Willie O'Dea is a Dangerous Man

freewheeler

Raiser wrote: »

I am utterly amazed that this has generated no indignant outcry whatsoever - The Irish Electorate are docile, vapid and have no notion of the difference between right and wrong.

- At the very least Cowen should tell him to fcuk off on overseas duty indefinitely - but then again why would he even have to tidy up a non-scandal seeing as it is that the People simply haven't the wit to care?

And its for this reason that we have the worst government in the history of the state. O'Dea is just another embarrasment to add to the ever growing list.We can only hope that some day the idiots who vote for the likes of him will some day actually READ a newspaper and see what they have inflicted on the populace.

FlutterinBantam

Raiser wrote: »

I am utterly amazed that this has generated no indignant outcry whatsoever - The Irish Electorate are docile, vapid and have no notion of the difference between right and wrong.

- At the very least Cowen should tell him to fcuk off on overseas duty indefinitely - but then again why would he even have to tidy up a non-scandal seeing as it is that the People simply haven't the wit to care?

Don't know why you are surprised about that,isn't that our modus operandi over many decades?

Haughey, FLynn, Lowry,Ferris,McDaid,Burke...I could go on.

Seems the Irish electorate have no moral concience and in fact the 'bold boy' will usually be swept in on a landslide next time out.


Oh dear, and we wonder why we are where we are.

gombeenland

i think many people here are being sidetracked by what odea said.
it doesnt matter what he said.
lets call the statements he made X.

the real problem is that

odea said X to a journalist.
odea swore in the high court that he didnt say X.
tape is uncovered proving he DID say X.

ie he misled the high court.
thats the problem in a nut shell.
why is this not headline news?

Raiser

gombeenland wrote: »

i think many people here are being sidetracked by what odea said.
it doesnt matter what he said.
lets call the statements he made X.

the real problem is that

odea said X to a journalist.
odea swore in the high court that he didnt say X.
tape is uncovered proving he DID say X.

ie he misled the high court.
thats the problem in a nut shell.
why is this not headline news?

Well said.

Even the way the newspapers reported the sequence of events was very guarded - Whatever way it was worded there was almost no indication of wrongdoing on O'Deas part.

- As to why People don't seem to care? The Irish Public must be the Worlds absolute finest showcase of ignorance, greed and apathy......

FlutterinBantam

walshb wrote: »

Hi,

Do you think that a Minister who perjures himself is something we as a nation should
tolerate?

No, when he is tried and convicted of the alleged offense I will take note.

We as a nation should equally not tolerate gunrunners and murderers either.

gombeenland

"No, when he is tried and convicted of the alleged offense I will take
note."


eh , hes a minister - he is in FF - he wont be tried.


"We as a nation should equally not tolerate gunrunners and murderers either."
correct , i agree.

do you agree that we should not tolerate people swearing on oath in the high court that they did not say X - but then later get caught out because its proved that they DID in fact say X.

please note that his "misleading" directly affected the judges decision.

FlutterinBantam

gombeenland wrote: »

"No, when he is tried and convicted of the alleged offense I will take
note."


eh , hes a minister - he is in FF - he wont be tried.


"We as a nation should equally not tolerate gunrunners and murderers either."
correct , i agree.

do you agree that we should not tolerate people swearing on oath in the high court that they did not say X - but then later get caught out because its proved that they DID in fact say X.

please note that his "misleading" directly affected the judges decision.

of course I agree!!

But then we need to carry the process out to its logical conclusion.

How many TDs left then??

gombeenland

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

of course I agree!!

But then we need to carry the process out to its logical conclusion.

How many TDs left then??

1) glad to hear it. what are you doing about it?
2) im ok with that too.
3) who cares? getting rid of the criminals in the dail is a good thing. just because these guys are ministers should not put them above the law.

Shea O'Meara

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

We as a nation should equally not tolerate gunrunners and murderers either.

