Celebrity Condolence Threads in AH?

DeVore

I think we need a "too soon for jokes" guideline too, I mean there is "Nein 11" if people want their humour raw.... but after a few days there is at least a period of decorum.

DeV.

My name is URL

I think that's a great idea. There's no need for jokes in a death thread. If puns are posted in AH after a death the blame lies as much with the forum as it does with the posters. A disproportionate amount of people are infracted during the course of those threads.

I don't really think that the forum itself is to blame, but the collective humor doesn't fit everything that's posted there.

A centralised forum for condolences would help loads of fora avoid heated dickish behavior and decision making in those instances, and it would be a nice touch for Boards itself

mikom

DeVore wrote: »

Perhaps we should have a "Book of Condolences" forum.... bit like the Mansion House.

DeV.

Great idea.
You could even develop a new button like the "thumbs up" thanks button, but make it a "weeping eye" RIP button.
It'll make it easier for those who regularly post just RIP.

Sharpshooter

Adam Cold Vanilla wrote: »

Well, it did imply something. It was an answer to Makkikomi claiming that we "carried" you by insinuating "Well, actually, they couldn't hack it so nnnneeeeeeeehhhhhhhh" What's the non-defamatory observation I'm missing here?

But you didn't carry me, so why would I infer nnnneeeeeeeehhhhhhhh" in my post?

Adam Cold Vanilla wrote: »

Don't you remember reading the reason he gave when he left? Or did you thank it without reading it?

Truthfully, I remember reading that now that you linked to it, but I thought nothing of it, if he was too busy then there was really nothing to make it stand out for me.
Of course I thanked it, he was a fellow Mod but yes I forgot about it after that.

Bonito

DeVore wrote: »

I think we need a "too soon for jokes" guideline too, I mean there is "Nein 11" if people want their humour raw.... but after a few days there is at least a period of decorum.

DeV.

It's hard to pin point what's too soon and what's too far sometimes, though. As for Nein 11. I doubt the mods would want the whole of AH requesting access so they can bombard the place when a celeb passes away. :pac:

Treating things case by case and post by post is a must. Yeah, it's a long job and consumes a lot of time on the mods part but once there's enough mods online at the time to contend with the number of posters, a lot of the "gone too far" posts would be deleted before most other posters can see/quote them.

It's all about the mods getting wind first and setting themselves up to deal with it effectively.

I'd hazard the guess that 1st wave is 1/2 mods look out for reported posts and snip/delete them. Then what I call 2nd wave (another mod) sieves through all the remainder posts and make edits where needed. But leave a reason for the edit so it's clear to new visitors to the thread what's not wanted in it.

Then 3rd wave (another mod) sieve through the sieved posts to make sure nothing is missed.

Then free/remainding mods can keep an eye on the other threads within the forum.

All this is dependant on how many mods are online at the time, of course.

DeVore

I see the AH mods have been ahead of me with the "too soon for jokes" idea.

I think the Book of Condolences forum would be nice and a good addition to the site.

I for one would have liked to mark Logic1's or Eirebhoy's passing as much as any celebs.


DeV.

WindSock

Since when have these celebrity condolence threads become an issue in AH? Have people just become more sensitive or insensitive lately? Or has there been a sort of a pun virus that has been doing the rounds in recent times.

Bonito

DeVore wrote: »

I see the AH mods have been ahead of me with the "too soon for jokes" idea.

I think the Book of Condolences forum would be nice and a good addition to the site.

I for one would have liked to mark Logic1's or Eirebhoy's passing as much as any celebs.


DeV.

Massive +1 on that!

The Recliner

DeVore wrote: »

I see the AH mods have been ahead of me with the "too soon for jokes" idea.

I think the Book of Condolences forum would be nice and a good addition to the site.

I for one would have liked to mark Logic1's or Eirebhoy's passing as much as any celebs.


DeV.

