Advice needed - bad international cheque

pandapatrol

Hi I have a matter that I need urgent help with. On Monday the 30th of November I received a cheque for 3600 euro from Holland and lodged it that day in Bank of Ireland. This cheque was payment for a car. I asked the lady in the bank when would the cheque have cleared through the bank so I could withdraw. She informed me that the cheque would be fully cleared Monday the 7th of December and I could withdraw from then onwards. On Tuesday the 8th I entered the premises and asked had the cheque cleared. I was informed it had fully cleared and I then withdrew the 3550 from the bank. On the 14th of December I received a call from Bank of Ireland to say that in fact the cheque had not cleared and they want their money back. Now the money is gone and I simply don't have that sort of cash to repay them. I have been a victim of fraud. Surely I have grounds to defend myself once the employee working in BOI informed me that the cheque had fully cleared on the 8th. I would appreciate advice urgently if possible as I am really worried. I have been to the Gardai to report the fraud and they informed me that they feel Bank of Ireland have acted in an improper fashion.

WicklowRover

Ok, PandaPatrol, first things first.

If you are ever selling anything of value, ensure the buyer pays by CASH or by BANK DRAFT. Never, ever, ever accept a personal cheque from a stranger, as there are no guarantees that the cheque will clear.

I presume this Dutch Euro cheque was drawn from a Dutch bank? Either way, it doesn't matter. BOI have screwed up here, big time. They cleared the cheque - proof being that you were able to withdraw the funds of said cheque. The fact that the bank subsequently contacted you and said that the cheque had not cleared is their fault. Not yours. I would go into your own branch, demand to speak to the manager, and tell him that you demand that BOI sort out this issue.

On another point, was the original cheque returned to you? If so, I would try and make contact with the bank and branch in Holland, and speak to the manager there, explaining that the customer in question purchased a car from you, and wrote a dud cheque. As far as I know, it is an offence to write a personal cheque, knowing that it will not clear.

In terms of Bank of Ireland, don't lose any sleep over this - all banks in Ireland are crooked bastards anyway.

BuffyBot

Indeed, shutting the door after the horse has bolted comes to mind here, but as said (and this may be warning for others), never take a personal cheque for a purchase of this magnitude.

A cheque being cleared doesn't actually mean everything is AOK - especially with cheques from abroad. Things can come back a long time later and bite you in the ass. From BOI's point of view, they cheque may have initially cleared - but when it got back to the Dutch bank, it could have bounced higher than who knows what. BOI (nor any bank) have some kind of all seeing eye that allows them to ensure everything is as it should be on the cheque issuers side.

When a problem does occur, unfortunately, it does come back to them and they've got hit for it - and of course, their first port of call is to come to you to try and retrieve the funds.

You've done the right thing (Gardai etc), but I'd imagine realistically that there is little chance of the car being recovered I'd imagine. Your next step is to go in and arrange a meeting with someone in branch (management etc) and see what arrangment can be come to. I'm sure some of our resident BOI'ers might give you some further information on that front.

All the indignation in the world won't help: the simple fact is that cheque payments are inherently risky. Especially the transaction you took part in. Both you and BOI have got stung, and you will have to hammer out some sort of agreement with them about how to proceed from here on in.

In terms of Bank of Ireland, don't lose any sleep over this - all banks in Ireland are crooked bastards anyway.

WicklowRover - you've heard of the saying "if you don't have anything good to say, say nothing" right? That's not constructive, nor helpful (unlike the rest of your post)

Toots

The Gardai shouldn't have told you that BOI acted in an improper fashion, as it's not their place to make that call. The cashier should, however, have informed you that while you are able to withdraw the proceeds of a foreign cheque 7 days after lodgement, it may take up to 4 weeks to clear fully. In my branch we have a stamp with this printed on it, which is applied to the back of the cheque and the customer then signs underneath it, to confirm that this has been explained to them, and that they understand this. I'm not sure if this is a practice that all branches use, or if it's just us. Was there a stamp such as this on the cheque you lodged OP?

Your best course of action now is to call the branch, and arrange to meet the customer service manager. I wouldn't say BOI are 100% at fault here, and neither are you, so as Buffybot says, there'll have to be some sort of arrangement made. Do you mind me asking, have you already been in contact with BOI customer care about this? It sounds very very similar to a case in a branch near me, that I was asked about recently.