Decade Of Fianna Fail Failures (a few years of the Greens too!) - LONG ARTICLE

Biggins

Before this decade is over, for those politically motivated, I though it would be nice to summarise just some of what could be a last time (apparently a percentage of the population couldn't be arsed doing anything in protest) to highlight what our Fianna Fail comrades have been up to and still are.

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[font=&quot]A Decade Of Fianna Fail Failures (and a few years of the Greens too!)[/font]

[font=&quot]Ferns/Murphy Reports[/font][font=&quot]: [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to implement the reforms incorporated. [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to go after the many of those directly responsible. The question needs to be asked – WHY?[/font]
- [font=&quot] Failure (deliberately?) to go after those that knew of the crimes being committed and their cover-up. The 720-page report said that it has "no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up" from January 1975 to May 2004. As charted by the Murphy commission, the complaints of parents and their children were ignored and other families placed in immediate danger as prelates from John Charles McQuaid onwards suppressed scandals and took refuge in canon law to protect offenders at the expense of innocent children. The vast majority of uninvolved priests turned a blind eye[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold fully accountable the institutions financially for their crimes – instead the state pays up! The religious organisations are allowed only to donate a minority percentage![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to investigate the Gardi lack of response and STILL unwilling to do so and hold those responsible, accountable. "Twenty detectives have been assigned to the so-called 'God Squad' since 2002. But despite evidence that priests were transferred to other parishes, where they continued to abuse, and despite public admissions by senior figures that not all relevant information was passed to the civil authorities, no charges will NOT be laid against senior members of the church."[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to separate Church from state schools. The current Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe has said it was not within his remit to decide if religious organisations should be distanced from schools. Fcuk me! - If the minister for education can't control over what governs his schools - WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING IN HIS OVER PAID POSITION? If he is such an incompetent fool not able to control his own education department - why the hell is the state still paying to have his sorry useless ass in the top seat?[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure and CURRENTLY stalling any further investigations outside of Dublin, into other many cases of religious abuses. Fianna Fail are hoping the public interest will die and they can quietly shelve such investigation.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure of Fianna Fail and its head, Brian Cowen to visibly on our TV screens, radio, in the Dail to stand up, come out and take on the Catholic church and its Bishops over the past abuses and the possible still current ones which they still have not given full disclosure about.[/font]

[font=&quot]Banking sector: [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to control the banking regulations and regulators.[/font]
[font=&quot]- [/font]Failure to give the banking regulators the necessary powers to do their job. Why? Is this because some of the banks were giving paperless loans (loans?) to Fianna Fail members and friends including Charlie McCrevey and Celia Ahern? Also Fianna Fail senator Francie O'Brien received more than €7m from the building society, while former Fianna Fail senator Don Lydon was granted a €3m loan. Sean McCarthy, a Fianna Fail councillor, had also received more than €300,000 with minimum paperwork.
- [font=&quot]Failure and still unwilling to hold an enquiry in to the goings on of the Irish major banks. Mr Cowen is still unwilling and is stalling, putting any decision on the long finger, despite calls from retiring Financial Services Ombudsman Joe Meade and Central Bank governor Patrick Honohan. [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold Michael Fingleton of Irish Nationwide accountable (looking after friends?). Instead he got a nice handsome payoff for the rest of his life.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failing STILL to hold Michael Fingleton accountable for a controversial €1m bonus, despite promising to do so eight months ago.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle and investigate the bank regulator Patrick Neary, who was found not to have been doing his job for a decade, while Sean FitzPatrick hid scores of millions a year from Anglo Irish Bank. He was allowed to take early retirement, with a tax-free golden handshake worth about €400,000 and a pension of €140,000!!![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain and justify the huge losses of NAMA which is coming, that A LOT of non-government international qualified recognised businessmen and accountants has stated, will happen. [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain just why the same bankers that are still personally being rewarded – are some of the same ones that created the mess and why in gods name do they still hold banking positions if they are so stupid in the first place![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why the Irish banks are still screwing the public on their mortgages Thursday 3rd September, the ECB (European Central Bank) announced that it was freezing it’s interest rates for a whole year across Europe at just 1%. This means that mortgage holders should expect to hold onto their record low interest payments. However Irish individual banks are not treating their home customers in the same fashion, their rates are being increased, the frozen rates is not being passed on to them. Customers are advised by the ECB to move their mortgage elsewhere if possible or at least start asking questions at their bank and Irish politicians! The ECB is freezing its rates till September 2010[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain[/font] why those within the new NAMA body, people have been silenced by state secrecy and censorship orders laid down. See the following article: http://i29.tinypic.com/23j5nvt.jpg and http://i25.tinypic.com/25iluld.jpg . Between that and the NAMA mess (and disaster to come) where they didn't allow for those already in financial trouble - See: http://i27.tinypic.com/14uchhu.jpg

