who will you vote for in the next elections ?,

Flamed Diving

zootroid wrote: »

Exactly. Richard Bruton Taoiseach and George Lee minister for finance.

I would prefer to have Bruton as Finance Minister, playing to his strengths. It's a far more influential role, anyway. Leave the speech-giving, baby-kissing, fist-shaking work to Kenny.

CityCentreMan

I would prefer to vote for anyone but FF but the PD's are gone and the alternatives are all pretty poor. I would like to vote for Obama!

Le King

I'll vote for anyone that's not FG, FF, Labour or Greens.

It's looking Independent's or SF.

Imagine Enda Kenny as Taoiseach, imagine Joan Burton, Leo Varadkar or Richard Bruton in Government... :mad:

I think Fianna Fail will get back into power. I think Brian Cowen is probably the worst leader in time but I wouldn't vote for anyone in FG, Labour or Greens.

I might close my eyes when I'm casting my vote.

Either way we are going to be left with an incompetent government.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

I'd expect no less from you Liam. A million pictures, that highlight work done for civil rights, political equality, homelessness, drug-awareness campaigns, suicide prevention campaigns - and that's all you could find.

Yeah, very balanced of you.

It's not up to me to be balanced. It's up to those looking to represent people to - er - represent them.

dlofnep wrote: »

Your cheap, condescending and predictable comments won't change that, and your response doesn't in anyway address what I said.

So it's cheap and condescending to disagree with giving two-fingers to law and order ? :rolleyes: I presume you'll suggest that my stance on Ahern and the child-abusers are "cheap and condescending" too ?

I mean, that would allow you to be equally wrong, but at least you'd be consistent.

Ahern and the bishops fvcked up, big-time; they did some good too, but they'll be judged mostly on the size of their fvck-ups.....

So quit the victimisation talk as if I was having a go.....I'd have replied similarly if someone went on about how great FF and Ahern are.....because through their actions they represent what I detest too....

EDIT : A similar argument to yours was made by a priest in Listowel about a rapist, saying "look at all the smaller good things that he did"......fortunately most of the public realised that that's irrelevant if you condone/commit/support serious crimes.

dlofnep

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's not up to me to be balanced. It's up to those looking to represent people to - er - represent them.

I didn't have an issue with you bringing up the point of Martin Ferris' meeting with Pearse McCauley and Kevin Walsh. I did however have an issue with what you decided to respond to with it. You completely overlooked a valid point I made in regards to the tireless campaigns for the most vulnerable people in society, such as homeless - where a SF TD slept rough on the streets of Dublin in the freezing cold to highlight it and offer solidarity. Instead, you used it to once again, as always have a cheap pop at Sinn Féin. There are many other people on this forum who don't like Sinn Féin - but they orchestrate their points in a mature manner, instead of using cheap pops with that condescending rolling eyes icon.

Have a good christmas.

dlofnep

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I don't think there is anything more I can add. I hope you learned something from the later analysis you ignored.

I asked you if there was anything specific you would like me to address. You haven't responded, so I can only assume you don't. As far as I'm concerned, it's done.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

You completely overlooked a valid point I made in regards to the tireless campaigns for the most vulnerable people in society, such as homeless - where a SF TD slept rough on the streets of Dublin in the freezing cold to highlight it and offer solidarity.

Offering solidarity with those who deserve it is one thing; offering it to murderers is another.

And one outweighs the other.

If SF want me to give them credit for the little things, they can stop doing the big ones.

Likewise with FF, who would need to stop bailing out bankers and white-collar criminals before I'll applaud their tiny gestures.

As for your view of "cheap shots"; I'd prefer to have my verbal ones than the ones that riddle people with bullets.

Look, SF can do whatever gestures they want to whomever. But they have to realise they will be judged accordingly.

And - like the rapist in Listowel - any community good that they might do is completely undermined by the larger, more objectionable actions.

If I helped an old lady across the street on my way to shooting someone, then I wouldn't be surprised if someone chose to ignore the first of those acts.

