Why is Ireland so dangerous

pawrick

just out of interest - does anyone else here think that some people seem to attract bad situations? I have a mate who has been mugged 3 times in past year for no apparent reason, he's just been walking home from work through normal areas around 10/11pm, he's a sound guy who doesn't drink and has never started an argument (this is in London but applies everywhere).

On the other hand I have lived in a few dodgy areas of Dublin - I would see general stuff like drunks arguing amongst them selves etc. and once a guy got stabbed outside my old apartment, but in all the cases I saw it was between people who already knew each other or acted stupid and got involved with random drunken knackers.

I feel safe walking around Dublin at night and have felt safe in every city I have visited outside of Ireland but I always make certain to be aware of my surroundings.

Cops with guns - in my opinion this just invites the criminals to carry guns/knifes also. If worse came to worse I''d rather take my chances being attacked by an unarmed criminal then an armed one.

Paulj

pawrick wrote: »

just out of interest - does anyone else here think that some people seem to attract bad situations?

I would tend to agree with this. I don't know is it that some people have awful hard luck, or is it something about their body language that scumbags don't like. Hard to put my finger on it. There was a thread on here about this very issue about a year ago and many people had annecdotal evidence that this statement is true. Hard to understand all the same!

I'd prefer not to have armed cops. But a more visible presence would be good.

Angry Troll

Paulj wrote: »

[...]

I'd prefer not to have armed cops. But a more visible presence would be good.

well, as things stand irish criminals can always count on cops to be unarmed and helpless when faced with weapons and real violence and they know they are perfectly safe to get away undisturbed even after the worst crimes before any “real” armed police can possibly arrive at the scene…an armed cop is just much more likely to be taken seriously by any perp…maybe committing crimes and getting away with it is just to easy in this country…
in contrast we cannot count on anything with criminals, they may be armed or not and you might only find out when it’s too late…and it doesn’t even have to be guns, knives are lethal weapons too and are best countered with a bullet…i believe in cops being armed…it works in other countries…

murphaph

Cops having guns doesn't automatically imply that gun crime will be high, even when guns are held in large quantities in private hands it doesn't mean that (Switzerland for example). There's a mentality that goes with it that produces the gun deaths.

The police here are all armed. My next door neighbour is a cop actually. I feel fine that they are armed. I feel it does act as a deterrant here, for whatever reason. Cops are taken very seriously here, perhaps because they conduct themselves in a manner befitting police officers. Police presence is also very noticable in cities here.

Violent crime is rare.

Angry Troll

murphaph wrote: »

Cops having guns doesn't automatically imply that gun crime will be high, even when guns are held in large quantities in private hands it doesn't mean that (Switzerland for example). There's a mentality that goes with it that produces the gun deaths.

The police here are all armed. My next door neighbour is a cop actually. I feel fine that they are armed. I feel it does act as a deterrant here, for whatever reason. Cops are taken very seriously here, perhaps because they conduct themselves in a manner befitting police officers. Police presence is also very noticable in cities here.

Violent crime is rare.

yep, exactly...and you are right about mentality being the main factor for gun crime...most swiss have assault rifles at home...imagine the carnage they could cause if they wanted to...though i think there's been discussion in switzerland about changing that...the rifles at home i mean...

monosharp

lightening wrote: »

Could, should, would, might etc... So you actually have never seen five to ten fights in one night in Ireland?

Yes I have, more then once. But my point was never you see 5-10 fights every night anywhere you go.

You are beginning to sound like the very people you are talking about! Living away from home, thinking you know it all, getting in to fights with other ex-pats in ex-pat bars to be honest!

Actually it was at a ski resort and a buddhist temple, not ex-pat bars.

Angry Troll

and wtf is this again... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1221/breaking43.htm goddammit...seems like they find one of those every couple of weeks somewhere in this country...

