Mains cold water seems to have frozen :S

Xcellor

Came down stairs this morning to find that the cold water tap was not working. Nothing, not even a trickle. Its been like that all day. We have had fairly consistent cold weather throughout the last few days, -5 even through the day. The cold water has been in fairly constant use but obviously not during the night... Today the temp is closer to 0.

I checked with a neighbour and the water is flowing fine there so I think its a localized problem. Only choice to wait until the thaw??

Avns1s

UNless you know where the pipe is buried very shallowly on your site or if you feel its frozen as it comes up to your tap (perhaps in your cavity?), you're probable best to wait and see.

Make sure there are no taps left on when you leave the house.

Xcellor

Its a house on an estate. I know the valve off the mains water is out on the pavement somewhere but we are still covered in snow. I was going to chuck some warm water on it to see if that did anything...

Of course since its covered in snow finding it is proving quite difficult... I think we are supposed to thaw a bit tomorrow... Fantastic after all the xmas dishes are in the dishwasher...

items

Here's a tip. Anyone living in the real cold areas prone to mains water freezing,

Leave a mains tap on over night, barely on or flush a few toilets before going to bed, even turn on wash machine at longest setting. Think of anything you can to keep mains water moving, once its moving less chance of freezing.

Xcellor

I found out from the county council that they turned off all water in my area because of a fault. However this was fixed and at 3pm they turned the water back on.

The water has not come back on so I'm worried now that there is a burst pipe, probably assisted by the fact that the water pressure was turned off.

I live on a housing estate. I am just wondering whose responsibility it is to fix this. Is it mine or the councils? I assume digging will be involved...

Thanks

X

items

Xcellor wrote: »

I found out from the county council that they turned off all water in my area because of a fault. However this was fixed and at 3pm they turned the water back on.

The water has not come back on so I'm worried now that there is a burst pipe, probably assisted by the fact that the water pressure was turned off.

I live on a housing estate. I am just wondering whose responsibility it is to fix this. Is it mine or the councils? I assume digging will be involved...

Thanks

X

With water being turned off then back on you might have some kind of blockage at road valve.

If it happens to be a burst pipe, as were in Ireland expect some book passing from Co Council. If mains is burst in your boundary, they might start nit picking. They might find mains in your boundary is not below ground enough to meet building regs. Expect all kinds of excuses to justify handing you a shovel. I would'nt be suprised if they walk away after turning off your supply. To leave you up to fixing the bust main, if it is bust. If its bust at valve or before boundary, its defo up to Co Council to fix.

I had a outside stopcock seize a few days before xmass once, had to shut off water because mains pipe in attic burst, tried turning off water under sink, valve there also seized, had no other option but to shut off water at road. When Co Council finally came out xmass eve with staff and machines to replace water main, they dug up a massive hole in path to replace valve and left the hole for months. Homeowner could'nt even use driveway.

You might be lucky, Co Council will have less of a grudge to do work in your area because of their bad handling of the flooding.

You best ring them as its now an emergancy, you've no water. If you have kids stress that you need fresh water, anything at all to have them call out asap.

Wont really know for sure until Co Council arrive, your mains might all of a sudden come back on, stranger things have happened. Best of luck.

Xcellor

items wrote: »

With water being turned off then back on you might have some kind of blockage at road valve.

If it happens to be a burst pipe, as were in Ireland expect some book passing from Co Council. If mains is burst in your boundary, they might start nit picking. They might find mains in your boundary is not below ground enough to meet building regs. Expect all kinds of excuses to justify handing you a shovel. I would'nt be suprised if they walk away after turning off your supply. To leave you up to fixing the bust main, if it is bust. If its bust at valve or before boundary, its defo up to Co Council to fix.

I had a outside stopcock seize a few days before xmass once, had to shut off water because mains pipe in attic burst, tried turning off water under sink, valve there also seized, had no other option but to shut off water at road. When Co Council finally came out xmass eve with staff and machines to replace water main, they dug up a massive hole in path to replace valve and left the hole for months. Homeowner could'nt even use driveway.

