Soundproofing a Bedroom

SwdDub

Hows it going lads and ladies. I've been moved to sign up and become a first time poster here because of a serious sound issue with the neighbour

First off I live in an appartment, 3rd (top) floor and sharing a common bedroom wall with the adjoining appartment. Also the ensuite bathrooms share a common wall if that makes any difference.

Also, I have not been completely lazy and have looked up a number of sites and links about soundproofing. I have learned about structural noises and airborne noises. And I know its the airborne noises I want to deal with.

Now to the crux of the problem. First off tv and stereo as well as telephone conversations are audible if muffled somewhat even during daytime hours when the general sound of the world going by is at its peak. However, at night, when everything is quite you can hear them far more clearly. That in itself is a nuisance but I come to the main point now.

The lady who lives next door is in the habit of brining men back to her place at all hours of the morning (anywhere between 3-6am usually) for extremely noisy sex on a very regular basis. Lets say the problem is that the lady in question is extremely (I can't emphasise that enough) vocal during the act.
I'm not here to moralise or judge and all I can say is more power to her but I certainly don't have a problem with it but myself and my girlfriend also most certainly don't want to have to listen to it either.

The standard response from most I have told is to find this very titillating and crack a few jokes about it. However, I come on here hopeful of avoiding the usual smart arse quips as this is a real issue for me and my girlfriend. Yes we have sex on a regular basis too and I would imagine if the lady was at home she would have no problem hearing us either. I've no idea if the lady next door has any desire to be heard but we certainly do not.

The main problem for us is that this happens all days of the week. All weeks of the year. Being woken up by that kind of noise at 4am on a Tuesday when you have to get up at 6.30 for work is no fun I promise you. Its getting to be a detrement to both myself and my girlfriend now.

You'll forgive my long explanation but I thought it best to outline the entire problem because what few threads I could find on a simliar subject generally start with someone asking a question and then being asked 4 or 5 other questions by those who reply requiring them to give full details of the matter.

So, to get to the bottom line.

1) Would soundproofing effective in this case?
I've looked at various sites, Acousticfire being the best to my eye and read the stats and figures but I'm looking for real people to give me a heads up on if it works.

2) Is this process expensive?
I don't expect any of you to be able to give me anything like an exact quote and I know prices are bound to be variable but could someone please just give me a ballpark figure. Yes I could ring a company and ask for a quote but I'd rather have some idea of whats fair price before doing that. I really would appreciate a heads up on this as times are, for us all I'm sure, a bit tight on the money front so I'd like to know if this is even viable.

3) Is the process disruptive?
Obviously it's going to involve some serious work on the walls etc... but just how disruptive is it. I've seen quotes of 1 days work per room (it would be a single wall in this case) but is the fallout of this confined to just the next 2 or 3 days after or is it longer term.

Sorry for the long post but I really need to resolve this problem a.s.a.p and any advice on the matter would be a great help to me.

Cheers in advance

AckwelFoley

The only solution to this problem, and apologies for being somewhat blunt is to move out.

There are ways to almost completly soundproofing you from her but the problem is your apartment is going to look somewhat like recording studio.

I could give you solutions, such as fitting new partition walls and using said accoustic fiberglass, but you also i assume share a ceiling with which would also need to be insulated, all this is very disruptive.. ie move out, and can be expensive, and at the end of the day, wont entirely kill out the sound, it may dampen it down.

I understand this is very annoying and from the time and length of post you made its not an issue you are taking lightly, but im cautious in recommending solutions to you, that in my heart of hearts dont feel will greatly improve the situation relative to the amount of money you would need to spend

SwdDub

Many thanks for the reply.

I feared somewhat that this may be the case. I was afraid either a) it would be impossible to do or b) costs would be prohibitive.

To be perfectly honest moving out just isn't an option. So thats right out the window. Any process that is going to cost a ton of money is out the window too.

It is quite a predicament to be honest. I've tried talking to people about it but you get the usual 'clever' sex jokes and thats about it.

