It's a new dawn ......... it's a new day.

kennyb3

Best of luck on monday speedy

Speedy44

seanynova wrote: »

all the best now speedy, catch ya in dub, take it handy...

You too seaney, can't wait for it at this stage.

Speedy44

kennyb3 wrote: »

Best of luck on monday speedy

cheers Kenny, you too, don't forget to have fun now

Speedy44

misty floyd wrote: »

Best of luck Speedy. See you at the start. Have a great run.

cheers Misty, best of luck, its going to be fun

smmoore79

Best of luck speedy, hopefully I'll see ya somewhere on the course! 2 59 59.. In the bag yeah:rolleyes:

donothoponpop

See you out there Speedy, best of luck!

Speedy44

donothoponpop wrote: »

See you out there Speedy, best of luck!

cheers buddy, best of luck, only 24hrs now. Thankfully cause I can't handle much more of this tapering madness. I'm now getting headaches, something I never do :eek:

Had to listen to the wife yesterday saying "so your just going to sit around ALL day" :rolleyes:

seanynova

whats the story speedy, how did you get on today?
i though i met you on route, but it might not have been.....although i hope it was you cos i started off by saying, "your not speedy by any chance?" as the athenry runner ran past me, actually didnt catch all of his answer but he said he was going for sub3....might have been you though, somewhere in pheonix park...

Speedy44

Where to start ?

Well, prep was near perfect. Stayed with a buddy so as well as heaps of pasta, I had a good nights sleep, and we even watched the 'marathon man' (turns out, it wasn't safe ).

Got right up to near the front, probably mingling with a few fellow boardies but since I was wearing a white baseball cap, I wasn't recognised!

From the off I felt ok, glanced at the garmin to see 6:14 pace, looked behind me for the red balloons and slowed to let them catch up. We went through the 1st ml fairly quick, think it could actually have been 6:14 (left bag with garmin in Dublin, buddy bringing them back today). Anyway, stuck with the 1st pacer like glue. We were up on 3hrs all the way, can't recall how much, think 5mls was maybe 27secs, 10mls - 1min, but we reached halfway in 1:28:34.

During all this time I felt reasonably comfortable, at times I was thinking that it is a tad fast, or should I say it felt a tad fast, but that was mostly on the downhills, so I was rationalising this by recalling what was mentioned before how this is a good place to make up some time.
At the hill around 9mls, I made sure to go up it relaxed, last year I pushed up it and paid for it. Got over it no bother and still felt fine.

Made sure this year that I took on enough water, stratergy was too grab a bottle at each station and hang onto it until almost the next station and have it consumed by then. Took my first gel between 5-6mls, wasn't able to just rip it off the pin so had to unpin it, but that was easy enough to do. Screwed up the water station at 12mls, got pushed out of it, so had to borrow a few slurps to wash down the gel.

Coming up towards halfway I started to feel uncomfortable. I kep telling myself to relax that it was only temporary and that I could run through it.
Legs started to feel more & more sore as I forced myself to hang on to the pacer. Decided at 14mls to back off and see if I could recover.
Next couple of miles were 7:14 & 7:32 I think, so at 16mls I was still about 30secs up.

Unfortunately, I hadn't recovered, instead I got worse. Right calf started to cramp real bad, to the point that my leg buckled under me a couple of times. Then my left knee buckled under me as well. Eventually at 17mls I stopped and had to stretch it and walk for a bit. Started off at a slow jog then. Took another gel at 18mls. Got a volenteer to hold my bottle (thank you whoever you are) while I tried to unpin the gel. They offered to help me do this as it was proving a bit difficult. I refused because I had decided that I am going to finish this on my own steam one way or another.

Throughout all this, cardio wise, I felt fine. I could have had a nice chat with someone if they weren't all streaming by me in droves.
The rest of the race was a combination of walking/jogging/hobbling to the finish.

Don't know what the hell went wrong. Last year I could pinpoint a few things. This year, training was good if not perfect, but water/gel intake was spot on I think. Totally pissed off, well, not as bad now as I was yesterday. I am adament that I WILL BREAK 3 HOURS.

Was wondering this morning if its a case that I have more fast twitch versus slow twitch fibres? All the same though, I shouldn't be breaking down like that.

The only thing I can think of is salt, or lack of salt. I sweat an awful lot. I know tno mentioned that he had taken some salt tablets in Cork and they worked well. I actually went looking for them in Evergreen last week but they looked at me like I had 2 heads.

