Multiple apparitions reported in Egypt today

partyatmygaff

I have a few friends who live in Egypt and there has been reports of apparitions of Mary for the past 2 weeks over a church close to the Nile. It was all over the news over there from what they've told me and it was witnessed by a few thousand people of all faiths.

There are a few videos recorded, some aren't very good quality but it is quite interesting nonetheless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXvNzDj5tAA

A video recording the event

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvtXjWMPcwg

A talk show discussing the event (I'm aware its in arabic but the footage is a bit better)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOCQeYECWU0

Another video (NOTE at around 4:30 the apparition vanishes)

Now these are admittedly not great quality but camera phones are not exactly the most adept at capturing bright light against the night sky.

Now whats more interesting is that today on the 22nd of December, apparitions of the type were being reported all around the entire country across many churches. According to what I've been told (Hasn't hit the news yet as it only happened a few hours ago) the entire city was chaotic and the churches with reported apparitions were packed with people. People reported seeing doves accompanying each apparition.

No videos have been uploaded as of yet (I haven't found any yet anyway...) but there was a report that in one of the apparitions of Mary she was accompanied by a figure which appeared to be John the baptist who was on ground level with the observers and was visible for only a few seconds before vanishing.

All of this was recorded by many of the observers according to my friend, I expect there will be videos and pictures uploaded by tomorrow.

Whats your take on all this?

Turtwig

3rd video..

4:30 onwards play it in slow motion.

partyatmygaff

Malty_T wrote: »

3rd video..

4:30 onwards play it in slow motion.

There appears to be a bright orange dot left behind for a split second. No idea what it could be.

mardybumbum

At 4:30 it really does appear to me that somebody has turned off a bulb.
Either that or St. Elmo's fire.

partyatmygaff

mardybumbum wrote: »

At 4:30 it really does appear to me that somebody has turned off a bulb.
Either that or St. Elmo's fire.

I doubt St.Elmo's fire would occur over many different churches a few days in a row and it wouldn't be white, blue and yellow either. That would be very unlikely.

I wouldn't think thats a bulb though. First of all from perspective it seems to be a good bit behind the dome and it appears very high off the dome (Which is a massive thing by itself). Not only that but to get a light that bright you would need something a lot more powerful than incandescent bulbs. Halogen bulbs slowly dim when the power is cut off, they don't just completely vanish. Not only that but according to what I've been told, the apparition was moving.
It just doesn't appear to be a bulb.

Turtwig

mardybumbum wrote: »

At 4:30 it really does appear to me that somebody has turned off a bulb.
Either that or St. Elmo's fire.

I was thinking ball lightening* (esp with the cross in close proximity) but St Elmo (thought that was just volcanoes and plane through ash cloud guess you learn something new everyday:))? Who knows but was there really thunder or lightening in the vicinity?


*Don't think it remains stationary.

Turtwig

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I doubt St.Elmo's fire would occur over many different churches a few days in a row and it wouldn't be white, blue and yellow either.

Electrical phenomena are, however, ideal for Churchs because of the spire/crosses.
Unfortunately it does just look like a bulb.

partyatmygaff

Malty_T wrote: »

Electrical phenomena are, however, ideal for Churchs because of the spire/crosses.

True but it would be a very unlikely coincedence for it to occur on many different churches all at the same time. The past 2 weeks there were apparitions at one church on the Nile.
Not only that but there are far far more mosques in the country than churches and they are usually equally high if not usually higher than churches yet nothing was reported at any mosque.

mardybumbum

Malty_T wrote: »

Who knows but was there really thunder or lightening in the vicinity?

As far as I know, lightening strikes dont always follow St. Elmos. I believe St. Elmos fire is just the streamer that the ground sends off when there is an electrical unbalance in the air.
It is only when the streamers connect with the electron "spirits" emmited from the clouds so we see the lightening bolt.

And they certainly do emit blue and white light, not sure about the yellow though.

Turtwig

mardybumbum wrote: »

As far as I know, lightening strikes dont always follow St. Elmos. I believe St. Elmos fire is just the streamer that the ground sends off when there is an electrical unbalance in the air.
It is only when the streamers connect with the electron "spirits" emmited from the clouds so we see the lightening bolt.

And they certainly do emit blue and white light, not sure about the yellow though.

Cool. Yeah, I understand that lightening strikes don't always cause it but for such a long duration is it really possible without lightening.

