GPs! What's the point?

Noangel72

Can someone explain to me what GPs do in this country? I went to one today, he did nothing! I had an appointment but had to wait 1h anyway, once I went in I asked a couple of questions to which he responded saying that if it get serious he will refer me to a specialist; got him to check my lungs, forgot to have him check my liver…..otherwise he wouldn’t have taken the initiative despite I was in for a check up…basically the guy did nothing and put €50 in his pocket………what a joke!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Well guess he checked out whatever's bothering you and decided its fine for the moment. As regards the liver he'd have no reason to check it unless you described symptoms that warranted doing so.

I do agree the €50 cost is ridiculous. And has stopped me going to a GP in the past cause I needed the money for other stuff.

I think the government should set up GP clinics and pay each doctor a salary. Charge people €10-20 to stop people going over nothing. Prescriptions also shouldn't cost near what they do.

Herbal Deity

Last few times I've gone to my GP (minor issues), I've researched my symptoms online first, and been pretty much bang on each time.

I think that if I'm going to hand over €50, I should be getting a full precautionary check up, instead I get asked a few questions and prescribed some drug based on my GP's interpretation of what I've said

CDfm

OP if you went to the garage with your car you would have an idea what the problem is.

A GP runs a business selling doctoring.

So what did you ask him to check - if you went to him to get blood tests for liver function etc you should have asked for that or asked for a full check up.

So if you dont have a specific problem he will chat and take 50 euro.

star-pants

Always best to make a list of things you need to ask whilst you're up there.
My doc is €55, if myself and my brother go up, he only charges 65 or 70 which is decent. And when I was very very ill last month, I rang him and he got a prescription to my chemist so my dad could collect medicine for me.

Maybe not all GPs are nice, but my one is, and whilst yes it's a lot of money, I go up when I really have to. I agree the system should be better though (including prescriptions/medical cards etc).

Novella

In all fairness, these people do get phenomenal points in the Leaving Cert and go to college for seven years.

LostinBlanch

And there was me looking at this title and thinking GPS what's the point?

Oh well.

CDfm

Novella wrote: »

In all fairness, these people do get phenomenal points in the Leaving Cert and go to college for seven years.

so we are afraid not to pay them cos they were swots :rolleyes:

I have a female GP who charges 65 a visit and is very thorough and is worth the money

I wont give out her name cos that would mean less attention for me:p

Ebbs

In fairness the 65 euro isnt that steep for the level of training etc they do.

Some doctors have to pay back their near 30k+ loans they took out to go into medicine. The day to day runnings are also rather high, insurance, union costs, joining 101 associations to say that you are fully qualified, getting assessed annually, learning new practices, a secutary, cleaning etc of the facilities, etc

I am by no means saying they are not making a killed, but it is very costly for most doctors. Most doctors are still filthy rich despite the costs and fair play to them. People with far lower intellegence and a far less grusome jobs get paid alot more and extort people for mundane services...while they extort people to make them live longer.

As for having to refer you, they dont usually stock large x-ray machines or the other equipment needed to properly look at your liver etc. Most organs such as livers, kidneys require a specialist who has done 7 years of doctoring plus studied one of the systems.

CDfm

Ebbs wrote: »

In fairness the 65 euro isnt that steep for the level of training etc they do.

and she does give good patient badges

Ebbs

CDfm wrote: »

and she does give good patient badges

Im more of a lolipop man myself.

Noangel72

...the fact that they study a lot and do lots of training is a lot of bulls.......on the contrary it shows that they should know better that if you go in for a full check up they should give you one and not just wait for the patient to complain about something specific.....sorry but some of the opinions here expressed show ignorance and are the very reason why most GPs get away with charging €50 for doing nothing.......

....the real problem is that lots of people avoid going to the GP to save money when in fact they might have real health issues.....:mad:

hoochio

Had to get my tonsils out a few years ago, initial cost of GP visit to tell me that-55 euro. Asked me to collect a referral letter for a specialist 3 days later-another 50 euro! Still having problems with my throat so had to get another referral and check-up a few weeks ago 110 euro!

