Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Willie O'Dea is a Dangerous Man

Options
124»

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    An Cathaoirleach seems totally out of his depth and was very quick to retreat to the safety of "hush now" mode......

    - Hopefully this won't end here.


  • Options
    #93
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Poccington wrote: »
    Up until now he has done a reasonably good job as Minister for Defence and he's far from a dangerous man.

    Defence is generally regarded as a posting for politicians on the way up the career ladder or who are being eased out of ministerial office. It is extremely rare for a politician to occupy the post for periods consecutively and must be taken as an indicator of FF's opinion of his abilities.
    In truth there is little enough for Ministers of Defence to do.


  • Options
    #94
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    walshb wrote: »
    Why has this issue with Willie been virtually unreported? I know we have little standards, but nobody, not even the opposition, has clung to this. I find it extraordinary that a Minister in office can behave like this and receive no reprimand whatsoever?:rolleyes:

    You highlight one of the great deficiencies of the irish Parliammentary systems - there is no such thing as absolute standards, every thing is measured in terms of the potential advantages and disadvantages it offers. Whether one of the partiues was a member of Sinn Fein or not is irrelevant. The question is whether the truth was told in a submission to the High Court or not.


  • Options
    #95
    watchingthepols
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭watchingthepols


    Well at least on Journalist is taking an interest in this story & she is not afraid to use the "Perjury" word. She writes in today's Sunday Times.

    Justine McCarthy: In all honesty, O’Dea’s perjury is a sad sign of our lying times

    "Willie O’Dea is the most powerful politician in Limerick. His voluble voice at the cabinet table gives him leverage disproportionate to the pecking order of his government portfolio. He may be merely the minister for defence in a state that has never fought a war, but his bullish personality confers a degree of influence that outweighs his official position.

    In Limerick, Willie is the establishment’s top dog. What he says holds sway. He is seen to enjoy the favour of Fianna Fail’s ruling elite. When they need someone to quench the fires of controversy with a tempest of outraged rhetoric, they send for Willie. He happens to be a qualified barrister too, a profession that trades on the assumed veracity and the maximum impact of carefully chosen words. He has lectured law students in university. One Sunday newspaper has even given him a soap box.

    He may lack the magnetism of Donagh O’Malley, the flintiness of Des O’Malley, or the career achievements of Michael Noonan but, in the all too often tragic streets of Limerick, he commands respect. Last April, after Roy Collins was shot dead because one of his relatives testified at a gangster’s trial, O’Dea was one of the first to sign the book of condolences. He urged the citizens of Limerick to do likewise, in a demonstration to criminals that they would “stand behind the forces of law and order”. It was a noble call to fight arms with the might of the pen.

    What the people of Limerick did not know was that, at the very time their most senior politician was exhorting them to keep faith with the administration of justice, O’Dea was perjuring himself in the High Court. On April 29, he denied in an affidavit that he had accused Maurice Quinlivan, a Sinn Fein local-election candidate, of owning a brothel, as had been reported by the Limerick Leader. Quinlivan had applied for an injunction stopping O’Dea from repeating the claim during the election campaign. The court refused to grant the injunction.

    But O’Dea was caught red-handed: the newspaper produced a recording of the interview. In it, the minister said: “I suppose I’m going a bit too far when I say this, but I’d like to ask Mr Quinlivan is the brothel still closed?” In a written statement to the court on December 21, he conceded that he had, after all, made the remarks and that “the implications and statements were false and defamatory”. He withdrew them.

    One of the biggest reasons why Limerick’s criminal gangs continue to lord it over the city is because they have terrified potential witnesses into silence. A chilling freezeframe in this modern tale of subversion was the triumphalist exit from court of an accused Limerick criminal giving the finger to media cameras, after his trial collapsed because a witness was too frightened to give evidence.

    When O’Dea signed the book of condolences for Collins he told journalists he was aware of a number of witnesses to criminal activity who were afraid to give evidence in court. Only for the valour of individual judges, gardai, lawyers and those citizens who withstand the threat inherent in entering the witness box, the law and order beloved of the Limerick East TD would have disintegrated by now.

    Yet he behaves as if — like paying taxes — the duty to tell the truth in court is only for little people. Of course, perjury is a criminal offence no matter who you are.