The problem, as I see it, and I'm going to be a bit blunt from this point on, is that I can't exactly ask the woman to stop having sex. I also can't go round and knock on her door and ask her not to enjoy sex as much and try not make as many sex noises.
I mean I don't care about her doing it, its a basic human right or whatever, but I can't stick listening to it any longer.

So my follow up questions for you are

1) Is it true you can get a 50% reduction in noise?
I've read on a couple of sites that you can as much as that knocked off. That would be something. My girlfriend is a heavier sleeper than I, and we both have resorted to wearing earplugs at night, so even that much would be a significant decrease.

2) Just how big a factor is the ceiling in all this?
It had occured to me that the sound would be just as likely to travel through the ceiling too but none of the sites really made much mention of this. Is it/can it be a really big factor?

3) What kind of costs are we talking here?
Say for this system
http://www.pickapro.ie/sound-proofing/Cunas/largephotobygallery/1/1/
which seems to be the most common one from what I can find. How much are we talking for this kind of thing?

Once again I'd appreciate any kind of reply because I am quite simply at my wits end.

To highlight the point that I need to explore every avenue open to me in this case a quick example.

The final straw that prompted this post came this morning when I made it home off a late shift at 3am roughly. I got into bed shattered from a long working day. Then at 5:50am my neighbour tumbled in the door and was at it until 8:30am and I was unable to get back to sleep. Lucky enough I'm on my christmas holidays now but this happens all to often when I have to be up for work the next day.

So again, I stress this is a serious issue for me, its not just some mildy funny sex related escapade that I can laugh off. It is actually starting to effect my quality of life due to such disturbed sleep/chronic tiredness.

So any advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated. I'm willing to explore any avenue in this so all (serious) opinions or advice would be welcome.

Thanks again

cnocbui

I would say the ceiling could be a major factor as the amount of material between you and the sound source is probably at a minimum via this route.

It is a pity Active Noise Cancellation is either too difficult to implement or is possibly a physical impossibility, as that might have been an ideal solution.

You could have a look into noise masking via a white noise generator, environmental sounds or perhaps with low level music.

SwdDub

Well I hadn't come across this active noise cancellation stuff myself. The headsets look to be reasonably enough priced. Although, it has to be said, it would be less than ideal having to go asleep wearing headphones every it would still be preferable to the alternative.

The dish systems, which I can't find a price for anywhere, would be more expensive and less directly effective I presume?

It is a pity Active Noise Cancellation is either too difficult to implement or is possibly a physical impossibility,

If you could expand on what you mean here I'd be most appreciative.

I will look into it but I don't think a white noise/low level music will do the trick much to be honest. On one occasion when my girlfriend was away and this problem arose in the middle of the night I sat up and turned on the tv to drown the noise out. I did manage to eventually muffle the sounds pretty satisfactorally but the tv volume was way, way up and this isn't an option when I'm not alone and also when I really need to sleep.

Just one other thing to bare in mind here lads. At this stage it doesn't have to be a total cancellation of the noise. To be honest, having had to put up for this for quite a length of time now I think any reduction even around the 50% mark would prove fantastic for us. Lets say what we put up with now is the neighbour functioning at full 10 volume. To be able to turn it down to a 5 or less would be fantastic at this stage

Cocoon

Not being smart or anything but heres a realy cheap solution to your problem.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Classic-Ear-Plugs-noise-reduction-snoring-50-pr-wrapped_W0QQitemZ370274578653QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_HealthCare_RL?hash=item563615b0dd

I have bags of these at home and use them all the time, only problem is you probably wont hear your alarm clock (phone on vibrate under the pillow sorts that)

SwdDub

As I said in the thread above I already wear earplugs to no effect. It muffles the noise a tiny bit but you still get most of the impact of whats going on regardless

Look at it this way. It seems her bed is pushed against our adjoining wall. Which means her bed is no more than a couple of feet away from ours. Throw some very thin (or at least lacking in sound resistance) walls into the mix and earplugs aren't going to be enough to do the job.