Papad

lightening wrote: »

That is amazing. You are doing something wrong Master. Seriously. How could you have been mugged over ten times in Dublin of all places? It's one of the safest cities in the world.

Not my experience. I find it to be one of the worst (relatively speaking, but you can always compare it to Rio, or Johannesburg if it makes you feel better). The lack of proper reporting is not doing it any service. And I am not basing my opinions against one of those 6 month travel-around-the-world trips. I'm long in the tooth and lived in many other cities.

ROS123

There are a few things that come across from the posts. Other cities are larger, a lot of the trouble is kept out of the city centre, the affluent areas. The presence of Police on the streets and a real deterent. We have no police on the streets where and when they are needed, despite the wonderful allowance they vehemently defend on another thread. We need thom out there at closing times. The lack of a deterrent, jail is like a holiday / break for them. this was obvioue form the primetime report last week on petty crime. They see it as an occupational hazard, a few months of the streets.

We need a ploice presence at closing times, in all towns and cities, we need them to repsond when they are there, not turn a blind eye or walk away. They do need to have the appropriate manpower for this. This will act as a deterrent, if these scumbags think that they will be arrested and the ultimate deterrent, a long spell in a less comfortable prison, maybe followed up with cuts in their socail welfare unti lthey show signs of improvement. I just thought of the last bit (SW cut), probably not possible....

Liam Byrne

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Also, just because you see teenagers in tracksuits sitting on a corner does not mean they're planning on robbing you, even if they are drinking cans.

Fact is that teenagers shouldn't be drinking, let alone doing it in a very public "two fingers to society" place.

lightening

monosharp wrote: »

But my point was never you see 5-10 fights every night anywhere you go

I don't know what you mean.

OldJay

jonny72 wrote: »

If any of you have been to relatively 'normal' European countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, etc.. I think you'll notice there are hardly any homegrown vicious scumbags in these countries..

Really? How do you figure that one then?

murphaph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Fact is that teenagers shouldn't be drinking

18 and 19 year olds might disagree with that one Liam!

southsiderosie

kickoutthejams wrote: »

While I notice a lot less violence and organised crime in Ireland than anywhere I've lived on the continent, Ireland seems to have a lot more low-end loutishness, especially at night. Nothing too bad but I work in a Belgian pub and have never seen any fights, people throwing up, passed out in the street, either in the pub, when walking home from work or from just being out in general (ok, did see one guy passed out but he was English)

I currently live in Madrid (after living in Dublin for a few months), and I would agree - the "yob" factor that exists in Ireland and England doesn't really seem to exist in Spain. I live in a neighborhood that most Spaniards think is kind of sketchy, but I don't feel unsafe walking home at night, and although there are five bars on my block alone, I have never seen barfights, people literally being thrown out of the door, people puking on the curb, etc...there aren't even any bouncers. Actually, come to think of it, the only bars in Madrid where I regularly see bouncers are in the tourist areas of the city center at the Irish bars (O'Connell Street, O'Neill's, etc.).

I enjoyed my time in Ireland, but I found the randomness of crime and "anti-social behavior" to be really disconcerting. I grew up in the US in a pretty rough city, but you learn quickly what areas to avoid and what the signals are. That's a lot harder to do in Dublin, because "yobs" aren't limited to peripheral areas, and drunken idiocy at night isn't limited to certain "scenes" either. Yes it's easier to "hide away" drug addicts and panhandlers in larger cities, but I honestly don't understand why the garda tolerate a lot of what goes on in the city center. That said, I didn't really worry about getting shot when I went to a carry-out at night (at home most of the take-aways in my area have thick bulletproof windows), so I guess that was somewhat of an improvement.

pawrick

madrid - got lost in the city one night with 4 friends. asked for directions from two guys walking along. Turns out they were drug dealers and had lived in Dublin. Anyhow they explained to us that we were in a very bad area and really we should go back the direction we came from - nice guys apart from the obvious. as we walked back following their advise we looked down a side ally to see people fighting /someone being beaten up no idea and didn't want to get involved in a place we weren't familiar with. Basically you find this everywhere but it's more visable in Dublin as you have the bad areas mixed through out the city.

monosharp

lightening wrote: »

I don't know what you mean.