    Ambivalence about truth-telling pervades our society. O’Dea’s disregard for it has been subliminally endorsed by cabinet colleagues, not one of whom — including Brian Cowen, the taoiseach, and Dermot Ahern, the minister for justice — has publicly commented on his disgrace. When Senator Eugene Regan raised the matter in the Seanad last week, the House spluttered with indignation — not at O’Dea’s lying on oath, but at Regan’s temerity for mentioning it.

    Perhaps the license to say virtually whatever they like has loosened politicians’ tongues; and lawyers’ too. There are two cathedrals of privileged expression in this country: a politician speaking in the Oireachtas or a lawyer speaking in a courtroom may not be sued for defamation. While the ordinary citizen must swear to tell the truth before testifying in court, there is no requirement for lawyers to do so, the bizzare presumption being that they automatically do so.

    The courts themselves have lapsed into complacency. When was the last time a witness in a civil law case, where the monetary and reputational stakes can be high, was charged with perjury? What fool believes that no such litigant lies on oath? Yet still we jump on our high horse whenever anyone accuses us of telling lies.

    Remember Ray Burke’s self-exculpatory speech in the Dail? Remember Liam Lawlor’s fantastical harangues in the planning tribunal? Remember Bertie Ahern’s denials that he made sterling transactions and his detour to the High Court to prevent the tribunal cross-examining him about inconsistencies in his utterances to Dail Eireann? And what about Senator Joe O’Toole’s admission that he gave “incorrect information” about the state’s €30m purchase of land from his brother-in-law for a new prison in north Dublin?

    These unpunished falsehoods have a trickle-down effect. Last spring, a truck hit the back of a car in Dublin. The trucker said it was the fault of the woman driving the car, even though his lane had merged into hers, because, he argued, he was blind-sided and it was her responsibility to ensure he did not collide with her. The woman insisted on calling the gardai but law enforcers declined to visit the scene once they ascertained nobody had been injured. The trucker said they should each pay for the damage to their respective vehicles. The woman protested.

    The woman reported the accident to her insurers who engaged a solicitor. Just before Christmas, she was informed that a “witness” had materialised who would testify (falsely) that she had swerved out from a bus lane into the path of the truck. The insurance company was sceptical about the credibility of the “witness” but thought it too risky to go to court and expect a judge to waste taxpayers’ time testing the reliability of his evidence. The upshot is that the woman is likely to lose her no-claims bonus after 30 years’ driving.

    This is the same cause-and-effect circle argued by Michael McDowell when he was minister for justice and said cocaine users were implicit in gangland murders. If the courts cannot trust a government minister to tell the truth, why on earth should they demand it from Joe Citizen?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7017730.ece


  • Options
    #96
    Tommy Bateman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tommy Bateman


    This is untrue, Willie is the man to bring FF through the tough times.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    What's untrue? The fact Willie O'Dea is a lying b*stard?


  • Options
    #98
    Tommy Bateman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tommy Bateman


    FTA69 wrote: »
    What's untrue? The fact Willie O'Dea is a lying b*stard?

    Thats just anti-FF sentiment winning out over logic. Willies the man for FF and the country. And whats good for FF is good for the country.


  • Options
    #99
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    Tommy Bateman wrote: »
    This is untrue, Willie is the man to bring FF through the tough times.
    Tommy Bateman wrote: »
    Thats just anti-FF sentiment winning out over logic. Willies the man for FF and the country. And whats good for FF is good for the country.
    Tommy Bateman wrote: »
    I'm having a problem, and it's really really getting to me. I'm too embarrased to talk to anybody about it because they'll think i'm mad. I'm afraid of ginger cats, but not other coloured cats.

    Could somebody please explain what's going on here, and what I can do about it? Thanks.

    The problem with Democracy is that everyone over 18 is entitled to vote.

    - Delighted that Willie's day of reckoning is fast approaching.


  • Options
    #100
    watchingthepols
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭watchingthepols


    Tommy Bateman wrote: »
    Thats just anti-FF sentiment winning out over logic. Willies the man for FF and the country. And whats good for FF is good for the country.

    LOL, In fact picking myself off the floor with laughter.

    Other notable Pi**s pulls from Tommy Bateman include

    "Bertie is on RTE1. What a remarkable man."

    "This study makes me proud to be Irish, but even prouder to be a FF voter"

    " Lenny knew what to do, and now the economy is picking up again. Coincidence? I think not."

