Extremist Muslims in Britain and elsewhere

legal-eagle

This has gone so completely off topic..I'm talking specifically about young guys in Britain who are happy to live their and enjoy all the democratic freedom it provides yet proclaim their hatred of the west and non-muslims!

So if their so unhappy and against our culture why not take a hike to Iran or Saudi Arabia and perform their honour killings amongst friends?

Please stick to the topic, the Iraq war or Palestine does not come into this just like Huga Chavez's Venezeula doesn't matter to our Catholic state.

Zambia

dsmythy wrote: »

The entire thread is directed at extremist muslims. Not once were the lines blurred between them and non-extreme Muslims so i don't quite know why you both bring that line up.

You cant have extremist Muslims without Muslims.

However in my post I never mentioned standard Muslims only those who would try and impose non western values on western cultures.

FlutterinBantam

legal-eagle wrote: »

This has gone so completely off topic..I'm talking specifically about young guys in Britain who are happy to live their and enjoy all the democratic freedom it provides yet proclaim their hatred of the west and non-muslims!

So if their so unhappy and against our culture why not take a hike to Iran or Saudi Arabia and perform their honour killings amongst friends?

Please stick to the topic, the Iraq war or Palestine does not come into this just like Huga Chavez's Venezeula doesn't matter to our Catholic state.

Lot of those types around here as well eagle, I often wonder why the fook they don't head off to these places they 'care' so much about .

I think there is a word for it, something like 'reverse hypocracy' or something like those geezers who inhabited the Glen of the Downs when the motorway was being built.

Where are they now?

probably up some godforsaken tree in Tara/Bognor Regis save our shoreline/ Chipping Norton bypass defense/ ....insert 'cause' here.

OldJay

dsmythy wrote: »

The entire thread is directed at extremist muslims. Not once were the lines blurred between them and non-extreme Muslims so i don't quite know why you both bring that line up.

Firstly because its a Politics forum and secondly because the "lines" have in fact been blurred as per usual.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Lot of those types around here as well eagle, I often wonder why the fook they don't head off to these places they 'care' so much about .

...yet here you are, commenting yourself...and not for the first time.

dsmythy

Justind wrote: »

Firstly because its a Politics forum and secondly because the "lines" have in fact been blurred as per usual.

I don't see where that has happened here. Either way through Dresden, Hiroshima and the Crusades i think the OP somehow got some sort of answer to his question.

aurelius79

legal-eagle wrote: »

This has gone so completely off topic..I'm talking specifically about young guys in Britain who are happy to live their and enjoy all the democratic freedom it provides yet proclaim their hatred of the west and non-muslims!

So if their so unhappy and against our culture why not take a hike to Iran or Saudi Arabia and perform their honour killings amongst friends?

Please stick to the topic, the Iraq war or Palestine does not come into this just like Huga Chavez's Venezeula doesn't matter to our Catholic state.

And there are young people in Ireland who are happy to live their and enjoy all the democratic freedom it provides yet proclaim their hatred of Fianna Fail and RTE or whatever else people hate in this country!

I think you're being incredibly hypocritical, especially after reading your threads on single mothers and other social welfare recipients. If you hate the Irish welfare system so much, feel free to go elsewhere.

The fact is, many Muslims in western countries have seen their ancestral homes destroyed by the West. Why shouldn't they speak out against it? If the U.S. invaded Ireland and completely destroyed Dublin, Galway, and Cork would you condemn Irish Americans for speaking out against the U.S.? No, of course you wouldn't.

FlutterinBantam

aurelius79 wrote: »

I think you're being incredibly hypocritical, especially after reading your threads on single mothers and other social welfare recipients. If you hate the Irish welfare system so much, feel free to go elsewhere.

The fact, is many Muslims in western countries have seen their ancestral homes destroyed by the West. Why shouldn't they speak out against it? If the U.S. invaded Ireland and completely destroyed Dublin, Galway, and Cork would you condemn Irish Americans for speaking out against the U.S.? No, of course you wouldn't.