Novella

Well, I hope to study Medicine next year and while I don't plan on being a GP, (I'd like to specialise), I think considering how much work goes into getting that degree in the first place, charging 50/60 euro a visit isn't that substancial.

It takes a massive amount of interest, dedication and sheer hard work to become qualified and I'll never begrudge any doctor the money they earn.

No one forces people to go to a GP. If you don't think they're worth the money, don't go. At the end of the day, if you need a prescription, you'll have to see a doctor and so what if it takes them two minutes to diagnose what you need? Not every person on the street can do that.

I think it's offensive to suggest they are over-charging or that their money is easily earned.

CDfm

Novella wrote: »

No one forces people to go to a GP. If you don't think they're worth the money, don't go. At the end of the day, if you need a prescription, you'll have to see a doctor and so what if it takes them two minutes to diagnose what you need? Not every person on the street can do that.

I think it's offensive to suggest they are over-charging or that their money is easily earned.

You are easily offended

I think if you look at it as a % of disposable income of a person its different

a single person on 30000 per annum talkes home around 480 per week and a doctors visit at 60 euro represents 12.5% of their income that week and if they get a perscription ????

thats before their bills ,rent l, heat, travel ,food etc

So its relative - going to the doctor is not cheap by a long shot. and is a bit of a luxury.

Fajitas!

LostinBlanch wrote: »

And there was me looking at this title and thinking GPS what's the point?

Oh well.

I was hoping for someone shouting for the good old map and compass... :-/

Novella

I'm not easily offended. Someone said the opinions in this thread which aren't "Yeah, GP's charge too much" show ignorance.

People who work in highly skilled jobs are always the one's who are on a better wage. I don't think that is unfair. You get out what you put in. That's just life.

No one appreciates how much goes on behind the scenes. A friend of mine is a medical student in fourth year and I honestly don't know anyone who works harder than he does.
He is constantly on call. He could be in St. James's from 7am 'til 7pm, get home and two hours later be called and told to come back in. That's the life of a junior doctor. It isn't easy.

I understand that fifty euro is expensive if you're only in there for five minutes but I mean, if it only takes five minutes to give you what you need to make you better, what more do you want???

If you want a full check up, ask. Doctors are human, they can't read minds. They want to help, but so often people are scared when they visit their GP so they cover up the real issue with other little things and hope the doctor will guess. He/she can't always guess! It takes two to make this work.

Sure, 12% of a wage to see a doctor is expensive but personally, I think healthcare is something worth investing in.

CDfm

Novella wrote: »

I'm not easily offended.

People who work in highly skilled jobs are always the one's who are on a better wage. I don't think that is unfair. You get out what you put in. That's just life.

No one appreciates how much goes on behind the scenes. A friend of mine is a medical student in fourth year and I honestly don't know anyone who works harder than he does.
He is constantly on call. He could be in St. James's from 7am 'til 7pm, get home and two hours later be called and told to come back in. That's the life of a junior doctor. It isn't easy.

Sure, 12% of a wage to see a doctor is expensive but personally, I think healthcare is something worth investing in.

If you look at it the majority of people who pay PRSI and income tax will have contributed financially to his training.

A person with less academic ability can work equally as hard to become a mechanic or electrician.

My comment is framed that the unwaged get medical cards and those on high salaries can afford it.

What about a family with the main earner on the average industrial wage ?

I have come up with a great Xmas Gift Idea - A GP Gift Voucher

emtrgnmb

Noangel72

1. If you don’t like your GP, or the service he is providing I would suggest you change to another GP. If you’re not happy with the service price of your car insurance, you change...people in this country moan about their GP and continue to give them custom. There is no issue with changing GP.