Anyways here's a cool video of ball lightening hopping around.

Jako8

I'd like to see better footage. I'll give a better opinion of it when I do.

Why is it when these "phenomena" occur no one has a half decent camera or a steady hand? :rolleyes:

partyatmygaff

Malty_T wrote: »

Electrical phenomena are, however, ideal for Churchs because of the spire/crosses.
Unfortunately it does just look like a bulb.

How would a bulb produce that appearance?

Theres a lot of things to dispute the idea that it could be a bulb.
1. What type of bulb produces multicoloured light in a shape such as shown (It wasn't light which was witnessed, people at the church witnessed a detailed figure but we only have the videos to work with here).

2. If such a bulb existed how would it fade to a bright yellow dot at one point near the top of the figure. If it was indeed a bulb it must have been something such as halogen lighting which slowly dims as it loses power. Not only that but assuming that orange dot is indeed an aritificial light source of some kind would it not be not only too small to provide the power of light witnessed in the video but would the light not appear stronger near the top of the figure? The figure appears uniform in brightness.

3. If you note the position of the dot you will see that it is very high above the dome and appears quite a bit behind it. What kind of mount would it have that wouldn't have been noticed by the people?

partyatmygaff

Jako8 wrote: »

I'd like to see better footage. I'll give a better opinion of it when I do.

Why is it when these "phenomena" occur no one has a half decent camera or a steady hand? :rolleyes:

There isn't a messageboard which says Apparition at 8pm sharp - Don't be late

Most people keep phones in their pockets and well thats what they used....

mardybumbum

Halogen bulbs slowly dim when the power is cut off

As did the image in the video.

Not only that but there are far far more mosques in the country

Minarets would keep their charge though, due to their spherical shape, No?

I could be totally wrong. My physics education stopped after the LC.

Jako8

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There isn't a messageboard which says Apparition at 8pm sharp - Don't be late

Most people keep phones in their pockets and well thats what they used....

Joe Coleman?

Ahh I know But in this day and age when a lot of phones have quite good camera quality(good enough to record a decent video anyways).

partyatmygaff

mardybumbum wrote: »

As did the image in the video.


Minarets would keep their charge though, due to their spherical shape, No?

I could be totally wrong. My physics education stopped after the LC.

The image in the video quickly snapped to a dot before vanishing. If you ever turned off a halogen spotlight you would notice it dims rather than "snaps" off.

Mosques have many domes, spires and other structures yet they did not have any light above it. Regardless it would be a very weird coincedence for electrical phenomena of this scale to occur at many different churches at the same time after 2 weeks of similar appearances.

mardybumbum

There isn't a messageboard which says Apparition at 8pm sharp - Don't be late

Wait till Joe Coleman gets a hold of this. :pac:

What type of bulb produces multicoloured light in a shape such as shown

None that I know of. However, there are many objects that can seperate the different colours of light based on their wavelengths.

If such a bulb existed how would it fade to a bright yellow dot at one point

Most bulbs share this characteristic.

What kind of mount would it have that wouldn't have been noticed by the people?

Well it is quite dark during these "apparitions" and unless it was a very heavy bulb I dont see why a discreet mount would not be able to be used.

I wonder how the St. Elmos fire disappears. Does it fade away?

partyatmygaff

Jako8 wrote: »

Joe Coleman?

Ahh I know But in this day and age when a lot of phones have quite good camera quality(good enough to record a decent video anyways).

Yeah but remember again this is Egypt we are talking about. A huge amount of people buy chinese knock off phones (A lot of people have high end phones though, in some of the videos you can see people holding up iphones but then again there camera isn't exactly top notch either but thats for another thread )

Its overexposure which makes the details hard to see. If you have a camera with you right now that can support taking photos in negative colour try viewing the video in that and you might see more detail. I'll give it a try now myself.
Edit: You can see a bit better in negative, but not much more detail.

Turtwig

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The image in the video quickly snapped to a dot before vanishing. If you ever turned off a halogen spotlight you would notice it dims rather than "snaps" off.

Mosques have many domes, spires and other structures yet they did not have any light above it. Regardless it would be a very weird coincedence for electrical phenomena of this scale to occur at many different churches at the same time after 2 weeks of similar appearances.

I have a fancy theory on controlling the shape.
A quick google found this video and hopefully the illustration should tell you something.

