[Letter] - DART station so dirty and grimy

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I decided to take the DART into town from Dun Laoghaire yesterday.

I had just missed a train and therefore had to wait 15 minutes. While I waited upstairs, I noticed how filthy the station was. Does it really have to be this dirty? A few years back, the station had a very expensive and impressive facelift but I don't think it has seen Mr or Mrs Clean since.

The floors were filthy; the ticket booth was filthy, with faded and worn-looking notices all shoddily stuck to the windows; the stairs and entrance were very grubby, as were the expensive mosaic tiles.

The only saving grace was that plenty of bins were provided -- and the contents are recycled, so credit due there at least. Sorry to have a go, but honestly the state of the station is dismal and very grim.

R Reynolds
Dun Laoghaire, Co Dublin

I have to say I agree, I think its partially that horrid yellow colour that gives that impression. Easy colour to get manky.
The fact thats its in a "hole" in the ground also doesn't help, make it feel more enclosed and you notice the state of it more.

They could knock down the wall between platform 2 and 3 to give a feeling of space but would lose the billboard spaces.

Dun Laoghaire being the historic station that it is there really should be more effort put into highlight and playing to this.

donvito99

Gotta agree.

Also, OT but, is it just me or have they been doing work to Salthill and Monkstown for years, and not accomplished anything?

Judgement Day

When the DART service was inaugurated back in 1984 CIE received all sorts of awards for the wonderful care taken over the railway architecture etc along the line. Today much of the DART line from Malahide, Howth to Greystones is best described as a disgusting mess. A grafitti artists playground and the stations themselves are permanently in a half-built state. The line passes through some of the most attractive scenery in the East of the country but it has been allowed by CIE, Fingal County Council etc to degenerate into a total shambles - Blackrock Park permanently covered in grafitti; Williamstown martello tower, Blackrock Baths ditto; the historic Cloncurry's Towers and bathing pavilion at Maretimo are defaced and half demolished in the case of the latter....I know that this is nothing to do with state of Dun Laoghaire station but it is symptomatic of CIE - a company that has run its course and thrown in the towel in the area of public standards of its properties as it has with everything else that it is involved in. I have repeatedly written to Dick Fearn about the state of the DART line, stations etc but his only interest appears to be in erradicating locomotive haulage and shedding operating staff throughout the railway - some legacy! :mad:

paulm17781

Judgement Day wrote: »

his only interest appears to be in erradicating locomotive haulage and shedding operating staff throughout the railway - some legacy! :mad:

If it'll make IE run better as a company. I'm 100% behind him.

leddpipe

Jesus wept.
If this is all you have to complain about, its well for ya!

Zoney

leddpipe:

Such seemingly less important things are symptoms of deeper problems in attitude and culture in this country that need attention and are indeed more serious.

Judgement Day

paulm17781 wrote: »

If it'll make IE run better as a company. I'm 100% behind him.

And can you explain precisely how it is making IE a better run company? If Dick Fearn took the axe to the vast clerical and managerial staff in IE something might be achieved. As for the elimination of loco haulage...life's too short to start listing the many problems this causes but the recent Monastervan brakedown is a good case in point.

markpb

paulm17781 wrote: »

If it'll make IE run better as a company. I'm 100% behind him.

If he sheds operating staff, I'd be behind him too. Nothing grows like a semi state company in Ireland with ridiculous rules about exactly which duties each staff member is allowed (by the union) to perform. The sooner those guys learn to be flexible and treat customers like customers the better.

dereko1969

Judgement Day wrote: »

Blackrock Park permanently covered in grafitti; Williamstown martello tower, Blackrock Baths ditto; the historic Cloncurry's Towers and bathing pavilion at Maretimo are defaced and half demolished in the case of the latter

how have any of these got anything to do with CIE or IE? and yes I realise I took out your reference to Fingal but you can't blame everything in the country on CIE much as would like to try.

dowlingm

What have been IE's problems recently?

Poor HR/rostering,
poor timetabling,
poor procurement policies
dishonest employee behaviour
poor engineering checks on the Northern line,
parking charges,
not to mention reconstruction of a line in a flood plain that flooded before it opened because of inadequate drainage of/grade adjustment of both the new and existing sections.

Oh yeah, and sometimes onboard and station staff acted like dicks.

Simply binning locohaul as a way of carrying passengers (except Mk4/Enterprise) will do damn all to properly restructure IE.

