Uilleann Pipes - How long to learn?

sparkman

Way too many people rattling off the aul "7 years learning, 7 years practicing, 7 years playing" line.
Lots of people are asking the question - how long does it actually take to just be good enough to be able to play about 50% of the tunes in a session? Or just good enough so that it's not painful to listen to?

A lot of people would like to give them a lash but in fairness, when you're about to spend several hundred euro on a practice set, I think it's understandable to want an idea of the amount of practice that's required to make it worthwhile.

A pianist could also claim it takes 21 years to learn how to play if you count 8 grades + a degree + a masters + a load of concert experience but in fairness, all people want to be able to do is just play a few tunes without turning the milk sour!

Am a bit ratty cos I'd secretly love to learn the pipes but no-one is giving me a straight answer on the difficulty question.

Any straight-talkin pipers out there?

Blade

It depends on where you're coming from, what experience you have already from another trad instrument and the music. I mean if you knew a stack load of tunes on a tin whistle it would be a helpful start, but if you're starting completely from scratch I'd imagine it would take you a good 10 years to be able to play 50% of tunes in a random session and not sound like a bag of cats.

I play whistle but a few of my friends are pipers, they play mainly bagpipes and small pipes. One of them who has 20 years experience is learning the Uilleann pipes in some course in Dublin city centre, I thinks it's something to do with FAS where they learn to make reeds and stuff like that. If that's any use to you I can get you the information.

trad

A couple of young lads I know are pretty decent uileann pipers, they are around 16 to 18 age group. I've seen one of them in a concert and he could hold his own with the rest of the group (adults). I'll be meeting a few players tomorrow nite and if there are any pipers there I'll give you their thoughts.

colin29

Find someone to teach you, 21 years is aload of crap, some of the finest pipers around aren't even 21 years old, 21 years is something Seamus Ennis pulled out of the air and alot of people idolise him so constantly quote him on it.
You could have a good few tunes rattled off in under a year, not gonna be a master piper or anything but it'll be good enough for yourself to enjoy.
Getting a teacher will help you with grace notes, crans etc.
Find a decent set of pipes, contact this crowd http://www.pipers.ie/ and try and get a loaner set to see if it's something you really want to try beacuse it's alot of money to shell out for something and then realise you don't want to do it any more

trad

OP, agree totally with coiln.

If you are in Limerick there is bound to be some gifted young pipers in UL who might want to impart his or her knowledge to you. I know one piper who is waiting over a year for his €10k set of pipes.

sparkman

Fair play.
I wasted a lot of time on the web trying to get an answer.
Thanks everyone.

trad

No one turned up last night but from some dim and distant part of my brain I remembered these lads

http://www.vpipes.com/

Might be a cost effective way to learn and you can wear earphones while you are playing.

nuttz

trad wrote: »

No one turned up last night but from some dim and distant part of my brain I remembered these lads

http://www.vpipes.com/

Might be a cost effective way to learn and you can wear earphones while you are playing.

Not sure the vpipes would be a good starting point, alot of the initial learning on the pipes is getting a balance between the bellows and the bag and mastering the notes, i.e. different pressure for the different notes and on the high octave. Plus the vpipes are not that cheap.

If the OP had played Irish music and had some repertoire of tunes that would help. IMO there are two sides to this initially, mastering the basics of playing the instrument (practice set initially) and learning the music (learning the music, style, ornamentation, etc).
On top of that, down the line, a half set, (i.e. the drones) will add their own challenges, i.e. tuning and maintaining a constant drone and a full set (three regulators) will add their own challenges also, i.e. learning the appropriate chords depending on the key/flow of a tune.

It sounds like the poster has some musical knowledge and if the poster has and can read music this will help, but it's not a walk in the park. Learning an instrument is easier the younger the pupil, so the OP should expect to practice everyday for a number of years to get to a decent enough standard, with a good repertoire of tunes.

The classified section of the Pat D'Arcy's Uilleann Obsession would be a good place to start when looking for second hand sets, also see the pipers.ie site as well as the Uilleann pipes section in the Chiff and Fipple forum


Where are you based sparkman?

sparkman

Based in Limerick.
I play double bass, doing Grade 8 at the moment, hopefully finished that in May. I mess around a bit with the tin whistle and bought a low whistle a few months ago. For now, I'm thinking of just trying to get the hang of that and use it to learn maybe 15 or 20 tunes. I'd love to give the pipes a lash after that but I'm unfortunately not young (I won't see 35 again)!

colin29

sparkman wrote: »

Based in Limerick.
I play double bass, doing Grade 8 at the moment, hopefully finished that in May. I mess around a bit with the tin whistle and bought a low whistle a few months ago. For now, I'm thinking of just trying to get the hang of that and use it to learn maybe 15 or 20 tunes. I'd love to give the pipes a lash after that but I'm unfortunately not young (I won't see 35 again)!

