Best dog breed for our young children

peasant

I don't really like the way this discussion is going in general.

Dogs are not a clearly specified product. You cannot go through the breed catalogue and pick a guaranteed child friendly dog. It's not in the breed, it's how you raise them (mostly anyway)

One could turn the question around: Can someone please tell me which kind of woman I should have children with so that our kids would get along with our dogs?

Ridiculous, isn't it?

Well ...so is asking for a child friendly breed of dog.

Neilw

Angry Troll wrote: »

there are just too many known incidents of bull terriers etc. tearing children apart...not very many of those reports include labrador/golden retrievers...

Do you have any facts to backup the attacks by bull terriers on children, I can't think of one single attack by that individual breed at all.
Have you any experience of this breed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Terrier

seamus

peasant wrote: »

One could turn the question around: Can someone please tell me which kind of woman I should have children with so that our kids would get along with our dogs?

That's not actually an entirely fair comparison - genetic variation in dogs is much greater than genetic variation in humans and selective breeding can be used to develop particular characteristics of the animal. Dogs are suited to this because of a short gestation period and early maturity. So from the birth of a pup you can conceivably breed 4 descendent generations of dog from that pup within 4 years.

OK, it's an aside but your actual point is correct - temperament and social skills are acquired attributes of dogs just like they are of people. They are largely passed from bitch to pup in the first two months of the pup's life, which is why it seems like a particular trait is "bred" - every bitch passes the same social skills down through the generations. This is why some breeds are stoutly loyal to a single owner and other breeds seem to naturally want to hunt rats and rodents.

dmy1001

OP

I think the type of dog really depends a lot on your lifestyle. are you home a lot or are you outdoor people? It makes a BIG difference for the breed of dog and the sanity of the household. Getting an active dog for an inactive family spells disaster and misery no matter what the breed.

peasant

seamus wrote: »

temperament and social skills are acquired attributes of dogs just like they are of people. They are largely passed from bitch to pup in the first two months of the pup's life, which is why it seems like a particular trait is "bred" - every bitch passes the same social skills down through the generations. This is why some breeds are stoutly loyal to a single owner and other breeds seem to naturally want to hunt rats and rodents.

Seriously ?

Social skills are fed through the mother's milk? There's not a lot a bitch can teach its pups in eight weeks. Basic dog behaviour, yes. The sense of being cared for, yes.Tthe meaning of (doggy) body language and vocal expressions, yes ...but "loyalty to its owner" or how to hunt vermin ...err, that would be a no.

What is true however is that there are certain types of dogs ...hunters, herders, guardians etc. Back in the days when dogs were still selectively bred for ability (instead of appearance) only the best at their job got to propagate. From that certain instinctual behaviour was emphasized or neglected with the result that your typical Terrier would try and hunt anything small and your typical Collie would try to round up anything in sight ...but that's pretty much it as far as genetic behavioral traits go.

But even that typical behaviour (ie. true to type) has been watered down over the last few decades. Dogs get bred for appearance and not ability, all sorts of characters get to multiply. Furthermore, types of dogs are rarely bred from within their environement anymore either. These days your Alaskan Malamute does not come from a sledging station far up north but from somebodies living room in Thermonfeckin (or worse ..a puppy farm), your Border Collie stems from an agility champion from Rome.

Claims that such and such a breed is guaranteed to be perfectly child friendly are wishful thinking at best, dangerous at worst.
In Germany, the oh so child friendly Golden Retriever was in such demand and so overbred that people are now advised not to mix Goldens and kids as they as a breed have become very nervous and unpredictable.

How your future dog interacts with your children is 80% training and upbringing, 19% the individual character of the dog and 1% breed.

For a first dog to live with children, the only dog I would recommend with good conscience is a slightly older (rescue) dog that has been assessed and is proven to to like kids.

And then there would be the tiny matter of making your kids like and respect the dog as well

Whispered

How many threads do we have to have turn into a "dangerous dogs" vs "nice cuddly dogs".

Angry troll you obviously have your mind made up about certain breeds and far be it for me to tell you you are wrong. But I would suggest a bit of research.

There are only 2 out of 164 registered CKC breeds that by their very breed standard must be good with children: Staffordshire Bull terrier is one of them.

When university researchers in the UK were asked to rate the best 10 breeds for children they selected the Staffordshire Bull Terrier for their list based on its "bomb-proof" nature.