[font=&quot]Money Matters[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold Bertie Ahern accountable for the huge tax he owes to the state. He is STILL “in negotiation” with the revenue commissioners after four years of stalling and hoping the matter will quietly die away out of the public eye. He still owes hundreds of thousands despite still receiving a current state Taoiseach’s pension, is still allowed to hold a TD position and still gain a full elected TD employed wage with huge state perks including, state allowances, state transport, etc... On top of this he works for a media newspaper, hold directorships on a number of companies which includes HUGE wage payments for such positions.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why Ireland has the most expensive electricity in Europe.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain the M50 orbital road around Dublin, which crosses over the Liffey valley. The State decided to build the motorway on either side of the valley, but handed the construction of the connecting bridge, with toll rights, to a private company, the National Toll Roads. In addition to enabling NTR to make hundreds of millions from an entirely captive driving community, the actual process of collecting tolls was so inefficient that it caused huge traffic jams.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to further investigate Mr Ahern and his many questionable accounting practises, monetary gains and their even more questionable sources.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to investigate Rody Molloy in FAS who, after massive abuse of his position, was also allowed to take early retirement, with a golden handshake, plus full pension.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold an investigation into the retired directors general from the civil service whose pensions are now worth more than their salaries when they were working, but were not subject to any of the income reductions being imposed on junior civil servants, whose incomes are down by some 15pc in a year and who are now spiralling towards ruin.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold RTE accountable for the HUGE wages they are paying their big so called stars and directors. Failure to investigate how they can set themselves up as “limited companies” (!!!) and use this status to avoid paying tax at the proper state rates like the rest of us mere Irish mortals! Failure to tackle this form of tax evasion – bordering on tax fraud and why STILL no changes to the current tax laws are not being implemented![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to combat the cross border shopping fiasco and the underlying reasons for it and failure to take appropriate steps to incentivise shoppers to stay this side of the border[/font]

[font=&quot]Dail Matters[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure or unwillingness to talk about the 600,000 people that has moved to Ireland in 15 years, but has never once discussed immigration and its effect on the country and the ongoing situation![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to regain back ANY of the money squandered by John O'Donoghue and how he still holds his elected seat![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to currently tackle the current unwilling TD who outright refuse to use a modern day function of clocking-in so that better attendance records can be kept in line with fire regulations to begin with! I wonder why they don’t want on better record just how long each one actually stays in the Dail to do their elected job there! I wonder why...himmmmm!!! [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure and unwillingness to tackle Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea on the lying public statements he made in an interview with a journalist from the Limerick Chronicle on March 10th, 2009.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain how in gods name is independent TDs getting HUGE wages and perks. For example Jackie Healy Rea who for his Fianna Fail loyalty, is handsomely rewarded for such loyalty in wages and expenses - last year €89,000 in expenses alone on top of his triple Dail wages (Basic Salary: €106,581 + Independent Allowance: €41,152 + Committee Chair: €10,241) and other perks which according to accounts last made public totaled €289,769! plus expenses averaging yearly from €68,000 to €89,000. See for example: http://i32.tinypic.com/256wso2.jpg [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain lack of department cuts but in fact can help themselves to a wine cellar at the department of Foreign Affairs... http://i29.tinypic.com/2u4szzc.jpg[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain (I wonder why!) why so many sitting TD's are earning not only their TD Salary but also a ministerial pension as well as full wages for teaching positions that are currently “on hold” for them- some as long as 15 years “on hold”. Meanwhile Ahern again, being an example with his ex-taoiseach and ex-minister pensions and perks (his attendance record since stepping down is one of the lowest in the Dail). What has happened to getting your pension when you retire?[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why Mr Tom Higgins, a highly respected chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission's audit committee had to dramatically quit after repeated lack of action and ignorance by TDs to see through reform on their expenses and wages. He was left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves. Mr O'Higgins, a former senior partner at accountants PriceWaterhouse Coopers with absolute strong international credentials, had favoured the introduction of vouched expenses for TDs and senators. He also believes there should be an annual cap on the amount of expenses any TD or senator can pocket under particular categories. Irelands TDs however in a blatant show of hatred for his reforms have been and STILLL ARE ignoring him, the department under him and under its current head and the blanking proposals they have put forth for years.[/font]

[font=&quot]State issues:[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle the unions and their stranglehold over the TDs, allowing them to get whatever the hell they want in the long run.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle serious crime. Failure to stop the current prison system from turning into near unofficial holiday camps for some criminals. Flatscreen tv’s, weight gyms, games rooms, phones, drugs available at will, etc...[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to re-change the current process related to freedom of information. For example, before the fiasco started about the many state perks abused by many of our politicians, any person could gain information on their TD with a small nominal charge and a bulk of paper in response. NOW, if you apply for information the price for any single document starts at the mid €550 range and you get if you’re lucky, three pages of summarised words with the bulk of the actual detail left out! They are making it harder to gain information on your local and state representives – and just exactly what they are getting up to in our name.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle social welfare fraud, internal and across order areas. Failure to tackle the PPS fraud that is robbing the state of millions per year, Failure totally of any system to recuperate the money stolen by fraud claims, from those responsible.[/font]

