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Help on upgrading please

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    #32
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    foxerv1 wrote: »
    Cheers for all that mate, i have the card ordered, wont be here til maybe the 1st or 2nd of april. I will report improvements then!!! One question, i was looking it up but im not entirely sure of the process, overclocking the cpu, what exactly is the process? How dangerous is it?
    forget it on a Dell, most likely your current airflow is just barely adequate and you cannot OC dells easily. It is possible, i got my old P4 Dell from 2.4Ghz to 2.8Ghz but i wouldnt recommend it( and like i said its not easy :) )


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    #33
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Its a low-heat medium-TDP C2D yet its still on Dell's old mBTX platform so cooling would be a bit better than a stock cooler most likely! If there's an issue odds are the fan/heatsink assembly is caked in dust! :P

    The catch would be the BIOS - Dells are rubbish for that. You'd have to find out top-secret information on how to manually change the FSB speed - it should be possible as even the old Opty360 took FSB1066 CPUs and the refresh took FSB1333 CPUs so there should be some way of jumping that E2160 up to 2.4GHz by forcing the mobo into FSB1066 mode even without OC controls. And I doubt an E2160 would need more volts or produce too much heat at that speed!


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    #34
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Its a low-heat medium-TDP C2D yet its still on Dell's old mBTX platform so cooling would be a bit better than a stock cooler most likely! If there's an issue odds are the fan/heatsink assembly is caked in dust! :P

    The catch would be the BIOS - Dells are rubbish for that. You'd have to find out top-secret information on how to manually change the FSB speed - it should be possible as even the old Opty360 took FSB1066 CPUs and the refresh took FSB1333 CPUs so there should be some way of jumping that E2160 up to 2.4GHz by forcing the mobo into FSB1066 mode even without OC controls. And I doubt an E2160 would need more volts or produce too much heat at that speed!

    Clean as a whistle inside, i make sure of that.... the bios is Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A00... i dont know if thats helpful but thats what dxdiag tells me....


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    #35
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Its what's inside the BIOS that's more interesting! I somehow doubt there'll be anything useful in there unless there's said FSB toggle in there somewhere!

    And is there a jumper on that mobo with "FSB" anything on it? Although it could take a year to look for the teeny blighter if its even there :o


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    #36
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Its what's inside the BIOS that's more interesting! I somehow doubt there'll be anything useful in there unless there's said FSB toggle in there somewhere!

    And is there a jumper on that mobo with "FSB" anything on it? Although it could take a year to look for the teeny blighter if its even there :o


    Honestly, i have no clue? Someone with an idea what to look for would probably have to look at it and see.

    But say i did want to OC, how would i go about that??


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    #37
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Solitaire wrote: »
    The catch would be the BIOS - Dells are rubbish for that. You'd have to find out top-secret information on how to manually change the FSB speed - it should be possible as even the old Opty360 took FSB1066 CPUs and the refresh took FSB1333 CPUs so there should be some way of jumping that E2160 up to 2.4GHz by forcing the mobo into FSB1066 mode even without OC controls. And I doubt an E2160 would need more volts or produce too much heat at that speed!
    unless its changed you just need to find the pll ic and use the number to overclock it. You have to do it in windows though which is kinda crap as it will only remain overclocked until you reboot or if you shut down/boot up

    If its a Phoenix bios though this might work but means replacing the bios chip if its a socket mounted one - http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/147073.html


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    #38
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    I think this is getting a bit OTT now :o

    If there's no simple option to change FSB mode in the BIOS or physically on the mobo itself I ain't telling fox to mess with clockgens or BIOS IC modding or anything! :eek:


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    #39
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    Solitaire wrote: »
    I think this is getting a bit OTT now :o

    If there's no simple option to change FSB mode in the BIOS or physically on the mobo itself I ain't telling fox to mess with clockgens or BIOS IC modding or anything! :eek:
    haha lol, well he did ask :D


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    #40
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    I think this is getting a bit OTT now :o

    If there's no simple option to change FSB mode in the BIOS or physically on the mobo itself I ain't telling fox to mess with clockgens or BIOS IC modding or anything! :eek:

    I would view this as a learning process...... the more i learn now the less i have to ask in the future.... and i am really interested in learning all i can cos we all have to start somewhere.....

    However, i appreciate that messing with stuff your not familiar with can lead to all sorts of bad, so if the consesus is to leave well enough alone then i will happily oblige :)

    And again, thanks for all the help so far!!