I'm guessing a projector would work too.:)

partyatmygaff

Hmm, Maybe but I doubt they could have used systems as complex as this around the country without anyone noticing anything.
A projectors beam would be easily visible behind it. I don't think a few thousand people would have been fooled by a projector.

I guess when the videos of today's appearances are uploaded we can learn more.

I actually just found this, an apparition in broad daylight.
If you look at the central pillar of the cross you will notice the light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOs1xt-I1Yw

mardybumbum

The image in the video quickly snapped to a dot before vanishing. If you ever turned off a halogen spotlight you would notice it dims rather than "snaps" off.

I often carry a halogen lamp with me when I am collecting coal from the bunker. When I turn it off it gets dark fairly quickly. There is a orange glow of it for two seconds max, very similar to what I saw in the video.

Mosques have many domes, spires and other structures yet they did not have any light above it. Regardless it would be a very weird coincedence for electrical phenomena of this scale to occur at many different churches at the same time after 2 weeks of similar appearances.

Domes will hold onto their charge. I have yet to see a mosque with a true spire. The spires on mosques are often decorated with ornaments.

Hank_Jones

Those Egyptians trying to upstage us..

Sure it's no Holy stump of Rathkeale...

opinion guy

Partyatmygaff what do you think it is ?

Hank_Jones

You would be suprised what people would be fooled by...

mardybumbum

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I actually just found this, an apparition in broad daylight.
If you look at the central pillar of the cross you will notice the light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOs1xt-I1Yw

Hmmm, Im going to be honest.
That really just looks like the sun shining on a plate of steel or some other metal.

If only these apparitions were a bit clearer. Why can we never see mary's face in any of them?
Why must she appear in a tree stump, or as the symptoms of solar retinopathy, or as a ball of multicoloured light?
All Im asking for is one apparition where I can make out her face.
Can you hear me up there?

Dr. Loon

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Hmm, Maybe but I doubt they could have used systems as complex as this around the country without anyone noticing anything.
A projectors beam would be easily visible behind it. I don't think a few thousand people would have been fooled by a projector.

I guess when the videos of today's appearances are uploaded we can learn more.

I actually just found this, an apparition in broad daylight.
If you look at the central pillar of the cross you will notice the light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOs1xt-I1Yw

Eh. That's just a reflection of the sun isn't it?! Why doesn't Mary appear as herself? Why always a bright light or some other such nonsense that can generally be explained by something else, like the sun, or weather?

partyatmygaff

Dr. Loon wrote: »

Eh. That's just a reflection of the sun isn't it?! Why doesn't Mary appear as herself? Why always a bright light or some other such nonsense that can generally be explained by something else, like the sun, or weather?

If it was a reflection would it not have affected the top portion of the cross aswell?

In any case, extremely bright lights and cameras do not go to well together. Its as if you took a digital camera and pointed it at a lightbulb, you wouldn't see the filament. All you would see is light. From what has been said, the people who were recording it did not just see light without form.

partyatmygaff

More pictures have been uploaded


A photograph of the sheer amount of people at the church tooken from a nearby apartment by the look of the photo.



Dove in flight in sky over church (Doves aren't nocturnal animals)


More doves in a cross formation over the sky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY4Iqy1R9yQ

This is a video recorded yesterday in which a figure appearing to be John the Baptist was witnessed at ground level. At around 0:04 the figure disappears. The annotations in the video are in arabic and it points towards the area of the video that the figure is visible in.

Turtwig

Joe's definitely gonna be pissed.

mardybumbum

If it was a reflection would it not have affected the top portion of the cross aswell?

It looked like a piece of metal propped up against the cross.

Dove in flight in sky over church (Doves aren't nocturnal animals)

They aren't flourescent animals either. :pac:
PHOTOSHOP

At around 0:04 the figure disappears

Ok cool, but when does the figure appear?
And how does anyone know what John the Baptist looks like. Have you met him?
Caravaggio and Da Vinci certainly had different opinions on his appearance.
The same could be said for the Virgin Mary and Jesus.
Its more likely that Jesus was a midget with dark skin and a bulging nose, typical of most of the palestinian population at that time.
Its amazing how the west has continued to portray Jesus as an extremely tall man with a long slender nose and pale skin. The fact that most people readily accept that view is just as absurd. Would they not find a dark skinned Jesus fit to worship?

And I'm sure Mary looked like many other young women of her time.