A book of condolences forum is a nice idea and I would imagine that most people would respect it

People would still want to talk about the high profile deaths in AH

So why not have 2 seperate threads in AH with them marked clearly as a serious RIP thread and a free for all one, if youa re going to be offended you don't go into the free for all one and only the highly dubious posts get actioned?

Sharpshooter

The Recliner wrote: »

A book of condolences forum is a nice idea and I would imagine that most people would respect it

Given it's own forum I think they would have no choice as it would be far removed from AHs.

People would still want to talk about the high profile deaths in AH

That's the problem really, we have to sort out what you can say and what's not acceptable.

The Recliner wrote: »

So why not have 2 seperate threads in AH with them marked clearly as a serious RIP thread and a free for all one.

Because The Free for All one would imply you can say what you want and that simply won't fly because of legal issues.
Also because we cannot always know if a Mod will be online when a Popular Celeb dies to closely moderate the thread.

The Recliner

Sharpshooter wrote: »

Because The Free for All one would imply you can say what you want and that simply won't fly because of legal issues.
Also because we cannot always know if a Mod will be online when a Popular Celeb dies to closely moderate the thread.

Free for all is probably the wrong description

Serious and non serious would probably be likely

It would still need Modding but so do all threads and ye do a good job as it is

The other option is just to disallow them altogether but I wouldn't be in favour of that

OutlawPete

It's quite simple.

When a thread is started announcing someone's death, the AH Mods should quickly decide whether jokes are suitable or not and they do.

If that is what they decide, then they should alter the thread title to reflect that jokes are unsuitable and unwanted.

If someone ignores the warning, ban them for 24 hours.

If no warning appears in the title (which will be the case when Osama & Mr Glitter die) then work away with the gags.

Then when the AH Mods gauge the public mood and decide that sufficient time has passed and jokes are now acceptable, they can allow new threads / jokes based on the celeb without adding the warning.

See I don't think there is a problem with the way AH handles these threads at all.

When someone dies, decent AH regulars are well able to discuss celebs and show decorum and express whether they liked they celeb or not.

As was shown on the GRyan thread, many users talked about how they didn't like him etc.

Let's not lose threads announcing a celeb has died cause of the muppets.

It's current affairs after all and so belongs in AH.

The real issue is with people who think it is hilarious to make gags when someone dies.

Or to post a gag after a Mod has said not too.

It's just like how a kid wants to do exactly what they are told not to.

If these people got banned straight away for ignoring 'On-thread' warnings to show decorum, then there wouldn't be this same debate everytime a celeb dies.

There needs to be ZERO tolerance when it comes to these celebrity death news threads.

These posters are just immature attention seekers and the truth is that if they went somewhere that you CAN make these gags immediately following a celebrity's death and posted them, they would just be met with tumbleweeds as they are usually quite lame jokes.

The vast majority of AH regulars have cop-on and it's quite sad that the there is a small bunch of fools that give the rest a bad name.

I posted in Feedback about how well I felt the GRyan threads were handled on Boards and I stand by that.

If Boards use that situation as a Blueprint for how to handle all future celebrity deaths, then I don't see a problem to be honest.

Just tweak the 'decorum time' based on public mood, there are eight moderators in AH, it shouldn't be a problrom.

That is why they are there afterall and so should be trusted to make that judgement.

Without zero tolerance though, you'll always get the fools who will try and get a joke in thinking a warning is all that will be dished out.

The Recliner

OutlawPete wrote: »

The vast majority of AH regulars have cop-on and it's quite sad that the there is a small bunch of fools that give the rest a bad name. I posted in Feedback about how well I felt the GRyan threads were handled on Boards and I stand by that.

If Boards use that situation as a Blueprint for how to handle all future celebrity deaths, then I don't see a problem to be honest.