[font=&quot]...Then there is the just plain stupid![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why it took 15 YEARS!!! for the Government to announce - again - after 15 straight winters and half the country vanishing under a midwinter flood - that it is only now inviting tenders for a feasibility study into the merits of a national flood warning system![/font]
- [font=&quot]Why the cabinet spin kings and PR people for the government got/is getting a 100% payrise! See: http://tinypic.com/r/30mlou9/6[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why they allowed Dublin council to rule that all place names in the capital must now be spelt in Irish only, with Irish spelling, in a city in which almost no one regularly converses in the language. Moreover, why Irish still is a compulsory and universal subject at school, rather like English is in Germany, but almost no one speaks the language across the entire country! [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to justify why when thief Haughey died, having stolen from the state for decades left, right and centre, was still given a state funeral – jeasus, some muppets even have erected a statue![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why for a country that outside of America, produces a hell of the world manufactured software, has yet to implement ANY proper working broadband system throughout the country from east to west![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain in ANY way shape or form to the blind, why Fianna Fail is still looking after the banks and their directors with payoffs – while the blind in this country is having their blind allowances cut and their support services![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to justify when we are in dire straits, why we are still going to spend part (€10 MILLION) of €4.5 billion on a Dublin cycle track! Announced (7th/02/09) by Mr Noel Demsey, word is that it’s still going ahead! See: http://tinypic.com/r/24q0euh/6[/font]

The Health service

Its just too friggin' huge to start listing the problems there right now and about how its a total failure by those running it!

Just don't forget to vote Fianna Fail at the next election! :rolleyes:

[font=&quot]Just some of the sources[/font][font=&quot]:[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1219/1224260976585.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mccreevy-was-given-euro16m-loan-by-fingleton-1984611.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Report[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.paddydoyle.com/murphy-report-background-and-composition[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-try-explaining-aspects-of-irish-life-to-a-german-when-youre-done-try-explaining-them-to-me-1976481.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1219/1224260976590.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1222/1224261109197.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.unitedpeople.ie/[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/my-faith-helped-to-save-church-abuse-deal-says-woods-495734.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0525/1224247322672.html[/font]

TheZohanS

Moved to Politics.

Scofflaw

I detest being put in a position where I'm seen to defend Fianna Fáil, but I do hope the rest of your statements are more accurate than this one:

-Failure to justify when we are in dire straits, why we are still going to spend €4.5 billion on a Dublin cycle track! Announced (7th/02/09) by Mr Noel Demsey, word is that it’s still going ahead! See: http://tinypic.com/r/24q0euh/6

That isn't €4.5bn "on a Dublin cycle track" - it's €4.5bn for a decade-long transport strategy:

The Smarter Travel plan aims to move 500,000 people from the car to what the plans terms 'more sustainable forms of transport'.
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It also aims to slash CO2 emissions by at least 4m tonnes.

A number of ambitious aims are outlined in the document including the target of having 150,000 people travel to work by bicycle.

It also wants electric vehicles to account for 10% of all vehicles.

An all island car sharing website is also planned with regional e-working centres developed to help cut commuting times.

More park and ride facilities on the outskirts of major cities are also planned.

The cost of implementing the new transport plan is €4.5bn.

Seriously, the incompetence and recklessness displayed by the government over the last dozen years (and particularly from 1997-2007) is staggering enough without gilding the lily.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Biggins

Scofflaw wrote: »

I detest being put in a position where I'm seen to defend Fianna Fáil, but I do hope the rest of your statements are more accurate than this one:
That isn't €4.5bn "on a Dublin cycle track" - it's €4.5bn for a decade-long transport strategy:

Seriously, the incompetence and recklessness displayed by the government over the last dozen years (and particularly from 1997-2007) is staggering enough without gilding the lily.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Totally correct and partly an error by me unquestionably (edited above to reflect this). I only question the funds (10 million) to that section of it.
The rest of the facts are on public record, even as fresh as last night, which suggest those interested see the web version of "Primetime Investigates..." on RTE's live site. Click HERE

Absolutely shocking viewing and WITHOUT question, there is some SERIOUS questions as to money that single FF members gained from banks and how those banks behaved and still are behaving with/to the public.

...and FF is doing nothing. SILENCE - why? Just one simple example AND POSSIBLE ANSWER! - see: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mccreevy-was-given-euro16m-loan-by-fingleton-1984611.html

Eutow

Biggins wrote: »

-Failure to re-change the current process related to freedom of information. For example, before the fiasco started about the many state perks abused by many of our politicians, any person could gain information on their TD with a small nominal charge and a bulk of paper in response. NOW, if you apply for information the price for any single document starts at the mid €550 range and you get if you’re lucky, three pages of summarised words with the bulk of the actual detail left out! They are making it harder to gain information on your local and state representives – and just exactly what they are getting up to in our name.


Failure to explain why for a country that outside of America, produces a hell of the world manufactured software, has yet to implement ANY proper working broadband system throughout the country from east to west!

[/LEFT]
[/CENTER]

I don't seem to remember any of the newspapers reporting on how people must pay €550 to get information from the Freedom of Information Act. It's ridiculous that this was and is allowed to continue.

Broadband in Dublin and surrounding areas is a joke. Go to Clonee, a few miles west of Blanchardstown, and the broadband connection is almost non-existent.

Good post, (it still won't make a blind bit of difference to the FF sheep) and I'm sure that if you wanted to, you could post pages of failures this government has overseen.

