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Antipsychiatric revolution

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    #32
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    SLUSK wrote: »
    How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

    From my family history, chronic alcoholism while being plagued by psychotic symptoms seemed to be the way people ended up before the condition was first diagnosed and treated in my family. Money lost in large amounts to gambling, mania fueled ill advised business ventures and manic shopping expeditions were also commonplace. Harder drug addiction was also present.

    So in short: miserable lives with alcohol as a crutch to get you through it if you were lucky, hard drug addiction and/or early death due to your addictions if you weren't.


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    #33
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,333 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    SLUSK wrote: »
    We need an anti psychiatric revolution in this world. In to many countries are you allowed to lock up people in homes against their will even though they haven't commited any crimes.

    The cost of the taxpayers for psychiatric drugs which have many serious side effects are going through the roof. Many psychiatric drugs are known to cause aggression in people who are prescribed this "medication".

    I demand that no one should be allowed to be taken into psychiatric care without a court decision.

    I also demand that government stop subsidizing psychiatric drugs. In many countries marijuana is illegal yet governments subsidizes amphetamine like drugs that are known to cause aggression.
    I would direct you to the Florida Baker Act for a start. And if you ask me the law didnt have enough teeth when it let my aunt out of care 3 times in less than a month after she'd gone from Loopy to Psychotic to finally driving in the middle of the road, yelling at cops in her pyjamas kind of Danger to Self and Others kind of crazy.

    So yeah, I can't support your idea.


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    #34
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    A religious person who believes in any kind of god is obviously suffering from hallucinations... When you talk to god you're considered religious(prayer), when god is talking back... you're schizophrenic...


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    #35
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    eth0_ wrote: »
    By your logic (that you've twisted for your own agenda), there's been a sudden explosion of cancer, too.

    Mental illness cases have not "exploded". There is simply better diagnostic procedures, better drugs, better therapies that enable us to help people who need it.

    As for bringing people to court before sectioning....:rolleyes:

    Have you ever seen someone in a state of extreme psychosis? Do you really think they should wait for weeks for a court date, in a state of extreme fear and paranoia, likely attempting suicide or violence against others?

    Here's an example and i'd like you to tell me if you honestly think sectioning this person was "A BAD IDEA":

    A friend of mine has schizophrenia. The incident that caused his diagnosis was this: He had been drinking heavily one night (something known to bring on psychosis in those susceptible). He had feelings of religious persecution for some time. Someone said something to him in the pub that caused him to flee, running about 10 miles back to his home, where he constructed a makeshift crucifix.

    He nailed his hand to the crucifix and obviously was unable to finish the job himself, so he went next door to his friend in a wild psychotic state, banging on the door until he let him in, where he began pleading his friend to crucify him.

    Now, Slusk.

    How would YOU react? What would be the kind thing to do in this case?

    I am interested to know.

    People who are drunk can act in a very strange way. People who are drunk have been known to do very strange things, are all these drunk people who do strange things mentally ill?

    Is your friend also addicted to illegal drugs perhaps? Did he perhaps also drink alcohol and take psychiatric drugs at the same time?


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    #36
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    SLUSK wrote: »
    People who are drunk can act in a very strange way. People who are drunk have been known to do very strange things, are all these drunk people who do strange things mentally ill?

    Is your friend also addicted to illegal drugs perhaps? Did he perhaps also drink alcohol and take psychiatric drugs at the same time?
    Did Xenu get into him and upset his thetan balance?


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    #37
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    humanji wrote: »
    Did Xenu get into him and upset his thetan balance?
    Do you have any proper arguments at all or are you just going to keep accusing me of being a Scientologist?


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    #38
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Do you have any proper arguments at all or are you just going to keep accusing me of being a Scientologist?
    Well it's about as valid as your arguments, and the fact that your following the scientologist line, it's hard to take you seriusly. You don't seem to know what your talking about and this just seems like a rant more than anything else. When you show an understanding of psychiatry and how it works then you arguments will be easier to follow.


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    #39
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Ok, not that long ago homosexuals were considered mentally ill. Homosexuality was defined as a mental illness in older versions of the DSM. Isn't this enough to prove that psychiatry's definitions of mental illnesses are arbitrary? I guess this is also Scientology propaganda.