The amount of work that was required to keep the Gerry Ryan thread from descending into a total farce was unreal

It was just luck that at the time there were Mods around to cope with it and even at that they had to draft in Dr B and Mickey to help keep it under control, you can't rely on enough people to be around if that sort of thing happens again, especially at a weekend

Those guys did trojan work, the amount of reported posts was huge

In all honesty it is too much work to expect that to happem or be allowed to happen again imo

So I think some sort of format that lessens the Mod workload needs to be put in place

OutlawPete

The Recliner wrote: »

The amount of work that was required to keep the Gerry Ryan thread from descending into a total farce was unreal

Yes, but it worked.

The threads ran smoothly after that and users were able to post their opinions as long as they showed decorum.

The Recliner wrote: »

Those guys did trojan work, the amount of reported posts was huge

In all honesty it is too much work to expect that to happem or be allowed to happen again imo

So I think some sort of format that lessens the Mod workload needs to be put in place

I agree but it was a MASSIVE news story and I can't see that level of moderation being needed again.

People were chomping at the bit to make gags and the first 48 were insane but once people eventually got the message that they had to show decorum, they did.

If zero tolerance is adopted following Mod warnings then I feel eventually users on Boards will get the message that respect following celebrity deaths is a site wide policy.

Perhaps it should be added to all forum Charters to drill the message home even further for future reference.

The Recliner

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yes, but it worked.

Just about and only through serious dedication above and beyond the cause of duty

I agree but it was a MASSIVE news story and I can't see that level of moderation being needed again.

Maggie Thatcher can't live forever, I can't imagine that will be a pretty sight and there are a few others that have been mentioned already in this thread

It will be interesting to see what happens, personally I don't like the side of people that this sort of thing brings out

K-9

The Recliner wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what happens, personally I don't like the side of people that this sort of thing brings out

Indeed, my thoughts on it.

Still, it would be a shame to see a few puns or innocent jokes lost in AH on these threads.

On the MJ thread, surely you could beat it, be bad and a smooth criminal?

The Recliner

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, my thoughts on it.

Still, it would be a shame to see a few puns or innocent jokes lost in AH on these threads.

On the MJ thread, surely you could beat it, be bad and a smooth criminal?

I don't think anyone would have a problem with that though but some people don't ahve enough restraint to leave it at that

K-9

The Recliner wrote: »

I don't think anyone would have a problem with that though but some people don't ahve enough restraint to leave it at that

That's where the mods come in. Otherwise don't have RIP threads at all. They don't fit in with the ethos of AH, where a little piss taking is part of the board.

OutlawPete

The Recliner wrote: »

I don't think anyone would have a problem with that though but some people don't ahve enough restraint to leave it at that

Which is why 'zero tolerance' should be adapted in my eyes.

You can't allow some jokes and not others as then someone has to decide what the distinction is and there will be threads on that also.

Maybe it's easier said than done but I just feel that to lose celeb death threads just because some people have no class, would be shame for those that can actually conduct themselves in a appropriate manner.

The Maggie thread will be interesting though

Jokes about pretty much anything tend to be allowed on AH, it is all just a matter of timing and each celeb seems to have a different period where jokes are not tolerated to when they are tolerated.

G.Ryan it was a few weeks, MJ was a little less, Stephen Gately was what seemed to be a month and Corey Haim was less than 48 hours or so.

I know the thread topic here is Celebrity Condolence threads but I really don't think that is the main issue.

Take last nights thread on the ambulance man dying, people wanted to make jokes there also.

So it is really a case that some topics require respect and so if users are asked to refrain from making gags, then that is what they have to do.

Focusing too much on the 'celebrity' angle of all of this, misses the bigger picture, which is that there are a small minority of users that obviously need to learn that, sometimes jokes are not always suitable and if they do find that they really want to make gags when they see a Mod warning that they shouldn't - chances are that they really need to cop themselves on.

