Prime Time (w)Bankers

zootroid

PeakOutput wrote: »

hope this goes up on rte player soon sounds like it was a good watch

on the other hand no matter what is in it it dosnt change much

it dosnt mean the bail outs shouldnt have happened or the private sector people who were made redundant shouldnt have been, it dosnt mean ps pay cuts shouldnt have happened it just means we are learning more about what caused the mess

as someone else said on here anger and revenge towards bankers is not a policy that will save the country

Well it might go some way to act as a deterrent so that it doesn't happen again. I'd certainly be in favour of bankers facing huge fines and possible jail time if it shows they broke the law. For instance, the 8 billion transfer between Anglo and Irish Life is definitely illegal, and so someone should be held to account

PeakOutput

zootroid wrote: »

Well it might go some way to act as a deterrent so that it doesn't happen again. I'd certainly be in favour of bankers facing huge fines and possible jail time if it shows they broke the law. For instance, the 8 billion transfer between Anglo and Irish Life is definitely illegal, and so someone should be held to account

ye and when the people charged with saving our country get time to worry about that im sure they will(maybe not this goverment but the next)

the time for revenge/justice is not now
thats not even to mention the fact that the gardai are investigating all this as we speak but because its not front page people think its not happening

cson

zootroid wrote: »

Well it might go some way to act as a deterrent so that it doesn't happen again. I'd certainly be in favour of bankers facing huge fines and possible jail time if it shows they broke the law. For instance, the 8 billion transfer between Anglo and Irish Life is definitely illegal, and so someone should be held to account

It's not an illegal transaction per se; it's the recording of it as a customer deposit by Anglo that's illegal. Now you can bet FitzPatrick will wash his hands of that charge onto a junior executive who signed off on it.

doc_17

PeakOutput wrote: »

and what would be the result of that? they might MIGHT go to jail or be prosecuted and fined for something, maybe.......then what our country would still be ****ed and everything thats happened in the mean time would still need to happen only it would have been 12months too late

The point of doing something is obvious enough I would have thought. If you let them away scot free with it then it sends a signal that bad behaviur is not punished so there is no fear, thus no reason for banks to stop engaging in disastrous policy. They are not one bit worried about the rest of us, as the recent pay rise they awarded themselves showed, while the rest of us in the public and private sector have had to take a pay CUT. Thats what they think of us. We're like something they step on and don't even bother to look at. Except when they need it cleaned off.

Banks depositing large amounts in each others accounts to enhance balance sheets? Banks handing out loans to politicians willy nilly? Instructions from the Central Bank being ignored? These guys not paying the interest on their loans which means we will have to pay for it? Anger alone will get us nowhere, but a wee bit of reform wouldn't hurt either would it?

Are you saying we should move on and do nothing? You must be one of them!!!!

stepbar

The prime time programme will probably be, in time, one of the most defining programmes in Irish history. Nothing really suprised me tonight, as it focused primarily on Anglo and Irish Nationwide.

As far as I'm concerned both of them banks are responcible, along with the Financial Regulator for what is now happening in Ireland. Of course, the traditional banks have their fair share to blame. But as markets go, companies compete, and as such, because of the reckless lending the like of Anglo and INBS were engaging in, forced the traditional banks to act, rightly or wrongly. One must ask where was the Financial Regulator in all this. They were clearly lacking in terms of financial regulation during the years from 2005 - 2007. I doubt anyone from the office of the Financial Regulator will be jailed for their inaction.

zootroid

cson wrote: »

It's not an illegal transaction per se; it's the recording of it as a customer deposit by Anglo that's illegal. Now you can bet FitzPatrick will wash his hands of that charge onto a junior executive who signed off on it.

Well that's what I was referring to, an interbank transfer being reclassified by Anglo as a customer deposit, thereby falsifying its financial statements, and misleading a whole host of stakeholders.

zootroid

stepbar wrote: »

The prime time programme will probably be, in time, one of the most defining programmes in Irish history. Nothing really suprised me tonight, as it focused primarily on Anglo and Irish Nationwide.

As far as I'm concerned both of them banks are responcible, along with the Financial Regulator for what is now happening in Ireland. Of course, the traditional banks have their fair share to blame. But as markets go, companies compete, and as such, because of the reckless lending the like of Anglo and INBS were engaging in, forced the traditional banks to act, rightly or wrongly. One must ask were was the Financial Regulator in all this. They were clearly lacking in terms of financial regulation during the years from 2005 - 2007. I doubt anyone from the office of the Financial Regulator will be jailed for their inaction.

Jailed? Pat Neary was rewarded for his incompetence ffs!!!

Slideshowbob

Sean Fitz owes 400k per month in interest

aint paying it

JAIL HIM

start at the top

they led us all on a merry dance!!

better off lookin at the big developers that aint payin their repayments and hammer them than going after mccreevys 100k - then the slush fund for the politicians will dry up

Is Sean Dunne making the repayments on Jurys and Berkeley Court?!?

nesf

Good show, good contributions by the whistle blowers and other commentators. I'd love to say I was surprised by it but I wasn't.