PDN

mardybumbum wrote: »

Its amazing how the west has continued to portray Jesus as an extremely tall man with a long slender nose and pale skin. The fact that most people readily accept that view is just as absurd. Would they not find a dark skinned Jesus fit to worship?

Let's not get into silly insinuations about racism. People all over the world, not just the West, have a tendency to think of Jesus in terms of their own culture and experiences.



The early Roman Christians portrayed Jesus as clean-shaven and wearing a Roman tunic. I have seen portrayals of the crucifixion in China where Jesus looks more like the old man in the Karate Kid movie.

This is probably for similar reasons to why Kenneth Branagh does Shakespeare's plays with the cast in modern dress, or why many of the world's greatest painters chose to paint biblical themes with the characters dressed in contemporary clothing (even though they were well aware such clothing didn't exist in First Century Palestine). It stresses the fact that many people see Jesus as someone present with whom they can have a relationship, rather than a figure from long ago history.

So, it is fine to point out that Jesus probably looked like your typical Palestinian, but let's keep the racist connotations firmly in your pocket, OK?

mardybumbum

PDN wrote: »

Let's not get into silly insinuations about racism.

Fair enough.

KDunn

I cannot thank you enough for sharing this - It is MERELY MIRACULOUS that this is going on and low and behold almost 40 years to the date when Mother Mary last appeared in Egypt and the last time she appeared was approved by the Orthodox Church as an Official Apparition from God. Not sure who the Saint is below Our Lady but it sure is exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only I had enough money to travel there - I would wait for as long as I could to see Our Lady!!!!!!!!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING - God Bless YOU and Wishing You and Your Family a Blessed And Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!
PS: The DOVES, The DOVES!!!!!!!! For those of us who know our religion when it comes to DOVES showing up AND AT NIGHT - It makes it all the more confirmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nyarlothothep

It looks like 3 blobs of light which could be interpreted to be the vague form of a human. In any case it could have been staged, what better time than christmas to do it.

opinion guy

KDunn wrote: »

I cannot thank you enough for sharing this - It is MERELY MIRACULOUS that this is going on and low and behold almost 40 years to the date when Mother Mary last appeared in Egypt and the last time she appeared was approved by the Orthodox Church as an Official Apparition from God. Not sure who the Saint is below Our Lady but it sure is exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only I had enough money to travel there - I would wait for as long as I could to see Our Lady!!!!!!!!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING - God Bless YOU and Wishing You and Your Family a Blessed And Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!
PS: The DOVES, The DOVES!!!!!!!! For those of us who know our religion when it comes to DOVES showing up AND AT NIGHT - It makes it all the more confirmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forgive me.
Honestly I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious ?

partyatmygaff

nyarlothothep wrote: »

It looks like 3 blobs of light which could be interpreted to be the vague form of a human. In any case it could have been staged, what better time than christmas to do it.

Christmas in the Orthodox churches isn't on the 25th of December. I don't see how it could have been staged. No projector can project on anything but a solid surface.

opinion guy

@partyatmygaff

What is it that you actually think is going on here ? What debate are you trying to spark ? I've asked already but you didn't answer. What is the point of this thread ? What is it you think the random blobs of light on these low quality videos, as you yourself have called them, prove ???

partyatmygaff

opinion guy wrote: »

@partyatmygaff

What is it that you actually think is going on here ? What debate are you trying to spark ? I've asked already but you didn't answer. What is the point of this thread ? What is it you think the random blobs of light on these low quality videos, as you yourself have called them, prove ???

I amn't sparking debate. I am spreading news. The point of this thread is to inform and hear people's opinions.
These aren't random blobs of light. They are poor quality videos capturing something poorly. My friend who told me about this witnessed this personally and they wouldn't be the type to lie. The streets were chaotic around the churches according to them and there were quite a few muslims there some awestruck and some searching for a light source or bulb e.t.c. They reported seeing (Along with everyone else who was present) a clear detailed figure of Mary and of doves flying through the night sky. This was at one of the churches near downtown Cairo.

As for the person who claimed it was photoshopped....
If you open any thing in photoshop or other image program a digital watermark is added to it and can be detected by studying the meta data.
From looking at the photo in question's data I can see it has been processed by
Neatimage (ISO Noise Reduction program according to google)
XNView (Image organising program which was probably used for placing the text and logo in the corner)

There is no signature for photoshop present in the JPG.

The photo was tooken by either an Olympus C40Z (Pretty low end) or a Olympus D40Z which both share the same signature. They are identical cameras in spec afaik.