Most importantly, when researchers in Germany studied inappropriate aggression in several breeds they found the same level of inappropriate displays of aggression across all the dogs in the studies with one "notable" exception. None of the Staffordshire Bull Terriers displayed any types of aggression disorders. (The same could not be said for the test group of Golden Retrievers.)The history of this breed does go back to dog fighting in the 1800s. However, this does not make them fundamentally different from other breeds. In fact, 88 of the 164 recognized CKC breeds were originally bred to something of equal severity, from hunting and killing fierce predators (including bears, badgers and lions) to biting or attacking people.Few realize that all of the "bully" breeds were killed without hesitation (culled) if they showed any sign of human aggression. These dogs lived in the family homes of poor people; because of this they had to be excellent around families and children in particular. This resulted in a dog of exceptional intelligence and temperament.The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a one of the friendliest and silliest breeds in the dog world. They are highly intelligent and extremely submissive to people.
But what really sets the breed apart is their instinctive love for children. They have earned the title of "nanny dog".

OP, I would say that we all think our chosen breed is the best. I know I do. He's big cuddly and not a bad bone in his body, you can pull out of him and lie on him, shove him out of the way, and he takes it all with a tail wag. I think his breed has very little to do with that. I think it's because we would not accept bad moods or snappy agressive behaviour. I think that most breeds would be good with children, if they are thought to be good with children.

My main recommendation is to get a dog which suits your energy level and which would be a suitable size for kids. Something big enough to wrestle with the kids without getting badly hurt, but small enough to not badly hurt them with an accidental headbutt or by sitting on them etc.

peasant

Few realize that all of the "bully" breeds were killed without hesitation (culled) if they showed any sign of human aggression. These dogs lived in the family homes of poor people; because of this they had to be excellent around families and children in particular. This resulted in a dog of exceptional intelligence and temperament.The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a one of the friendliest and silliest breeds in the dog world. They are highly intelligent and extremely submissive to people.
But what really sets the breed apart is their instinctive love for children. They have earned the title of "nanny dog".

While this is essentially correct, there is one important point missing from this article:

Bull breeds can be dog aggressive. That is one point to keep in mind when thinking about sending your eight year old out to play with the "nanny dog" in tow ...he won't enjoy it one bit watching his dog tear neighbour's Fido to pieces.

Whispered

peasant wrote: »

Bull breeds can be dog aggressive. That is one point to keep in mind when thinking about sending your eight year old out to play with the "nanny dog" in tow ...he won't enjoy it one bit watching his dog tear neighbour's Fido to pieces.

I never took you to be a sensationalist peasant. Any dog can be agressive. Also many non agressive dogs can get into a fight. Of course a bigger dog will do more damage. I didn't think it necessary to point out to the op not to leave his child unsupervised with a dog, particurlarly when around another dog.

duckysauce

back on topic springer spaniels are great with kids, dog is extremely gentle with them, but the dog needs a huge amount of excerise and work , but a fantasic breed

lrushe

If I was in your position and I wasn't too familiar with the pro's and con's of the different dog breeds I would go to a shelter and find the dog that fits your family rather than the breed that fits your family. As so many people have pointed out no one breed is essentially good or bad with children, it depends on the individual dog so a shelter / rescue would be the best place to 'test drive' a dog to decide if it fits you, your family and your life style.

Angry Troll

Neilw wrote: »

Do you have any facts to backup the attacks by bull terriers on children, I can't think of one single attack by that individual breed at all.
Have you any experience of this breed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Terrier

well, i am surely no dog expert, it is just something i remember as common knowledge from back in the day when my family (we had a black labrador bitch) and others we knew had dogs, mainly back in the late 70s, 80s and early 90s back home in germany…and i remember there were cases of nasty “accidents” involving bullterriers and children or other dogs and the breed are widely classified as dangerous in germany and other countries…i also find it a tad irritating that here in ireland most people you see with bullterriers are somewhat dodgy hoody types…i just do not like nor trust any of those type of breeds…just my opinion…

peasant

helena.ryan wrote: »

I never took you to be a sensationalist peasant. Any dog can be agressive. Also many non agressive dogs can get into a fight. Of course a bigger dog will do more damage. I didn't think it necessary to point out to the op not to leave his child unsupervised with a dog, particurlarly when around another dog.

Nothing to do with being sensationalist ...it's the same breeding that turned the Staffy into the "nanny dog" that gave it an inherant aggressiveness towards other dogs. You can't highlight the one without at least mentioning the other ...fair's fair.
And forewarned is forearmed and all that ...same as raising any dog to be good with children, you can also raise a Staffie/Pittie to be good around other dogs, you just mustn't "forget" to do so because (s)he is such an angel with the children.

duckysauce

not the dogs fault his owner is a scumbag:)

peasant

Angry Troll wrote: »

the breed are widely classified as dangerous in germany and other countries

...in a political knee-jerk reaction to one terrible incident in Hamburg.

You would probably also be aware then that most "dangerous breeds" pass the aptitude tests with flying colours.