I'm hopefuly these active noise control headphones might be useful though. I'd like to hear more from someone who knows a bit more about them before shelling out a few hundred quid though

shellyb73

Hi SwdDub,
we completed soundproofing in our bedroom with a product called phonewell, you can review it on acara concepts website, It appears to have worked for airborne noise but not for impact noise, it has just muffled it a bit so we still hear slamming doors etc. If you would like a contact name to install please pm me, if you were handy enough yourself you could do it I think. I contacted thecompany you mentioned earlier and whie they were very knowledgeable the price put me off, approx 2k per room. we live in semi D.

How well do you know the woman?Would you consider writing her a note, a nice one and post thrpugh her door? She may then be mortified ( I know I would ) and do something about it. It may be worth a try, I sympathise with what you are going to but you shouldnt have to wear earplugs in your own home.

If you want any other info please let me know, good luck woth it

SwdDub

Yeah I tried a tactful attempt at approaching the woman about it as it was my very last throw of the dice. That avenue isn't going to work. I don't want to get into debating the woman herself or whats shes like but suffice to say that approach isn't going to cut the mustard and she was actually quite brazen about the whole thing.

items

I've sound proofed my old garage to stop sounds coming in, not going out. Air is the best way to stop sound transfer. A room within a room with an air gap all the way round is best. Might not work in your case.

Worked in a few factorys which had to keep sound levels down as a requirement to planning. To keep sound down all external walls were finished with a sound resilient metal channel, its designed to have minimum contact with an external surface, all to reduce transfer of sound. From the channel sound board was then fixed.

You could fix this channel to the offending walls, ceiling etc and then re slab room with sound board, you'll prob loose about 2" all around but might be enough to rid the sound from coming in.

SwdDub

Thanks for all the suggestions and keep them coming. However, bare in mind I have no expertise in any of these fields. I haven't a clue about most of the stuff being mentioned here.

A room within a room with an air gap? How does that work? Is it difficult? Whats the process? And importantly whats the cost? Are there any sites you can refer me to if you don't have the time to get into explaining it to me.

You could fix this channel to the offending walls, ceiling etc and then re slab room with sound board, you'll prob loose about 2" all around but might be enough to rid the sound from coming in.

Same questions apply to this.

Another thing, I couldn't give a monkeys about losing a few inches of space in the room so don't let that stop anyone from making a suggestion

I don't expect anything to be cheap but some of the stuff being suggested is highly expensive for a single room when effectiveness might be limited.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies and keep them coming. I'll be investigating all methods mentioned here. I'm very appreciative of all the help and suggestions and that the people on here took my post/predicament seriously which is a lot more than can be said for many people I know.

colsku

A fair bit off topic, but can you not contact somebody over it. For example, see the link below to a similar situation, where a woman was given an ASBO for making excessively loud during sex.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/wear/8413974.stm

Alternatively, can you discuss it with fellow residents. In my apartment building, if you are reported for making loud noise at unsociable hours you get an official warning from the residents. Three warnings in three years and you are compelled to leave the building. It may be very different for you, but something to look into at least.

SwdDub

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm hoping to not have to get into that. To be honest the noises aren't unnatural she just carries on like shes in a porn movie. I don't want to have to get into trying to sanction what the woman does. I'm all for having a good time as much as the next person. Its really not her fault the walls are paper thin and she seems very easy to please. Its just a bad combination for me.

Also, my management company is shocking. They have to be pestered over everything. But I guess it is a last resort route.

This is off topic, and i may well post somewhere more relevant if I can find the appropriate forum, but I'll ask here as well.

Does anyone know if I am entitled to know which appartments in my building are occupied by renters or owners. I own my place and I would have thought I was entiteld to know what the lay of the land was in my building. I'd imagine taking any action against someone else that owns their place may be a lot longer and drawn out than dealing with a renter who, you would assume, would be far easier to impose sanctions upon if nessecary

items

SwdDub wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm hoping to not have to get into that. To be honest the noises aren't unnatural she just carries on like shes in a porn movie. I don't want to have to get into trying to sanction what the woman does. I'm all for having a good time as much as the next person. Its really not her fault the walls are paper thin and she seems very easy to please. Its just a bad combination for me.

Also, my management company is shocking. They have to be pestered over everything. But I guess it is a last resort route.

This is off topic, and i may well post somewhere more relevant if I can find the appropriate forum, but I'll ask here as well.