Biggins

Eutow wrote: »

I don't seem to remember any of the newspapers reporting on how people must pay €550 to get information from the Freedom of Information Act. It's scandalous that this was and is allowed to continue...

Just on that point there is a good few articles on about it. For example:

The Sunday Tribune tried to get access to ministerial travel paid for by Tourism Ireland between 2002 and 2006, but this newspaper was told that a fee of €1,676 would have to be paid first.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2009/sep/13/dear-john-sorry-were-still-following-the-money/

See also the following: http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/sep/13/what-price-information-costly-search-for-records/

TRYING to determine the real scale of extravagant spending on overseas travel by John O'Donoghue and his wife Kate-Ann has been an expensive, time-consuming and often fruitless exercise.

Records of the massive expenditure, which is already well in excess of €550,000, lie not just with O'Donoghue's former Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism but at least three other agencies under its umbrella: Tourism Ireland, Horse Racing Ireland and the Irish Film Board.

The Sunday Tribune has sought access to the spending record at all four bodies but the only one made available so far has been the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism. This resulted from a payment of €523.75 by this newspaper, which was separated into two requests.

The first Freedom of Information (FOI) request spanned the years 2006 and 2007 and yielded hundreds of pages of documents detailing flights, hotels, transport costs, travel itineraries and emails sent within the department.

The second FOI request [published today], which was written in exactly the same terms, yielded only FOUR pages of information, which came in the form of a tabulated, heavily-redacted response detailing more than €174,447 in spending, which excludes the cost of the government jet.

In this second FOI, the names of hotels have now been omitted; details of what class the O'Donoghues flew in are not available; the name of the car hire company that was used is not included; and the O'Donoghues' day-to-day itineraries are missing.

Also conspicuous by their absence are dozens of individual bills for flights, hotels and other expenditure paid for – on behalf of the taxpayer – by Tourism Ireland, the Irish Film Board and Horse Racing Ireland.

An attempt to get access to ministerial travel expenditure at Tourism Ireland during the period 2002 to 2005 would have cost more than €1,600.

Similarly, there is a huge premium on records at the Irish Film Board: for an examination of spending in that body filed last year, the quoted price was also a four-figure sum.

At Horse Racing Ireland, the Sunday Tribune has not even been offered an estimate of how much it will cost to provide details of expenditure on O'Donoghue and his wife.

"There may be relevant records across a range of categories and locations but this would require a review of a significant volume of records covering the five years involved and significant time required to identify, locate, collate and copy such documentation," said a letter from the agency. "You may wish to vary your application and please feel free to revert to... [us] in this regard."

So much for freedom of information
If they can't stop you one way - they will another!!!

Eutow

Looking at that article we can no longer claim to have a Freedom of Information Act. A lot of it is heavily redacted, meaning a lot of the juicy stuff is left out.

On the 21st of January 2007, the Green Party stated on their website that they would re-instate, and strengthen the FOI Act:

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/greens_would_re_instate_and_strengthen_1997_freedom_of_information_act

Wonder how that's going..........

Biggins

Eutow wrote: »

Looking at that article we can no longer claim to have a Freedom of Information Act. A lot of it is heavily redacted, meaning a lot of the juicy stuff is left out.

On the 21st of January 2007, the Green Party stated on their website that they would re-instate, and strengthen the FOI Act:

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/greens_would_re_instate_and_strengthen_1997_freedom_of_information_act

Wonder how that's going..........

Well seeing as they don't want the public digging into what they are up to too, don't expect any changes soon!
Further mad examples: http://www.unitedpeople.ie/greed.html (Click on the pics for larger size)

View

Scofflaw wrote: »

I detest being put in a position where I'm seen to defend Fianna Fáil, but I do hope the rest of your statements are more accurate than this one:



That isn't €4.5bn "on a Dublin cycle track" - it's €4.5bn for a decade-long transport strategy:

Ahh, what a pity. A 4.5Bn cycle track would be amazing -perhaps even useful too!

The "150,000 people commuting by bike" target is just moonshine - there is no way it'll happen unless there is a Dutch style bike revolution with motorists being legally required to yield to cyclists. And I just don't see that happening.

View

Biggins, there is no point in complaining about FF. Okay, so you don't like them - but so what?

As a party, they are and have been, remarkedly succesful at keeping their voters happy and loyal. They have done this by pursuing the policies that their voters wanted. Odds are pretty good most of those voters will vote for them come the next election and, in an election, that is what counts.

Biggins

View wrote: »

Biggins, there is no point in complaining about FF. Okay, so you don't like them - but so what?

As a party, they are and have been, remarkedly succesful at keeping their voters happy and loyal. They have done this by pursuing the policies that their voters wanted. Odds are pretty good most of those voters will vote for them come the next election and, in an election, that is what counts.

I'd say slightly different. They are and have been, remarkable and successful at keeping their voters pacified, fooled and distracted by slow dissemination of some information and non-disclosure of other information of which we have only the media to be thankful to, for bringing to light in spite of the underhand tactics of the crooks within.

Thankfully at the next general election their day is done and a number of inquiries that they are refusing to carry out (for obvious reasons) - will then be done also...
(mind you I suspect a lot of documents and information will go "missing" before that day)

...and as for "but so what?"
Well its our right to protest and highlight such incompetence, abuses and outright sickening behaviour and continue to do so.
We're not a censorship dictatorship yet as much as FF and the few lessening by day supporters of them would like to think so. Thats so what...!