Read the entire paragraph.

masteroftherealm

Justind wrote: »

Really? How do you figure that one then?

Because those of us who have LIVED in these countries haven't seen it, have had no exposure to it, have not had to deal with the same crap as Dublin has.

lightening

monosharp wrote: »

Yes I have, more then once. But my point was never you see 5-10 fights every night anywhere you go.

Actually it was at a ski resort and a buddhist temple, not ex-pat bars.

So, you say you have gone out in Ireland and seen five to ten fights. I don't know what you mean when you say "But my point was never you see 5-10 fights every night anywhere you go". I'm not being smart, I just don't understand what you are saying. Could be misworded or could be that I'm thick!

And I understand the other part, you have been in fights in a ski resort and a Buddhist temple. I have been to loads of both places and managed to avoid fights.

masteroftherealm

lightening wrote: »

Could, should, would, might etc... So you actually have never seen five to ten fights in one night in Ireland?

You are beginning to sound like the very people you are talking about! Living away from home, thinking you know it all, getting in to fights with other ex-pats in ex-pat bars to be honest!

Well I will happily concur with monosharp.
And thankfully have never spent a single cent in an ex-pat/Irish bar while living abroad.

So on the basis of experience, your wrong, yes I have seen fights in Dublin on a scale vastly larger than any other city I have lived in.

masteroftherealm

He was saying that you dont see that level of thuggery in other cityies.

OldJay

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Because those of us who have LIVED in these countries haven't seen it, have had no exposure to it, have not had to deal with the same crap as Dublin has.

That would be a generalist assumption. Oslo would be deemed a pretty 'safe' city except for those silly little gang wars when folk are shooting each other in nightclubs or slicing each other up with samurai swords on Youngstorget. Closing time in the city centre not a very nice time to be around either. :rolleyes:
To say that the cities in the original post are 'safe' while Dublin is some version of Baghdad and Kabul rolled into one is just silly.

jonny72

Justind wrote: »

That would be a generalist assumption. Oslo would be deemed a pretty 'safe' city except for those silly little gang wars when folk are shooting each other in nightclubs or slicing each other up with samurai swords on Youngstorget. Closing time in the city centre not a very nice time to be around either. :rolleyes:
To say that the cities in the original post are 'safe' while Dublin is some version of Baghdad and Kabul rolled into one is just silly.

In Dublin the crime/vandalism/harassment is very visible and mostly goes unreported. I am saying you are much more likely to get beaten up/harrassed in Dublin than you are in Brussels, or Madrid, etc

Its common knowledge in Italy than Naples is a much dodgier place than say Florence. Ireland is a much dodgier place than a lot of European countries like Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, etc.

I told my friend this, she came over for three days and on the first day in Dublin, walking down grafton street, we saw 2 kids with a huge big bolt cutters nicking bikes.. she'd never seen anything like that in her life before.. did I report that crime? nope, did anyone? nope. We just block it all out. Just like I did when I lived here. Live abroad, then you realise.

lightening

jonny72 wrote: »

we saw 2 kids with a huge big bolt cutters nicking bikes.. she'd never seen anything like that in her life before.. did I report that crime?

Why didn't you report it? Most people would have, I would have and have reported stuff exactly like that myself.

jonny72 wrote: »

Live abroad, then you realise.

I have lived abroad dude. You do what every Irish person does when they go abroad, justify it by talking your country down, I did it too. The thread is named "why is Ireland so dangerous" It's not, according to the World Health Organisation it's the safest country in Europe.

masteroftherealm

lightening wrote: »

Why didn't you report it? Most people would have, I would have and have reported stuff exactly like that myself.