2. You had an appointment and waited for an hour. This is unfortunate but people in the waiting room are oblivious to what’s going on in the surgery. There could have been an emergency or a couple of urgent cases in before you, or something that took more time, the time that you would expect if you were the patient in need of that level of attention.

3. You said you had an appointment and went in with a specific complaint which he said he would refer you to a consultant if it got worse. Then in his clinical opinion, it did not warrant the attention of a consultant. Could you imagine the out patients department in every hospital if GPs referred every single problem for review. This simply cannot happen. If you are still unsure seek a second opinion from another GP, or return to you own GP and explain you not happy with the level of service. You’re happy to come on boards to complain, why don’t you tell the GP directly?

4. You obviously had a primary concern to attend you GP and then you mention that you wanted a full check up? Did you ask the GP for a full check up? I cannot see why he wouldn't do so if this was the case. It would be standard practice to fast for blood tests as part of a full check up, did you attend the surgery fasting?

When you go to a mechanic with an isolated problem in the car, does he give it a full service? Not unless you ask for it.

Novella wrote: »

No one forces people to go to a GP. If you don't think they're worth the money, don't go. At the end of the day, if you need a prescription, you'll have to see a doctor and so what if it takes them two minutes to diagnose what you need? Not every person on the street can do that.

Novella, firstly if someone is unwell or injured their first port of call is their primary care physician or GP, where else would you suggest people to go? Congest further an Emergency department? Some people while not on a medical or GP visit card find it difficult to pay to see a GP, would you rather these people avoid seeing their GP, allow their problem to progress unmanaged, and develop into something that will altogether be far more difficult to manage clinically and more expensive for the state to treat. To say that "If you don't think they're worth the money, don't go." is not in any way helpful to anyone.

Novella wrote: »

A friend of mine is a medical student in fourth year and I honestly don't know anyone who works harder than he does.

Novella wrote: »

He is constantly on call. He could be in St. James's from 7am 'til 7pm, get home and two hours later be called and told to come back in. That's the life of a junior doctor.

A fourth year medical student is not a junior doctor. They would not be on call, unless on rotation with a specific team and attending something for educational purposes

A junior doctor is an Intern, paid to work, under the supervision of a consultant for one year post qualification. They are not medical students they are graduates.

Johnny Utah

Medicine in Ireland is a closed shop. The judgment below details the fact that the medical unions in this country have always strongly resisted any attempts to increase the number of entrants to the medical profession to satisfy demand. In fact, in the late 1970s, the medical unions/medical schools and the HEA succeeded in reducing the number of Irish medical graduates from 556 to only 300,a figure which has remained more or less the same to the present day. This decision to reduce the number of Irish medical graduates was brought about after pressure was brought to bare by the medical unions on the Dept. of Health to reduce the number of Irish medicine graduates and thereby 'protect doctors jobs'. Therefore, doctors in Ireland continue operate in a closed shop and as a result their fees are artificially high.


http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/526c9e17bcf073d88025749600326023?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Prendergast




If the profession was opened up, a routine GP appointment would only cost €10-€20.

bangersandmash

Novella wrote: »

Well, I hope to study Medicine next year and while I don't plan on being a GP, (I'd like to specialise), I think considering how much work goes into getting that degree in the first place, charging 50/60 euro a visit isn't that substancial.

It takes a massive amount of interest, dedication and sheer hard work to become qualified and I'll never begrudge any doctor the money they earn.

I don't disagree. But there are many other professions that require a huge amount of interest, dedication and hard work prior to becoming qualified, and yet will never receive a fraction of the remuneration that a GP will receive. There is an unfortunate tendency to put medical courses on a social pedestal in this country, which does not necessarily attract the right applicants.

Unfortunately my own experiences are similar to those of the OP - many GPs seem to stop learning and close their minds the day they graduate, and then spend their professional careers going through the motions. Complaining to your GP, or seeking the best 2 out of 3, 4 out of 5 etc opinions rarely improves matters.

emtrgnmb

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Medicine in Ireland is a closed shop. This judgment below details the fact that the medical unions in this country have strongly resisted any attempts to increase the number of entrants to the medical profession.


http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/526c9e17bcf073d88025749600326023?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,Prendergast

The numbers studying medicine in Ireland have increased dramtically in the past number of years, nearly doubled in fact.

