Situation in the jackpot last night!

smoothcall · 24-12-2009 10:15pm

oldjude wrote: »

omg i for sure would not have felt guilty or given any $$ back.

Ruthless

smoothcall · 24-12-2009 10:17pm

Stupid rule, never liked it. Altough it's very rarely enforced. Fair play giving the loot back...

pkr_ennis · 24-12-2009 10:24pm

How can this happen? What a shocking rule! KITN's all around.

Jaysoose · 24-12-2009 11:15pm

OP is an angleshooting douche

Chucky the tree · 24-12-2009 11:23pm

Can someone explain how exactly OP is angleshooting? I suppose all the people in OP situation would have folded on the flop knowing well villain hand would be declared dead? :rolleyes:

Jaysoose · 24-12-2009 11:34pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Can someone explain how exactly OP is angleshooting? I suppose all the people in OP situation would have folded on the flop knowing well villain hand would be declared dead? :rolleyes:

ahem

“cool mate, you know your hand is mucked if that's what you actually have"

Hank Scorpio · 24-12-2009 11:50pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

ahem

“cool mate, you know your hand is mucked if that's what you actually have"

yah, nothing got to do with the villian pronouncing his hand over and over again ruining their poker game.

Chucky the tree · 24-12-2009 11:54pm

Jaysoose wrote: »

ahem

“cool mate, you know your hand is mucked if that's what you actually have"

So telling a player the rules is angleshooting?

Jaysoose · 25-12-2009 12:31am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So telling a player the rules is angleshooting?

Why didnt the op call the TD over after the villan declared his hand? as opposed to waiting till the hand was over = angleshooting.

Hmm i wonder.

Jaysoose · 25-12-2009 12:32am

nuxxx wrote: »

yah, nothing got to do with the villian pronouncing his hand over and over again ruining their poker game.

CALL THE TD.....or wait till the money was in the middle...i wonder.

NewApproach · 25-12-2009 12:56am

Rules are the rules, whether to take advantage and angleshoot is another thing entirely and I'm not going to get involved in that debate, but surely by deciding to play the hand the way the OP did (angleshoot), and then give some money back, is clearly a bit of a morality contradiction

ocallagh · 25-12-2009 1:00am

Jaysoose wrote: »

Why didnt the op call the TD over after the villan declared his hand? as opposed to waiting till the hand was over = angleshooting.

Hmm i wonder.

he might not have had K8

Jaysoose · 25-12-2009 1:06am

ocallagh wrote: »

he might not have had K8

In the context of ops explanation of the situation its obvious he did.

CHD · 25-12-2009 3:15am

All the people who call the OP a angleshooter would have done it themselves STFU you muppets.

Jam-Fly · 25-12-2009 3:46am

This is the first case I've heard of the rule actually being enforced and a player with the best hand losing the pot due to declaring his hand.

the 'no truth' rule is a ridiculous rule imo.

As far as a I know, in clubs/tournaments where the 'no truth' rule is implemented, a player is allowed say (assuming his hand is AA) "I probably have pocket aces", "I might have pocket aces", "It would be safe to say I have pocket aces" etc., but you (technically) cannot say "I have pocket aces". If you say "I have pocket aces", your hand is dead. You can say anything else you want in a HU pot apart from direct declaration of your hand.

Can anyone explain to me why the rule is there? This is not the rule of speech play, this is the specific rule of truthfully declaring your hand. So, if you're against speech play in it's entirety, that's fair enough, and I can see where you're coming from. But what I'm asking is, if speech play IS allowed, why on earth is declaring your hand not allowed but all other speech play is allowed?

a147pro · 25-12-2009 4:01am

kakak1 wrote: »

Wasn't this rule also used at the GJP Deep Stack tournament about 2 years ago & the organisers said they would never ever use it again as a player was actually set up..............he was asked when he put in a big bet "Do you have Aces" and he said he did. TD was then called & the other player asked if he called & the player did indeed have Aces would his hand be dead, was told it would & he duly called & the aces hand was declared dead.

the biggest rip off since christ got nailed to that cross what lowlife was responsible for this

kakak1 · 25-12-2009 12:58pm

CHD wrote: »

All the people who call the OP a angleshooter would have done it themselves STFU you muppets.

what a stupid statement

a-k-47 · 25-12-2009 2:14pm

a147pro wrote: »

the biggest rip off since christ got nailed to that cross what lowlife was responsible for this

ida killed the bastard

MegaSin · 25-12-2009 2:43pm

The drunk was told a number of times before the hand and during so tough ****.

Although the OP did use the rules to gain in a some what unfair manner. Drunk should take this as a lesson NOT to play drunk and listen while you are being warned.