Some just won't "go quietly into the night" as FF would like us to do!

Eutow

View wrote: »

Biggins, there is no point in complaining about FF. Okay, so you don't like them - but so what?

As a party, they are and have been, remarkedly succesful at keeping their voters happy and loyal. They have done this by pursuing the policies that their voters wanted. Odds are pretty good most of those voters will vote for them come the next election and, in an election, that is what counts.

There will be quite a lot of voters that will vote Fianna Fail no matter what, but by highlighting the ineptitude, corruption, and sense of entitlement that exists within FF, (and the other parties), maybe enough people will stop voting for the same bunch of crooks all the time, and demand higher standards from our representatives.

paddyland

The problem is, that most of that rot and corruption goes miles over the head of the average voter. Too many ordinary Joe Soaps are only vaguely aware that Fianna Fáil are 'somehow' corrupt, but probably no more so than the 'other' political parties are. And if held to answer just what that corruption might be, most people couldn't actually give a coherent example, other than grumbling about how tough the budget was on them personally, or some trite comment about how much politicians pay themselves.

The entire text of the OP's post should be regurgitated, day, after day, after day, to keep the rot at the top of everyone's minds, particularly come election time. But who would do it? Certainly not RTE, certainly not the mainstream media, all who seem to have a ball cupped in a FF hand somewhere out of view. Even the most outspoken journalists or commentators seem to have an invisible line beyond which they may not cross. FF have this country by the balls. Unfortunately, it appears somebody else has FF by the balls. Like the guy who grabs his dentist by the balls and says, 'We're not going to hurt each other, are we,' this mutual ball breaking fest, with everybody getting a good grip of everybody else's balls, leads to a stalemate, where nobody dare break the chain.

So how do you keep pressing home the OP's point? Here on a small corner of the internet, with a readership of probably a hundredth of one percent of the population (with respect to Boards!)? Nobody GIVES a damn, and boy do Fianna Fáil know it, and milk it to the nth. If there were a call to pitchforks on Kildare Street tomorrow, how many do you think there would be? Enough to make Cowen choke on a coco pop?

The answer, unfortunately, seems to come back to the same thing that bedevils this whole country; feather your own nest, look after your own corner, put a big wall and an electric gate around yourself, and to hell with the masses. Nobody respects themselves, each other, the state, anything. It's dog eat dog.

rowa

View wrote: »

Biggins, there is no point in complaining about FF. Okay, so you don't like them - but so what?

As a party, they are and have been, remarkedly succesful at keeping their voters happy and loyal. They have done this by pursuing the policies that their voters wanted. Odds are pretty good most of those voters will vote for them come the next election and, in an election, that is what counts.

you get a massive amount of people , mainly from rural areas in my experience who vote for this odious corrupt crowd simply because their fathers or grandfathers etc voted for them in years gone by , beverly cooper flynn is a case in point , caught up to no good and still gets elected . you get the government you deserve ,but as someone who has never voted for fianna fail i think i have suffered them enough .

Biggins

paddyland wrote: »

...The entire text of the OP's post should be regurgitated, day, after day, after day, to keep the rot at the top of everyone's minds, particularly come election time. But who would do it?...

At the next general election I intend at my own cost to have printed up, the above list with more added to it. I then intend to leaflet post a copy of it through as many doors of my home town as possible.
I don't say this lightly - I'm not a keyboard warrior - I just get my ass off, out and protest.

I'VE HAD A GOD-DAMN ENOUGH.

oppenheimer1

Just some notes on some of your points...

Whats wrong with spending money on cycle lanes? If you head over to our very lively cycling forum you'll find that plenty of people would be delighted to have upgraded infrastructure in Dublin as what exists in many cases is inadequate. Government has more priorities than just one.

Not in this thread but in general you attack our health system. Might I actually remind you we have one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Yes there are problems, which every system has and there are others that are peculiar to our own, and due to our small population it is difficult to provide speciality care that some patients require (often available in much larger countries) but in general I am happy to get treated in an Irish hospital.

In relation to your other points, during the boom, the treasury was overflowing with money, the government wanted to give it away and the people wanted it, so ultimately FF were giving people what they wanted. Thats how we ended up here today.

BTW Ireland has the most expensive electricity in Europe in order to encourage other companies to come into the irish energy market. Its an artificial concept to make energy prices more competitive in the long term.

Finally, whatever about the journalistic pieces being credible sources unitedpeople.ie certainly is not. Just from a cursory glance and reading the inflamatory language used, it is pretty clear that the admins have an axe to grind. €4.5bn on a cycle scheme isn't true as you have now acknowledged, but is presented as fact on the site.

nesf

Biggins, in future quote the source of each piece you link to beside it, don't just give a list of sites at the end. In future back up each statement. You've made quite a few very serious claims there and if you are excepted to back up such statements and provide decent sources (i.e. find something better than unitedpeople.ie please).

Daithinski

View wrote: »

The "150,000 people commuting by bike" target is just moonshine - there is no way it'll happen unless there is a Dutch style bike revolution with motorists being legally required to cyclists. And I just don't see that happening.