You might be lucky, Co Council will have less of a grudge to do work in your area because of their bad handling of the flooding.

You best ring them as its now an emergancy, you've no water. If you have kids stress that you need fresh water, anything at all to have them call out asap.

Wont really know for sure until Co Council arrive, your mains might all of a sudden come back on, stranger things have happened. Best of luck.

Thanks for your input. I hope its just a valve issue. I did notice an area where I think the pipe might run underneath was a bit wet.. but with all the snow its very hard to know if its the actual problem area... At least if I have an idea where it is it saves on digging random holes...

This is not what you want to happen during holidays :S

items

Xcellor wrote: »

Thanks for your input. I hope its just a valve issue. I did notice an area where I think the pipe might run underneath was a bit wet.. but with all the snow its very hard to know if its the actual problem area... At least if I have an idea where it is it saves on digging random holes...

This is not what you want to happen during holidays :S

Sound, best have it looked at asap, if you have a leak close to house, you might find some rising damp over the next few months, also foundations are not designed to take constant deluge of water so again best keep getting onto Co Council.

Xcellor

just to update. Water went on during night. Must have been lce blockage. Was so happy to see running water!!!

Rev. BlueJeans

I have it as well here-coldest day yet, and the car took a few turns this morning on the key to start, so I'm not overly concerned. Pipes at work froze last week but they were exposed.

Not much of a thaw there today, so we're relying on the attic tank to keep us going.

Best to leave the kitchen tap on just a crack I guess.

Xcellor

water off again since the morning. Council saying major supply probs. In longford. Dont know why my house is the only house effected on the estate.

Xcellor

Tried everything I can think of to unfreeze but not a drop of water coming... Must have thrown 25 litres of hot water around where I think the pipes are buried and nothing....

Kinda desperate now... don't know what to do. Going into third day without running water.

I checked where the mains water runs off the supply. the stop cock. Twisted it on and off there is a dial which must record water usage but this is not moving since I guess no water is fllowing. Put hot water down there just in case.. Still nothing.

is it possible that valve is broken??

X

items

Xcellor wrote: »

Tried everything I can think of to unfreeze but not a drop of water coming... Must have thrown 25 litres of hot water around where I think the pipes are buried and nothing....

Kinda desperate now... don't know what to do. Going into third day without running water.

I checked where the mains water runs off the supply. the stop cock. Twisted it on and off there is a dial which must record water usage but this is not moving since I guess no water is fllowing. Put hot water down there just in case.. Still nothing.

is it possible that valve is broken??



X

Sorry to hear about your water, I've heard a lot about this pouring water over valve etc, I've never had much success this way. Steel / brass areas are less prone to freezing, have a look at your road, footpath etc most steel lids esb eircom etc stand out, not covered in frost.

Frost plug in pipework is main problem, you could have many plugs all along underground mains going into house. Might not be freezing outside but ground temp is very different, this is why some have water and some don't. All depends how low mains is below ground and how cold ground temp is.

Last few day's I've been giving a tip, if you've found outside mains stopcock, lower yourself to ground over stopcock lid, have a listen out for moving water, if water is moving but no water @ house, your mains supply is bust wide open. Time for Co Council. You've listened so prob best to rule out bust main. Sounds like you have a recently fitted stopcock with combined meter point. The plastic on off valve is different on each, not all same fitted so make sure thats open.

More than likely your mains is still frozen. If you've a house close by, with running water, could be possible to buy a roll of plastic pipe and pipe up a temp supply into your house. Might be job for plumber, you'd have to leave things safe for return of mains water.

Call local Co Council or Head of Group / Community Water Scheme. Its an emergency, you've no water.

Xcellor

items wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your water, I've heard a lot about this pouring water over valve etc, I've never had much success this way. Steel / brass areas are less prone to freezing, have a look at your road, footpath etc most steel lids esb eircom etc stand out, not covered in frost.