CHD · 25-12-2009 3:12pm

kakak1 wrote: »

what a stupid statement

Your a stupid statement

scange01 · 25-12-2009 3:36pm

Why are people even on the OP's back?

The villain was being a drunken pr*ck, he was explained the rules, didn't listen. Why should the rule have to be explained to the villain time and time again!? Why should extra effort be made to appease him cos he's drunk? Imo, it's much different to the Aces situation as brought up on this thread, now that was well sly.

Them's the dangers of playing drunk...!

mdwexford · 25-12-2009 3:50pm

The rule is stupid, in a HU pot you should be allowed say whatever you like.

OP obv was angle shooting.

CHD · 25-12-2009 4:11pm

mdwexford wrote: »

The rule is stupid, in a HU pot you should be allowed say whatever you like.

OP obv was angle shooting.

3 way pot though

mdwexford · 25-12-2009 4:23pm

CHD wrote: »

3 way pot though

Yeah i dont think he should be announcing his hand here because it can influence what the 3rd player does but in a HU pot i dont see why you cant announce it.

I still wouldnt be calling the shove here in the OP's shoes in the hope the drunk guys hand gets killed.

keane2097 · 25-12-2009 4:45pm

Yeah the people laying into the OP are clearly ignoring the fact that the drunk was being a douchebag.

Having been informed of the rule several times by several people he continued with his against the rules behaviour.

How can he have any complaints?

Deliberate + repeated subversion of the rules + losing all your money = just comeuppance imo

TommyGunne · 25-12-2009 4:55pm

Angleshooting is abusing the rules to gain an unfair advantage, ie something that is technically within the rules but is wrong from the perspective of fairness.

In that light, we are definitely abusing a rule (that his hand will be killed if its as he said) to gain an advantage. Specifically when it is stated:

REKOP DOG wrote:

At this point I'm 99.99% sure he has k8 given he did this earlier a few times. So
what would have been a tough decision with k10 becomes completely irrelevant here. Now
matter what cards I show now I'm at least freerolling 150 euro as his cards will be dead. So
well aware of the inevitable car crash that was to come, I called

So we are definitely gaining an unfair advantage by exploiting the rules in an unfair way. In fairness, he had the best hand, and if you look at it in one light, you tricked him into losing all his money when he had the best hand when he was unaware that his hand would be dead.

Morally, its just not right. Its not poker. Its scamming a drunk person out of money. In my mind thats right beside fixed roulette wheels, dodgy where-the-lady at carnivals, and hoops that don't fit over the targets at ring-toss. If you feel like you fit in as a bent carnival worker then cool, but I wouldn't feel good with myself.

MegaSin · 25-12-2009 5:01pm

Yeah if no one told the drunk P***K the rules I would 100% agree with the poster above.

But by the sounds of it he was told a number of times by the player and the dealers. So I say tough **** to the drunk who now might learn to not be an arsehole.

(I also agree that the OP was angleshooting a tad but the drunk is in the worng more by far)

keane2097 · 25-12-2009 5:14pm

TommyGunne wrote: »

Angleshooting is abusing the rules to gain an unfair advantage, ie something that is technically within the rules but is wrong from the perspective of fairness.

In that light, we are definitely abusing a rule (that his hand will be killed if its as he said) to gain an advantage. Specifically when it is stated:

So we are definitely gaining an unfair advantage by exploiting the rules in an unfair way. In fairness, he had the best hand, and if you look at it in one light, you tricked him into losing all his money when he had the best hand when he was unaware that his hand would be dead.

Morally, its just not right. Its not poker. Its scamming a drunk person out of money. In my mind thats right beside fixed roulette wheels, dodgy where-the-lady at carnivals, and hoops that don't fit over the targets at ring-toss. If you feel like you fit in as a bent carnival worker then cool, but I wouldn't feel good with myself.

Are you not reading peoples' posts or just deliberately ignoring them?

The villain had the rules explained to him repeatedly.

"Scamming a drunk person" my hole :rolleyes:

RoadSweeper · 25-12-2009 5:23pm

He shouldn't be allowed play if he can't comprehend what is being said. If he was sober and declared his hand after repeated warnings do you think he would then argue his case?

I think the OP did what most people would do bar giving the loot back.

mdwexford · 25-12-2009 5:25pm

He was drunk and obviously not remembering what he was told or unable to comprehend what he was being told.

The OP purposely called with a worse hand in order to use a technicality to win the pot, this is at worst a form of cheating and at best shocking etiquette.

Most decent human beings would not try to win a pot this way.

Situation in the jackpot last night!

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