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    #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Ok, not that long ago homosexuals were considered mentally ill. Homosexuality was defined as a mental illness in older versions of the DSM. Isn't this enough to prove that psychiatry's definitions of mental illnesses are arbitrary? I guess this is also Scientology propaganda.

    Doctors used believe that some illnesses were caused by the agitation of the animal humours, therefore we must treat all diagnoses with that in mind? A word you might remember is "progress".

    While Psychiatry and psychology are both developing fields of endavour (as indeed is all medicine and science), they are certainly not as clueless as hitherto, and nowhere near as dire as you seem to think them. No drug is perfect, no cure without certain limitations or caveats. The alternative, however, is frequently far worse.


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    #41
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Why don't you go to the Swedish medical community and tell them that Concerta does not have aggression as a known side effect... They will laugh at you. It is listed as a possible side effect on the label on the package ffs. I know you are not allowed to give medical advice here but I myself would never trust the opinion of someone I consider to be a quack.

    I myself have no affiliation with Scientology. I don't know any Scientologists. I find myself mostly influenced by Thomas Szasz. Unfortunately the anti psychiatry movement has found itself hijacked by Scientology.

    So do you also believe that drug addiction is not a disease and all drugs should be freely available and not prohibited??


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    #42
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    So do you also believe that drug addiction is not a disease and all drugs should be freely available and not prohibited??
    I believe drug addiction is a very bad thing but I also believe drugs should be legal. However I do not want government to subsidize these kind of drugs. If you want to know all my opinions in politics PM me, since this will get OT otherwise.


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    #43
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    SLUSK wrote: »
    I believe drug addiction is a very bad thing but I also believe drugs should be legal. However I do not want government to subsidize these kind of drugs. If you want to know all my opinions in politics PM me, since this will get OT otherwise.

    I only ask as this is one of the arguments of Szasz.


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    #44
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    One of the consequences of psychiatry and goverment subsidies of these drugs is that there is a black market for these drugs in school yards. Kids labelled with ADHD sell Ritalin to their class mates, it's like cocaine for kids.

    If you're a kid with a bit of an entrepreneurial streak you can quite easily fake the symptoms of ADHD, then you get free drugs which you can sell to your class mates, all paid for by the taxpayers.


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    #45
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Slsuk, can you please clarify your comment on eugenics and psychiartry?

    Despite myself I'm intrigued.


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    #46
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    The_Minister wrote: »
    Slsuk, can you please clarify your comment on eugenics and psychiartry?

    Despite myself I'm intrigued.
    Well at least in Sweden you had forced sterilization of mentally ill people, nothing wrong with that. It was "science" after all wasn't it? Psychiatrists also thought lobotomy was a very good idea.


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    #47
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    SLUSK wrote: »
    One of the consequences of psychiatry and goverment subsidies of these drugs is that there is a black market for these drugs in school yards. Kids labelled with ADHD sell Ritalin to their class mates, it's like cocaine for kids.

    If you're a kid with a bit of an entrepreneurial streak you can quite easily fake the symptoms of ADHD, then you get free drugs which you can sell to your class mates, all paid for by the taxpayers.
    And is this widespread?


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    #48
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    humanji wrote: »
    And is this widespread?
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ritalin-abuse-hits-students-looking-for--an-exam-kick-537088.html
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/24/86-percent-rise-in-adhd-m_n_266818.html?show_comment_id=29650219#comment_29650219

    If you have a copy of the latest revision of the DSM you could easily fake symptoms to get a hold of the kind of drugs you want and then sell them for profit. Drug addicted parents have been known to force their kids to fake ADHD to get Ritalin prescribed.


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    #49
    Byron85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭Byron85


    SLUSK wrote: »

    If you're a kid with a bit of an entrepreneurial streak you can quite easily fake the symptoms of ADHD, then you get free drugs which you can sell to your class mates, all paid for by the taxpayers.

    So I suppose these kids are also faking low levels of Dopamine and under development of the pre frontal cortex in their brains too?


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    #50
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    SLUSK wrote: »
    How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

    Do you have any experience of suffering from or being close to someone suffering from mental illness?
    I ask this because you post as someone who has most certainly not. It reads like a pamphlet from a bored undergraduate student in the JCR craving attention.

    Your belittlement of manic depression and quite often subsequent mania or even worse, psychosis belies any claim you might have to credible views on the subject.