In any case, editing is easily visible.

nyarlothothep

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Christmas in the Orthodox churches isn't on the 25th of December. I don't see how it could have been staged. No projector can project on anything but a solid surface.

It could have been a light display. In any case it can be interpreted as anything as its pretty vague, it does not look human in any way only a collection of shapes that can be perceived as such. Muslims in Greece don't interpret it to be anything other than some lights so for me it proves that it isn't a physical manifestation of a divine spirit but some phenomenon that is in the eye of the beholder.

opinion guy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

If it was a reflection would it not have affected the top portion of the cross aswell?

In any case, extremely bright lights and cameras do not go to well together. Its as if you took a digital camera and pointed it at a lightbulb, you wouldn't see the filament. All you would see is light. From what has been said, the people who were recording it did not just see light without form.

I can explain that. If you look at the image again you can see that there is a portion of the cross coming out from the junction point towards direction of the camera. This is blocking a portion of the light from the top section thus reducing the intensity of light reflected off the top portion of the cross.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

These aren't random blobs of light. They are poor quality videos capturing something poorly. My friend who told me about this witnessed this personally and they wouldn't be the type to lie. The streets were chaotic around the churches according to them and there were quite a few muslims there some awestruck and some searching for a light source or bulb e.t.c. They reported seeing (Along with everyone else who was present) a clear detailed figure of Mary and of doves flying through the night sky. This was at one of the churches near downtown Cairo.

Yes your friend told you blah blah blah. Regardless - the point is what you have posted here are photos of random blobs of light. I just can't figure what it is you think you are achieving by it

partyatmygaff

opinion guy wrote: »

Yes your friend told you blah blah blah. Regardless - the point is what you have posted here are photos of random blobs of light. I just can't figure what it is you think you are achieving by it

I am not thinking of achieving anything other than to inform everyone else.

My friend didn't tell me blah blah blah. They were there. They were an eyewitness to the event. Actually I believe if you can find anyone from Egypt who was there and talk to them they would give you the same report. Call 1 christian crazy and maybe your right. Call a few hundred thousand muslims and christians crazy or imagining things and its a bit too much. There were plenty of muslims there along with christians and as I said, some were awestruck and some were attempting to find a light source or something similar to discredit it. If people who were actually there were unable to discredit something what makes it so easy for someone here about 3500 miles away to discredit it. What kind of light display can project on anything but a solid surface with a light intensity like that we've seen in the video? Muslims in greece can interpret it anyway they want, they weren't there just as all of us weren't there.

About the daylight apparition. The sun isn't in the ground for the top section of the cross to be blocked by the middle section of the cross. The sun is in the sky so surely it would be the top of the cross with a reflection and not the bottom of the cross. Again I doubt people can be fooled by a reflection. People aren't as stupid as you seem to think they are.

opinion guy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I am not thinking of achieving anything other than to inform everyone else.

My friend didn't tell me blah blah blah. They were there. They were an eyewitness to the event. Actually I believe if you can find anyone from Egypt who was there and talk to them they would give you the same report. Call 1 christian crazy and maybe your right. Call a few hundred thousand muslims and christians crazy or imagining things and its a bit too much. There were plenty of muslims there along with christians and as I said, some were awestruck and some were attempting to find a light source or something similar to discredit it. If people who were actually there were unable to discredit something what makes it so easy for someone here about 3500 miles away to discredit it. What kind of light display can project on anything but a solid surface with a light intensity like that we've seen in the video? Muslims in greece can interpret it anyway they want, they weren't there just as all of us weren't there.

Do you believe in UFO's ? Cause you can apply the exact same logic to ufo sightings.

About the daylight apparition. The sun isn't in the ground for the top section of the cross to be blocked by the middle section of the cross. The sun is in the sky so surely it would be the top of the cross with a reflection and not the bottom of the cross. Again I doubt people can be fooled by a reflection. People aren't as stupid as you seem to think they are.