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    #41
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    yeah i wouldnt advise messing with it tbh not until you have a bit of confidence and you feel you need more performance.


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    #42
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Can't think of anything right now... you've already got a decent RAM upgrade since last year so its really just the card now. OCIng the CPU a bit would help too but that's optional.

    @ Solitaire.... Gfx card finally came today, working so brilliantly i cant comprehend how i ever did without it!!!

    Just want to say a massive thank you for the advice you gave me, i would honestly be no better off without it!!!:o

    THANK YOU :D


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    #43
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Hi guys, thanks again for all your help, hoping i can pick your brains on a thing or two more :)

    Basically what i have ATM is this:

    2x 1gb ddr2 6400
    1x hd5570 gfx
    1x 1tb HDD
    core 2 duo 1.8ghz (:()

    What i will have in a couple of days is that + http://www.adverts.ie/337108/desktops/dell-d9200-core2-2gb-genuine-vista-nvidia-7900gs/

    I have checked and the ram on that is ddr2 6400(hopefully they will all play nice, would prefer to use 4x1gb rather than have to go for 2x2gb). Basically what i want to do is pick apart both PC's, get a new MOBO with a better processor and throw the best bits in, hopefully without having to change the case ( i intend using the larger d9200 one). Also looking to the idea of using a free upgrade for W7 the missus has to get up to 64bit utilising all available ram if possible.

    The question is for say the likes of Dawn of War 2 or L4D 1 & 2 i probably need a better CPU (best i will have is 2.4ghz as per ad),so is there any reccomendations for say a MOBO/CPU for not too much monies? Or will i even need it?

    Thanks in advance :)


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    #44
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Oh, God... you've been ripped cringe.gif Its a BTX unit! :eek:

    Case - useless. Mobo - useless. CPU - barely useful, on a mobo that can OC it to hell and back, which isn't the default on for sure! RAM - Probably too slow to be useful, you might be lucky. Graphics - useless. At this point in time the HD5570 is probably around the same speed and consumes a fraction of the juice, plus it has vastly superior multimedia capabilities and DX10/11 support. PSU - Good... but probably useless as I'm not sure you'll be able to mount that in a regular ATX case!

    :(

    EDIT - Just checked the service manual, the PSU is a custom unit anyway. Useless :(:(:(


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    #45
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    Derp...


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    #46
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    cherryghost wrote: »
    Derp...

    http://www.adverts.ie/337108/desktops/dell-d9200-core2-2gb-genuine-vista-nvidia-7900gs/#comment-2542081

    did you ever get a car in the end? :p


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    #47
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    I wasn't looking at upgrading or anything like that. Just a low level PC for my wife-to-be to play Sims 3 on :pac:


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    #48
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Oh, God... you've been ripped cringe.gif Its a BTX unit! :eek:

    Case - useless. Mobo - useless. CPU - barely useful, on a mobo that can OC it to hell and back, which isn't the default on for sure! RAM - Probably too slow to be useful, you might be lucky. Graphics - useless. At this point in time the HD5570 is probably around the same speed and consumes a fraction of the juice, plus it has vastly superior multimedia capabilities and DX10/11 support. PSU - Good... but probably useless as I'm not sure you'll be able to mount that in a regular ATX case!

    :(

    EDIT - Just checked the service manual, the PSU is a custom unit anyway. Useless :(:(:(

    Feel really good now :P

    Haha, its only monies anyway. But what should i do? New case & mobo?


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    #49
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    New everything, if you want a better system than you've got. Neither mobo can support a quad-core CPU and neither case nor PSU supports a mobo upgrade. You could upgrade the GPU in the new Dell but it'd eventually end up CPU-limited and there's no way to OC or upgrade that CPU. Checkmate :(


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    #50
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    New everything, if you want a better system than you've got. Neither mobo can support a quad-core CPU and neither case nor PSU supports a mobo upgrade. You could upgrade the GPU in the new Dell but it'd eventually end up CPU-limited and there's no way to OC or upgrade that CPU. Checkmate :(

    Hmmm, see im not overly interested in a super brilliant machine. Its mostly used for counter strike and DOW. All i want to do is play DOW 2 with my mates. Would that not mean just a CPU upgrade? And when you say new EVERYTHING do you include gfx & ram? Because i can easily back out of the sale and go to sap maplins instead for a new mobo & CPU?