"Breedism" is the same as racism ...just towards a different species.

(and incidentically ...the German word for breed and race is one and the same, isn't it, Angry Troll )

lrushe

Didn't the women to get the first face transplant in France have her face eaten off my her Golden Retriever????? I think I read an article here that said the only breeds never to be involved in a bite incident were Bassett Hounds and Beagles.

Angry Troll

peasant wrote: »

...in a political knee-jerk reaction to one terrible incident in Hamburg.

You would probably also be aware then that most "dangerous breeds" pass the aptitude tests with flying colours.

"Breedism" is the same as racism ...just towards a different species.

(and incidentically ...the German word for breed and race is one and the same, isn't it, Angry Troll )

so i am a breedist...okay...and yes, it can be the same word when talking about dogs...

peasant

lrushe wrote: »

I think I read an article here that said the only breeds never to be involved in a bite incident were Bassett Hounds and Beagles.

There's one word missing from that sentence somewhere and that is "statistically"

I'm pretty sure that some Basset Hound or Beagle somewhere has bitten somebody ...it's just never been reported / recorded.

All dogs will bite eventually if you insist on treating them wrong

star-pants

Back on topic if we don't mind?

The Sweeper

Short answer: don't buy by breed.

If you're getting a dog to have with your kids - because remember, you don't get a dog FOR your kids, because they can't walk it, pay for it, take it to the vet or be trusted to feed it and worm it routinely, so it's YOUR dog that YOU own - there are three considerations:

The size of the dog.
The age of the dog.
The individual temperament of the dog.

Large dogs are not necessarily the best for small children. Large dogs can accidentally injure children through rowdy play - especially giant breeds that weigh more than the child does. Additionally, if the worst comes to the worst and a large dog does snap at a child, they can do more damage than a small dog.

Be sure here - I'm not saying that a jack russell can't do as much damage to a toddler as a golden retriever - but a sustained, aggressive attack involving holding and shaking is very, very rare. What would be more common would be a snap from irritation, or in response to rough play, accidental injury or possessiveness over food or a toy. A single snap from a small dog, which it may still injure, may well not do as much damage as a single snap from a large dog.

The age of the dog - young puppies need to be very carefully supervised among small children - because the kids can do damage to the pup. A pup aged six to eight months is still extremely biddable, can be trained, will bond closely to you and is more robust and better able to withstand handling by children. By contrast again, an adult dog of two or three years in age that has been situated with a foster family can make an excellent pet - you know precisely what you're getting, because the dog's temperament is already very well formed. Matching an adult dog to a family through rescue and foster can be very, very successful.

This overlaps with dog temperament. Dogs are bred for physical characteristics, intelligence traits and ingrained behaviours that can be trained up to work, but every dog has its own personality. We've all known labradors that were sweeties and labradors that were psychotic; jack russells that were gorgeous and ones that were savage.

It boils down to this: You cannot purchase an eight week old puppy from anywhere, even the finest breeder in the world, and have its adult temperament absolutely guaranteed because of its breed.

Learn to choose a dog. You want inquisitive, but not cowering; curious, but not aggressive; playful, but not jumping seven feet in the air; biddable, but not obsessed to the point of anxiety; loyal, but not aggressive to strangers. You also want a dog that is specifically good with children. A dog that is good with adults may not respond the same way to small children - small children look like a whole different species to the dog.

K_user

duckysauce wrote: »

back on topic springer spaniels are great with kids, dog is extremely gentle with them, but the dog needs a huge amount of excerise and work , but a fantasic breed

I said the same earlier. Springers are great Dogs, friendly, intelligent and not difficult to train.

But they do need a fair bit of exercise and attention.

K_user

The Sweeper wrote: »

Learn to choose a dog.

Great post Sweeper and very well put.

I mentioned earlier that the best thing the OP could do, if unfamiliar with the Breed, is find someone who owns one and spend some time with them. Introduce the Kids to the dog, see how they react. A little research now is important, after all a Dog will be part of your family for years to come.

star-pants

K-user I've already issued a warning about staying on topic - post deleted

Neilw

Angry Troll wrote: »

well, i am surely no dog expert, it is just something i remember as common knowledge from back in the day when my family (we had a black labrador bitch) and others we knew had dogs, mainly back in the late 70s, 80s and early 90s back home in germany…and i remember there were cases of nasty “accidents” involving bullterriers and children or other dogs and the breed are widely classified as dangerous in germany and other countries…i also find it a tad irritating that here in ireland most people you see with bullterriers are somewhat dodgy hoody types…i just do not like nor trust any of those type of breeds…just my opinion…

I get the impression that you don't actually know what an English bull terrier is. You mentioned hoody types walking them, in the whole of my life I only remember seeing a person walking a bull terrier maybe 4 or 5 times. They are a very rare breed in Ireland. I think you are mixing them up with Staffy's and other bull breeds.