The case above has nothing to do with Medical unions, the gentleman in question did not attain the required academic standard to gain entrance to medical school. The case was against the higher education authority, not any medical union.

Even if undergraduate medicine places were increased further there is nothing to say that the medical graduates would choose to become GPs.

All General Professional training courses are heavily overprescribed at present. What is needed is more places in these postgraduate courses.

CDfm

emtrgnmb wrote: »

The numbers studying medicine in Ireland have increased dramtically in the past number of years, nearly doubled in fact.

Does that mean the number of gentlemen doctors has increased

Johnny Utah

emtrgnmb wrote: »

The numbers studying medicine in Ireland have increased dramtically in the past number of years, nearly doubled in fact.

The case above has nothing to do with Medical unions, the gentleman in question did not attain the required academic standard to gain entrance to medical school. The case was against the higher education authority, not any medical union.

Even if undergraduate medicine places were increased further there is nothing to say that the medical graduates would choose to become GPs.

All General Professional training courses are heavily overprescribed at present. What is needed is more places in these postgraduate courses.

Read my post again- I said the numbers for Irish medical graduates had been reduced in the 70s and that figure has remained more or less the same since. The HEA/medical unions made the decision to reduce numbers of Irish graduates, and therefore, when a case on entry into the profession arises, the decisions made by those two bodies must be examined. Read the judgment in full to understand the history of the Irish medical profession and how it operates as a closed shop.

emtrgnmb

CDfm wrote: »

Does that mean the number of gentlemen doctors has increased

Well of late the number of females entering medicine has been higher than males Traditionally 60f/40m, some with higher f. But the introduction of the HPAT exam seem to have shaken that up a bit. It has given near enough 50/50 this year.

K-9

Are people seriously suggesting €50-60 for a 10-15 minute visit is ok and reasonable?

Costs and charges have to come down in this economy and doctors are not immune to that.

Lands Leaving

Everybody's right. Simple.

GP's do a huge amount of training and deserve the reward they get for their sacrifices, unfortunately the average person has to budget for a gp visit, which is unfair.

It's not the GP's fault, they just ask for the going rate, wouldn't you? It's the healthcare system in general, which fails to be 'free' as it claims to be.

A GP should cost, as someone said earlier, a nominal fee to keep the people who don't really need it away, and their wages should be covered by the government. People on a medical card should pay nothing. The system encouraging people to avoid getting their problems checked is horrible, and needs serious amending, but from the top down. GP's just do their job to be fair, and earn less than a lot of people who just make advertising or move money about or other such bs. It's absurd to think with their training and the nature of their work, both hazardous and often disgusting, that they should earn less than they do.

I had to visit my GP today and can say I was happy with the service provided, it was professional and helpful and I trust the expertise of someone qualified and experienced. Was it worth what I paid... of course, I needed to get checked out... do I think I should be paying that much? No, of course not, but I don't think it's up to my GP to say he wants to cut his own wages!

And if you think your GP has done nothing, then consider that a good thing, it means nothing's wrong!

Also 'LostinBlanch' surely you're all in favour of GPS with that name

emtrgnmb

The number of non-EU places is being reduced.

The number of EU places is being increased.

The intoduction of graduate entry medical programs has near doubled the amount of places. The number of traditional route places has also increased.

The number of intern places is far below the amount that graduate. So even if more Irish filled these non-EU places we wouldnt have an intern program to allow then to become fully registered medical practitioners.

Even if we did increase these places, there is nothing to say more of them would study to become a GP.

Read the Fottrell report.

CDfm

K-9 wrote: »

Are people seriously suggesting €50-60 for a 10-15 minute visit is ok and reasonable?