"If you hate the Irish welfare system so much ,feel free to go elsewhere"!

What kind of 'logic' is that, friend??

I'm only funding the system all my frikken life, so I have a right to critisise!!!

junder

if militant Islam is a product of the west oppression of Muslim countrys why is Saudi Arabia such a hot bed of islamic militant activity. why does a rich Nigerian try and blow up a plane? how was he opressed?

irish_bob

Terrontress wrote: »

Because if you take the likes of the tube bombers, they were born and bred in England so there is a very real similarity. As I said, if the majority of Ireland, UK or anywhere chose to have a peaceful, islamic republic then I'd have no issue with that.

you have no issue with the bringing about of an islamic society , the words , chamberlain and roll over spring to mind

Kit1976

legal-eagle wrote: »

Seriously, I have a query as to why these people who despise everything about the western world and have no intention of adapting to the culture of their host country don't go and live in a strict muslim country?

I say this after I was chatting with a friend of mine who lives in London and had recently seen a leaflet about the "The Magnificent 19" which was basically a homage to the 19 terrorists involved in the September 11 attack.

Do these people not strike you as hypocrites? All big Muslim firebrands and fundamentalists should go live in their little caves in Helmund province and have no music, TV or education for women if you ask me.

And no I'm not racist or anti-muslim so lets not play that card, Its a valid discussion.

I'm always fascinated by how racists can never spell, punctuate or form sentences, even when they're pretending to work in law, where you need a basic level of literacy. A general tip would be, if you're letting on that you have a base level of education to justify your sub-Daily Mail rants, brush up on the old grammar.

To be honest, it's not really up to you to decide where people who have a certain point of view shall live, or how they shall live. You might think handing out a leaflet with some points of view on it is hypocritical, but as your in-depth legal training will no doubt have covered, being a hypocrite is not against the law. Many of the people responsible for producing and handing out those leaflets in London (assuming they actually exist, again, your legal training will make you extremely wary of hearsay) will have been British born. Why should they live in Afghanistan if they are British?

aurelius79

junder wrote: »

if militant Islam is a product of the west oppression of Muslim countrys why is Saudi Arabia such a hot bed of islamic militant activity. why does a rich Nigerian try and blow up a plane? how was he opressed?

I think you're missing the point. Extremists, no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc. are all sociopaths. They do these things because they are sociopaths, not because of what religion they are. Religion is just an easy "excuse" for the things they do and say.

junder

aurelius79 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Extremists, no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc. are all sociopaths. They do these things because they are sociopaths, not because of what religion they are. Religion is just an easy "excuse" for the things they do and say.

I was just responding to what appeared to be tacit justification of the way some islamic fundamentalists behave.

BlaasForRafa

aurelius79 wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Extremists, no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc. are all sociopaths. They do these things because they are sociopaths, not because of what religion they are. Religion is just an easy "excuse" for the things they do and say.

Possibly, but there seems to be a lot more Islamic sociopaths these days. Perhaps it is something in the way the religion is being promoted and taught in some parts of the world has led to this upsurge. I can't think of any current christian equivalent to the radical Madrassas in Pakistan for example

dsmythy

Kit1976 wrote: »

. Why should they live in Afghanistan if they are British?

Maybe because they are unhappy. The extremists that is, who wish to bring their form of Islamic law through any means possible. The target of the OP who didn't show any antipathy to peaceful non-murdering Muslims. Of course you wanted to throw 'racist' in there so well done you've acheived it thus devaluing your post to me which otherwise makes a fair point.

Rossibaby

legal-eagle wrote: »

Seriously, I have a query as to why these people who despise everything about the western world and have no intention of adapting to the culture of their host country don't go and live in a strict muslim country?