It gets my back up when uneducated people call them pit bulls :rolleyes:

pauly-chops

gypsygirl wrote: »

pauly-chops wrote: »

we got a rottie because they are the most intelligent breed, even more so than german shepards.

QUOTE]

Gotta disagree with you there Pauly, I've had Shepherds & Rotties all my life, both breeds are a big favourite of mine, but the Shepherds are way smarter than the Rotties IMO, Rotts are fantastic family pets, fiercely loyal and protective but certainly not the most intelligent. My 7 month old Rottie Ella is smart enough but Molly my Shepherd is only short of cooking dinner, Waaaayyyy smarter. I agree with ya about the collies though, a lot of them can be snappy if not excercised and socialised properly, they're a highly intelligent dog and need to be worked and stimulated regularly.

Lol ok, I may have been a bit too enthusiatic but a guy down the road has a german shepard and hes finding it tough to train. Im only going on word I got from my vet/trainer but I guess all the german breeds are very intelligent plus im going to be biased LOL. Wanted to get a doberman but cudnt find one at the time. Wudnt trade depeche for the world though.

gypsygirl

pauly-chops wrote: »

gypsygirl wrote: »

Lol ok, I may have been a bit too enthusiatic but a guy down the road has a german shepard and hes finding it tough to train. Im only going on word I got from my vet/trainer but I guess all the german breeds are very intelligent plus im going to be biased LOL. Wanted to get a doberman but cudnt find one at the time. Wudnt trade depeche for the world though.

We have a Doberman as well as the Shepherd and Rottie, he's 7 years old and the soppiest dog ever. Loves having his ears rubbed and just sits staring at ya, Lol. We've had dobbies before, all super smart dogs but this one (Nige) has to be one of the most stupid dogs I've ever known, he's funny though and really affectionate although people who don't know him well find the staring a bit intimidating. He steals food every chance he gets and even when I shout at him he still stands there staring at me, Lol. Nutty mutt

Discodog

Why are people so obsessed with breeds ?. Any dog can be great with children. It is not the dog that governs it's character but the owner. I have two sighthounds & no children but my dogs are superb with children. They were both rescues & were probably kept in kennels. I have socialised them with neighbour's children & more importantly taught the children how to react with the dog. That is the key.

bruno_12345

Sorry I know this might not be the right thread but I do a bit of running & take my 2 Golden Retrievers with me. Anyone know the max. distance that you should run you retrievers.

Indubitable

seamus wrote: »

If you were looking to train a boxer from birth would you choose the child of a 6', 250lbs russian bodybuilder or the child of a 5'5", 150lb Asian man? Neither is naturally aggressive, but clearly one is more suited for physical conflict than the other.

I would clearly pick the asian as bodybuilders are generally not that good at boxing and therefore the asian man without all the bulk would be better suited as they would be faster.




I find the Border Collie to be a great breed of dog. It is not recommended for first time dog owners. They are highly intelligent and are arguably the most intelligent breed of dog in the world, because they are so smart they can be hard handled. When i got my first collie, he was also my first dog and quite a handful until he was around 2 years old and after some intense training. He could open the gate to go outside and all the doors in my house until I trained him not to. Border Collies are also extremely energetic and need alot of physical and mental exercise. Border Collies in general are known to be loyal, friendly and gentle but that depends on the individual dog's tempera.ment

tinkerbell

Newfoundlands are the way to go, especially for young children. They are such a gentle giant!

jamesm5744

Angry Troll your ignorance on this issue is the reason that the American Pit Bull Terrier is tormented.
The APBT is a great Dog with children and in fact it attacks a hell of lot less than a Golden retriever or any other Lab for that matter.
The reason the Pit bull is so good with kids ironically is because when the 'Bull and terrier' fighting dog was first bred only the dogs that could be handled in pain, ie without biting, where deemed suitable for further breeding.

Also its their willingness to please their beloved master that makes them such great fighters and these sick excuses for human beings prey on that character.

Its a horrible irony but it has made the Bull breeds of today, Staffs, Apbt, American Stafforddshire Terriers etc the most loyal, intelligent, loving family dog on the planet.

Im am not coming into this from a position of ignorance, I currnetly own (I mean live with!) two Staffies and a better dog with people you will not find. Dont mean to offend any other breeds, of which Ive had many, but this is what Ive found.

Amongst all the wonderful Dogs Ive had in my life, both a s a child and adult no other breed comes near in this respect.

If you want your children to be both safe and protected, choose a Bully!!