UK and Ireland league?

adamski8

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Thought so, but whats he doing on board.ie talking about how 'the Irish' aren't welcome in his league?

Seems a bit strange.

Ooooo, thats not nice, everyone should be welcome to voice their opinions

Dub13

bayviewclose wrote: »

obviously the big sticking point is crowd control. We dont need a reminder of what happened the last time English fans were over here. Sure the FAI would have huge reservations about a combined league on that front

I have already said on this thread that this will never happen with the English,why should they invite any other teams in.

It could happen with the rest of the 'home nations' which would not have the same security ramifications.

Spiritoftheseventies

And at the end of the day we blocked a move by Wimbledon to re locate a few years ago. So would assume lower tier clubs would put in a similiar move if they thought it would threaten their livelihood

OhNoYouDidn't

Dub13 wrote: »

Its not strange at all,are you saying because he may be English that he cant talking about Irish football...?this thread is about Irish & English football.

I'm simply saying its a strange tone to use on an Irish forum.

Interestingly, there are some serious football people who will tell you that if Celtic and the hun join the EPL or more likely, EPL 2, an Irish, Scottish and Welsh league is highly probable.

Spiritoftheseventies

End of the day for that to really happen would have to see the likes of Bohs, Rovers, Cork City, and maybe Derry City breaking away from League of Ireland. And that would be resisted as that would impact on gates of smaller teams. Take it slowly. Enter maybe a combined team in to the carling cup and see how it works out. If the attendances are good than fair enough.

_blank_

bayviewclose wrote: »

. Enter maybe a combined team in to the carling cup

Who the bleedin' hell would support Shamrock Bohvers City?

And then what if they drew United/Liverpool, you'd have a bizarre situation of an "Irish Club" playing at Landsdowne Road, with the minority support.

Yeah, great.

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

Who the bleedin' hell would support Shamrock Bohvers City?

And then what if they drew United/Liverpool, you'd have a bizarre situation of an "Irish Club" playing at Landsdowne Road, with the minority support.

Yeah, great.

Well for a team to do well over in England, an eircom league team would need to be strong.
Put out a Leinster team. Unite the province. Are you telling me no-one would come out to watch United play in Lansdowne road over some small issue. Lets face it what is your average league of Ireland support. two to three thousand. This would be a good way of promoting league and would also give the better players a chance of coming under the radar.

_blank_

bayviewclose wrote: »

Well for a team to do well over in England, an eircom league team would need to be strong.

OK, erm, I don't want to even entertain the notion of an "Oirish" team playing in the EPL.

Also, your use of the term "eircom League" speaks volumes about how much you actually know about football in this country, so I'm taking your opinions with a handful of salt.

It seems to me that you want successful football in "ireland" that will suit your agenda.

bayviewclose wrote: »

Put out a Leinster team. Unite the province.

It isn't rugby. who would support this team.

1. Current LoI fans? No way in the world would I or any other self-respecting LoI fan support "Leinster". I support Shels. Shels are my team. Not Leinster, not Shelrock Bohvers, not Dublin United. Bohs, Rovers, Pats and even Sporting Fingal fans feel the same way.

2. Fans of EPL teams. No, for the same reasons. Could/would you stop being a Liverpool fan if there was an Irish team in the EPL? No? Didn't think so.

bayviewclose wrote: »

Are you telling me no-one would come out to watch United play in Lansdowne road over some small issue.

Nope, I know Landsdowne Road would be full to the rafters if United came to town. Full with United fans, not fans of the Irish/Leinster team.

bayviewclose wrote: »

Lets face it what is your average league of Ireland support. two to three thousand. This would be a good way of promoting league and would also give the better players a chance of coming under the radar.

No it wouldn't, it would be a good way to get EPL fans an easy way to see their teams once or twice a year.

What happens if this "Leinster" team draw Millwalll in the League Cup?

OhNoYouDidn't

Des wrote: »

What happens if this "Leinster" team draw Millwalll in the League Cup?

They meet up with their Rovers mates and batter the Ole Ole's? :pac:

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

OK, erm, I don't want to even entertain the notion of an "Oirish" team playing in the EPL.

Also, your use of the term "eircom League" speaks volumes about how much you actually know about football in this country, so I'm taking your opinions with a handful of salt.

It seems to me that you want successful football in "ireland" that will suit your agenda.




It isn't rugby. who would support this team.

1. Current LoI fans? No way in the world would I or any other self-respecting LoI fan support "Leinster". I support Shels. Shels are my team. Not Leinster, not Shelrock Bohvers, not Dublin United. Bohs, Rovers, Pats and even Sporting Fingal fans feel the same way.

2. Fans of EPL teams. No, for the same reasons. Could/would you stop being a Liverpool fan if there was an Irish team in the EPL? No? Didn't think so.


Nope, I know Landsdowne Road would be full to the rafters if United came to town. Full with United fans, not fans of the Irish/Leinster team.


No it wouldn't, it would be a good way to get EPL fans an easy way to see their teams once or twice a year.