Costs and charges have to come down in this economy and doctors are not immune to that.

And all the expensive training they get for free.

If they emigrate there is no economic/social/medical benefit to the country.

Cant we put them into bonded servitude for a few years as payback or impoert doctors instead to bring the price down?

Noangel72

....this shows how the professionalisation of the medical trade and the medicalisation of our society has brainwashed us into thinking that they deserve to get paid whatever they want and can withdraw information from patients whenever they wish so!....some of the soft attitudes expressed on this thread wouldn't be applied to any other profession.....would you pay a mechanic if he did a bad job on your car?, would you pay a solicitor if he gave you a poor service?, would you put up with a retailer for selling you poor quality or defective merchandise?

...recent history in Ireland has changed our blind respect for Gardai and Priests; maybe we should reserve some scepticism for Doctors too!

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

And all the expensive training they get for free.

If they emigrate there is no economic/social/medical benefit to the country.

Cant we put them into bonded servitude for a few years as payback or impoert doctors instead to bring the price down?

Some Emigration isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure people have been voluntarily emigrating in the last decade for economic, social and educational purposes, it wasn't seen as a problem because we had net immigration.

CDfm

K-9 wrote: »

Some Emigration isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure people have been voluntarily emigrating in the last decade for economic, social and educational purposes, it wasn't seen as a problem because we had net immigration.

Yes but all that expensive training and social advancement and professional earning capacity.

If you recruit a Cadet in the Army and train him as an engineer -then you recover the cost of his training or he has to buy his way out. Whats so different?

We can get doctors from abroad without paying huge training fees and if we left a few thousand in it could reduce prices. Look at Aldi and Lidl??

And I don't want to hear that Irish doctors are world class because we have plenty of foreign ones who will do house calls and Irish doctors wont.

emtrgnmb

Noangel72 wrote: »

can withdraw information from patients whenever they wish so

I dont know what exactly suggesting you doctor has done here? To do so would be unethical.

"how the professionalisation of the medical trade" are you suggesting doctors become less professional?

"brainwashed us into thinking that they deserve to get paid whatever they want"

This is obviously not the case, otherwise the charge would be €200 for per consultation.

"would you pay a mechanic if he did a bad job on your car?"

I certainly wouldn't. And I dont think complaining about the situation on boards would make any impact on improving the condition of my car.

So if you are so unhappy with you doctor, why did you pay him, without making all your feelings known to him? Are you afraid of him or his secretary?

"would you put up with a retailer for selling you poor quality or defective merchandise?"

Majority of people would not, and the majority of people, if unhappy with a retailer would complain.

I do not agree with the price of GP consultations. I do feel the profession need to review the situation.

But you seem to have a problem with your doctor, then his clinical aptitude, then the price, then doctors in general. I'm beginning to think there is more to this than meets the eye.

Herbal Deity

Novella wrote: »

Well, I hope to study Medicine next year and while I don't plan on being a GP, (I'd like to specialise), I think considering how much work goes into getting that degree in the first place, charging 50/60 euro a visit isn't that substancial.

It takes a massive amount of interest, dedication and sheer hard work to become qualified and I'll never begrudge any doctor the money they earn.

pfft...

By all accounts it's no harder a degree than any other. The points being high means that the course is in high demand, not that it's any more difficult than any other college degree.

Medical Doctors aren't untouchable, exceptional examples of the pinnacle of academic excellence. We have every right to criticise them.

CDfm

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Medical Doctors aren't untouchable, exceptional examples of the pinnacle of academic excellence. We have every right to criticise them.

But should make an exception for Novella:)

emtrgnmb

Herbal Deity wrote: »

pfft...
By all accounts it's no harder a degree than any other. The points being high means that the course is in high demand, not that it's any more difficult than any other college degree.

It is well recognised that medicine is one of the most challenging academic courses one can undertake. This can be demonstrated quite easily. Any university will confirm this. No one has suggested that points requirements reflect the difficulty of an undergraduate degree, while there would appear to be some correlation.

