N21 Thread

marno21

AA Roadwatch now saying the realignment works on the Abbeyfeale side of Newcastlewest are to continue til December.

Any chance they could just build the Abbeyfeale - Adare scheme and stop with all the bollixing regarding roadworks? 8 months of works this year, we had the resurfacing of Newcastlewest last year and not too long ago the works at Barnagh

marno21

Barnagh - Killarney Pole (Phase 2) realignment is now almost complete. The new road is paved and lined but there's still a few bits to do as there's still cones out and the 60km/h limit remains in place.

7 months of disruption (especially the May bank holiday weekend for those that remember) for 1.5km of realigned road though

Suppose it's all we'll get for the moment until the Adare-Abbeyfeale scheme starts sometime in the 2030's

spacetweek

Can you show me where that is on a map?

lottpaul

spacetweek wrote: »

Can you show me where that is on a map?

52.437155, -9.092067 is the approx start reference point. Enter that on any google maps and it will bring you to the start of the present works. The new road is just to the south of the old N21 for just over 1km towards Abbeyfeale rejoining the existing N21 just before Garryduff Cross.

spacetweek

Page 5 of this doc on the proposed M28 is an interesting read.

According to the TII's logic, the new Ringaskiddy road must be motorway because the EU designated it a Trans European Network road, and the only road classification in Ireland that satisfies the EU's level of service requirements for TEN roads is motorway.

However, since Foynes to Limerick is also TEN, does that mean that the Adare bypass and new road to Foynes will also be motorway? That would be quite a lot if it was, about 31 km if they choose the route via Rathkeale.

Leonard Hofstadter

spacetweek wrote: »

Page 5 of this doc on the proposed M28 is an interesting read.

According to the TII's logic, the new Ringaskiddy road must be motorway because the EU designated it a Trans European Network road, and the only road classification in Ireland that satisfies the EU's level of service requirements for TEN roads is motorway.

However, since Foynes to Limerick is also TEN, does that mean that the Adare bypass and new road to Foynes will also be motorway? That would be quite a lot if it was, about 31 km if they choose the route via Rathkeale.

That's very interesting. They're surely not going to build a motorway from Rathkeale to Foynes:eek:? The Adare bypass most certainly should be a motorway (and while they're at it, they should re-classify the N21 east of Adare to motorway as it's the exact same standard of road as the M20 that it joins onto), and if they're going as far as Rathkeale, then to there should also be a full blown motorway as that road is extremely busy.

marno21

captainspeed wrote: »

That's very interesting. They're surely not going to build a motorway from Rathkeale to Foynes:eek:? The Adare bypass most certainly should be a motorway (and while they're at it, they should re-classify the N21 east of Adare to motorway as it's the exact same standard of road as the M20 that it joins onto), and if they're going as far as Rathkeale, then to there should also be a full blown motorway as that road is extremely busy.

The existing 1km or so of dual carriageway on the N21 can't be declared motorway at present as the only way for non motorway traffic to get off the road is to get off at the M20 junction, which is where the motorway starts anyway.

The N21 should be dualled along its length. I'd like to see the Headleys Bridge - Feale Bridge scheme retrofitted as it's completely grade separated. The only issue being the Feale bridge may be too narrow for 4 lanes.

Mrs Dempsey

marno21 wrote: »

............. I'd like to see the Headleys Bridge - Feale Bridge scheme retrofitted as it's completely grade separated. The only issue being the Feale bridge may be too narrow for 4 lanes.

There is one at grade junction - a dangerous right turn for Knocknagoshel when heading west; positioned at the end of a 2 lane overtaking section. Designed by a 2 year old? :eek:

marno21

Mrs Dempsey wrote: »

There is one at grade junction - a dangerous right turn for Knocknagoshel when heading west; positioned at the end of a 2 lane overtaking section. Designed by a 2 year old? :eek:

This turn can be accommodated by either the left turn onto the R576 (old N21) just before Feales Bridge heading westbound or the turn into the old N21 just where this scheme starts. The major junction on this scheme (for the R576 is effectively grade separated as there is two turn offs, one on the left side of the road and one on the right, albeit they are ~1km apart)

Mrs Dempsey

The left turn heading west before Feale bridge works but is not signed for Knocknagoshel or Listowel - the next junction has a sign for these destinations [an at grade right turn] suggesting that the "road planners" saw this as the primary exit. I generally take the left as you describe since coming close to being rear ended one wet night by someone extending their overtaking opportunity over the ghost (painted) traffic island. As I say designed by a 2 year old?

Carawaystick

spacetweek wrote: »

Page 5 of this doc on the proposed M28 is an interesting read.