Haughey bashing?:D

watchingthepols

Well at least one member of the Oireachtas is prepared to accuse Willie O'dea of perjury over his High Court evidence shame. Senator Eugene Regan, the Fine Gael Seanad Spokesperson on Justice, Equality and Law Reform is saying that Cowen should demand answers.

http://www.eugeneregan.ie/?p=286

This is the text of what Senator Regan said

"Taoiseach must get explanation from O’Dea on issue of perjury - Regan December 22, 2009 on 6:10 pm

The Minister for Defence, Willie O’Dea has serious questions to answer that go to the root of his credibility as a member of the Cabinet, following his admission of making false and defamatory statements about a public representative.


The Taoiseach should call in his Minister and get clear answers on how a member of his Cabinet could feel entitled to lie on oath in a sworn affidavit.


The Minister for Defence has been shown to have acted to a disturbingly low standard in regard to comments he made about an elected Public Representative. He even went so far as to sign a sworn statement last April where he denied that he made the comments attributed to him in a Limerick newspaper. It wasn’t until a tape of the interview emerged that he was forced to retract and apologise, it having been clearly proven that he told untruths.


It is clear that the Taoiseach should consider Ministers O’Dea’s position in the Cabinet in any upcoming reshuffle he undertakes in the New Year.


If this were to happen in any other jurisdiction Minister O’Dea would now be without a portfolio having resigned or having been sacked "
__________________

oppenheimer1

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

O'Dea is now a proven perjurer. He has shown contempt for the institutions of the state, not the only FFer to do so either. Why should we believe anything he says from now forward or trust him to do any dealings on behalf of the country. The office he holds is tainted and he must go.

Eh, no he isn't. While there is evidence of perjury he hasn't been convicted of perjury. A technicl detail, but an important one all the same. Innocent until proven guilty etc.

I wouldn't like to see O'Dea go because he is one of the more able members of the government, that said to be caught out lying to the high court isn't acceptable either.

watchingthepols

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see O'Dea go because he is one of the more able members of the government

It would not take too much to be "one of the more able members" of this government.:)

But did you hear the Willie O'Dea interview on RTE Radio when he was asked to account for the fact that the army were not used during the cold spell. Willie's reply was something along the lines of ........"amm, nobody asked us". I kid you not. Willie had his pants pulled down & was well and truely spanked by the interviewer.:)

watchingthepols

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

We as a nation should equally not tolerate gunrunners and murderers either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

FlutterinBantam

The mods here know who's trolling and who is not.

With four posts under your belt, don't you think you should leave it to them sir.

cbreeze

Raiser wrote: »

Well said.

Even the way the newspapers reported the sequence of events was very guarded - Whatever way it was worded there was almost no indication of wrongdoing on O'Deas part.

- As to why People don't seem to care? The Irish Public must be the Worlds absolute finest showcase of ignorance, greed and apathy......

Beasty wrote: »

Should be fine - the water will already be in the heating system - it just gets topped up from the normal water system when required

Agreement here. I think we natives know that the Defence job is less important than Finance, Health, Education and Arts, Culture, Gaeltacht, Islands and TG4. If we did not have defence forces who'd notice? If Willie O'Dea had brains he'd be dangerous!!

aDeener

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

+1 FFers seem to be exempt from the law. Any other (civilised) country and he'd be shown the door. However, the vast majority of Judges in this country have been politically appointed by FF. FF bigwigs are virtually untouchable by our 'law' system. Ireland is probably the most corrupt country in Europe.

oh ffs :rolleyes:

aDeener

FTA69 wrote: »

Fair play to Mossy, I know the man himself and there's no reason he should have aspersions cast on his integrity from a Fianna Fáil TD of all people. Perhaps O'Dea will learn to shut his hole in future.

ha! you say that as if sinn fein are the most politically clean party in the world! oh how i love boards

watchingthepols

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The mods here know who's trolling and who is not.