Does anyone know if I am entitled to know which appartments in my building are occupied by renters or owners. I own my place and I would have thought I was entiteld to know what the lay of the land was in my building. I'd imagine taking any action against someone else that owns their place may be a lot longer and drawn out than dealing with a renter who, you would assume, would be far easier to impose sanctions upon if nessecary

I bought an apartment a while back, I asked my solicitor a similar question, he told me with apartments you only own the plaster on the walls and everything else inside if you can understand (apart from wiring plumbing etc).

Reason I mention this it highlights everything else is irrelevant to your purchase.

Your apartment should be separated by a fire wall, fire wall should be enough to reduce sound. Sounds of your post you might not have a fire wall. If you can hear them that well, what would happen if next door had a fire?

Might be worth looking into, building standards here are terrible. I've seen a case where an apartment complex was given a green light by planners, after it was built, after apartment's were sold, something came up over fire concerns, people had to move out, doors had to be changed and one apartment had to have a fire wall fitted.

SwdDub

Thats an interesting one about the firewall alright. I'll have a look at the plans and other documents I was given and see what I can find out. Is there any other way of working out if one has been installed?

As ludicrous as it sounds I really do wonder what kind of sound transfer 'regular sex' would have. As the thread has progressed its just dawned on me that the walls, while certainly substandard in noise diffusion, may not be that bad and that its more a combination of slighly under par walls and an off the charts neighbour.

While I have you Items, whats the cost of installing the metal channel you were talking about to the walls and ceiling and then reslabbing the room with soundboard? Ballpark figure will do fine.

Thanks again

items

SwdDub wrote: »

Thats an interesting one about the firewall alright. I'll have a look at the plans and other documents I was given and see what I can find out. Is there any other way of working out if one has been installed?

As ludicrous as it sounds I really do wonder what kind of sound transfer 'regular sex' would have. As the thread has progressed its just dawned on me that the walls, while certainly substandard in noise diffusion, may not be that bad and that its more a combination of slighly under par walls and an off the charts neighbour.

While I have you Items, whats the cost of installing the metal channel you were talking about to the walls and ceiling and then reslabbing the room with soundboard? Ballpark figure will do fine.

Thanks again

Fire walls are very obvious on building plans, the are constructed different than other walls, its like a double wall with a gap, heavily slabbed each side with fire rated plaster board. Its marked out differently than cavity walls, all depends on if you've got some kind of timber frame construction within the apartment complex. Block wall (party wall) is a different ballgame. Not sure what wall's you've got but sounds like you've got some timber framed. Its fairly detailed, if you can find the right plans, it will be all typed up stating all the regs to do with preventing fire.

Your walls should be constructed in a way that sound will not travel, your next door friend is not the only person in the world to be making loud noises while doing you know what. You defo have a problem that needs looking at. Noise is noise.

No idea on pricing, I got the channel to sound proof garage for free, bundles were left over after site was finished. I have a good contact in DPL so many prices are different than everyday people.

Its not mad money, metal studding costs less than wood so the channel cant be to dear, its much like metal studding only formed different to reduce the amount of contact while providing a good fixing. Finding the stuff might be a task, could be a special order, unless you find a supplier with some in stock. Look at whole sale fastener and fixing distributors, they tend to have it in stock, builder suppliers would prob have to order in, so cost will go up.

Fire rated plaster board will do same job, might be cheaper than sound board. Any plaster board which is high mass, more dense will do. Stuffing up channel with rockwool will also help.

Provided your rooms not massive, under a grand should do the trick, plastering might turn out to be most expensive if you can do all the rest, then you have to think about wiring, plumbing etc.

Never great at prices as I tend to do everything myself, sorry bout that.

TheBigRedDog

Hey, I'm not in such a situation but I'm a drummer who built and soundproofed my studio! you said originally that your problem is mostly airbourne. This is the easier part as all you have to do is create a sealed area of air between both rooms. Thats as easy as closing the door.

I found that most of the problems are not airbourne but structural. If you were to put a glass to a wall (not suggesting it in this case!) what you hear is the wall vibrating to the sound on the other side. This means that the wall is now effected.