    "The economy is now picking up, and FF will get the job done like they have always done. Love em or hate em, Lenny and Cowen are our best shot at a better..."

    "Sure they had to go into Iraq to get rid of the WMD's Saddam was building up. If anything they should be honoured for been servants of world stability and safety from the terrorists."

    "What's good for FF is good for Ireland, and what FF can do for Ireland is twice as much as all of the other parties put together."


    But seriously though, leaving aside Tommy Bateman's taking the mickey, Willie O'Dea is now (politically speaking) a dead man walking.


  • Options
    #101
    PomBear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    Tommy Bateman wrote: »
    Thats just anti-FF sentiment winning out over logic. Willies the man for FF and the country. And whats good for FF is good for the country.

    I'm actually suprised heres people like you out there still! Jim Corr has more integrity than an FF supporter imo


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    "in the all too often tragic streets of Limerick"

    That's Justine McCarthy's credibility and criticisms of hyperbole out the window.
    Ambivalence about truth-telling pervades our society.

    Absolutely, Justine. And you need to look no further than your own article.

    Yes, once is "too often", but would she have bull****ted about "the all too often tragic streets of Dublin ?

    PMSL if this is what passes for journalism in this country. Feck the facts and make it look profound.


  • Options
    #103
    watchingthepols
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭watchingthepols


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    PMSL if this is what passes for journalism in this country. Feck the facts and make it look profound.

    We have a great tendency here in Limerick to "shoot the messenger"

    Speaking of facts, have you any comment on the fact that Willie O'Dea told whoppers to the High Court and expects to get away with it.


  • Options
    #104
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    watchingthepols wrote: »
    We have a great tendency here in Limerick to "shoot the messenger"

    I don't - as long as they deal in facts and not OTT crap. The words "all too often tragic" are emotive and inaccurate bull****. And that is a fact.
    watchingthepols wrote: »
    Speaking of facts, have you any comment on the fact that Willie O'Dea told whoppers to the High Court and expects to get away with it.

    No comment really. Disgusted, but unsurprised.

    He's a member of FF......it's to be expected.


  • Options
    #105
    ajdb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭ajdb


    Tommy Bateman wrote: »
    Thats just anti-FF sentiment winning out over logic. Willies the man for FF and the country. And whats good for FF is good for the country.

    I listened to the Newstalk interview on the Willie O'Dea issue. Willie lied in court - that is a fact. He (Willie) only 'put his hands up' when a recording of what he said was discovered.

    He (Willie) is without doubt a liar and is not fit for office. Your comments about FF and the country are exactly the words that Bertie would use.... you and your ilk are the reason the country is now in the state it's in.


  • Options
    #106
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Personally speaking i think the man has done alot for Limerick and for the communities there. As a Limerick man myself i have witnessed him attending most of the Funerals in Limerick, hes not afraid to get among the people and help out either!

    Sure he may have said something wrong but i dont think its enough for him to be ousted from his position and id be pretty sure that the voters of Limerick will agree, i have lived in other counties and havent seen the local TD out and about as much as him.

    Id vote him in again


  • Options
    #107
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Personally speaking i think the man has done alot for Limerick and for the communities there. As a Limerick man myself i have witnessed him attending most of the Funerals in Limerick, hes not afraid to get among the people and help out either!

    Sure he may have said something wrong but i dont think its enough for him to be ousted from his position and id be pretty sure that the voters of Limerick will agree, i have lived in other counties and havent seen the local TD out and about as much as him.

    Id vote him in again

    Vote chasing at funerals is hardily a commendation !


  • Options
    #108
    Tefral
    Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    anymore wrote: »
    Vote chasing at funerals is hardily a commendation !

    He could be like the rest of them and not bother doing anything and show up at your door come election time looking for a vote. At least he bothers to get off his arse, which quite frankly cant be said for alot of other TD's


  • Options
    #109
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    He is a liar, but nothing will happen to this peice of crap FF TD. They have circled the wagons.
    There will be a vote of no confidence today or tomorrow on FF time and the greeds will go with their handlers.

    The motion could be taken this week “today or tomorrow”, Mr Cowen said although Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said “I’d be happy to leave it until next week”.

    Mr Cowen said “we can take it this afternoon”.

    He was responding to Opposition leaders who had questioned why Ceann Comhairle Seamus Kirk had made unsolicited contact with them yesterday and indicated that they should not raise any issues about Mr O’Dea, which could breach standing orders.