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    #51
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    If you can still back out of the sale, DO SO! :eek:

    Although you're a bit slim on CPU power and shouldn't try running DOW2 at incredibly high resolutions with just a HD5570 under the bonnet it will run in some capacity! So long as you have the G31-based version of the GX360 you can upgrade the CPU to something better which would be a lot cheaper than buying something equally weak and all but useless to you! :o


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    #52
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    If you can still back out of the sale, DO SO! :eek:

    Although you're a bit slim on CPU power and shouldn't try running DOW2 at incredibly high resolutions with just a HD5570 under the bonnet it will run in some capacity! So long as you have the G31-based version of the GX360 you can upgrade the CPU to something better which would be a lot cheaper than buying something equally weak and all but useless to you! :o

    Afraid DOW 2 won't run under any settings. Lucky i only tried a friends d/l on steam. How do i find out if its the g31 based version?

    SO, if i did want to upgrade and was willing to go for a new case & mobo, any reccomendations?

    EDIT- CPU-Z tells me this:
    MOTHERBOARD
    Manufacturer: Dell Inc
    Model: OT656F A00
    Chipset: Intel P35/G33/G31 Rev 0A
    Southbridge: Intel 82801GB (ICH7/R)

    I have it saved as a .txt file if needs be


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    #53
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Even with a slow, weak C2D, DOW2 should be working on your system. Something else is wrong.


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    #54
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Even with a slow, weak C2D, DOW2 should be working on your system. Something else is wrong.

    I just installed the demo, it actually seems to be working now so i dont know what the hell that was about.

    The other thing is, the rents need something newer for tinternets so i might actually go for 9200 after all, and maybe transfer my gfx and hdd into it, it is a cpu improvement i think?

    Then i can give them the pc i currently have for their internet browsing?


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    #55
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    That sounds like it could work :) Plus the 9200 can be upgraded with a Q6700 in future so it should last a good while ;)


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    #56
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    That sounds like it could work :) Plus the 9200 can be upgraded with a Q6700 in future so it should last a good while ;)

    Sounds like a plan so. One thing i have to ask, the 64bit 7 i intend to use, its an upgrade version only..... my plan is to rip everything i want to keep off the HDD i have now, install an OS i have here and use the upgrade to put it 64 bit, i assume it will work?

    Eventually i will have to go through that german site and buy a new mobo, case, cpu, psu etc. Was looking earlier, think i have a few things narrowed down to incorporiate the 5570, the HDD and the ram i already have. Was following the sub 300 template you have up in the sticky, with a few adjustments ;)

    EDIT- In relation the the q6700, i assume you meant the core 2 duo and not the quad?


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    #57
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Nope, AFAIK the 9200 can upgrade to the Q6700, although that's as far as the chipset goes (9200 is based on the XPS410 so Dell didn't completely cripple the BIOS for once!). In theory with a stock Q6700 and a graphics update you'll be good for a good long while (as generally the CPU requirements for new games are expected to increase sideways to gobble up multiple cores more than raw CPU speed increases) :)


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    #58
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    Nope, AFAIK the 9200 can upgrade to the Q6700, although that's as far as the chipset goes (9200 is based on the XPS410 so Dell didn't completely cripple the BIOS for once!). In theory with a stock Q6700 and a graphics update you'll be good for a good long while (as generally the CPU requirements for new games are expected to increase sideways to gobble up multiple cores more than raw CPU speed increases) :)

    So your saying something like this http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_2/Intel-Core%202%20Quad%20Q6700%20HH80562PH0678MK%20%28BX80562Q6700%29.html ??

    Fairly hefty $$ attached there

    EDIT- old pricing i was looking at, circa 2nd quarter 20008 they were around $266, i imagin around the ton or less in wuro now? HAvent been able to find one


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    #59
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    You don't buy them new, they're well EOL now. You hunt them down second-hand for €30-100 ;)


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    #60
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    Solitaire wrote: »
    You don't buy them new, they're well EOL now. You hunt them down second-hand for €30-100 ;)

    Hmmm, you hardly have one ;) (doubt it)Will have to gamoogle it so, much thanks for everything again!!! No doubt in the near future i will seek your expertise again on other matters!!

    As for now, will let ye know how i get on with this "project" when i get at it on saturday


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    #61
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Keep an eye out on Adverts! ;)

    Usually I wouldn't urge you to upgrade this minute but the supply of second-hand Q6x00s is starting to slow down and you can't exactly OC either of your C2Ds on those machines - a Q6700's stock speed of 2.67GHz trumps both of them even at single-threaded apps! :o


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