasing a house.

I think where we are worse is general scumbaggery, and the 2am club close where the streets just turn into zoos.

Pride Fighter

jonny72 wrote: »

Take seven years in Ireland, I've lived in Dublin and Limerick,

Thats your problem there. Try living in Nottingham for comparison, the British Limerick but instead of stabbings there is shootings.

Zuiderzee

Been around a fair bit and got to say I find the low level yobbishness worst in Ireland and Britain - obviouly nothing statistical, just personal observation.
I lived for quite some time in South Rotterdam, which has a bad rep - but saw very little in the way of crime

simplistic

What makes you think the gardai can prevent crime?

The welfare state creates crime offering women money and an apartment for having children creates crime.

lightening

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I have been mugged over 10 times in Dublin never once had a Garda near enough to catch anyone

That is amazing. You are doing something wrong Master. Seriously. How could you have been mugged over ten times in Dublin of all places? It's one of the safest cities in the world. I have been knocking around town for years, lived in a well known inner city area walked home every night during the weekends and have once had a failed mugging. I still go in to town most weekends and avoid trouble without fail. Were they the same people or associates of each other targeting you as a soft touch? Do you lead a very patterned life so they knew when to hit you? Are you street wise? Are you alert to your surroundings? I am not having a go at you, I just feel bad for you. That is an unbelievably amount of bad luck.

masteroftherealm

Heheh yes Im streetwise, grew up in Dublin City Center, trained in martial arts of 2 sorts.
However I am also streetwise enough to hand over a wallet as opposed to getting stabbed/stuck with a possibly infected needed.

And I am not alone in my situation. Many of my friends/coworkers have had somilar experiences.

As for Dublin being a safe city, I hope your being sarcastic or haven't traveled/lived in other European cities before otherwise your very out of touch with the reality of how dangerous Dublin is in comparison to other cities.

I worked on a contract once, with a guy from Colombia, grew up in Bogota, worked his way out from a very poverty and drugs ridden area. Knew what real violence and danger was. He hated this city and moved out soon after, he found it too dangerous.

CamperMan

masteroftherealm wrote: »

. I have been mugged over 10 times in Dublin never once had a Garda near enough to catch anyone..

you must live next to this guy....

lightening

masteroftherealm wrote: »

As for Dublin being a safe city, I hope your being sarcastic or haven't traveled/lived in other European cities

No, and yes and no. No being sarcastic, I have not lived in any other European cities, but have traveled a good bit in South East Asia, Africa, Australia and lots of other places. Go to Milan, Athens, Rome, much more dangerous.

Were you really mugged over ten times in Dublin? Amazing. I guess I have been socialising and knocking around town for about twenty years now and have had two close shaves, both of which I got out of.

masteroftherealm

Well my own experience would be primarily in Europe and a spell in Los Angeles.
I think its more a case of you being a lucky one than me being the unlucky one :P

copacetic

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Well my own experience would be primarily in Europe and a spell in Los Angeles.
I think its more a case of you being a lucky one than me being the unlucky one :P

I'm similar to lightening, going out in Dublin for 20 years or so and never really had a issue.

lightening

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Well my own experience would be primarily in Europe and a spell in Los Angeles.
I think its more a case of you being a lucky one than me being the unlucky one :P

I genuinely feel bad for you. Spent a few months in Los Angeles a few years ago, great weather and good surf and.... em...

Anyway, there are ways of avoiding trouble, simple things, even down to how you walk, where you go, crossing the road when you should cross the road, avoidance, the pace you walk at, how you talk if someone approaches you. Even starting to talk before anything happens can avoid a mugging.

I really hope your luck improves.

jonny72

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Thats your problem there. Try living in Nottingham for comparison, the British Limerick but instead of stabbings there is shootings.

Yeah my two Irish friends moved to a part of Middlesborough, they basically couldn't leave their house after 7pm.

Is Ireland dangerous? its relative, compared to Iraq, no, compared to most countries in Europe (bar UK and eastern europe), then yes.

I am sure the local people in Duala in Cameroon say its not reaaallly that dangerous, yet my friend living down there has been threatened with machetes, etc.

We live with a dreadful low level repeat offender yobbishness that we barely notice anymore, its very sad actually. Unless you live in a very nice area, just think how many pubs and streets and areas you avoid. Even just a few weeks back in Ireland awhile back I saw it all again. Not having a go, its far worse in England I think, but there you go.

masteroftherealm

lightening wrote: »

I genuinely feel bad for you. Spent a few months in Los Angeles a few years ago, great weather and good surf and.... em...

Anyway, there are ways of avoiding trouble, simple things, even down to how you walk, where you go, crossing the road when you should cross the road, avoidance, the pace you walk at, how you talk if someone approaches you. Even starting to talk before anything happens can avoid a mugging.

I really hope your luck improves.

I appreciate you sentiment, but however my point is I shouldn't have to.
Why should I live a life on edge in Dublin as opposed to knowing that the police force is out doing that for me, it is their job is it not.

lightening

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I appreciate you sentiment, but however my point is I shouldn't have to.
Why should I live a life on edge in Dublin as opposed to knowing that the police force is out doing that for me, it is their job is it not.

Fair enough. I don't live on a knife edge though, far from it. I just keep my wits about me. There are lots of things I shouldn't have to do, but I do them. I do think you are exceptionally unlucky though. Mugged over ten times in a city like Dublin... I can't remember the last time any one of my friends, male, female from all walks of life was mugged in Dublin. Not saying it doesn't happen of course.

supersaint3

that's such a simplistic attitude master. What about the resourcing of the police? etc. it's all very well to want to have a garda on every corner, but will the govt pay for it? will the people of the country when they're asked to ? No.

nesf

I just find this odd, have lived in Cork for about a decade and never once had any trouble and can count the number of times I've seen someone else in trouble on less than one hand. I saw way more fights back home in the countryside where I grew up. I appreciate Dublin is quite different for a variety of reasons (the lack of many heroin addicts in Cork makes muggings that much less likely) but Ireland as a whole dangerous? No. Not really. Yeah Dublin and Limerick have some real no-go areas but by and large the country isn't too bad.