As do I Sir and I will not be feeding your trolling any further.

watchingthepols

aDeener wrote: »

ha! you say that as if sinn fein are the most politically clean party in the world! oh how i love boards

I don't really think this is an issue of how honest FF are as compared to SF or any other party for that matter. Pesonally I would not go out to bat for either of them.

IMHO the issue is simply how Willie O'Dea has treated the High Court and the implications of this for his continued position as a holder of a state seal of office.

walshb

Why has this issue with Willie been virtually unreported? I know we have little standards, but nobody, not even the opposition, has clung to this. I find it extraordinary that a Minister in office can behave like this and receive no reprimand whatsoever?:rolleyes:

walshb

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No, when he is tried and convicted of the alleged offense I will take note.

We as a nation should equally not tolerate gunrunners and murderers either.

He is not going to be tried for this. He has been found out to be a liar. This isn't due to go to any court. The evidence is there, reported and substantiated and the man is still in office? WTF!

jmayo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Eh, no he isn't. While there is evidence of perjury he hasn't been convicted of perjury. A technicl detail, but an important one all the same. Innocent until proven guilty etc.

I wouldn't like to see O'Dea go because he is one of the more able members of the government, that said to be caught out lying to the high court isn't acceptable either.

Ah the old ff line about due process and innocent until proven guilty.
No matter what stink surrounds a party memebr they are backed to the hilt until it becomes so politically expedient that they are eventually dumped them like the sacks of s** they really are.
Think liam lawlor, ray burke, bev flynn, haughey for past examples.

In other countries, bar the tin pot banana republics we seem prepared to compare ourselves to, politicans that have stench surrounding them regarding breaking laws, business impropriety, etc resign or are even fired.
Here in our major party they just continue on as per usual.

Even worse they are rewarded by their electorate and that is the real sad thing.

walshb wrote: »

He is not going to be tried for this. He has been found out to be a liar. This isn't due to go to any court. The evidence is there, reported and substantiated and the man is still in office? WTF!

Political perjuriors, political theives, corrupt politicans, corrupt planners, business white collar criminals, religious serial paedophiles and the like usually don't need to worry about courts in this fine land.

Red_Marauder

cbreeze wrote: »

If we did not have defence forces who'd notice

They were of a significant benefit during the recent snow problem and earlier during the flooding crisis where their air ambulance and manpower brought comfort to a lot of pople around the country. I think quite a lot of people would have noticed.

Lets not start grumbling that we don't have use for an army for aggressive or defensive purposes, and be glad to accept that fact.

watchingthepols

Red_Marauder wrote: »

They were of a significant benefit during the recent snow problem and earlier during the flooding crisis where their air ambulance and manpower brought comfort to a lot of pople around the country. I think quite a lot of people would have noticed.
.

I seem to recall that the army only got involved (about 100 of them) towards the end of the cold spell after Willie O'Dea got has ass spanked on RTE radio's Live at five.

http://www.politics.ie/media/121795-car-crash-radio-willie-odea-rte-radio-right-now.html

While you could make a good case for retaining the air corp and navy there is little merit in keeping the rest of the permanent defence forces going. They do not do anything that the reserves could not be trained up to do.

Anyway, this is going away from the business of Willie O'Dea and the High Court.

I'd be interested in discussing "do we need an army" further if somebody would like to start a new thread?

FlutterinBantam

Are you not able to start a new thread yourself??

watchingthepols

:-)

old boy

there was an interview with the dandruff one in the limerick leader a few weeks back, me thinks the new years eve edition, that made fair miserable reading, all about what he was going to read next, a book on economics was one, another he was told has the storey how e gilmore and p de rossa (i think) threatened the security of the state in the 70s could some one with more IT savvy than me post a link to it.

watchingthepols

old boy wrote: »

there was an interview with the dandruff one in the limerick leader a few weeks back, me thinks the new years eve edition, that made fair miserable reading, all about what he was going to read next, a book on economics was one, another he was told has the storey how e gilmore and p de rossa (i think) threatened the security of the state in the 70s could some one with more IT savvy than me post a link to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Revolution-Story-Official-Workers/dp/1844881202/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263849430&sr=1-1