I am now going to target a Spring Marathon to get this monkey off my back. Going to follow P&D's 18 wk 70-85mls/wk programme. Am a firm believer in high mileage and have been building it up gradually over the last couple of years so think I can handle it ok.

Here's a list of marathons I checked out this morning:

March 19th Steinfurt Good course, difficult to get to
March 20th Rome
March 27th Treviso Fast course, quality field, could be hot, or wet
April 3rd Cheverny Good course,
April 10th Bonn Fast course, well organised
April 10th Paris Fast course, well organised
April 10th Rotterdam Very fast course, well organised
April 17th Zurich Good course, water in bottles
Anybody ran any of these?
Note :-
Congrats to Seaney, Misty and the rest of the lads that got their goals. Commiserations to smmoore and anyone else who didn't quiet get there. Your day will come, as will mine, and it will taste all the sweeter

misty floyd

damn it, I'm sorry to hear you had a bad day at the office Speedy. You are right that will make it way sweeter.

I've done Rotterdam and its an excellent race. Flat as a pancake, great support, water in drinkable cups, good time of year, well organised.

Thanks for the congrats there. I just wish we all got it cause I know its well deserved.

Speedy44

misty floyd wrote: »

damn it, I'm sorry to hear you had a bad day at the office Speedy. You are right that will make it way sweeter.

I've done Rotterdam and its an excellent race. Flat as a pancake, great support, water in drinkable cups, good time of year, well organised.

Thanks for the congrats there. I just wish we all got it cause I know its well deserved.

cheers Misty, probably leaning towards Rotterdam alright at this stage.

smmoore79

Sorry to hear ya didnt get to sub 3 Speedy. I reckon the sun deffo played a part. I started to suffer shortly after the first hill after Chapilizod. That coincides with the sun coming up. I tried in vain to hide in the shade on the South circular. Was wrecked come dolphins barn and then the injuries i had started to hurt bad. I reckon if it was cold that day and no sun, you would have gone a lot stronger and been in and around the 3 mark.

Id be on for doin a March marathon too. Somewhere that guarantees to cold day, maybe the Siberian marathon:rolleyes:

seanynova

tough break speedy, its a weird one cos in training you were flying like!

id say recover from this and look forward to the next marathon, rotterdam all the way! fastest time this year was in rotterdam like....be a savage marathon.

would you consider daniels plan? look into it, ive come on leaps and bounds folowing that plan....can be big mileage but low stress like. only 2 quality sessions a week, very do-able.

littlebug

Speedy44 wrote: »

Don't know what the hell went wrong. Last year I could pinpoint a few things. This year, training was good if not perfect, but water/gel intake was spot on I think.

You've forgotten that you were sick and on antibiotics the week before. That's bound to have knocked some of the wind out of your sails!
You'll do it next time (but get a gel belt:pac:)

tisnotover

sorry to read that it didn't work out speedy, you were flying till half way, I've no doubt, once you've settled on a target race that you'll nail it next time, all the best with the recovery!

Speedy44

smmoore79 wrote: »

Sorry to hear ya didnt get to sub 3 Speedy. I reckon the sun deffo played a part. I started to suffer shortly after the first hill after Chapilizod. That coincides with the sun coming up. I tried in vain to hide in the shade on the South circular. Was wrecked come dolphins barn and then the injuries i had started to hurt bad. I reckon if it was cold that day and no sun, you would have gone a lot stronger and been in and around the 3 mark.

Id be on for doin a March marathon too. Somewhere that guarantees to cold day, maybe the Siberian marathon:rolleyes:

cheers, smmoore, would love to blame the sun, but don't really think that played a part for me

Speedy44

tisnotover wrote: »

sorry to read that it didn't work out speedy, you were flying till half way, I've no doubt, once you've settled on a target race that you'll nail it next time, all the best with the recovery!

tx tno, what doesn't kill you and all that :rolleyes:

Speedy44

seanynova wrote: »

tough break speedy, its a weird one cos in training you were flying like!

id say recover from this and look forward to the next marathon, rotterdam all the way! fastest time this year was in rotterdam like....be a savage marathon.

would you consider daniels plan? look into it, ive come on leaps and bounds folowing that plan....can be big mileage but low stress like. only 2 quality sessions a week, very do-able.

yea, what makes it all the more frustrating is the fact that I felt I was going well in training. Have already started a programme for Rotterdam, it starts Dec. 6th

Will check out Daniels alright. A buddy of mine who did 2:50 yesterday is doing Connemara so I'll have at least one person to train with, think I may actually be able to get another 2:55 lad on board as well.