According to the TII's logic, the new Ringaskiddy road must be motorway because the EU designated it a Trans European Network road, and the only road classification in Ireland that satisfies the EU's level of service requirements for TEN roads is motorway.

The Lynch Tunnel or Suir Cable stayed bridge fulfil those 3 requirements and are not Motorway

marno21

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2015/09/17/concern-over-n21-adare-road-improvement-works/

Plans afoot to upgrade the stretch of absolute dirt road on the Rathkeale side of Adare before it widens out to WS2.

Very bad stretch of road but will a) be bypassed by new N21/N69 road and b) will lead to substantial delays

Not safe to do near 100km/h on it at present

rliston

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2015/09/17/concern-over-n21-adare-road-improvement-works/

Plans afoot to upgrade the stretch of absolute dirt road on the Rathkeale side of Adare before it widens out to WS2.

Very bad stretch of road but will a) be bypassed by new N21/N69 road and b) will lead to substantial delays

Not safe to do near 100km/h on it at present

That's for the stretch in the village from the town hall to the ballingarry turn off, the section inside the 50 and 60 km/hspeed limt

marno21

The dip in the road just before the southern end of the Castleisland-Abbeyfeale 2006 scheme, near Headley's Bridge, is being repaired this week. A stop go system is in place.

pajoguy

marno21 wrote: »

The dip in the road just before the southern end of the Castleisland-Abbeyfeale 2006 scheme, near Headley's Bridge, is being repaired this week. A stop go system is in place.

Is this the dip thats been repaired more than once? Could be a spot for some light weight fill?
Its not a big area but it is material that has to be imported. Used on a much larger scale on the bunratty bypass.

marno21

pajoguy wrote: »

Is this the dip thats been repaired more than once? Could be a spot for some light weight fill?
Its not a big area but it is material that has to be imported. Used on a much larger scale on the bunratty bypass.

Yeah, that's the one. I passed it at night so didn't get a proper look at what was going on. To say the road is down to one lane for the week I'd assume it's a proper job this time and not throwing more tarmac up on it.

pedro6105

I passed today, they had one side dug out and had layers of steel mesh in the base of the trench and were just going pouring concrete onto it

Leonard Hofstadter

pedro6105 wrote: »

I passed today, they had one side dug out and had layers of steel mesh in the base of the trench and were just going pouring concrete onto it

Does that mean the problem will re-appear in a few years' time, then? Apologies if I've taken up the meaning of what you've said incorrectly.

spacetweek

captainspeed wrote: »

Does that mean the problem will re-appear in a few years' time, then? Apologies if I've taken up the meaning of what you've said incorrectly.

I think he means it won't. If they had only been resurfacing with no road base reconstruction, the problem would recur.

pedro6105

This repair should solve the problem permanently. The dip in the road was due to a pipe that crossed the road and was installed during the original construction of the road. The trench wasn't back filled correctly hence the subsidence in the road.

Leonard Hofstadter

Thanks lads, good to know they're doing it properly rather than trying to find an Irish solution to an Irish problem!

Irish_rat

marno21 wrote: »

I'd like to see the Headleys Bridge - Feale Bridge scheme retrofitted as it's completely grade separated. The only issue being the Feale bridge may be too narrow for 4 lanes.

That scheme isint grade separated but can be type 2 dual with two LILO's if the signage is good. You will just have to drive a bit more on the old N21.

To be honest I think the traffic levels are very light on that section that WS2 is fine for the moment. Bigger problems now with Abbeyfeale, NCW, Glantine and Adare requiring bypasses although it's good the latter is in another revamped planning stage.

The Barna realignment was badly needed and the resurfaced climbing lane. The N21 through limerick will be vastly improved when the M21 section is done

marno21

rliston wrote: »

That's for the stretch in the village from the town hall to the ballingarry turn off, the section inside the 50 and 60 km/hspeed limt

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=99839&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

First tender for this went out today.

marno21

rliston wrote: »

That's for the stretch in the village from the town hall to the ballingarry turn off, the section inside the 50 and 60 km/hspeed limt

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=99839&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Tender for stage 1 of this awarded today, expect to see roadworks in Adare soon.

marno21

Any N21 regulars here? It's so bad this summer it'd nearly be faster to cycle the Southern Trail that they've put down on the old NK railway line.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Any N21 regulars here? It's so bad this summer it'd nearly be faster to cycle the Southern Trail that they've put down on the old NK railway line.