Frost plug in pipework is main problem, you could have many plugs all along underground mains going into house. Might not be freezing outside but ground temp is very different, this is why some have water and some don't. All depends how low mains is below ground and how cold ground temp is.


Call local Co Council or Head of Group / Community Water Scheme. Its an emergency, you've no water.

The water cover for the stop cock is frosted over. For some time it was under compacted snow but this cleared. When I checked it this morning there was ice on it and underneath it...

I phoned the council today and they are having someone phone me back... So I'm waiting. Still no water.

The strangest thing is that last time the issue fixed itself was the middle of night which I would have expected to be the least likely since its the coldest period... This was without any interference with me, I just woke up to the sound of the cold water tank filling. There is no way that the temp was warm enough to thaw so something else must have happened.

Anyway hoping council have some bright ideas.I dont want a third day without water

steamengine

Xcellor wrote: »

The water cover for the stop cock is frosted over. For some time it was under compacted snow but this cleared. When I checked it this morning there was ice on it and underneath it...

I phoned the council today and they are having someone phone me back... So I'm waiting. Still no water.

The strangest thing is that last time the issue fixed itself was the middle of night which I would have expected to be the least likely since its the coldest period... This was without any interference with me, I just woke up to the sound of the cold water tank filling. There is no way that the temp was warm enough to thaw so something else must have happened.

Anyway hoping council have some bright ideas.I dont want a third day without water

There is still a good possibility its frozen at this point, if you have to DIY it you could try the following. A garden hose from a kitchen hot tap for an hour or so. Just keep sufficient flow to continually douse the valve with hot water. Also you could try a fan heater on an extension lead. But be careful with electricity and wet ground. Take precautions, rubber gloves, dry board to stand on. Best to switch it on remotely from inside the house - don't touch the fan, leads, sockets or plugs with the power on.

Xcellor

steamengine wrote: »

There is still a good possibility its frozen at this point, if you have to DIY it you could try the following. A garden hose from a kitchen hot tap for an hour or so. Just keep sufficient flow to continually douse the valve with hot water. Also you could try a fan heater on an extension lead. But be careful with electricity and wet ground. Take precautions, rubber gloves, dry board to stand on. Best to switch it on remotely from inside the house - don't touch the fan, leads, sockets or plugs with the power on.

I just dont understand why only my house is affected. I mean its an estate,the houses are meters from one another...

Hot water is a problem when you don't have cold water to start from Neighbours have been helpful but don't want to impose, cold water is one thing but "borrowing" hot water is another. Kettle power is sh*t by the time the second kettle is boiled the first douse is already frozen...

steamengine

Xcellor wrote: »

I just dont understand why only my house is affected. I mean its an estate,the houses are meters from one another...

Hot water is a problem when you don't have cold water to start from Neighbours have been helpful but don't want to impose, cold water is one thing but "borrowing" hot water is another. Kettle power is sh*t by the time the second kettle is boiled the first douse is already frozen...

I understand where you are coming from, and I responded because you mentioned there is ice present at the stop-cock. I would try anything within reason to heat the area around the stopcock up and so eliminate that possibility anyway. If you have a solid fuel fire, then heat up some suitably sized stones and pop them down beside the valve. Keep them clear of any plastic component, PVC piping etc. Needs Must !!!

Also be assertive with the council !!!

steamengine

You mention further back in the thread that the stop cock may be broken. It appears from some of the posts , that your valve is plastic with a handle that you twist through 90 degrees, either to shut or open.

These type of valves operate a circular flap or a ball which is either in line with the flow or completely shuts it off.

There is a possibility that the handle is twisting on the spindle but not actually operating the valve. It could be stuck open or shut. If the valve is iced up it won't open or shut anyway, but will appear to - because the handle moves. I reckon you should inform the Council of this possibility as the valve if broken would require replacement, and that may well be their responsibility.

Xcellor

steamengine wrote: »

You mention further back in the thread that the stop cock may be broken. It appears from some of the posts , that your valve is plastic with a handle that you twist through 90 degrees, either to shut or open.