Never say never! Wait and see how expensive petrol gets.

But then, I suppose, we wouldn't need a cycle track as we would have the roads!

Daithinski

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

BTW Ireland has the most expensive electricity in Europe in order to encourage other companies to come into the irish energy market. Its an artificial concept to make energy prices more competitive in the long term.
.

I thought it was (in part) because the ESB didn't invest in upgrading their infrastructure for twenty/thirty years and it was therefore artificially low. I have a recollection of a green party muppet saying this.

(The point you make was made to him and he didn't seem to agree.)

View

Biggins wrote: »

Thankfully at the next general election their day is done and a number of inquiries that they are refusing to carry out (for obvious reasons) - will then be done also...

You are being presumptious that "their day is done".

First up, in rural Ireland, politics is essentially a 2 horse race between FF & FG in most places (with Lab or SF on occassion getting the last seat), so there is no question of them disappearing.

Worst case for FF is they drop to FG's numbers in the Dail and they then rebuild from opposition - a tough but potentially doable task. Best case for them is the current government survives as long as possible - ideally until 2012 - and the economy should be recovered (ideally) or recovering, and they gets lots of votes for having been tough enough to take the hard decisions.

I'd say you'd have a better chance of killing off Dracula.

zebrafumbler

Biggins wrote: »

At the next general election I intend at my own cost to have printed up, the above list with more added to it. I then intend to leaflet post a copy of it through as many doors of my home town as possible.
I don't say this lightly - I'm not a keyboard warrior - I just get my ass off, out and protest.

I'VE HAD A GOD-DAMN ENOUGH.

Thats a very well put together post and a shocking indictment of our "ruling class". The saddest part is the fact that there is no real alternative. A few different parties fighting for control of a single ideology state. The march towards the one world government run by bankers is well under way with the Lisbon treaty being ratified. I'd say Irish people are even more docile and apathetic than the Americans. We need to organize and start revolting against the muppets that run this country.

nice_guy80

Biggins wrote: »

Before this decade is over, for those politically motivated, I though it would be nice to summarise just some of what could be a last time (apparently a percentage of the population couldn't be arsed doing anything in protest) to highlight what our Fianna Fail comrades have been up to and still are.

---

[font=&quot]A Decade Of Fianna Fail Failures (and a few years of the Greens too!)[/font]

[font=&quot]Ferns/Murphy Reports[/font][font=&quot]: [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to implement the reforms incorporated. [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to go after the many of those directly responsible. The question needs to be asked – WHY?[/font]
- [font=&quot] Failure (deliberately?) to go after those that knew of the crimes being committed and their cover-up. The 720-page report said that it has "no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up" from January 1975 to May 2004. As charted by the Murphy commission, the complaints of parents and their children were ignored and other families placed in immediate danger as prelates from John Charles McQuaid onwards suppressed scandals and took refuge in canon law to protect offenders at the expense of innocent children. The vast majority of uninvolved priests turned a blind eye[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold fully accountable the institutions financially for their crimes – instead the state pays up! The religious organisations are allowed only to donate a minority percentage![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to investigate the Gardi lack of response and STILL unwilling to do so and hold those responsible, accountable. "Twenty detectives have been assigned to the so-called 'God Squad' since 2002. But despite evidence that priests were transferred to other parishes, where they continued to abuse, and despite public admissions by senior figures that not all relevant information was passed to the civil authorities, no charges will NOT be laid against senior members of the church."[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to separate Church from state schools. The current Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe has said it was not within his remit to decide if religious organisations should be distanced from schools. Fcuk me! - If the minister for education can't control over what governs his schools - WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING IN HIS OVER PAID POSITION? If he is such an incompetent fool not able to control his own education department - why the hell is the state still paying to have his sorry useless ass in the top seat?[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure and CURRENTLY stalling any further investigations outside of Dublin, into other many cases of religious abuses. Fianna Fail are hoping the public interest will die and they can quietly shelve such investigation.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure of Fianna Fail and its head, Brian Cowen to visibly on our TV screens, radio, in the Dail to stand up, come out and take on the Catholic church and its Bishops over the past abuses and the possible still current ones which they still have not given full disclosure about.[/font]