Sharpshooter

The Recliner wrote: »

The amount of work that was required to keep the Gerry Ryan thread from descending into a total farce was unreal

It was just luck that at the time there were Mods around to cope with it and even at that they had to draft in Dr B and Mickey to help keep it under control, you can't rely on enough people to be around if that sort of thing happens again, especially at a weekend

Those guys did trojan work, the amount of reported posts was huge

In all honesty it is too much work to expect that to happem or be allowed to happen again imo

So I think some sort of format that lessens the Mod workload needs to be put in place

The Gerry Ryan thread was a nightmare, I logged in at 17:51 on the 30/04/10 and between then and 23:19 deleted over a hundred posts.

And I reckon over 30 after that before the thread was closed a few days later.

It goes back to what mods are online at any given time and how many.

You simply can't predict who will die, what the reaction will be and who will be online to mod the thread when it's posted.

Personally I think they belong in Celebrity and Showbiz or Television where the regular users know what is expected of them and the Mods of those forums can easily spot a troll that doesn't normally frequent their forum.

So I think some sort of format that lessens the Mod workload needs to be put in place

Honestly, it's a tough one to call atm but the feedback in here is good to see and we will take it in and discuss it in the AH mod forum, maybe with Admin input to see what they can tell us as to what we can and cannot allow?

Kiera

Sharpshooter wrote: »

Given it's own forum I think they would have no choice as it would be far removed from AHs.

Can you do me a favour and call it by its right name: AH = After Hours.

Sharpshooter wrote: »

The Gerry Ryan thread was a nightmare, I logged in at 17:51 on the 30/04/10 and between then and 23:19 deleted over a hundred posts.

And I reckon over 30 after that before the thread was closed a few days later.

It goes back to what mods are online at any given time and how many.

You simply can't predict who will die, what the reaction will be and who will be online to mod the thread when it's posted.

Personally I think they belong in Celebrity and Showbiz or Television where the regular users know what is expected of them and the Mods of those forums can easily spot a troll that doesn't normally frequent their forum.



Honestly, it's a tough one to call atm but the feedback in here is good to see and we will take it in and discuss it in the AH mod forum, maybe with Admin input to see what they can tell us as to what we can and cannot allow?

SS in all fairness you only seem to have input at night time ie: you close threads if they dont suit you, even if your fellow mods have posted in that thread. I'm sure you can talk it out in the AH mod forum but seeing as you're not an active mod you shouldnt have a major say in what goes down. To a lot of people all you do is close threads that you dont like instend of letting them run there course.

K-9

Kiera wrote: »

Can you do me a favour and call it by its right name: AH = After Hours.

SS in all fairness you only seem to have input at night time ie: you close threads if they dont suit you, even if your fellow mods have posted in that thread. I'm sure you can talk it out in the AH mod forum but seeing as you're not an active mod you shouldnt have a major say in what goes down. To a lot of people all you do is close threads that you dont like instend of letting them run there course.

Oh Good God, I see where this is trying to go.

I thought SS was an active mod.

Maybe, Kiera, as an H Mod, not quite a full Mod, you have access to more details than Feedback posters and readers.

One thing seems clear, despite "issues" ex Mods may have, AH seems to be as popular as ever though. Mods come and go, AH grows and grows.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

OK, here's a drunkard coming in on the conversation...

We can talk everyhing to death in feedback, I love AH, it's where you can have a general chat about 'things' and it is the forum which pulls the most traffic so whatever you may think of the forum, what happens there is very relevant to the site

As it is meant to be a 'pub' forum, general pub chat should be let but let's not forget that this is a commercial enterprise and laws of liabiltiy apply.

One of the best arguments that I have heard on this thread is that it isn't 4chan or anything like it, nor should it be, and imo, whatever anyones opinions on the Mods and their consistency, and from what I have seen from feedback (and life lets be honest), there is no black and white.

AH Mods have the best and worse jobs, you just need to trust their discretion on matters arising, every situation is different and if you have a problem with it, well then f*ck off tbh, you haven't given any free time of yours except to winge and moan!!