These type of valves operate a circular flap or a ball which is either in line with the flow or completely shuts it off.

There is a possibility that the handle is twisting on the spindle but not actually operating the valve. It could be stuck open or shut. If the valve is iced up it won't open or shut anyway, but will appear to - because the handle moves. I reckon you should inform the Council of this possibility as the valve if broken would require replacement, and that may well be their responsibility.

The council plumber came back to me yesterday saying not much I can do apart from wait to thaw or hot water in kettle approach. I've tried that but to be honest without continual heat the chance of an area warming up sufficiently to make an overall different is small...

I noticed I had a large build up of ice, actually about 1cm thick on the drive pavement which is where I guess the pipe from the road comes off to meet the stop cock valve. This has been under ice since the freeze started before xmas so its likely this is the area where the pipe has frozen. I've cleared all the ice and salted the area. The sun is shinning on that spot this morning so I am hoping some heat will penetrate.........

Xcellor

Got a hose pipe and am using my outside tap as the inlet in to the house so managed to fill up water tank and am running the dish washer, washing machine off of it... Kind neighbour allowed me to use his outside tap.

Going to try to see if using pressure from this from the opposite direction can unblock it...

X

amaughan

Xcellor wrote: »

Got a hose pipe and am using my outside tap as the inlet in to the house so managed to fill up water tank and am running the dish washer, washing machine off of it... Kind neighbour allowed me to use his outside tap.

Going to try to see if using pressure from this from the opposite direction can unblock it...

X

hay im in edgeworthstown longford.im the only one in my estate this seems to be effecting also.have no clue where my mains pipe can be accessed or even a stop cock.totally frozen since before xmas going to of my brain with no water to do washing up and having to flush toilets with bottles of water.any help is greatly appreciated.

thanks
aaron maughan

Pete M.

Unless the weather warms up enough for your supply to thaw out, there's bugger all you can do bar run a new supply which would be a rather unwieldy alternative.
If it does thaw, then keep it running, I know that's like 'so uncool' these days, but if you want water then whats you're going to have to do. Can you do it? Do you care about our precious resources?? (becomes a lot more precious when you don't got it).
For next time, make sure your supply is deep enough down and well insulated enough to ensure it don't freeze, as quickly anyway.
Another 2 weeks of this weather and a lot more would freeze too.

nouveau_4.0

Probably a stupid question, but how do i find the stop cock?

db

The stopcock is usually outside the gate under a 3-4" round lid.

I did the hairdryer under the sink trick as well and it worked for me after half an hour. It hasn't worked for neighbours though. It's such a relief to get the water back after 3 days without.

I'll be leaving my tap on overnight to make sure I don't lose it again - I reckon I've built up some credit

Rev. BlueJeans

It froze under the sink :eek:?

Kitchen must have been cold.

Tiny constant flow on the kitchen tap here, and have had no issues-although a pipe or two burst around the town, a reported outage this evening didn't materialise.

In fact, the neighbours have been helping themselves to my outside taps all day, as theirs won't thawing before late morning tomorrow, at the earliest.

Cands2010

Hi
In preparation for the coming winter this year, maybe buy some hot water bottles (use these instead of pouring all that hot water into the ground) to surround the stop valve, or those microwaveable heat packs.
Also, ensure that you have packing to fill in the space around the valve. Bubble wrap, old towels, polystyrene, will all do the job if you can't find a better alternative. I've seen people park their cars over the stop valve in the hope to prevent the frost getting in, but I think our froze somewhere in the garden so its no benefit all the time.
We have the same problem when the temp drops so I plan to be prepared!!!

aah yes

What's the forecast for a cold winter or warm one ?

Unlikely as bad as the last, that was 100 year event surely ?

Xcellor

My stop cock had a leak in it which may have lead to the freezing of it last year. Water was collecting in cavity and freezing up. Council came and dug up and replaced with a new stop cock. A bit lower and it has a proper polystryrene insulating "plug" whihc goes between the stop cock and the cover. Hoping this will reduce chances of freezing happening again.