I say this after I was chatting with a friend of mine who lives in London and had recently seen a leaflet about the "The Magnificent 19" which was basically a homage to the 19 terrorists involved in the September 11 attack.

Do these people not strike you as hypocrites? All big Muslim firebrands and fundamentalists should go live in their little caves in Helmund province and have no music, TV or education for women if you ask me.

And no I'm not racist or anti-muslim so lets not play that card, Its a valid discussion.

Yes, you are. Might have something to do with telling them to go and live in a cave, but whatever floats your boat.

'adapting to the culture of the host country', what muck is this? And what is wrong with a multi-cultural society?

And god forbid they don't watch tv:rolleyes:

Oh and btw, maybe you wouldn't be ****ting yourself at the prospect of a Muslim extremist attack if America and Britain took your advice and stayed out of Afghanistan!

dsmythy

Rossibaby wrote: »

Yes, you are. Might have something to do with telling them to go and live in a cave, but whatever floats your boat.

'adapting to the culture of the host country', what muck is this? And what is wrong with a multi-cultural society?

And god forbid they don't watch tv:rolleyes:

Oh and btw, maybe you wouldn't be ****ting yourself at the prospect of a Muslim extremist attack if America and Britain took your advice and stayed out of Afghanistan!

So you don't think those who advocate blowing up innocent civilians as primary targets really should crawl under some rock and go away? The extremists that this thread is on about?

Having reservations about multicultural dogma does not equal racism unlike reservations about the colour of people's skin.

pablomakaveli

Kit1976 wrote: »

Why should they live in Afghanistan if they are British?

Just because they are born there does'nt mean they have an automatic love or sense of loyalty to the country. A lot of these extremists hate Britain and the British way of life. If someone develops a hatred of the place they reside in they should move to somewhere that better suits them. In this case the extremist muslims in Britian moving away from Britian to somewhere more suitable.

Rossibaby

dsmythy wrote: »

So you don't think those who advocate blowing up innocent civilians as primary targets really should crawl under some rock and go away? The extremists that this thread is on about?

Having reservations about multicultural dogma does not equal racism unlike reservations about the colour of people's skin.

I think that if it wasn't for America these extremists wouldn't need to be cast away under some rock.

Rossibaby

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Just because they are born there does'nt mean they have an automatic love or sense of loyalty to the country. A lot of these extremists hate Britain and the British way of life. If someone develops a hatred of the place they reside in they should move to somewhere that better suits them. In this case the extremist muslims in Britian moving away from Britian to somewhere more suitable.

Sometimes people don't have the opportunity to move to somewhere that would suit them better, thats a foolish remark really.

Surely the best course of action would be to try and influence people to your line of thinking through democratic means and change the country in which you reside for the better?

dsmythy

Rossibaby wrote: »

I think that if it wasn't for America these extremists wouldn't need to be cast away under some rock.

I agree. It doesn't justify them though. You should be less worried by "racists" such as our OP and more worried by sectarian extremist Muslims in a global sense.

pablomakaveli

Rossibaby wrote: »

Sometimes people don't have the opportunity to move to somewhere that would suit them better, thats a foolish remark really.

And your remark is more foolish when you consider a lot of the muslims in britian are recent or descended from recent (i.e the last 50 years) immigrants to that country. If there families could afford to move to Britian then surely the extremist muslims could afford to move back.

Rossibaby

pablomakaveli wrote: »

And your remark is more foolish when you consider a lot of the muslims in britian are recent or descended from recent (i.e the last 50 years) immigrants to that country. If there families could afford to move to Britian then surely the extremist muslims could afford to move back.

What about slaves in America, they didn't like their country, should they just up sticks and go back to Africa? Well guess what, they didnt have the option. Perhaps they should try to organise themselves to fight the repressive system they found themselves under? Crazy idea I know.

And your point in the above quoted post is based on a generalisation, what about those who couldn't afford to move? 'Points' like that based on assumptions aren't worth a thing.