    Its fitting that you post this ridiculous ill-informed bilge from behind the safety of anonymity in a forum on the internet.


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    #51
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    T.W.H Byron wrote: »
    So I suppose these kids are also faking low levels of Dopamine and under development of the pre frontal cortex in their brains too?
    Are all these tests done before you prescribe meds? I have read alot of cases where they prescribe Ritalin based on statements from teachers and parents.


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    #52
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    SLUSK wrote: »
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ritalin-abuse-hits-students-looking-for--an-exam-kick-537088.html
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/24/86-percent-rise-in-adhd-m_n_266818.html?show_comment_id=29650219#comment_29650219

    If you have a copy of the latest revision of the DSM you could easily fake symptoms to get a hold of the kind of drugs you want and then sell them for profit. Drug addicted parents have been known to force their kids to fake ADHD to get Ritalin prescribed.
    So it's not widespread then.


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    #53
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    humanji wrote: »
    So it's not widespread then.
    it seems to be widespread in america.


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    #54
    rccaulfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    SLUSK- the cornerstone of your argument is that some meds have aggression listed as their side effects. To end this argument i will tell you that if a patient is seen to become agitated due to a med the medication will be stopped immediately. ( so thats it-what else you got?)
    The rest of your argument is based on psychiatrys past mistakes, lobotomy, homosexuality etc. Well if you know anyone with a time machine that cud get you back to the sixties your arguments might be useful back there- eh they're long gone.
    If you want to have a go at psychiatry get into the area of drug companies sending doctors off to exotic locations to attend seminars on their new drug. At least that has some basis in reality!
    Lastly a court order to detain a person who is a danger to himself/others? How in reality could that work?


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    #55
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    SLUSK wrote: »
    it seems to be widespread in america.
    Which is just a small part of the planet. You see, there'll always be a problem with people taking advantage of a drug source, but to exagerate the claim in order to give your "get rid of psychiatry" stance a boost is a tad misleading, don't you think?


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    #56
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/165/3/306?nl_id=1195
    They are debating if "internet addiction" should be included in the next edition of the DSM, surprise surprise - they seem to have "medication" for internet addiction also...

    No psychiatry is not a pseudoscience at at all. After all internet addiction might be a real illness that can be cured with meds.


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    #57
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    SLUSK wrote: »
    http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/165/3/306?nl_id=1195
    They are debating if "internet addiction" should be included in the next edition of the DSM, surprise surprise - they seem to have "medication" for internet addiction also...

    No psychiatry is not a pseudoscience at at all. After all internet addiction might be a real illness that can be cured with meds.

    Ehhh....how about that mother who let her kid starve to death while playing WoW?
    If you get into smething enough that you let yourself rot, leave your friends alone, structure you life around it, commit murder because of it.....you have a problem.

    Internet addiction refers to people online a crazy number of times a day (sometimes over 15 hours).


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    #58
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    The_Minister wrote: »
    Ehhh....how about that mother who let her kid starve to death while playing WoW?
    If you get into smething enough that you let yourself rot, leave your friends alone, structure you life around it, commit murder because of it.....you have a problem.

    Internet addiction refers to people online a crazy number of times a day (sometimes over 15 hours).
    If Internet addiction becomes a real "diagnosis" then I'm set for life, I can get disability from the state and then live in Thailand and **** prostitutes, all paid for by the taxpayer. Just like a canadian bloke I ran into in Thailand who got disability for depression or something like that and now spends his life shagging prostitutes in Thailand. Great use of taxpayers money I tell you.


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    #59
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Just like a canadian bloke I ran into in Thailand who got disability for depression or something like that and now spends his life shagging prostitutes in Thailand. Great use of taxpayers money I tell you.

    Now you're alluding to people suffering from mental illness such as depression being bludgers??
    Are you just in this for the stir on christmas break or something? Because you're either not thinking through what you're blurting or basically just a yutz.
    You haven't a clue what you're on about. Seriously, not a bastard clue.


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    #60
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    OK, this thread (which wasn't all that promising to begin with) has moved into crappy personal anecdotes (and regardless of what we've all learned from the Internet, the Simpsons and our imaginations, hearsay isn't a kind of evidence).

    Below the line of reasonable expectation and hence locked. This is the Politics forum after all. Complaints to the usual address.


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