Judgement Day

dereko1969 wrote: »

how have any of these got anything to do with CIE or IE? and yes I realise I took out your reference to Fingal but you can't blame everything in the country on CIE much as would like to try.

Well if you knew the situation, which you clearly don't, you would not pose the question. The DART line acts as a corridor for grafitti artists and other vandals for its entire length. As well as railway company property such as stations, bridges, lineside walls which suffer, all the adjacent property - including private houses, schools, public parks, historic landmarks - are attacked too. While Fingal County Council share responsibility for not maintaining some of the items such as Blackrock Park, Williamstown martello tower etc. the conduit for much of this vandalism is the DART line. Basic security, apprehension of those responsible for the vandalism is not being pursued and, as I have pointed out to Mr.Fearn, it is a matter of time before some of those responsible are hit and killed by a train - especially in the cutting between Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove.
From a purely aesthetic point of view the entire DART line has been grossly disfigured and, to me anyway, is an embarrassment. What image of the 'Ireland of A Hundred Thousand Welcomes' must it conjure up to the many hundreds of thousands of foreign visitors who use the route every year. Penny wise and pound foolish is the way of CIE and it is obvious for anybody with half a brain!
As for blaming CIE for everything that is wrong with the country - where did I say that? I blame CIE, useless politicians and the Dept.of Transport for what is wrong in CIE; I blame Bord Failte, useless politicans etc for what is wrong with our tourism industry; I blame the Minister for Justice, useless politicians for a country teetering on the brink of anarachy; and in the main I blame useless, apathetic, handwringing 'nothing can be done about anything' people (include yourself here if you wish) for Ireland today. Enough said?

dereko1969

if you're talking FACTS then it's Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council not Fingal which covers much of North and North West County Dublin so get your facts straight.

Would you write to the NRA rather than the county councils if people were using a motorway to access walls where graffito was put up? I wouldn't think so, so again why blame IE? Their job is to make sure the line is safe, there are bridges over the line along that route and access from/to the rock road to enable everyone access to the coast, because people who paint graffito use them isn't a stick to beat everyone with and is a matter for the gardai not IE, it's also a much wider issue.

Judgement Day

dereko1969 wrote: »

if you're talking FACTS then it's Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council not Fingal which covers much of North and North West County Dublin so get your facts straight.

Would you write to the NRA rather than the county councils if people were using a motorway to access walls where graffito was put up? I wouldn't think so, so again why blame IE? Their job is to make sure the line is safe, there are bridges over the line along that route and access from/to the rock road to enable everyone access to the coast, because people who paint graffito use them isn't a stick to beat everyone with and is a matter for the gardai not IE, it's also a much wider issue.

Yes you're right on that point about County Councils but Fingal was just the one that was buzzing round in my head. And yes as a matter of fact I would write to ALL concerned parties about grafitti on motorway bridges. I also keep a regular check on Luas grafitti see link here: www.irishrailways.blogspot.com and am happy to report that unlike CIE the RPA/Veolia respond to complaints. I believe in action, not sitting about moaning - not that long ago I complained to the management at the Charlemont Hilton about grafitti on the hotel visible from the Luas - it was removed. I am not trying to blow my own trumpet here just pointing out the need to exercise a zero tolerance policy on the issue of vandalism. The bottom line is that CIE have massive safety/security issues with their rail lines and for years have been failing in this regard - do you have any answer to this rather than pulling up my mix-up regarding different local authorities? I no longer live in Dublin - in my day it was Dublin City Council and Dublin County Council so you will have to forgive my ignorance.

mikemac

dereko1969 wrote: »

if you're talking FACTS then it's Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council not Fingal which covers much of North and North West County Dublin so get your facts straight.

Pretty harsh, the OP did state

CIE, Fingal County Council etc

They don't need to list off every council. It was clear to me anyway

Cookie_Monster

dereko1969 wrote: »

if you're talking FACTS then it's Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council not Fingal which covers much of North and North West County Dublin so get your facts straight. .

Surely Dun Laoghaire-rathdown is south and east of Dublin rather than north?

mikemac

Maybe but dereko1969 did post FACTS.
Once you post that or FACT then you cannot argue with the post

But yes, Dublin City Council divide Fingal and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown along the east coast

paulm17781

dowlingm wrote: »

Simply binning locohaul as a way of carrying passengers (except Mk4/Enterprise) will do damn all to properly restructure IE.