One question that wasn't asked that I'd really like to know is whether these "fast tracked" loans with minimal paperwork something that only FF TDs indulged in or whether it was something broader in the political system.

ghost_ie

PeakOutput wrote: »

hope this goes up on rte player soon sounds like it was a good watch

on the other hand no matter what is in it it dosnt change much

it dosnt mean the bail outs shouldnt have happened or the private sector people who were made redundant shouldnt have been, it dosnt mean ps pay cuts shouldnt have happened it just means we are learning more about what caused the mess

as someone else said on here anger and revenge towards bankers is not a policy that will save the country

Certainly anger and revenge towards bankers won't save the country, but if people were to see bankers punished - fired from their jobs without golden handshakes would be a good start - it would make it more palatable for those who have lost their jobs to see their social welfare payments cut, or for low- and average-paid public servants to see their salaries being reduced.

PeakOutput

doc_17 wrote: »

The point of doing something is obvious enough I would have thought. If you let them away scot free with it then it sends a signal that bad behaviur is not punished so there is no fear, thus no reason for banks to stop engaging in disastrous policy. They are not one bit worried about the rest of us, as the recent pay rise they awarded themselves showed, while the rest of us in the public and private sector have had to take a pay CUT. Thats what they think of us. We're like something they step on and don't even bother to look at. Except when they need it cleaned off.

Banks depositing large amounts in each others accounts to enhance balance sheets? Banks handing out loans to politicians willy nilly? Instructions from the Central Bank being ignored? These guys not paying the interest on their loans which means we will have to pay for it? Anger alone will get us nowhere, but a wee bit of reform wouldn't hurt either would it?

Are you saying we should move on and do nothing? You must be one of them!!!!

you obviously didnt read what i said. i never said dont do anything asked were would we be now, right now if thats what we had of concentrated on in the first place instead of the important stuff

the gardai are investigating leave it at that the day they close the investigation without any action is the day to get your knickers in a twist over it

imme

nesf wrote: »

Good show, good contributions by the whistle blowers and other commentators. I'd love to say I was surprised by it but I wasn't.


One question that wasn't asked that I'd really like to know is whether these "fast tracked" loans with minimal paperwork something that only FF TDs indulged in or whether it was something broader in the political system.

FF senators and C McCreevey were highlighted, no other pol reps were mentioned. I have heard that media figures were also beneficiaries of similar treatment. This was also mentioned in the show. The media figures I heard of were staff of a media outlet friendly to Fingers.

PeakOutput

ghost_ie wrote: »

Certainly anger and revenge towards bankers won't save the country, but if people were to see bankers punished - fired from their jobs without golden handshakes would be a good start - it would make it more palatable for those who have lost their jobs to see their social welfare payments cut, or for low- and average-paid public servants to see their salaries being reduced.

right assuming these golden handshake packages are contractual

are you suggesting the goverment dishonour on mass legally binding contracts?

they just cant do it

what they can do(and maybe i am naieve even after all this)and i beleive they will do is rescue the country then go after the guys who caused it

Slideshowbob

someone should be accountable

by jailing bankers / large lendees who cant afford repayment if would serve as a lesson for future generations

otherwisr where is the down side to the risks the developers took. they made millions when things were good - so where is the down side to their risks - borne by the taxpayer - is that fair?

steamjetjoe

Its uploaded to the RTE PLAYER now.

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1063007

PeakOutput

Slideshowbob wrote: »

someone should be accountable

by jailing bankers / large lendees who cant afford repayment if would serve as a lesson for future generations

otherwisr where is the down side to the risks the developers took. they made millions when things were good - so where is the down side to their risks - borne by the taxpayer - is that fair?

should the same punishment for not being able to pay the banks then also not be handed out to the other people who took out large loans during the boom times and now cant pay them back?

6ix

PeakOutput wrote: »

right assuming these golden handshake packages are contractual

are you suggesting the goverment dishonour on mass legally binding contracts?

they just cant do it

what they can do(and maybe i am naieve even after all this)and i beleive they will do is rescue the country then go after the guys who caused it

You're right about the legally binding contracts, but you're being extremely naive if you think they're going to chase up the people responsible. This was and still is, one big cartel between a small group of bankers, business people (mainly property) and politicians. There was no real attempt to hide what was going on (Galway Races FF tent and all the understood references to it), and anyone who even reads a newspaper or other Irish forums about politics or the property market would have know all about this for years.

There may be a couple of token criminal investigations, but we're not going to see the people who caused it getting caught. I'd wager my pitiful income on it.

zootroid

PeakOutput wrote: »

right assuming these golden handshake packages are contractual

are you suggesting the goverment dishonour on mass legally binding contracts?

they just cant do it

what they can do(and maybe i am naieve even after all this)and i beleive they will do is rescue the country then go after the guys who caused it

Well it would obviously be on a case by case basis.