    Even more disturbing, how can they get away with this?????????


  • Options
    #110
    paddyland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    I would actually be offended to see him at a funeral, unless it was someone he was personally acquainted with. It offends respect for the dead to see a funeral as nothing more than a vote gathering exercise. He might as well turn up dressed in Bertie's lemon blazer waving a FF placard, it amounts to the same thing.


  • Options
    #111
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    cronin_j wrote: »
    He could be like the rest of them and not bother doing anything and show up at your door come election time looking for a vote. At least he bothers to get off his arse, which quite frankly cant be said for alot of other TD's
    Given the amount of time he spends on the ground in Limerick, how come he didnt do something about the growth of the murderous drug gangs in Limerick ?
    An inconvenient truth ?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Personally speaking i think the man has done alot for Limerick and for the communities there. As a Limerick man myself i have witnessed him attending most of the Funerals in Limerick, hes not afraid to get among the people and help out either!

    Sure he may have said something wrong but i dont think its enough for him to be ousted from his position and id be pretty sure that the voters of Limerick will agree, i have lived in other counties and havent seen the local TD out and about as much as him.

    Id vote him in again

    All thats wrong with this country can be found above.


  • Options
    #113
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,110 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cronin_j wrote: »

    Sure he may have said something wrong?

    Id vote him in again

    Well, if that's the standard that is applied to him, then scrap the law regarding telling lies and swearing to affidavits only to then admit (after you're found out) that the sworn affidavit was inaccurate. Wouldn't society be so better off with this standard.


  • Options
    #114
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Personally speaking i think the man has done alot for Limerick and for the communities there. As a Limerick man myself i have witnessed him attending most of the Funerals in Limerick, hes not afraid to get among the people and help out either!

    Sure he may have said something wrong but i dont think its enough for him to be ousted from his position and id be pretty sure that the voters of Limerick will agree, i have lived in other counties and havent seen the local TD out and about as much as him.

    Id vote him in again

    So you have no problem with a minister of the state knowingly slandering an opposite number and lying to the courts because he goes to lots of funerals?

    God help us if this is how people feel. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Lowery still gets elected and how TD's getting caught drink driving get to keep their jobs.

    Truly shocking.


  • Options
    #115
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Personally speaking i think the man has done alot for Limerick and for the communities there. As a Limerick man myself i have witnessed him attending most of the Funerals in Limerick, hes not afraid to get among the people and help out either!

    Sure he may have said something wrong but i dont think its enough for him to be ousted from his position and id be pretty sure that the voters of Limerick will agree, i have lived in other counties and havent seen the local TD out and about as much as him.

    Id vote him in again

    cronin j,

    If you did what's he done, you'd be facing criminal sanction. So you think it's ok that you are held to a higher standard of behaviour than he is?


  • Options
    #116
    Drummerboy2
    Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭Drummerboy2


    O'Dea reminds my of Tull MacAdoo. MacAdoo was a fictious character invented by the late John B Keane. He was a Kerry TD and Minister of State who would do or say anything to get elected or damage the prospects of his oppenents. O'Dea fits the bill ideally.


  • Options
    #117
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Mena wrote: »
    You must be mistaken, that only happens in "other" countries...
    Ireland has become that "other" country.
    Was Michael Lowry the last minister to resign under similar/comparable circumstances? That's 15 years ago!


  • Options
    #118
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Personally speaking i think the man has done alot for Limerick and for the communities there. As a Limerick man myself i have witnessed him attending most of the Funerals in Limerick, hes not afraid to get among the people and help out either!

    Pay me a grand a day and I'll attend as many funerals as you want!

    What does attending funerals have to do with legislating for the country or being Minister for Defence ?
    cronin_j wrote: »
    Sure he may have said something wrong but i dont think its enough for him to be ousted from his position and id be pretty sure that the voters of Limerick will agree, i have lived in other counties and havent seen the local TD out and about as much as him.

    Understatement of the century.

    The issue isn't what he said, or what was wrong about it.

    The issue is that he lied to a court about it.

    But then, it's what we expect from FF members.......I mean, at least 4 of Ahern's accounts to the tribunals were false.

    Seems there's a lot of amnesia within FF ranks.....ever since Lenihan had to retract "on mature recollection".


Advertisement