[font=&quot]Banking sector: [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to control the banking regulations and regulators.[/font]
[font=&quot]- [/font]Failure to give the banking regulators the necessary powers to do their job. Why? Is this because some of the banks were giving paperless loans (loans?) to Fianna Fail members and friends including Charlie McCrevey and Celia Ahern? Also Fianna Fail senator Francie O'Brien received more than €7m from the building society, while former Fianna Fail senator Don Lydon was granted a €3m loan. Sean McCarthy, a Fianna Fail councillor, had also received more than €300,000 with minimum paperwork.
- [font=&quot]Failure and still unwilling to hold an enquiry in to the goings on of the Irish major banks. Mr Cowen is still unwilling and is stalling, putting any decision on the long finger, despite calls from retiring Financial Services Ombudsman Joe Meade and Central Bank governor Patrick Honohan. [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold Michael Fingleton of Irish Nationwide accountable (looking after friends?). Instead he got a nice handsome payoff for the rest of his life.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failing STILL to hold Michael Fingleton accountable for a controversial €1m bonus, despite promising to do so eight months ago.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle and investigate the bank regulator Patrick Neary, who was found not to have been doing his job for a decade, while Sean FitzPatrick hid scores of millions a year from Anglo Irish Bank. He was allowed to take early retirement, with a tax-free golden handshake worth about €400,000 and a pension of €140,000!!![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain and justify the huge losses of NAMA which is coming, that A LOT of non-government international qualified recognised businessmen and accountants has stated, will happen. [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain just why the same bankers that are still personally being rewarded – are some of the same ones that created the mess and why in gods name do they still hold banking positions if they are so stupid in the first place![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why the Irish banks are still screwing the public on their mortgages Thursday 3rd September, the ECB (European Central Bank) announced that it was freezing it’s interest rates for a whole year across Europe at just 1%. This means that mortgage holders should expect to hold onto their record low interest payments. However Irish individual banks are not treating their home customers in the same fashion, their rates are being increased, the frozen rates is not being passed on to them. Customers are advised by the ECB to move their mortgage elsewhere if possible or at least start asking questions at their bank and Irish politicians! The ECB is freezing its rates till September 2010[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain[/font] why those within the new NAMA body, people have been silenced by state secrecy and censorship orders laid down. See the following article: http://i29.tinypic.com/23j5nvt.jpg and http://i25.tinypic.com/25iluld.jpg . Between that and the NAMA mess (and disaster to come) where they didn't allow for those already in financial trouble - See: http://i27.tinypic.com/14uchhu.jpg

[font=&quot]Money Matters[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold Bertie Ahern accountable for the huge tax he owes to the state. He is STILL “in negotiation” with the revenue commissioners after four years of stalling and hoping the matter will quietly die away out of the public eye. He still owes hundreds of thousands despite still receiving a current state Taoiseach’s pension, is still allowed to hold a TD position and still gain a full elected TD employed wage with huge state perks including, state allowances, state transport, etc... On top of this he works for a media newspaper, hold directorships on a number of companies which includes HUGE wage payments for such positions.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why Ireland has the most expensive electricity in Europe.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain the M50 orbital road around Dublin, which crosses over the Liffey valley. The State decided to build the motorway on either side of the valley, but handed the construction of the connecting bridge, with toll rights, to a private company, the National Toll Roads. In addition to enabling NTR to make hundreds of millions from an entirely captive driving community, the actual process of collecting tolls was so inefficient that it caused huge traffic jams.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to further investigate Mr Ahern and his many questionable accounting practises, monetary gains and their even more questionable sources.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to investigate Rody Molloy in FAS who, after massive abuse of his position, was also allowed to take early retirement, with a golden handshake, plus full pension.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold an investigation into the retired directors general from the civil service whose pensions are now worth more than their salaries when they were working, but were not subject to any of the income reductions being imposed on junior civil servants, whose incomes are down by some 15pc in a year and who are now spiralling towards ruin.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to hold RTE accountable for the HUGE wages they are paying their big so called stars and directors. Failure to investigate how they can set themselves up as “limited companies” (!!!) and use this status to avoid paying tax at the proper state rates like the rest of us mere Irish mortals! Failure to tackle this form of tax evasion – bordering on tax fraud and why STILL no changes to the current tax laws are not being implemented![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to combat the cross border shopping fiasco and the underlying reasons for it and failure to take appropriate steps to incentivise shoppers to stay this side of the border[/font]

[font=&quot]Dail Matters[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure or unwillingness to talk about the 600,000 people that has moved to Ireland in 15 years, but has never once discussed immigration and its effect on the country and the ongoing situation![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to regain back ANY of the money squandered by John O'Donoghue and how he still holds his elected seat![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to currently tackle the current unwilling TD who outright refuse to use a modern day function of clocking-in so that better attendance records can be kept in line with fire regulations to begin with! I wonder why they don’t want on better record just how long each one actually stays in the Dail to do their elected job there! I wonder why...himmmmm!!! [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure and unwillingness to tackle Minister for Defence Willie O’Dea on the lying public statements he made in an interview with a journalist from the Limerick Chronicle on March 10th, 2009.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain how in gods name is independent TDs getting HUGE wages and perks. For example Jackie Healy Rea who for his Fianna Fail loyalty, is handsomely rewarded for such loyalty in wages and expenses - last year €89,000 in expenses alone on top of his triple Dail wages (Basic Salary: €106,581 + Independent Allowance: €41,152 + Committee Chair: €10,241) and other perks which according to accounts last made public totaled €289,769! plus expenses averaging yearly from €68,000 to €89,000. See for example: http://i32.tinypic.com/256wso2.jpg [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain lack of department cuts but in fact can help themselves to a wine cellar at the department of Foreign Affairs... http://i29.tinypic.com/2u4szzc.jpg[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain (I wonder why!) why so many sitting TD's are earning not only their TD Salary but also a ministerial pension as well as full wages for teaching positions that are currently “on hold” for them- some as long as 15 years “on hold”. Meanwhile Ahern again, being an example with his ex-taoiseach and ex-minister pensions and perks (his attendance record since stepping down is one of the lowest in the Dail). What has happened to getting your pension when you retire?[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why Mr Tom Higgins, a highly respected chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission's audit committee had to dramatically quit after repeated lack of action and ignorance by TDs to see through reform on their expenses and wages. He was left "seething" by the refusal of politicians to heed his concerns -- particularly over the expenses and allowances they pay themselves. Mr O'Higgins, a former senior partner at accountants PriceWaterhouse Coopers with absolute strong international credentials, had favoured the introduction of vouched expenses for TDs and senators. He also believes there should be an annual cap on the amount of expenses any TD or senator can pocket under particular categories. Irelands TDs however in a blatant show of hatred for his reforms have been and STILLL ARE ignoring him, the department under him and under its current head and the blanking proposals they have put forth for years.[/font]