Nothing wrong with taking up the pipes later on in life, alot of people do, if they didn't there wouldn't be as many pipers in the world today and there's not that many to begin with.
Regarding the Vpipes, they cost about 750e if not more and you could get a decent practice set for cheaper, check out Pat Sky and David Daye for example.

flanum

right at the minute ive hung up all instruments for a while and been re-united with rod,reel, gun and dog... i have a class half gordon galloway set that will be lifted up again eventually... i lifted pipes at age 33... had manys classes with mickey smyth, milltown malbay, and in the seamus ennis centre in naul... i then decided a quicker (after five years) way to learn tunes was to take whistle lessons in ballinamore with lorraine sweeney... i learnt tons of tunes that way.... ill eventually get the pipes out again when im a bit more settled???????

and if you are in limerick then look for mickey dunne for one on one lessons of go a wee bit further to ennis and look for blackie... tell him the mangler angler from cavan sent ye!!!!

good luck!

oh and obviously get on to (chiffandfipple dot com) the uillean forum!! and pipers dot i e ... henrietta street...

trad

Just came across this from http://www.itma.ie/Publications/LearningLeaflet.html

Uilleann Pipes

• The Art of Uilleann Piping vol. 1, Na Píobairí Uilleann, Dublin, [2006] ed. (DVD)
• Denis Brooks, Irish Union Pipes. A Workbook, Brooks, Washington D.C., 1985 (book)
• H.J. Clarke, The New Approach to Uilleann Piping, Clarke, Galway, Ossian, Cork, 1998 (book with CD)
• Eddie Climo, A Handbook for Uilleann Pipers, S.-W. Association of Uilleann Pipers, 1996 (book)
• Tadhg Crowley, How to Play the Irish Uilleann Pipes, Crowley, Cork, 1974 ed. (book)
• Séamus Ennis, The Master’s Touch: A Tutor for the Uilleann Pipes, eds Wilbert Garvin & Robbie Hannan, NPU, Dublin 1998 (book)
• Thomas Kannmacher, The Uilleann Pipes, Kannmacher, Grafschaft, 1999 (book)
• Marc Pollier, Uilleann Pipe Tutor, Bains-sur-Oust, Alain Pennec, 1998 (book with audio cassette)
• Leo Rowsome, Tutor for the Uilleann Pipes, Waltons, Dublin, 1936 (book)
• Pat Sky, A Manual for the Irish Uilleann Pipes, Sky, Chapel Hill, NC, 2000 ed. (book)
• Pat Sky, ed., The Complete Tutor for the Pastoral or New Bagpipe and Also for the Union Pipes by Henry [sic] Colclough and John Geoghegan, Chapel Hill, NC, Sky, 2000 (facsimile book)
• Davy Spillane & Tommy Walsh, The Davy Spillane Uilleann Pipe Tutor, Waltons, Dublin, 1996 (book with audio cassette)
• Eithne & J.B. Vallely, Learn to Play Uilleann Pipes, Armagh Pipers Club, Armagh, 1998 ed. (book)

Should be some help there.

colin29

trad wrote: »

Just came across this from http://www.itma.ie/Publications/LearningLeaflet.html

Uilleann Pipes

• The Art of Uilleann Piping vol. 1, Na Píobairí Uilleann, Dublin, [2006] ed. (DVD)
• Denis Brooks, Irish Union Pipes. A Workbook, Brooks, Washington D.C., 1985 (book)
• H.J. Clarke, The New Approach to Uilleann Piping, Clarke, Galway, Ossian, Cork, 1998 (book with CD)
• Eddie Climo, A Handbook for Uilleann Pipers, S.-W. Association of Uilleann Pipers, 1996 (book)
• Tadhg Crowley, How to Play the Irish Uilleann Pipes, Crowley, Cork, 1974 ed. (book)
• Séamus Ennis, The Master’s Touch: A Tutor for the Uilleann Pipes, eds Wilbert Garvin & Robbie Hannan, NPU, Dublin 1998 (book)
• Thomas Kannmacher, The Uilleann Pipes, Kannmacher, Grafschaft, 1999 (book)
• Marc Pollier, Uilleann Pipe Tutor, Bains-sur-Oust, Alain Pennec, 1998 (book with audio cassette)
• Leo Rowsome, Tutor for the Uilleann Pipes, Waltons, Dublin, 1936 (book)
• Pat Sky, A Manual for the Irish Uilleann Pipes, Sky, Chapel Hill, NC, 2000 ed. (book)
• Pat Sky, ed., The Complete Tutor for the Pastoral or New Bagpipe and Also for the Union Pipes by Henry [sic] Colclough and John Geoghegan, Chapel Hill, NC, Sky, 2000 (facsimile book)
• Davy Spillane & Tommy Walsh, The Davy Spillane Uilleann Pipe Tutor, Waltons, Dublin, 1996 (book with audio cassette)
• Eithne & J.B. Vallely, Learn to Play Uilleann Pipes, Armagh Pipers Club, Armagh, 1998 ed. (book)

Should be some help there.