"Medical Doctors aren't untouchable, exceptional examples of the pinnacle of academic excellence." This is however correct. But who here has suggested they are. What Novella has said regarding interest, dedication and sheer hard work is very accurate.

"We have every right to criticise them." What as people, students, clinicians, professionals, business people.....??? In what sense? You have as much right to criticise them, as they have you.

Lands Leaving

Herbal Deity wrote: »

By all accounts it's no harder a degree than any other. The points being high means that the course is in high demand, not that it's any more difficult than any other college degree.

It's not just a degree though. It's a 7 year PhD. Which is a damn sight harder than a 3/4 year degree. Add to that the huge workload for a medical student and the fact they have to compete for work as soon as they finish theur course, and usually get saddled with nasty shift work and no social life. You need some dedication to do something like that, and I can't see why people who are willing to do it aren't entitled to the financial rewards most other wealthy people get for much less (note: I say most, not all.)

The points I will give you, leaving cert points are a load of bs and reflect your ability to get the right grinds for the most part, and fail to show that someone can do anything other than learn things off by heart. But that doesn't take away from how hard a course in medicine actually is. I knew a girl who did it and she basically was doing a science degree for 3 years, plus all the medical stuff, working more than most would in a demanding job, it's like doing two courses at once.

I say fair play to Novella for wanting to take it on, it's a hell of a lot of work and you deserve the rewards at the end of it.

The average taxpayer unfortunately, just doesn't deserve the insane cost of getting a cold fixed. What about a €10 or €20 service to just get you a prescription for antibiotics that you can't get without seeing a doctor. Or even over the counter medicine like they have in Spain. Then you'd only need to pay full price when there's a major problem.

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

Yes but all that expensive training and social advancement and professional earning capacity.

If you recruit a Cadet in the Army and train him as an engineer -then you recover the cost of his training or he has to buy his way out. Whats so different?

We can get doctors from abroad without paying huge training fees and if we left a few thousand in it could reduce prices. Look at Aldi and Lidl??

And I don't want to hear that Irish doctors are world class because we have plenty of foreign ones who will do house calls and Irish doctors wont.

Except the Army and the HSE doesn't have the money to recruit more at the minute, same with teachers, nurses etc.

Think they tried to recruit more consultants from abroad. Don't think it went down well with the IMO. Not sure what happened that in the end.

CDfm

emtrgnmb wrote: »

It is well recognised that medicine is one of the most challenging academic courses one can undertake. This can be demonstrated quite easily. Any university will confirm this. No one has suggested that points requirements reflect the difficulty of an undergraduate degree, while there would appear to be some correlation.

"Medical Doctors aren't untouchable, exceptional examples of the pinnacle of academic excellence." This is however correct. But who here has suggested they are. What Novella has said regarding interest, dedication and sheer hard work is very accurate.

I dont know given the academic skill and concentration any person with an academic orientation can make it.

But not every footballer can be a David Beckam and not every chef a Gordon Ramsey.

Km Peek -on whom the movie Rainman and who has died was a savant who could memorise books -that meant he was classed as retarded. So maybe being a doctor is not that special.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/22/kim-peek-rain-man-dies

CDfm

K-9 wrote: »

Except the Army and the HSE doesn't have the money to recruit more at the minute, same with teachers, nurses etc.

Think they tried to recruit more consultants from abroad. Don't think it went down well with the IMO. Not sure what happened that in the end.

Not the point -service to pay for their training - they owe us.

Lands Leaving

A doctor has to do more than memorize books though, they have to be able to tell one lump from all the others.

Although your point about memorizing books applied to the leaving cert... different story!

Herbal Deity

emtrgnmb wrote: »

It is well recognised that medicine is one of the most challenging academic courses one can undertake. This can be demonstrated quite easily. Any university will confirm this. No one has suggested that points requirements reflect the difficulty of an undergraduate degree, while there would appear to be some correlation.