I have lived abroad dude. You do what every Irish person does when they go abroad, justify it by talking your country down, I did it too. The thread is named "why is Ireland so dangerous" It's not, according to the World Health Organisation it's the safest country in Europe.

No offense but I think you must have lived in some of the more out there parts of the world, my own comment wasn't directed towards you, but I get the impressions you've traveled in ex conflict zones, in post reform Asia? Not exactly Paris or Berlin are they? We're comparing European cities by and large here.

OldJay

jonny72 wrote: »

In Dublin the crime/vandalism/harassment is very visible and mostly goes unreported. I am saying you are much more likely to get beaten up/harrassed in Dublin than you are in Brussels, or Madrid, etc

Its common knowledge in Italy than Naples is a much dodgier place than say Florence. Ireland is a much dodgier place than a lot of European countries like Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, etc.

I told my friend this, she came over for three days and on the first day in Dublin, walking down grafton street, we saw 2 kids with a huge big bolt cutters nicking bikes.. she'd never seen anything like that in her life before.. did I report that crime? nope, did anyone? nope. We just block it all out. Just like I did when I lived here. Live abroad, then you realise.

Way too generalistic. Especially with, given my own experience there, your inclusion of Spain in your list.
I have lived overseas.
Greece, Israel, Australia, Norway and being a regular visitor to Denmark and Sweden (no, I'm not a spy lol). Hang around Zürich Hauptbahnhof for a day and tell us how you got on. Head out on La Canabiere in Marseilles and do same.
Some cities, since thats what we're talking about, are indeed 'safer' than Dublin but to whip out a list of countries and declare that they're safer en bloc is just naive.

lightening

masteroftherealm wrote: »

No offense but I think you must have lived in some of the more out there parts of the world, my own comment wasn't directed towards you, but I get the impressions you've traveled in ex conflict zones, in post reform Asia? Not exactly Paris or Berlin are they? We're comparing European cities by and large here.

No offense taken at all, I'm enjoying the banter. You are right, I have never lived in a European city for more than a few weeks. I am in and out of various regions in the world, but I also holiday in Ireland a lot and spend a lot of time in Dublin city. It's my experience that Ireland is a very very safe place to live.

masteroftherealm

Justind wrote: »

Way too generalistic. Especially with, given my own experience there, your inclusion of Spain in your list.
I have lived overseas.
Greece, Israel, Australia, Norway and being a regular visitor to Denmark and Sweden (no, I'm not a spy lol). Hang around Zürich Hauptbahnhof for a day and tell us how you got on. Head out on La Canabiere in Marseilles and do same.
Some cities, since thats what we're talking about, are indeed 'safer' than Dublin but to whip out a list of countries and declare that they're safer en bloc is just naive.

Yes I would agree with you here.

But if we take the Central Business Disctrict of the 3 Main Cities in most EU countries and compare with CBD of Dublin..... Then the contract becomes stark.

OldJay

masteroftherealm wrote: »

But if we take the Central Business Disctrict of the 3 Main Cities in most EU countries and compare with CBD of Dublin..... Then the contract becomes stark.

No it doesn't. This is my point: you're generalising too much.

masteroftherealm

lightening wrote: »

No offense taken at all, I'm enjoying the banter. You are right, I have never lived in a European city for more than a few weeks. I am in and out of various regions in the world, but I also holiday in Ireland a lot and spend a lot of time in Dublin city. It's my experience that Ireland is a very very safe place to live.

I can say I could see how you could get that impressiona, but the longer you stay here the much more apparent it becomes, when it goes from ah that just happens, to ah that just happens every night... it gets more apparent.

lightening

I guess I am lucky enough to live in a nice area. Mind you, I lived in what would be perceived to be a very rough area near the city center and never felt threatened or unsafe. I don't put up with much either I'm not part of the "ah, sure that happens" brigade. If I have a problem I call the gards and tell them I am going to sort it out myself if you are not here within half an hour. They usually arrive in time.