This requires a lot more effort as its difficult to isolate one room from another except in the option of a room inside a room idea(floating rooms). This is done by basically fitting a shell of a smaller room inside the existing. The whole room is preferably sitting on rubber! I did it with plywood walls and acoustic treating materials but in your case and that of firewalls, it should be a separate blockwork wall. This insulates you with dense materials which are better for complete isolation.

Its a messy business but I use my studio a lot so I was worth it for me. I can't say the same for your situation. I planned the build from scratch. You need to retrofit the room which would be near impossible I'm afraid.

Ambersky

This is an old post of mine.
Having let a bit of time go by I have to say I am very satisfied with the results. I know your problem can cause a lot of laughs but I guess you have to live with it to fully appreciate how annoying it can be.
My neighbours were not that noisy usually but it was the little sounds like normal snoring that drove me crazy. I felt like we were in the room together and it made me very self concious too.
Now I dont even know if there is anyone sleeping in the room adjoining me.
Sometimes I think I hear the sound of shoes on floorboards but Im not sure if its from the adjoining room or the one not soundproofed next to me.
An important point is its not soundproofing its sound reduction. So maybe you would still be able to hear your screamer next door but at a much reduced volume. I should certainly make you feel like you cant be heard, or feel free to let go a bit more . without company.
If you choose to go this route the guy will come out to your place and tell you whether or not it would work in your situation. He dosent want to do work that dosent do the job and ruins his reputation.
If you can afford it, its worth it. Couldnt say if anyone cheaper does the job as effectively. Can only tell you what worked.
Also a good link here. http://supersoundproofing.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=f8j6opkmuo21961p3e958ji453&
Good section on some of the myths about soundproofing eg egg cartons etc that should be avoided.

Hi Im getting a bedroom done next week, actually, after years of thinking about it.
Ive looked through old posts and studied other sites specifically on sound proofing.
From what I can gather, if done incorrectly you can actually worsen the problem.
Now this is a job I wouldnt even consider doing myself so I was looking for someone I could trust.
I finally went with a guy who is an acoustic consultant and has 15years experience in surveying, fire protection and sound.
http://http://www.acoustifire.ie/index.php?home.php&MainFrame

I came across acoustifire on pick a pro as well. There were only two companies on that site doing soundproofing, both sounded good and I contacted both of them.
The other company took my number but did not phone me back on the night they said they would. I rang again the following day and was given a mobile number which wasnt answered and no on phoned me that night either.
When I rang acoustifire the owner of the company answered the phone and arranged to come out and have a look at the room and discuss what could be done, not only that he arrived on time.
I think that kind of attention is a sign of someone who means to do a good job.
The guy really sounded like he knew his stuff and the materials he is using appear to be first class.
Its a bit pricey though and they are charging me a bit extra for having to take down a built in wardrobe and putting it back up again. Its going to cost 1562. They have promised to have it all over in a day, which is brilliant and they are very discreet. The last thing you want is neighbours turning up their volume because you have paid for soundproofing. The rubbish is going to be left in bags which is hassle to get removed. I know its hassle for them too but it would be a nice finish to a job wouldnt it.
Cant say how it will turn out and I hope I have made the right decision.
I will post on this next week and keep you all informed. Fingers crossed.
Last edited by Ambersky; 01-05-2009 at 00:28

cnocbui

SwdDub wrote: »

If you could expand on what you mean here I'd be most appreciative.

ANC works by creating a sound waveform that is the exact opposite of the sound to be cancelled. A mirror image.

The problem is that you have sound travelling through air at high speed. The difficulty is getting the system to pick up the sound, calculate the inverse and generate it as a sound and have the original and negating sounds arrive at your ears at the exact same time. Which for for higher frequency sounds is very problematic due to the very short wavelengths. If you consider the sound could be both coming through the roof and partially through the wall, you can see there might be multiple paths of varying distance.

I think this is why nearly all ANC systems involve headphones where the time and distance factors can be controlled.