And pointing out the objectionable acts is not a "cheap pop"; it's a fact and a valid concern that no twisting is going to trivialise.

evercloserunion

Labour first preference, then probably independent and/or FF. Anyone but FG basically.

dsmythy

Fine Gael i suppose but really not much choice out there.

SLUSK

You could vote for the pirate party, but who cares about such little things as protecting your privacy online or letting private corporations blackmail you with a lawsuit over alleged software piracy?

Nehaxak

I'll be ripping up my polling card when it comes through the door as I have nobody I wish to vote for in Irish political circles and I can't be arsed bothering to go out and spoil my vote either.

As much as I detest FF, I detest FG even more. I see FG as nothing more than an over opinionated, loud mouth, incompetant bunch of rabble rousing right wing filth who will love nothing more than to get themselves into the golden circle of elitism again, and make more of a bollocks of the country than FF have while at the same time ignoring or just plain pissing all over the working classes, as always they have. They're an elitist right wing party who seem to have more than their fair share of supporters in the media who give them way too much media coverage than they deserve, or maybe that's the whole idea, make the public think FG are already elected before the election has even been called - gullible Paddies just lap it up as they always do and cast a vote their way in the belief that it would be otherwise wasted.

I think Labour are in with a decent shot this time around but it'll all be for nothing if they go into government with FG, which they're forever spinning intentions/rumours about so I'd class a vote for Labour as a wasted vote.

Green party - Don't even get me started on that shower of useless tree hugging fools.

Independents - Generally a wasted vote, would be better just spoiling your vote.

SF - Will never amount to much in the South until they change their politics and candidates down here that cater more toward people actually from the Republic - so it's a wasted vote, as much as I might align myself with some of their views and enjoy the honesty and integrity shown by most of their party when compared with any other in Ireland.

bijapos

I'll be voting Green. The best of a bad bunch, but the only ones who have formed any sort of long term vision of how this country should be run. I can barely afford new taxes but we do need a restructuring of the way taxes are generated, they are probably the only party to stand up and face into this. Their performance in government has been more than just disappointing, they should never have gone in with FF in the first place and have lost a lot of credibility with this decision but when I look at the alternatives then they still get my number 1.

I'm constantly surprised at the amount of people here who slate FF and then say intend to vote FG. They are essentially the same party. FG have been lamentable, Kenny doesn't help, but most of the time they oppose FF for the sake of opposing them and for no other reason.

A better indication is their pandering "opposition" to FF in the Dail, yet on county council level (certainly Dublin South and Dun Laoghrie Co Co. they have an appaling record of voting with FF on a huge range of decisions such as rezoning which are detrimental to local wishes.

George Lee has been a disappointment and is a perfect example to me of what they stand for, he contributed virtually nothing publically to the NAMA debate especially proposing any sort of valid alternative, yet when it's voted in he knocked it relentlessly.

FG rarely (if ever) said the economy was running out of control a few years ago and that it was too dependant on the construction industry, and today in a number of areas are simply taking on Green party policy. Sorry, but to me they are not a viable alternative to FF.

SF do a lot of good work at community level but they still have not cleared out the party of a certain element, (For me the example above of Martin Ferris picking up the McCabe killers still speaks volumes of that element that exists in the party). I would be close to giving SF in the locals a high preferance but in the Dail election they would be far down the list.

Labour would probably get my number 2 but personally to me they have to move away from the influence of the unions.

