N21 Thread

limklad

I wonder have this bypass road (Abbeyfeale to Adare) got the chop in the government new budget cutbacks? Last Sunday was a perfect example for a new road especially dual carriageway/overtaking lanes. A Starlet driver pick up a fine tailback heading ( I counted 30 and that as far I could see in my rear view mirror because of a truck) into NCW from the Rathkeale side which caused a traffic headaches for many road users in the Town and before that mad overtakers putting other road users at risk.

limklad

I have rumours this weekend that the Blue Route for the AbbeyFeale to Adare bypass is going to be selected. Did anyone else heard otherwise?

Mc Love

Passed through C'island the other day, looks like they are making good progress

limklad

I just found out that the Route Selection for the Abbeyfeale to Adare will be formally selected in October.

The Rumours are that the Blue Route will be selected. Did anybody else heard anything different?

spacetweek

limklad wrote: »

I wonder have this bypass road (Abbeyfeale to Adare) got the chop in the government new budget cutbacks?

I was under the impression that this was long-fingered alright.

limklad

spacetweek wrote: »

I was under the impression that this was long-fingered alright.

I have no doubt that the road build is on the long finger, but the route needs to be planned so people in the country can build new homes near their home place, otherwise the NRA will object to planning permission left right and centre and it is a very wide area the NRA are interested in. Planning of the road will remove any doubt or concerns for farmers and business and families to plan for the future. There no point of building new farm buildings or new homes, if the NRA are going to knock or divide up a good part of their land.

Abbey Ct

I think all of the constraints area study is currently frozen for planning permission - which is a huge area encompassing all potential routes. When a route is chosen in the next few weeks as the "Preferred Route", then the other areas will be unfrozen.
However, it has been publically said that there will be no construction for at least 10 years. So the unfortunate landowners on the preferred route will have their land frozen for all of that period. Then the NRA might change their minds & pick another routre as they did with the Adare bypass last year.
I too have heard it will be the Blue southern route - just like with Adare. If they do that, then in years to come we will also have to build bypasses / widened roads for the N69. Pity they wouldn't kill 2 birds with one stone & build one route in between both roads (ie N21 & N69) & save the costs of an extra road. But that would be planned & joined up thinking which of course the NRA don't do.

Tech3

Latest on the N21 Castleisland bypass here. I've been told an opening of late October. Didint have time for more updates on it but there is still a little bit of work on the tie in at the Limerick rd roundabout.

Amtmann

Just posting tech2's pictures here:

tech2 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Had a look at the bypass today and it's very close to completion on the Tralee-Limerick road section. It's nearly all lined and studded but the Killarney-Tralee rd section is a little behind that but the length is not that long.

I took two photos from the pound road. First one is looking north:



This one is looking south from the same overpass. The wire mesh for the median hasnt been done yet but the markings are in place for the steel poles. Also there seems to be a cycle/walking path on the verge too!!

Chris_5339762

Those pictures are probably quite accurate. Thats as much traffic as this will generate. Absolute disgrace that this is 2+2, for heavens sake.

summer11

Chris, Have you ever travelled this road?! 2+2 is about right - it should be all the way to Limerick and will be at some stage.

Tourism in Cork/Kerry badly needs this as 2+2 along with N22 - not to mention freight movements within these two counties.

Tech3

As I've said previously this route only stretches 3km in length for the 2+2 section and gives good overtaking opportunities before reaching the WS2/S2 parts again. Hardly a disgrace.

veryangryman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0913/rta.html

I cant help but be sad at stuff like this that happens on a road that has been planned for DC upgrade. Without the recession and such, you can make an argument that the road would have been upgraded by now and these people would still be alive.

More than any paycuts, job losses or lifestyle adjustments that they have caused, this is why bankers need to go to jail and stay there.

summer11

I agree.

The volume of traffic any morning,afternoon or evening on this National Road warrants 2+2.

This is the 2nd fatal traffic collision this Summer/Autumn at the Bearnagh Gap.

Any more arguments for 2+2 needed.........

summer11

Correction:

I agree with the first part of previous post - the second is unhelpful and unwarranted in relation to this tragedy.

Tech3

This section of N21 is the most dangerous also. Some very dangerous junctions, narrow S2 and 2 very bad bends. And what makes it worse is that it's only about 5km long and would hardly have cost much to upgrade the road years ago.

Chris_5339762

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Those pictures are probably quite accurate. Thats as much traffic as this will generate. Absolute disgrace that this is 2+2, for heavens sake.

Didnt realise that only a bit of this was 2+2. 2-3km of it is appropriate after all.

mk6705

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Those pictures are probably quite accurate. Thats as much traffic as this will generate. Absolute disgrace that this is 2+2, for heavens sake.

Where do you live? I'm taking a fairly educated guess it's not Kerry.

2+2 is more than justified. Just look at traffic through Castleisland anytime before this is opened. It's hardly a motorway anyway.

mk6705

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Didnt realise that only a bit of this was 2+2. 2-3km of it is appropriate after all.