What happens if this "Leinster" team draw Millwalll in the League Cup?

End of the day, for us to have a irish team or Dublin team playing at top level we cannot sustain so many dublin teams. Shels came close against Deportivo a few seasons ago but it ultimately nearly broke them in terms of finances. Look at the league (So i called it the eircom, you going to pull me up on some silly technicality) at moment. We have pats, shels, Rovers, Bohs and UCD and Bray just outside of the capital. Can we sustain that many clubs in a league.

_blank_

bayviewclose wrote: »

End of the day, for us to have a irish team or Dublin team playing at top level we cannot sustain so many dublin teams.

By top level do you mean an Irish team playing in the EPL?

Or do you mean the group stages of CL or EL?

bayviewclose wrote: »

Shels came close against Deportivo a few seasons ago but it ultimately nearly broke them in terms of finances.

I know

bayviewclose wrote: »

Look at the league (So i called it the eircom, you going to pull me up on some silly technicality) at moment. We have pats, shels, Rovers, Bohs and UCD and Bray just outside of the capital. Can we sustain that many clubs in a league.

And Sporting Fingal too.

Can Dublin sustain so many clubs? Nope, it can't, seven clubs in Dublin is ridiculous.

Or is it?

The Tallaght area should have a club, and all signs are pointing to it being a success.

Fingal was the fastest growing urban area in Europe, and so probably should have a team. It should have been Bohs or Shels, in my opinion. Instead of wedging yet another team into the mix, the FAI should have approached Fingal CoCo with a plan to re-locate either Shels or Bohs to that area, then leave the other team in the hands of Dublin CoCo (in my opinion it should have been Bohs left in their traditional home, and come under the auspices of DCC, and Shels to Morton, to encompass Fingal).

Pats and UCD could have fought the DL-Rathdown area.

Four teams for the four "regions" of Dublin, with UCD continuing to operate as they do in not unfeasible, get rid of SF, they weren't needed. Get the Councils on board and it would work.

Bray actually do pretty well for where they are.

But, the problem is not that there are so many Dublin teams, it's that the teams from around the country are unsustainable. Kilkenny City recently dropped out of the league. As have Cobh.

Athlone, Longford, Monaghan. Two teams in Louth, with Drogheda actually blocked from a move by their local council.

you see, people can bang on about how the teams are run badly, but it's more than that. Much more.

Th Rovers model is a good one, since they had their debts wiped granted. If they continue to do well, then the other County Councils may look at it differently, but until then, the problems will persist.

Oh, one last thing., The FAI continue to ignore the misdoings in clubs like Cork, and punishing clubs who do run a financially prudent ship, and until that changes, then we're stuck where we are.

Dub13

Des wrote: »

Fingal was the fastest growing urban area in Europe, and so probably should have a team. It should have been Bohs or Shels, in my opinion. Instead of wedging yet another team into the mix, the FAI should have approached Fingal CoCo with a plan to re-locate either Shels or Bohs to that area, then leave the other team in the hands of Dublin CoCo (in my opinion it should have been Bohs left in their traditional home, and come under the auspices of DCC, and Shels to Morton, to encompass Fingal).

Pats and UCD could have fought the DL-Rathdown area.

Four teams for the four "regions" of Dublin, with UCD continuing to operate as they do in not unfeasible, get rid of SF, they weren't needed. Get the Councils on board and it would work.

Bray actually do pretty well for where they are.

But, the problem is not that there are so many Dublin teams, it's that the teams from around the country are unsustainable. Kilkenny City recently dropped out of the league. As have Cobh.

Athlone, Longford, Monaghan. Two teams in Louth, with Drogheda actually blocked from a move by their local council.

you see, people can bang on about how the teams are run badly, but it's more than that. Much more.

Th Rovers model is a good one, since they had their debts wiped granted. If they continue to do well, then the other County Councils may look at it differently, but until then, the problems will persist.

Oh, one last thing., The FAI continue to ignore the misdoings in clubs like Cork, and punishing clubs who do run a financially prudent ship, and until that changes, then we're stuck where we are.

I agree with all this and it seems very straight forward I don't know why someone in the FAI could not have come up with something similar.

Whatever happned Shels big move out to Donabate..?

Fingal CC do seem to be backing SF,just from been around Swords they have banners all over the Council offices adds in papers etc etc but as Des said why could they not have done this to a existing team ie Shels.

_blank_

Dub13 wrote: »

Whatever happned Shels big move out to Donabate..?

A NIMBY farmer, or the fact that it was probably lies anyway.

Then SF came along

BOHtox

I wouldn't Mind a London Irish football team

Paul Tergat

BOHtox wrote: »

I wouldn't Mind a London Irish football team

What the hell does that mean?

BOHtox

Nothing really if they were a conference or league 2 team called LI .
Like in rugby

Paul Tergat

errr...ok.

As long as there is no actual affiliation with Ireland then its ok.