I suggest you get the two in bold, the Leo Rowsome and Tadhg Crowley are out of print but can probably be found in your local Library, the Seamus Ennis is great as it shows you how he interpreted the music.
The Davy Spillane book isn't worth your time or money, some nice pictures but that's it.
The Pat Sky manual is interesting, drawings of his Rowsome set, details on reed making some exercises, good overall to have.
Eddie Climo book can be donloaded fro his website for free, you can find aswell as others here: http://swaup.biorust.com/pubs.htm .

nuttz

sparkman wrote: »

Based in Limerick.

There should be a few pipers based in UL in the IWMC that might be available to teach, I think Mikie Smyth lectures down there and I think Thomas Johnson is researching there, plus there should be plenty of pipers in Clare that might teach.

pmckm2

Hi There,
If you are serious about learning the pipes, give me a call on 087 2310352
Peter

sparkman wrote: »

Way too many people rattling off the aul "7 years learning, 7 years practicing, 7 years playing" line.
Lots of people are asking the question - how long does it actually take to just be good enough to be able to play about 50% of the tunes in a session? Or just good enough so that it's not painful to listen to?

A lot of people would like to give them a lash but in fairness, when you're about to spend several hundred euro on a practice set, I think it's understandable to want an idea of the amount of practice that's required to make it worthwhile.

A pianist could also claim it takes 21 years to learn how to play if you count 8 grades + a degree + a masters + a load of concert experience but in fairness, all people want to be able to do is just play a few tunes without turning the milk sour!

Am a bit ratty cos I'd secretly love to learn the pipes but no-one is giving me a straight answer on the difficulty question.

Any straight-talkin pipers out there?

sensibleken

sparkman wrote: »

Way too many people rattling off the aul "7 years learning, 7 years practicing, 7 years playing" line.
Lots of people are asking the question - how long does it actually take to just be good enough to be able to play about 50% of the tunes in a session? Or just good enough so that it's not painful to listen to?

A lot of people would like to give them a lash but in fairness, when you're about to spend several hundred euro on a practice set, I think it's understandable to want an idea of the amount of practice that's required to make it worthwhile.

A pianist could also claim it takes 21 years to learn how to play if you count 8 grades + a degree + a masters + a load of concert experience but in fairness, all people want to be able to do is just play a few tunes without turning the milk sour!

Am a bit ratty cos I'd secretly love to learn the pipes but no-one is giving me a straight answer on the difficulty question.

Any straight-talkin pipers out there?

A guy who plays in my session has been playing for 4 years and hes really really good. he had be playing whistle before so he had some musical ability.

The thing is its not 21 yesrs before you can play. you are always getting better at it when you practice. My advise though would be to get one-on-one lessons

Mac Cormaic

sparkman wrote: »

Way too many people rattling off the aul "7 years learning, 7 years practicing, 7 years playing" line.
Lots of people are asking the question - how long does it actually take to just be good enough to be able to play about 50% of the tunes in a session? Or just good enough so that it's not painful to listen to?

A lot of people would like to give them a lash but in fairness, when you're about to spend several hundred euro on a practice set, I think it's understandable to want an idea of the amount of practice that's required to make it worthwhile.

A pianist could also claim it takes 21 years to learn how to play if you count 8 grades + a degree + a masters + a load of concert experience but in fairness, all people want to be able to do is just play a few tunes without turning the milk sour!

Am a bit ratty cos I'd secretly love to learn the pipes but no-one is giving me a straight answer on the difficulty question.

Any straight-talkin pipers out there?

The best way to learn the pipes, is to learn the tin-whistle at the same time. When you want to learn a tune, practice it first on the whistle, and then once you roughly have it, start off on the pipes, and perfect both.

After a year you will have a few tunes, and depending on your gift at playing music and the time you put into it, you will be able to play in a session. After three to four years, you will certainly have most of the tunes off if you are at a regular session, where they repeat the same ones weekly.

As time progresses you'll master more tunes, and perfect your style, and be able to include ornamentation. Many of the piping tunes you'll hear on CD's are really intricate, and you won't find them in your average session.

When people talk about taking 21 years to learn them, they are really talking about excelling to the equivalant of a master craftsman.

Four years, putting in an hour four days a week, you'll be regarded as a good piper (once you can play to begin with). Everything else is about perfecting it.

Remember not every musician in sessions on other instruments are master musicians either. Most just know the tunes and can play simple versions of them, and many make small mistakes. Repitition is the key is often all thats needed.

The best thing to do if you want to build confidence fast to get into sessions, find the 20 most popular trad tunes played, and learn them. Within 18 months you should have most of them learnt to session standard. It might take six months then to just get used to playing in a group, and being able to catch up if you make a mistake and have to stop and restart at the right opportunity.

pagancelt

Learning the pipes?
In partnership with Co. Westmeath VEC Na Píobairí Uilleann are holding piping classes in Kinnegad, Co. Westmeath.
Term 1: beginning in October. Date TBC. Mondays from 7pm.
Teacher: Éanna Ó Muiré
Fee: €130
Venue: Old National School, Kinnegad
To register: contact Na Píobairí Uilleann 01 8730093 or email info@pipers.ie