Dotsie~tmp

This is perverse. Muslims come to western nations, declare they want to turn them into the miserable backward nations they come from by bloody mindless violence against innocent men women and children. Reaction? Fuzzy headed fools dedending their right to express themselves! Give parity to cultures that are that are anything but equal.

We are so tolerent now its damaging us. The greatest danger are those that would enable extremeists. PC lefty scum who smugly lay our freedom down. Congratulating each other on how enlightened they are. Look at the brave young people of Iran. They know the score. The western way (shapless and undefineable as it is) will win out the day. Its not perfect but its streets ahead of anything else on offer. If you dont like it p*ss off. Irish included.

Rossibaby

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

This is perverse. Muslims come to western nations, declare they want to turn them into the miserable backward nations they come from by bloody mindless violence against innocent men women and children. Reaction? Fuzzy headed fools dedending their right to express themselves! Give parity to cultures that are that are anything but equal.

We are so tolerent now its damaging us. The greatest danger are those that would enable extremeists. PC lefty scum who smugly lay our freedom down. Congratulating each other on how enlightened they are. Look at the brave young people of Iran. They know the score. The western way (shapless and undefineable as it is) will win out the day. Its not perfect but its streets ahead of anything else on offer. If you dont like it p*ss off. Irish included.

LOL

belge boy

why dont irish in britain go home a lot of them have no interest in becoming english. my parents are irish but they brought me up to be a proud belgian.

double standards.

legal-eagle

I'm really annoyed at some of the replies here, eh please don't make me out to be some sort of BNP nut.

I'm making a very valid point, If I were to go to Saudi Arabia (USA's Business partners and close allies) and kick up about lack of freedom of speech or my right to pray in a Catholic Church (As it happens I'm Agnostic) I would be booted out double quick with minimal fuss.

Now turn the situation around to a Muslim in Britain, Ireland or any Democratic Western Nation with the same ideals. What happens?

And just to add I've been very specific about who I am refering to, also I would like to add I have a deep sympathy to Palestinian people and their right to have a State of their own and have many Muslim friends and Hindu Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant etc fot that matter. I do not define myslef or anybody else by their Religon unless it is extreme or poisonous.

Rossibaby

legal-eagle wrote: »

I'm really annoyed at some of the replies here, eh please don't make me out to be some sort of BNP nut.

I'm making a very valid point, If I were to go to Saudi Arabia (USA's Business partners and close allies) and kick up about lack of freedom of speech or my right to pray in a Catholic Church (As it happens I'm Agnostic) I would be booted out double quick with minimal fuss.

Now turn the situation around to a Muslim in Britain, Ireland or any Democratic Western Nation with the same ideals. What happens?

And just to add I've been very specific about who I am refering to, also I would like to add I have a deep sympathy to Palestinian people and their right to have a State of their own and have many Muslim friends and Hindu Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant etc fot that matter. I do not define myslef or anybody else by their Religon unless it is extreme or poisonous.

Saudi Arabia is a disgrace, why would we possibly derive our own standards from there? Why compare ourselfs to a land ruled by reactionary and religious zealots which encompasses great human rights abuses and backward outlooks toward the role of women in society and towards gay rights? It says alot that you think we should behave in Ireland more like Saudi Arabia:o

Rossibaby

belge boy wrote: »

why dont irish in britain go home a lot of them have no interest in becoming english. my parents are irish but they brought me up to be a proud belgian.

double standards.

Well because when did so-called Irish terrorists ever bomb Britain, or even 10 downing street?Oh wait:D

Must be ok with the Irish in Britain to preserve our culture and identity there for some, we are white and speak english after all:rolleyes:

legal-eagle

Rossibaby, you're too intelligent for me pal (And everyone else). Its good to see you have all the answers there buddy. Good Job but unfortunately most people I reckon would disagree with your sentiments (which is probably why you hold those views).

As an aside what part of society would be most racist in Ireland and the UK do you think?