FF- Always have put them at the bottom of the list and will continue to do so.

ei.sdraob

bijapos wrote: »

I'll be voting Green. The best of a bad bunch, but the only ones who have formed any sort of long term vision of how this country should be run. I can barely afford new taxes but we do need a restructuring of the way taxes are generated, they are probably the only party to stand up and face into this. Their performance in government has been more than just disappointing, they should never have gone in with FF in the first place and have lost a lot of credibility with this decision but when I look at the alternatives then they still get my number 1.

i dont know about greens; heres my list against them:

* not bringing down FF in order to mantain own power at the cost of the country is downright slimy
* bringing in septic tank tax, instead of fining people ~5K they should make them put in proper treatment which costs about as much, neither am i happy that it seems to include proper treatment plants which are very eco friendly
* bringing in carbon tax, i completely oppose carbon taxes, since the whole carbon trading thing is a giant scam, an artificial/regulated market is a disaster waiting to happen. neither do i see any of this money going towards green projects
* im pissed of that their members seem to care more about foxes and other animals than people
* they approved NAMA
* i want to throw something at the TV everytime i hear Gormley speak. the guy is full of ****, and this whole "smart" economy craic is biggest load of hot air ever


im afraid for me the choice will have to be between FG and Lab, and there are aspects of both i dont like

View

Nehaxak wrote: »

I'll be ripping up my polling card when it comes through the door as I have nobody I wish to vote for in Irish political circles and I can't be arsed bothering to go out and spoil my vote either.

If you can't figure out which is your "favourite" party, start voting from the bottom up - give your last preferences to the candidate(s) from the worst party, your second last to the second worst and so on up the ballot. That way you might end up with the candidate(s) from the party which is "least worst" of the lot elected.

The method works better than you might expect. It is a lot easier to "Spot the G*bsh%te" than to figure out the "heroes".

irish_bob

keeping labour out of goverment is more important to me than getting fianna fail out so i have to think long and hard come next election, if enda kenny was replaced as leader , it would make my descision a whole lot easier , i believe thier is a huge number of people who want to vote fine gael but kenny makes them think twice , that fine gael have not moved to oust him suggests the party does not have what it takes

ghost_ie

I honestly don't know, except that it won't be either FF or the Greens. Can't bring myself to vote for a party led by Enda Kenny and I'm afraid Labour (who I've always supported) will go into coalition with FF. Guess it'll be Independents who get my vote this time around.

Eliot Rosewater

I think Enda Kenny remaining leader is a symptom of the same syndrome that has resulted in George Lee being hidden. Leaders of political parties dont want to be ousted. Lee was a huge liability to the stability of the party. If he was fully trumped as he should have been there would have been demands for him to be leader or minister for finance. As well as ticking off the leaders, this would also have annoyed the other TD's who would have felt their dedication over the years meant nothing.

To those who dislike Enda I say this: in a parliamentary democracy the office of Taoiseach isnt as relatively powerful as, say, the President of the US. If Bruton gets into Finance he will have a lot of liberty, and will be able to tackle some of the countries problems. Enda will be a talking box, but the substance will be there.


Disclaimer: I am not, never have been, and likely never will be, a member of Fine Gael. As View mentions, my support of them comes from a "least worst" method of voting.

fat__tony

The attitude towards Enda Kenny on this thread is quite pathetic, what do people want him to do? Behave like Bertie, become a purveyor of bluster and bull****?

Anyway with regards to the next election, anyone who votes for FF is basically endorsing the catastrophic mismanagement of our economy over the past 10 years. It's amazing the amount of narrow-minded, blinkered people out there who'd vote for a party for historical, family reasons.

Rural Ireland. :mad:

gerry28

fat__tony wrote: »

The attitude towards Enda Kenny on this thread is quite pathetic, what do people want him to do? Behave like Bertie, become a purveyor of bluster and bull****?

Anyway with regards to the next election, anyone who votes for FF is basically endorsing the catastrophic mismanagement of our economy over the past 10 years. It's amazing the amount of narrow-minded, blinkered people out there who'd vote for a party for historical, family reasons.

Rural Ireland. :mad:

And people need to remember that this FF government back tracked on the higher paid public servants paycuts because its many of them who the government deal directly with day to day.

Call it looking after your friends or afraid to upset them, either way its a farce. When they cut the low paid PS worker and cut the dole (with out considering the removal of the christmas bonus as a cut) but won't cut the own class/friends its maddening.