Speedy44

Anyone recommend any good 10ml or 1/2m races in the build up to Rotterdam in April?
I will probably do the Craughwell 10 miler, I'm assuming its going to be in March again, the date hasn't been set yet though, I think?
Can't seem to find a 1/2 anywhere though?

Don't plan on racing too much. Will do the Fields 10K on Dec 26th, maybe another short one in Feb, but as well as the 10 & 1/2, that will be it.

Krusty_Clown

There will be a reckoning Speedy44. With a new attempt you're becoming more and more prepared, knocking out great PBs all over the shop, so it'll feel like a doddle the next time.

seanynova

dungarvan in early feb-10miler....if i were you after a bit of a break and maybe a 10k early in the programme i wouldnt race that much after that, 1 half OR 10m race.....you will get in more LSRs in with less races and be fresher etc for the quality sessions.

each to thier own but for marathon training, for me, races didnt work.

Speedy44

1 - 6:35
2 - 6:32
3 - 6:47
4 - 6:38
5 - 6:41 _ 33:13
6 - 6:51
7 - 6:38
8 - 6:33
9 - 6:48
10 - 6:48 _ 33:38/66:51
11 - 6:37
12 - 6:49
13 - 6:47
14 - 6:49
15 - 7:06 _ 34:08/1:40:59
16 - 7:33
17 - 7:39
18 - 9:23
19 - 9:17
20 - 8:46 _ 42:38/2:23:37
21 - 9:37
22 - 9:37
23 - 9:40
24 - 11:37
25 - 9:43 _ 50:14/3:13:51
26 - 9:43
.2 - 1:59

Now the doubts are setting in. Did I try hard enough, could I have pushed myself harder, what if I didn't walk at 17mls? At least I was still going ok until then, I still had ideas of a 3:05-10 finish.

Tbh though, as far as I remember at that point the right calf was so bad it was causing my leg to buckle under me, and also my right knee gave out a bit too. I remember I had to go to a wall to try to stretch it out.

Just have to remind myself that I did in fact leave it all out there and that I'll get there next time.

misty floyd

Those first two miles are a bit quick Speedy. You either blow up or you don't. You blew up and at that point there was no way you can try any harder. Getting home was a serious achievement at that stage.

Really wish you had a better time of it on Monday.

Speedy44

misty floyd wrote: »

Those first two miles are a bit quick Speedy. You either blow up or you don't. You blew up and at that point there was no way you can try any harder. Getting home was a serious achievement at that stage.

Really wish you had a better time of it on Monday.

cheers Misty. I made up my mind to go with the pacers from the start, and although I thought that they did go out a tad fast, I don't think it was so fast that I should have blown up like I did.
What did you go through the first few mls in?

misty floyd

1 00:06:56
2 00:06:42
3 00:06:46
4 00:06:38
5 00:06:40

Just a thought and I'm no expert but do you think you were running hard in training a bit too much? I can't say I read every one of your posts so what do I know? After I blew up at last years DCM, I put it down to running hard too often. I didn't really run easy. I didn't train the body to utilise fat when running and I pretty much thought my body how to burn glycogen so that when I got to 18 I was running on empty. That was just me though. Ever since I changed things, I haven't blown up in either of the last two marathons.

donothoponpop

We had very similar experiences from looking at your splits speedy. It's a horrible feeling running those long final miles with no energy, and all the time getting passed by thousands. Better luck next time around.

kennyb3

misty floyd wrote: »

Those first two miles are a bit quick Speedy.

Got to agree 5 of the first 8 miles are sub 6.40, to me you are lighting that glycogen burner.

Speedy44

kennyb3 wrote: »

Got to agree 5 of the first 8 miles are sub 6.40, to me you are lighting that glycogen burner.

hmmm, well I was following the pacer, don't think I'll go there !

Killerz

Hard luck on the target Speedy44 - on the positive side, hopefully you'll be able to use the experience to build back up again and achieve your goal.

Speedy44

donothoponpop wrote: »

We had very similar experiences from looking at your splits speedy. It's a horrible feeling running those long final miles with no energy, and all the time getting passed by thousands. Better luck next time around.

you too buddy. Was reading tergats log about taking days off and the like and think that maybe that had something to do with it as well. Also, a buddy of mine mentioned that maybe I took too much water, last year I didn't take enough, so wouldn't that be just typical !