But in the case of Neary, the man retired, so why did he receive a golden handshake?

In any case he should have been fired. It was clear to all that he didn't do his job.

If his retirement was coerced, and that was the reason for the golden handshake, then it should never have happened as he had been incompetent and should have been fired.

Sorry for repeating myself, but I just can't get over how people get away with stuff like that.

The Black Oil

Ah, Ireland you can't beat it, eh? No doubt Bertie sleeps soundly at night.

nesf

imme wrote: »

FF senators and C McCreevey were highlighted, no other pol reps were mentioned. I have heard that media figures were also beneficiaries of similar treatment. This was also mentioned in the show. The media figures I heard of were staff of a media outlet friendly to Fingers.

Yeah not mentioning other politicians doesn't mean they weren't involved. I'd be very curious to see just how widespread this kind of treatment was at the "top" of Irish society.

stepbar

Unfortunatly the man had a legal watertight contract. Employment laws protect every man and woman in this country. Be it right or wrong the law prevails.

hinault

It was a good show - the only new information we learned was that Nationwide gave some politicians loans without getting the required approval documentation signed before granting approval.

The implicit message from the programme was that the politicians are in some way complicit in what went on.

It was interesting to see Seanie at the end of the programme being doorstepped.
He looked quite hassled.

And driving away in a Passat too!

gnxx

PeakOutput wrote: »

should the same punishment for not being able to pay the banks then also not be handed out to the other people who took out large loans during the boom times and now cant pay them back?

Why should it?

A company director ( IE a property developer ) or a bank officer have a legal duty to behave in a proper manner. If directors or bank officers behave in a reckless fashion, falsifying documents etc they are breaking the law.

Individuals who submit false documents are also subject to the law. I doubt we will see this happening though, since individuals were often advised how to beat the system by bank staff.

stepbar

hinault wrote: »

It was a good show - the only new information we learned was that Nationwide gave some politicians loans without getting the required approval documentation signed before granting approval.

The implicit message from the programme was that the politicians are in some way complicit in what went on.

It was interesting to see Seanie at the end of the programme being doorstepped.
He looked quite hassled.

And driving away in a Passat too!

Only a Passat...... jeasus how times have changes.

hinault

I can tell you now that sections of the companies acts were broken by both the directors of irish life and permanent and anglo, through the window dressing of their year end balance sheets.

Those transfers between both companies at their respective year ends is illegal and deliberately misleading investors and potential investors.

Why prosecutions have not been brought already, under the companies acts, defies belief.

That's just for starters.

hinault

stepbar wrote: »

Only a Passat...... jeasus how times have changes.

Yep "only" a Passat.

imme

nesf wrote: »

Yeah not mentioning other politicians doesn't mean they weren't involved. I'd be very curious to see just how widespread this kind of treatment was at the "top" of Irish society.

*points nesf to the Conspiracy Theory Thread*

this practice was only highlighted in INBS. Overall it's not crucial, but shows up a laxity that was also evident in their risk analysis of the billions they lent for example.


I didn't have you down as an FFer:p

stepbar

imme wrote: »

*points nesf to the Conspiracy Theory Thread*

this practice was only highlighted in INBS. Overall it's not crucial, but shows up a laxity that was also evident in their risk analysis of the billions they lent for example.


I didn't have you down as an FFer:p

80% of INBS loans are going to NAMA. If the same was applied to other banks, the country would be fcuked. Clearly the like of BOI / AIB don't have 80% of their lending going to NAMA.

nesf

imme wrote: »

*points nesf to the Conspiracy Theory Thread*

this practice was only highlighted in INBS. Overall it's not crucial, but shows up a laxity that was also evident in their risk analysis of the billions they lent for example.

Well they were shovelling money out to ordinary people with both hands, it's not surprising that the "elite" were getting even better treatment.

imme wrote: »

I didn't have you down as an FFer:p

Nah, I just don't vilify them to the same extent that other people do. I don't have much faith that a FG/Lab Government would have been able to resist the temptations that come with presiding over a booming economy.

PeakOutput

gnxx wrote: »

Why should it?

A company director ( IE a property developer ) or a bank officer have a legal duty to behave in a proper manner. If directors or bank officers behave in a reckless fashion, falsifying documents etc they are breaking the law.

Individuals who submit false documents are also subject to the law. I doubt we will see this happening though, since individuals were often advised how to beat the system by bank staff.

so you believe that the developers were getting loans illegally? forget about the politicians etc but the developers? you beleive there is a comma out of place on the what half a billion loan? that was taken out for the place on the southside(ringsend i think)

i dont believe that. i also dont believe you can have one rule for the rich and one for the poor be it one that benefits the poor or not