No you misunderstand - I'm not saying the sun is blocked from hitting the cross - I'm saying the reflection is blocked from the top section of the cross to the camera. This is really, really REALLY obviously a reflection.

partyatmygaff

opinion guy wrote: »

Do you believe in UFO's ? Cause you can apply the exact same logic to ufo sightings.
UFO sightings aren't almost near ground level. UFO sightings don't have people swarming around attempting to discredit them. UFO sightings also don't generally appear to look like Mary and they generally don't appear over churches. They also generally aren't witnessed by a few hundred thousand and aren't as widely witnessed as this. People at ground level and people viewing from top floor apartment balconies reported witnessing the same thing, muslim and christian. Some have been attempting to say that it was done by lasers (Don't ask me how they got that idea....:D) and some are similarly claiming it was electrical phenomena. None have found any evidence of an artificial light source and they are people who actually live there, I doubt anyone from 3500 miles away can say that it came from an artificial light source when people who were actually there could not.

No you misunderstand - I'm not saying the sun is blocked from hitting the cross - I'm saying the reflection is blocked from the top section of the cross to the camera. This is really, really REALLY obviously a reflection.
Why would that be only point of reflection? Wouldn't the ends of the middle section also have a slight reflection? The material of the cross is not bare steel or chrome to have a reflection like that. In any case whoever is filming had anything but a steady hand. Like all reflections does it not appear to move or look different depending on what position it is being viewed from? The camera was moving but the figure was not.

Read the bold.

Stephentlig

Thank you for this, although it is proof that God exists, the ultimate proof is in the faith, we can deny what we see, or we can confirm what we see and believe it.

If science shows me a carbon dating machine that they made, then its up to me to put my faith in that machine that it works, although most people put their faith in this machine, they've been conditioned from society to beleive that science has all the answers and that scientists are clever and know all, but a funny thing my dad once said to me was, ''Son, you can be intelligently stupid''. lol

for me the only evidence that God exists is in the faith. I put my faith in God rather than the world.

thats all I'm gonna say in this thread, as its Christmas day, the Lords birthday and my birthday too, so I'm off to get some dinner and party.

God bless and have a merry Christmas.

lugha

partyatmygaff, may I ask what your opinion is on the recent reported sightings of Mary at Knock. There were some who were adamant that they saw something extraordinary.

Fighting Irish

lol

Fanny Cradock

Do try and be constructive, Fighting Irish. Surprise us all!

partyatmygaff

lugha wrote: »

partyatmygaff, may I ask what your opinion is on the recent reported sightings of Mary at Knock. There were some who were adamant that they saw something extraordinary.

I have no opinion on them but I have doubts that something like that can be predicted by a "Psychic". In any case, this has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Fighting Irish wrote: »

lol

Take your "lol" to after hours. No need to drag down the thread with posts like that.

TheMilkyPirate

It is interesting though.

opinion guy

Stephentlig wrote: »

although it is proof that God exists

How so ?

If science shows me a carbon dating machine that they made, then its up to me to put my faith in that machine that it works, although most people put their faith in this machine, they've been conditioned from society to beleive that science has all the answers and that scientists are clever and know all, but a funny thing my dad once said to me was, ''Son, you can be intelligently stupid''. lol

I actually agree with you the science involves its own version of faith. As does atheism. Thou with atheism the root problem is a misconception. Most atheists think that science explains why things happen. Is absolutely absolutely absolutely does not explain why things happen - it describes how things happen. The atheists usually miss that distinction and believe it explains the why (which is why the Dawkins type atheist is just as much a faith as any religion is).

for me the only evidence that God exists is in the faith. I put my faith in God rather than the world.

Think about what you just said thou. By its very definition faith is not evidence. Faith means to hold a belief in something in the abscene of evidence. Your statement doesn't make sense.

thats all I'm gonna say in this thread, as its Christmas day, the Lords birthday and my birthday too, so I'm off to get some dinner and party.

God bless and have a merry Christmas.

Happy Birthday!! Enjoy:D

lugha wrote: »

partyatmygaff, may I ask what your opinion is on the recent reported sightings of Mary at Knock. There were some who were adamant that they saw something extraordinary.

You know I had a very devout religion teacher at school. And at that time there were similar stories of sightings of Mary and moving statues and such and we asked him what his opinion was. His response, much to all of our shock, was "Well, if you stare at a statue long enough, you are eventually going to see it move for one reason or another...". I always remember that

lugha

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I have no opinion on them but I have doubts that something like that can be predicted by a "Psychic". In any case, this has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

I would agree with you that nothing much happened in Knock but quite a lot of people thought they did see something, just as 20+ years ago (if you remember!) many people professed that they saw holy statues moving. I would suggest that there is a tendency for folk to re-evaluate something they have seen (or not!) if those around them declare that they saw something, or if (as in Knock) they had an expectation that they might see something.