[font=&quot]State issues:[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle the unions and their stranglehold over the TDs, allowing them to get whatever the hell they want in the long run.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle serious crime. Failure to stop the current prison system from turning into near unofficial holiday camps for some criminals. Flatscreen tv’s, weight gyms, games rooms, phones, drugs available at will, etc...[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to re-change the current process related to freedom of information. For example, before the fiasco started about the many state perks abused by many of our politicians, any person could gain information on their TD with a small nominal charge and a bulk of paper in response. NOW, if you apply for information the price for any single document starts at the mid €550 range and you get if you’re lucky, three pages of summarised words with the bulk of the actual detail left out! They are making it harder to gain information on your local and state representives – and just exactly what they are getting up to in our name.[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to tackle social welfare fraud, internal and across order areas. Failure to tackle the PPS fraud that is robbing the state of millions per year, Failure totally of any system to recuperate the money stolen by fraud claims, from those responsible.[/font]

[font=&quot]...Then there is the just plain stupid![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why it took 15 YEARS!!! for the Government to announce - again - after 15 straight winters and half the country vanishing under a midwinter flood - that it is only now inviting tenders for a feasibility study into the merits of a national flood warning system![/font]
- [font=&quot]Why the cabinet spin kings and PR people for the government got/is getting a 100% payrise! See: http://tinypic.com/r/30mlou9/6[/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why they allowed Dublin council to rule that all place names in the capital must now be spelt in Irish only, with Irish spelling, in a city in which almost no one regularly converses in the language. Moreover, why Irish still is a compulsory and universal subject at school, rather like English is in Germany, but almost no one speaks the language across the entire country! [/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to justify why when thief Haughey died, having stolen from the state for decades left, right and centre, was still given a state funeral – jeasus, some muppets even have erected a statue![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain why for a country that outside of America, produces a hell of the world manufactured software, has yet to implement ANY proper working broadband system throughout the country from east to west![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to explain in ANY way shape or form to the blind, why Fianna Fail is still looking after the banks and their directors with payoffs – while the blind in this country is having their blind allowances cut and their support services![/font]
- [font=&quot]Failure to justify when we are in dire straits, why we are still going to spend part (€10 MILLION) of €4.5 billion on a Dublin cycle track! Announced (7th/02/09) by Mr Noel Demsey, word is that it’s still going ahead! See: http://tinypic.com/r/24q0euh/6[/font]

The Health service

Its just too friggin' huge to start listing the problems there right now and about how its a total failure by those running it!

Just don't forget to vote Fianna Fail at the next election! :rolleyes:

[font=&quot]Just some of the sources[/font][font=&quot]:[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1219/1224260976585.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mccreevy-was-given-euro16m-loan-by-fingleton-1984611.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_Report[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.paddydoyle.com/murphy-report-background-and-composition[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-try-explaining-aspects-of-irish-life-to-a-german-when-youre-done-try-explaining-them-to-me-1976481.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1219/1224260976590.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1222/1224261109197.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.unitedpeople.ie/[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/my-faith-helped-to-save-church-abuse-deal-says-woods-495734.html[/font]
[font=&quot]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0525/1224247322672.html[/font]

you forgot to include the neglect of education by Zanu FF.
failure to build new schools where they are needed. failure to redevelop schools that are overcrowded, rundown and in need of serious investment.
Batt O'Keefe failed to spend 231 million this year. put up more prefabs seems to be the FF mantra (who owns those companies though?? FF supporters)
funding of IT in schools is a joke. lowest levels of IT in europe
PE facilities are non existant in most schools.
failure to properly invest in 4th level research and development in universities.
the list goes on and on

freewheeler

Eutow wrote: »

There will be quite a lot of voters that will vote Fianna Fail no matter what, but by highlighting the ineptitude, corruption, and sense of entitlement that exists within FF, (and the other parties), maybe enough people will stop voting for the same bunch of crooks all the time, and demand higher standards from our representatives.

We can only hope..however the electorate have proven many times how easily they can be fooled or maybe just how ignorant they really are...

Laminations

This is worth a read, if someone with a bit more gravitas than myself would like to start a thread about it I think its worth debating - its received very little attention

HOW AND WHY FIANNA FAIL AND ITS ALLIES HAVE BROUGHT THE IRISH ECONOMY TO ITS KNEES
http://www.irishleftreview.org/2009/06/18/squandered-boom/

Also worth a read
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0703/1224249965637.html