The N21 part is 2+2, there's a spur to the N23, that's the bit that's WS2. So all the N21 bit is 2+2.

summer11

Well said Adro.

To be clear the N21 and N22 should be both 2+2 and meet in a semi orbital route of Killarney.

Adding to a completed M7,M8,M18 and M20 - Only when these types of projects are complete, and only then can we claim to have a "World Class Road System" the type of line that is often spouted by a Chairman or Minister.

There are other projects that are needing a start/completion in every area of the country - the N11/N17 are just an example of 2.

There is a case that all National Routes should be 2+2 or Divided Highways as they are called in the US (World Class Interstates/Motorways are a step up from these) Every other road should then be re-classified as a Regional Road.

Perhaps this is something that we cannot afford now, but these can be built within in 6 years and financed over the next 50 years.

Perhaps then there will less of the tragedies that happen day in day out on our National road system.

Tech3

AFAIK the N23 cross section is narrow single carriageway not WS2

summer11

tech 2 :

AFAIK??


1.6KM/1 mile - how much extra would this have cost?

In years ahead it will end up as 2+2 in plain english....

nordydan

IMO:

N21 should be 2+2 at least from the end of Castleisland Bypass to Limerick, and S2 into Tralee, especially as the N22 is planned to be rerouted to the southern part of the new Tralee Bypass

N22 should be 2+2 at least in its entirety

N23 only requires S2

Tech3

The only upgrades needed on the N21 are:

2+2 Adare to Abbeyfeale scheme
2+2 Adare bypass included in the M20 project.

summer11 wrote:

AFAIK??

AFAIK: As far as I know

summer11

Tech 2:

Thank you for clarifying AFAIK!

However, whilst I agree with your assessment on the likely M20 & N21 road plans - you are not addressing the Economic, Social and Safety benefits of a loop 2+2/Dual Carriageway/Motorway between the N20,N21,N22 & N23.

Why have 2+2 from Adare to Abbeyfeale break for 10 KMs to Castleisland then 2+2 for 3.5km and back to Single Carriageway on N21 for 1.6KMs?

These are exactly the type of road plans that are contributing to fatalities - The National Road Network should be constant - The overtaking lane improves road safety full stop!

I repeat once again - No new National Roads should be delivered as Single Carriageway projects - Has the N7 Nenagh bypass not taught us this lesson?!

Stinicker

I wonder how much extra would it have cost to build this to HQDC/Motorway spec? It seems like a waste of money to me the way they did it, the road all the way down to Kerry should be uograded to Motorway and I am a firm beleiver of every county in Ireland should be connected to the Motorway network with a 3x3 from Cork up through the spine of the country branching of for Derry and Belfast.

In the words of Charlie Haughey, if we build it, they will come, when he faced accusation of white elephants for giving his backing to Knock airport. He was a crook but he got that much right. We need to take a long term vision and I think the country should borrow heavily now and build a world class road network when construction and material costs are so low. The short term economic gain from building it would help but in the long term the benefits would be reaped many times over.

L1011

Where have they come from for Knock airport? It survives on PSOs, can't sustain trans atlantic routes despite its massive runway and IS a white elephant.

Kerry doesn't need a motorway. 2+2 is more than sufficient.

summer11

I agree with MYOB

2+2 would be sufficient for linking provincial towns/cities and the Atlantic Corridor.

Stinicker

MYOB wrote: »

Where have they come from for Knock airport? It survives on PSOs, can't sustain trans atlantic routes despite its massive runway and IS a white elephant.

Kerry doesn't need a motorway. 2+2 is more than sufficient.

Of course everything outside the M50 is a white elephant :rolleyes:, such myopic viewpoints is what has led Ireland to have such unbalanced regional development. Infrastructure is the key to bridging the gap and get balanced regional powershift.

Knock has Ryanair, Aer Lingus and BMI plus a plethora of charters, traffic on all transatlantic routes are down from Dublin and elsewhere, if Aer Lingus could they would scrap the lot of them and stick to flying into full service airports in Europe.

Tech3

summer11 wrote: »

Why have 2+2 from Adare to Abbeyfeale break for 10 KMs to Castleisland then 2+2 for 3.5km and back to Single Carriageway on N21 for 1.6KMs?

These are exactly the type of road plans that are contributing to fatalities - The National Road Network should be constant - The overtaking lane improves road safety full stop!

The reason the Castleisland-Abbeyfeale scheme was built WS2 over 2+2 is because the 2+2 was only brought in around that time! The NRA had piloted schemes for th 2+1 and 2+2 around that time. Given the 2+2 has been a success on the N4 Dromod-Rooskey bypass all new schemes will be built 2+2 unless a S2 or HQDC are required.

I repeat once again - No new National Roads should be delivered as Single Carriageway projects - Has the N7 Nenagh bypass not taught us this lesson?!

There will be. National secondary routes will be built single carriageway. N7 is a totally different story. The N21 will never reach the traffic levels the N7 has and could potentially reach. Lets remember the M7 links the republics 1st and 3rd largest cities.