You sure about that? What is their reason for being so determined to bin locos? I suspect it is more than to annoy fans. Lower running costs? Lower maintenance? More reliable (on paper)?

If any of them are the reason, it will definitely help to sort out IE. Not an overnight fix by any means but it could be an important cost saving measure.

Judgement Day

paulm17781 wrote: »

You sure about that? What is their reason for being so determined to bin locos? I suspect it is more than to annoy fans. Lower running costs? Lower maintenance? More reliable (on paper)?

If any of them are the reason, it will definitely help to sort out IE. Not an overnight fix by any means but it could be an important cost saving measure.

You just don't get it do you? The same morons who ordered the 201s and Mk4s are now pursuing a policy which involves getting rid of the the 201s and Mk4s. It will take more than cost cutting measures to sort out the malaise in CIE. The company has been trying to cut costs since 1950 (closure of narrow gauge lines; then closure of branchlines; then closure of secondary routes (Nth.Kerry; West Cork); then closure of non-radial routes (Waterford/Mallow); gradual withdrawal from rail freight; ending of Fastrack...and look where it has led. The railway is a total irrelevant shambles offering little to anybody and has undermined the case for retaining any railway outside the Greater Dublin area.

paulm17781

Judgement Day wrote: »

offering little to anybody and has undermined the case for retaining any railway outside the Greater Dublin area.

Which is, sadly, because it is the only profitable part.

Everyone knows CIE is a shambles, binning loco haulage neither adds nor takes away from this fact. However, perhaps there is a reason they're doing it...

Judgement Day

paulm17781 wrote: »

Which is, sadly, because it is the only profitable part.

Everyone knows CIE is a shambles, binning loco haulage neither adds nor takes away from this fact. However, perhaps there is a reason they're doing it...

Now I could be wrong but as far as I know commuter rail systems lose vast amounts of money so the DART/Arrow etc are major loss makers and can in no way be considered profitable. Perhaps somebody has some figures?

paulm17781

Judgement Day wrote: »

Now I could be wrong but as far as I know commuter rail systems lose vast amounts of money so the DART/Arrow etc are major loss makers and can in no way be considered profitable. Perhaps somebody has some figures?

I don't have figures, my understanding is that the DART would be profitable if it were not for the debt. Not sure about commuter lines. I would be certain the commuter lines would be more profitable (less loss making) than anything else on the network.

Judgement Day

As far as I remember from my time as a serious student of rail transport it is the huge quantity of rolling stock, train crews etc that are needed to provide a commuter service that cause it too lose large sums of money. There are two peak surges during the day - going to work and returning - the rest of the day is 'relatively' quiet but the rolling stock (especially in the case of the DART) cannot be used elsewhere.

dowlingm

paulm17781 wrote: »

You sure about that? What is their reason for being so determined to bin locos? I suspect it is more than to annoy fans. Lower running costs? Lower maintenance? More reliable (on paper)?

If any of them are the reason, it will definitely help to sort out IE. Not an overnight fix by any means but it could be an important cost saving measure.

The local suburban railway where I live is loco+doubledeck pushpull trailers. Not only is it locohaul, the newer locomotives are 4000hp + a separate headend power unit for a total seat count of about 1800+standees. The older F59PHs (3000hp) use the same V12 engine family as the IE 201 class (EMD710).

The system, which includes bus feeder/lateral routes, recovers 80-90% of operating costs. They don't employ the train drivers - Bombardier has the contract for most and Canadian Pacific employ the drivers on services on CP track. Montreal's AMT service also uses locos as well as a few electric multiple units. Locohaul is not inimical to successful operation of a commuter service, but it does have limitations (such as wheelslip because of the lower number of powered axles)

What matters is how the system is operated - the equipment will just get you the last 10%. All of the points I mentioned in the post above are fully independent of the type of equipment used. Would it be great if we could simply go out and solve our problems by new equipment? Yes! But there's no money for that, especially given the impending need to order a boatload of DARTs for Maynooth and Hazelhatch, so you have to start looking at the rolling stock you have and seeing if there's a penny more that can be squeezed out of them.

Separating IE into a Train Operating Company and an Infrastructure Company, like Eirgrid and ESB Generation were, would be a start (and compliant with EU directives) because each of the two would then be less likely to accept the failings of the other. The true cost of network operation would be revealed since it would be harder to bury losses from poor track maintenance or stolen sleepers and blame them on service issues (for example).