Dreadful spot. For me Kerry isn't worth the hassle for a weekend as it's so inaccessible with that road- lots of other places you can go with half the time travelling. There's a backroad bypass around it I've used when it was really bad. Scandalous the way it's just been left to fester like this

mossieh

I commute from west to east Limerick every day and take the Bruff Line (R520) to avoid Newcastlewest and Adare. It's longer and a worse road but at least I can predict my journey times and never have to sit in tailbacks. When the Adare bypass is built I'll have a decision to make but NCW will still be a problem as will Abbeyfeale for those further west. A couple of relief roads for those towns would be money well spent, imo. Long term though, now that the N69 replacement will also be the Adare bypass I'd like to see plans underway to build a new road (2+1?) from Reens Pike (western end of the Rathkeale bypass) heading west to Barna. Upgrade Barna to Abbeyfeale and then bypass Abbefeale to the south. What are the odds of Patrick O' Donovan getting the transport portfolio at some stage, I wonder?

marno21

mossieh wrote: »

I commute from west to east Limerick every day and take the Bruff Line (R520) to avoid Newcastlewest and Adare. It's longer and a worse road but at least I can predict my journey times and never have to sit in tailbacks. When the Adare bypass is built I'll have a decision to make but NCW will still be a problem as will Abbeyfeale for those further west. A couple of relief roads for those towns would be money well spent, imo. Long term though, now that the N69 replacement will also be the Adare bypass I'd like to see plans underway to build a new road (2+1?) from Reens Pike (western end of the Rathkeale bypass) heading west to Barna. Upgrade Barna to Abbeyfeale and then bypass Abbefeale to the south. What are the odds of Patrick O' Donovan getting the transport portfolio at some stage, I wonder?

There was a plan to build a 2+2 from the end of the then proposed N21 Adare bypass to the Limerick border at Feale Bridge, where the 2006 N21 Castleisland-Abbeyfeale scheme ends. This was suspended by Leo Varadkar in 2011 and is now obsolete.e

Bypasses of Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest are a priority for TII at present, but are not active and there is presently no political interest in progressing them.

Patrick O'Donovan so far has expressed very little interest in doing anything for the roads in Co. Limerick, with much needed N20, N21 and N24 upgrades sitting on the shelf. I'm happy to be proven wrong by him but so far I have no faith that will change.

Remember his signs on the approaches to Adare last year saying he had secured funding for the Adare bypass and it would only be delivered if he was reelected. However he forgot to mention that the Adare bypass is being progressed as an EU TEN-T Core road and is independent of his false promises. He, being Junior Minister in the Department of Transport, has also given no desire to accelerate the progress of the scheme, but of course he won't be long claiming credit when its built. He could take a very big leaf out of Senator Kieran O'Donnell's book re: the M20.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

There was a plan to build a 2+2 from the end of the then proposed N21 Adare bypass to the Limerick border at Feale Bridge, where the 2006 N21 Castleisland-Abbeyfeale scheme ends. This was suspended by Leo Varadkar in 2011 and is now obsolete.e

Bypasses of Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest are a priority for TII at present, but are not active and there is presently no political interest in progressing them.

Patrick O'Donovan so far has expressed very little interest in doing anything for the roads in Co. Limerick, with much needed N20, N21 and N24 upgrades sitting on the shelf. I'm happy to be proven wrong by him but so far I have no faith that will change.

Remember his signs on the approaches to Adare last year saying he had secured funding for the Adare bypass and it would only be delivered if he was reelected. However he forgot to mention that the Adare bypass is being progressed as an EU TEN-T Core road and is independent of his false promises. He, being Junior Minister in the Department of Transport, has also given no desire to accelerate the progress of the scheme, but of course he won't be long claiming credit when its built. He could take a very big leaf out of Senator Kieran O'Donnell's book re: the M20.

When you look clinically at the three main National routes crossing Co. Limerick, they are truly dreadful. Even lacking basic town bypasses which would have made things a hell of a lot better.
Even say when yopu cross into neighbouring co Kerry, a lot more has been put in the same N21 with bypasses and new alignments.
The N21 seems to me mainly the same since the 80s/90s.

marno21

road_high wrote: »

When you look clinically at the three main National routes crossing Co. Limerick, they are truly dreadful. Even lacking basic town bypasses which would have made things a hell of a lot better.
Even say when yopu cross into neighbouring co Kerry, a lot more has been put in the same N21 with bypasses and new alignments.
The N21 seems to me mainly the same since the 80s/90s.

To me the N21 is similar to the N7/N8 in the 1990s.

Reasonably straight road with hard shoulders festooned with junctions and accesses linking small towns and villages with the odd bypass. Grand for a quiet road but not for a busy one like the N21.

Badly, badly needed upgrades. The N21 from Tralee to the border is now decent quality with high speed running and good overtaking opportunities. Funny that it stops around 400m into Co. Limerick.