I don't think any of this is true. It's widely thought of as a difficult course, but from what I hear about it, and what people I know doing it say, there's nothing special about it that sets it apart from any other science related course.

I don't doubt that it is a difficult degree, I just abhor the pedestal that it's put on (which in turn fuels the "prestige" of it and inflates the demand and thus points for it)

emtrgnmb wrote: »

"Medical Doctors aren't untouchable, exceptional examples of the pinnacle of academic excellence." This is however correct. But who here has suggested they are. What Novella has said regarding interest, dedication and sheer hard work is very accurate.

Same with any other profession. Just because someone's worked hard and has a university qualification doesn't exempt people from criticising the service they offer.

emtrgnmb wrote: »

"We have every right to criticise them." What as people, students, clinicians, professionals, business people.....??? In what sense? You have as much right to criticise them, as they have you.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you have in bold.

I have every right to say I think GPs overcharge if I wish.

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

Not the point -service to pay for their training - they owe us.

Indeed, I brought that up on one of the teacher threads on politics as a way to cover the unpaid leave suggested by the Unions.

Tumbleweed!

CDfm

Lands Leaving wrote: »

A doctor has to do more than memorize books though, they have to be able to tell one lump from all the others.

Although your point about memorizing books applied to the leaving cert... different story!

Aha - not everone hasthe dexterity to be a surgeon or a jeweller.

A person who can memorise books with a modicum of socialskills and dexterity can be a doctor.

During the performance of a Shakespeare play, Kim Peek suddenly stood up and shouted out "Stop!" When an actor asked him what was wrong, he said: "You've missed out a word from that line." The actor apologised and said he did not think anyone would mind. "Shakespeare would," Peek replied.

And academic excellence in technical subjects concerns accuracy and interpretation of data which others do too.

Herbal Deity

Lands Leaving wrote: »

It's not just a degree though. It's a 7 year PhD. Which is a damn sight harder than a 3/4 year degree.

Well, ok. But compared to doing a PhD in any other subject?

CDfm

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, I brought that up on one of the teacher threads on politics as a way to cover the unpaid leave suggested by the Unions.

Tumbleweed!

It is a good point as it is a commodity that is traded so why not.

It used to happen in primary teaching by the way.

CDfm

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Well, ok. But compared to doing a PhD in any other subject?

it not like a phD as GPs are generalists - a Masters maybe

Im going to be really mean and say a nurse with a prescription pad and if the Nurses of Ireland have their way they will all be doctors sooon.

Lands Leaving

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Well, ok. But compared to doing a PhD in any other subject?

No... but then if you do a PhD in any other subject and get a job off the back of it you can likely expect a similarly large financial reward.

I do agree that gps are too expensive, but I think it's on the government to better regulate it than the GP's themselves. They earn a wage comparable with the top rank of many professions, it's just unfortunate that they deal directly with the public and often a public who can't afford their services.

Healthcare should be universal and affordable, if not free. But at the same time, we can't punish the hard work of people who want to be doctors, just because they're at the frontline of medicine.

Herbal Deity

I've wondered that before actually. To be a medical doctor, do you actually need a PhD in Medicine?

CDfm

Herbal Deity wrote: »

I've wondered that before actually. To be a medical doctor, do you actually need a PhD in Medicine?

No

emtrgnmb

Herbal Deity wrote: »

I don't think any of this is true. It's widely thought of as a difficult course, but from what I hear about it, and what people I know doing it say, there's nothing special about it that sets it apart from any other science related course.

Speaking from first hand experience, having completed a primary degree and other qualifications before entering the degree in question, I can tell you, the opinion of myself, and colleagues who have also completed other qualifications before entering medicine is that it is one of the most challenging undergraduate degrees out there. I suspect your friends who find it easy are super bright, and hence got a place in medicine, but did they complete a degree before to compare it to...