The Mods are there for and are entitled to judge the flow of threads as they see fit, and liability is always a concern for this site that we all enjoy but some like to have a bitch about

IMHO give the Mods their discretion, they have been appointed for a reason, from my limited time on boards I have found it to be organic and evolving as any good business model should be. 99% of us use it for a recreational purpose, and have no problems with it. It's not broke so.....








(but if I may, I f*ckin hate that rolleyes.... )

Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter wrote: »

Honestly, it's a tough one to call atm but the feedback in here is good to see and we will take it in and discuss it in the AH mod forum, maybe with Admin input to see what they can tell us as to what we can and cannot allow?

Kiera wrote: »

Can you do me a favour and call it by its right name: AH = After Hours.

I did, see above.

SS in all fairness you only seem to have input at night time ie:

Yes, myself and Rabies do seem to be online more at night.

you close threads if they dont suit you,

I close threads that don't belong in AH or are Trolling threads or Parody threads.

even if your fellow mods have posted in that thread.

Are you saying that my fellow mods deserve more leniency than AH users?
Or are you dragging up the past?

I'm sure you can talk it out in the AH mod forum but seeing as you're not an active mod you shouldnt have a major say in what goes down.

Well I don't think you are the person to make that decision, but take it further if you like.

Kiera wrote: »

To a lot of people all you do is close threads that you dont like instend of letting them run there course.

Again,I close threads that don't belong in AH or are Trolling threads or Parody threads.

davyjose

OutlawPete wrote: »

When a thread is started announcing someone's death, the AH Mods should quickly decide whether jokes are suitable or not and they do.



See I don't think there is a problem with the way AH handles these threads at all.

There's no balance or consistency. Which is why, when someone made a joke about Gary Coleman, there were posts being deleted, and warnings issued, yet when people made jokes about Blanche from golden girls, nothing was said.

That's what particularly irked me last week, and I'm only surprised the point I made was vindicated so soon.

A random post from that thread:

The only thing golden about them was the piss in their pants.

Make up your minds mods. Seriously, it's just bizarre at this stage.

OutlawPete

davyjose wrote: »

There's no balance or consistency. Which is why, when someone made a joke about Gary Coleman, there were posts being deleted, and warnings issued, yet when people made jokes about Blanche from golden girls, nothing was said.

Rue McClanahan was 76 years old and her death was not unusual for someone of her years.

Gary Coleman was only 42 years old and his death was the result of a tragic accident.

Kiera

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I did, see above.
Yes, myself and Rabies do seem to be online more at night.
I close threads that don't belong in AH or are Trolling threads or Parody threads.
Are you saying that my fellow mods deserve more leniency than AH users?
Or are you dragging up the past?
Well I don't think you are the person to make that decision, but take it further if you like.
Again,I close threads that don't belong in AH or are Trolling threads or Parody threads.

Nope not dragging up the past, SS. I just think you only mod threads where there are people you dont like and tend to close them.

Why cant you let them die a death instead of locking them? Or how's about giving a warning in thread instead of locking?

Every Friday and Saturday night there are at least 6-8 locked threads just cause you can!

/have been in A&E all night and am a bit whacked on drugs so if i dont make sense, tell me and i'll clear it up for you!

javaboy

Guidelines and cop on preferable. Rules and enforcement when necessary.

That goes for mods and posters.

People are looking for some hard and fast rules that can be applied across the board. It's the easy way out but it also makes for a boring lifeless forum. Some things will offend more than others.

Part of the reason a lot of thought goes into picking mods of certain forums is that common sense and familiarity with the forum is needed. I mean anyone can simply apply a set of rules strictly and consistently. But that's not what it's about.

It's about maintaining a balance. Keeping most people happy and cutting out the things that can reasonably be expected to cause serious upset and offence.

It shouldn't be just one extreme or another i.e. jokes or no jokes.

It's called moderation for a reason.

Sharpshooter

javaboy wrote: »

Guidelines and cop on preferable. Rules and enforcement when necessary.

That goes for mods and posters.

Well said, on both points.