The Lost Revolution: The Story of the Official IRA and the Workers' Party (Paperback)
~ Brian Hanley (Author), Scott Millar (Author)

Description
Everybody knows about the Provisional IRA, which perpetrated the lion's share of republican violence during the Troubles. But there was another IRA, the Official IRA: a republican-socialist paramilitary organization that played an underestimated part in the Troubles and was linked to a series of political parties which eventually achieved a striking influence in the south of Ireland while attempting to bring about an Irish socialist republic. In "The Lost Revolution", Brian Hanley and Scott Millar tell the full story of this movement for the first time. Hanley and Millar trace the development of republican socialism through the civil rights movement, the outbreak of the Troubles and the IRA split. They show that the Official IRA continued to operate long after its 1972 cease-fire, and document the use of armed robbery and other forms of crime to fund the movement. And they chronicle the growth - in sophistication and popularity - of the Workers' Party, which was a force to be reckoned with in the Dail during the 1980s and (as Democratic Left) early 1990s. Although ultimately unsuccessful, the Official republican movement played a decisive role in the shaping of modern Ireland. A roll-call of influential personalities in the fields of politics, trade unionism and the media - including Eamon Gilmore, Eoghan Harris, Liz McManus and Des Geraghty - passed through its ranks. The story of contemporary Ireland is inseparable from the story of the Official republican movement, a story never before told.

watchingthepols

Beats me how Willie O'Dea thinks he is going to get away with giving false evidence to the High Court. This exchange took place in the Seanad yesterday.


http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspxF=SEN20100202.xml&Page=2&Ex=198#N198


Senator Eugene Regan: I wish to raise an issue of perjury. The Statutory Declarations Act 1938 makes it an offence to lie on oath. In addition, the Prevention of Electoral Abuses Act 1923 makes it an offence to malign or defame a candidate in an election. Perjury goes to the heart of the criminal justice system, as indicated by a judge in Limerick last year when a man was sentenced to one year in prison after he had withdrawn his evidence in a criminal trial. The judge said perjury and giving false evidence went to the core of the criminal justice system and the rule of law. In another case of perjury last year the judge said it was an attack on the system of justice.

I wish to raise an issue of a Minister lying on oath. We have become used to Ministers lying, but lying on oath is a new low. The matter concerns the Minister for Defence, Deputy O’Dea, who in a High Court case

---

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is making a very serious charge.

Senator Eugene Regan: The case has concluded. On his own admission and in an apology to the court last December he admitted

---

An Cathaoirleach: Does the Senator want a debate on the matter? We are taking questions to the Leader on the Order of Business.

Senator Eugene Regan: I have a very specific question for the Leader.

An Cathaoirleach: I would like to hear it.

Senator Eugene Regan: I need to introduce the question and explain it.

An Cathaoirleach: There is no great need for a preamble to a question.

Senator Eugene Regan: The Minister categorically and emphatically denied that he had made an allegation about ownership of a brothel in Limerick by a candidate in the local elections. That is why Mr. Justice Cooke did not grant an injunction in the case - the court had been misled. When the journalist’s tape of the interview was produced, the Minister admitted he had made a false statement and apologised to the court. However, he only did so when he had been found out. I ask the Leader whether the Minister has been held to account by the leader of his party. I call on the Leader to make a statement on the matter because it is a new low and a very serious charge. In any other jurisdiction a Minister would be held to account.

An Cathaoirleach: I call Senator Corrigan.

Senator Eugene Regan: There is an issue

---

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator’s time is up and I ask him to resume his seat.

Senator Eugene Regan:

---

of the Minister’s fitness for office in such circumstances

jmayo

Is there any way a normal citizen can initiate proceedings against him ?
Can a normal citizen ask the Gardaí and DPP to investiage the matter or is it only upto the judge in the case concerned ?