For the sake of any standards in the country they need to be out asap (and kept out).

evercloserunion

fat__tony wrote: »

The attitude towards Enda Kenny on this thread is quite pathetic, what do people want him to do? Behave like Bertie, become a purveyor of bluster and bull****?

Anyway with regards to the next election, anyone who votes for FF is basically endorsing the catastrophic mismanagement of our economy over the past 10 years. It's amazing the amount of narrow-minded, blinkered people out there who'd vote for a party for historical, family reasons.

And anyone who votes for FG? What are they endorsing?

Rural Ireland. :mad:

Yup, because nobody in Dublin voted for Fianna Fáil.

Amigomenor

They are all useless, most have failed in the real world so they take up politics to satisfy their egos.

Podman

We need a Government that won't bend over for bankers and big business.

It's all about money, it shouldn't be.

RiverWilde

I don't understand why people have such a problem with Enda Kenny.
He stands up in the Dail and says it like it is. Although the govt. parties make it difficult for him to do that when they decide to give themselves an extra week at home in front of the fire.

Maybe there are so many people in this country on the take the last thing they want are awkward questions.

Where are the resignations -without all the song and dance and handwringing and other nonsense - church and state - for the corruption and ineptitude that we've had over the past decade or three?

It seems like honesty/integrity and personal responsibility have long since been forgotten in politics and society. So long as that remains this country will forever be ruined by FF and it's cronies skillfully aiming the ship of state toward the nearest shoal.


Riv

ninty9er

Amigomenor wrote: »

They are all useless, most have failed in the real world so they take up politics to satisfy their egos.

Such as??

The Volt

Why can't we just have a society that looks after its' weak and its' vulnerable? Anyone fancy a renaissance ftw?

irish_bob

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I think Enda Kenny remaining leader is a symptom of the same syndrome that has resulted in George Lee being hidden. Leaders of political parties dont want to be ousted. Lee was a huge liability to the stability of the party. If he was fully trumped as he should have been there would have been demands for him to be leader or minister for finance. As well as ticking off the leaders, this would also have annoyed the other TD's who would have felt their dedication over the years meant nothing.

To those who dislike Enda I say this: in a parliamentary democracy the office of Taoiseach isnt as relatively powerful as, say, the President of the US. If Bruton gets into Finance he will have a lot of liberty, and will be able to tackle some of the countries problems. Enda will be a talking box, but the substance will be there.


Disclaimer: I am not, never have been, and likely never will be, a member of Fine Gael. As View mentions, my support of them comes from a "least worst" method of voting.

if fine gael play thier cards right , only one thing can stop them forming a goverment without labour , enda kenny , he is what is holding them back from the big breakthrough , the swing vote has entirely abandoned fianna fail and the swing vote won it for them in 2007 but a sizeable number of it sees kenny as a real turn off

TJJP

My prefered candidate.

irish_bob

Voltwad wrote: »

Why can't we just have a society that looks after its' weak and its' vulnerable? Anyone fancy a renaissance ftw?

people who say things like this must believe that it is possible for the state to ensure that every single citizen is categorically protected from whatever negative consequences may confront people , the reality is that thier is no mother that can protect you at all times and people have to be responsible for themselves for the most part , the ( so called vulnerable ) are extremley well looked after in this country , we have a phenomenolly generous wellfare state , it is only due to our left wing media ( i believe ) that so many have been conditioned into thinking otherwise , when the hard facts are looked at , no one could possible believe the less well off are not well supported

View

I have to confess to being surprised at the number of people who say they will vote for independents. Few, if any, independents stand for particular policies and/or have a chance of getting any implemented. As such, in effect, they aren't promising to do anything in particular.

Hence, I don't see any benefit in voting for them. Rather, I see it almost as an abdication of responsiblity by a voter - i.e. "I couldn't be bothered making a decision on which set of policies/party representing them is better, therefore I'll leave it up to the independent TD to decide it for me".

Independents have always struck me as fitting into the mould of "people who want to be (politicans)" rather than "people who want to do (something)".

CelticTiger*

Labour,

A left wing government is the kick up the arse this country needs.