Sleep in another area of the apartment and convert the bedroom to another use?

soundlk

i've a problem with sound of passing trains, live in a two bed apart over duplex and apart is very close to train line. wonder what kind of soundproofing will help if any, might be a bigger problem than just an ajoining wall.
had one guy call out who thought that lining in attic under roof trusses might help. he never came back to give a quote etc despite much chasing.

would like to know how you get on

SwdDub

Very strange that this thread should pop up in my e-mail account tonight just as I was thinking about posting an update.

For those who helped me out from the start. I met with the main man from AcousticFire today. I have to say he was superb in his explanation of what the problem was/is, what he can and cannot do to help it and the pros and cons of the system.

Very friendly, forthright, honest and well informed I have to say. I've no doubt about availing of the service and now all I await is the next available date for the company to do their job.

Unfortunatley the neighbour has another conquest and has just bundled in the door (hence me posting at this hour) but I will grin and bare it for the next week or two with the knowledge that a solution is almost at hand. The proof of the pudding, of course, will be in the eating but I feel a hell of a lot better about the situation now than I did before.

Many thanks to you all on here for helping me out and fingers crossed everything turns out to plan! I shall keep you all informed

zziplex

Hi i see your sorting the problem but if it was me all i would do is double slab the wall. This is basically putting a 2x1 battons on the wall(this cavity drowns the sound) then counterslab onto the battons.

Also im not being smart or funny but is this woman just getting "alot" or is it possible that men are lets say using her services for a small fee? If thats the case you could go down the reporting route.

SwdDub

Hey thanks for the input. I'm happy to go the route I've currently chosen. I have no idea about slabbing, double slabbing or any kind of stuff like that so I'm happy to leave it in the experts hands!

I had thought of the slim chance that may be the case with the neighbour but, without going into too much detail, I've fairly much satisfied myself that it is not true in this instance. Like I said I'm not here to judge peoples lifestyle or anything like that. She can do as she pleases i just don't want to hear it

If I didn't think the problem would be sorted soon I'd be a lot worse than I am now at least there seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel now

soundlk

I would be delighted to find out how you are getting on. keep me posted.thanks

SwdDub

Latest update is that the work will be done next week. Quote of €1,300 for the job. Happy enough with that and eagerly awaiting the work being doing

bullvine

1300 seems very good, i'll be interested to hear how you get on also!

Red Sleeping Beauty

SwdDub wrote: »

Latest update is that the work will be done next week. Quote of €1,300 for the job. Happy enough with that and eagerly awaiting the work being doing

You could save the money and report the woman to the police/council. In the UK you get ASBOs for loud sex noises like that. That or you could key her car or sue her.

SwdDub

Thanks but police and councils are absolutely useless on any kind of noise pollution.

JohnnyCrash

http://wzeu.ask.com/r?t=p&d=eu&s=uk&c=a&l=dis&o=41627711&sv=0a65290b&ip=5cfbff11&id=F9E5D36FDEF8AAB4864F668FCCA1203B&q=noise+level+laws+in+ireland&p=1&qs=999&ac=23&g=7cd4quOTPqTOfJ&vc=3&ocq=0&ocp=0&ocu=0&ocf=0&qa1=118&en=te&io=0&ep=&eo=&b=a005&bc=&br=&tp=d&ec=1&pt=How%20To%20Deal%20With%20Noisy%20Neighbours&ex=tsrc%3Dtled&url=&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.askaboutireland.ie%2Freading-room%2Fenvironment-geography%2Fenvironmental-information%2Fnoise%2Fhow-to-deal-with-noisy-ne%2F

SwdDub

Again, thanks very much. However, unfortunately, in the real world things don't work as neatly, as amicably and in as perfect working order as suggested in that 'guide' to dealing with noisy neighbours

GreeBo

we have noise neightbours in our semid so while redecorating I stripped the parity wall down to the blocks, put a 3/4" plaster render on it (down under the floorboards) and put 2 sheets of 15mm sound block plasterboard on the wall. The sound is *much* more muffled in this room than the other room, so that room is next on the list.

The finished room is against the neighbours kids room and you can hear them less in here than in the further away unfinished room.
Bass noises are still audible, but they dont disturb half as much as talking/shouting/tv etc.

GL