BOHtox

BOHtox wrote: »

I wouldn't Mind a London Irish football team

Having thought about its a bad idea never mind

BOHtox

p_larkin99 wrote: »

errr...ok.

As long as there is no actual affiliation with Ireland then its ok.

its just a name

Paul Tergat

BOHtox wrote: »

its just a name

which would render it pretty pointless.

In the context of the thread you posted it in I thought you were wanting some sort of wider Irish representation in the PL.

BOHtox

p_larkin99 wrote: »

which would render it pretty pointless.

In the context of the thread you posted it in I thought you were wanting some sort of wider Irish representation in the PL.

No I was'nt I'm happy supporting my loi team which has been supported by the family since it's founding and it's not fingal:)

Lollymcd

As a BIG Drog fan I would be mortified to imagine Manchester United coming to United Park. The place is really in a shocking state, but then again, there would be no fear of that happening in a combined league. Irish clubs would probably languish at the bottom of some conference or other. We're just not good enough to compete on a week by week basis with big European clubs. Yes, Pats, Bohs, Derry (and even Drogheda United) have shone at one time or another in the UEFA/Champions League but I really believe these were one-offs. I like the LOI and the FAI Cup, they may be low brow ... but they're ours...sniff sniff!!!

tolosenc

How about maintaining the league system as it is in NI, Wales, Scotland and ROI, but creating a competition à la the Magners League, initially with a couple of the best teams from each and, ultimately becoming the more prestigious, with local clubs becoming feeders to Dublin, Northern Ireland, North Wales, etc. teams.

The money filtering down and the increased attention could only be good.

Gavin "shels"

Toulousain wrote: »

How about maintaining the league system as it is in NI, Wales, Scotland and ROI, but creating a competition à la the Magners League, initially with a couple of the best teams from each and, ultimately becoming the more prestigious, with local clubs becoming feeders to Dublin, Northern Ireland, North Wales, etc. teams.

The money filtering down and the increased attention could only be good.

Was talk of that before the Setanta Cup was started up, but with that cup all but down the drain imo it would be a good idea. Only thing is th guards would probably not allow Rangers to play over here like they did back in 1998 when we had to play the match in Tranmere.

BraziliaNZ

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Last seasons Bohs squad had Glen Crowe and Jason Byrne (Irish caps), Joey Ndo (Cameroon caps) and Brian Murphy (In the Ireland squad for France playoff). There's 4 internationals for you.

We were minutes away from knocking out Red Bull Salzburg, who waltzed through their Europa league group (containing Villareal and Lazio) and finished above (in last seasons Austrian Bundesliga) the Rapid Vienna squad that knocked Aston Villa out of the Europa league qualifyers.

But we obviously don't count.

I was at that game in Dalymount and I have never seen a team play as bad and negatively as Bohs did that day. Glen Crowe was an absolute disgrace that day, looked about 2 stone overweight too, more suited to St Anne's on a Sunday than "professional" football. Would have been a travesty if Bohs got through that day, barely strung a pass together.

anonymous_joe

In all fairness, there's no reason for the English to let us into their league.

The only major benefit to Irish football would be if an Irish team was to make it into the Premiership. If memory serves, the most populous nationalities in the Premiership are English footballers, Irish and then French. There are a lot of Irish lads who'll never again play in the Eircom league. It might be good to see them playing for an Irish club.

That'd be the only real benefit.

As it stands though, were Bohs et al to be dumped into the English system, they'd all struggle to get much further than League One, merely because of low income and f all fans.

At the end of the day, Ireland's real problem is that unlike any other country I've ever been to, our fans (and there are a lot of football fans in Ireland) have almost no connection to our local teams.

Supporting foreign teams is fairly common. Most Brazilians and Argentinians I've spoken to have a favourite team in Europe, usually Barcelona or Milan or whomever their clubs legendary figures played for back in the day. I've known Norwegians who supported their local team and then United or Liverpool (blame Solksjaer, Riise, Oyvind Leonardsen or whatever his name was at Pool and that other one they had way back when). It's only really in Ireland I've spoken to football fans who ignore their home teams. It's not something that's going to change any time soon, and as such, the idea of our teams joining a 'British/Western North North West Islands of Atlanticus' League just wouldn't work.

Gavin "shels"

anonymous_joe wrote: »

As it stands though, were Bohs et al to be dumped into the English system, they'd all struggle to get much further than League One, merely because of low income and f all fans.

Personnally I'd say Bohs and Rovers would challenge for mid-table Championship by the time the new LoI season starts and they have their full squads. Low income and f all fans would improve over time.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

At the end of the day, Ireland's real problem is that unlike any other country I've ever been to, our fans (and there are a lot of football fans in Ireland) have almost no connection to our local teams.

Supporting foreign teams is fairly common. Most Brazilians and Argentinians I've spoken to have a favourite team in Europe, usually Barcelona or Milan or whomever their clubs legendary figures played for back in the day. I've known Norwegians who supported their local team and then United or Liverpool (blame Solksjaer, Riise, Oyvind Leonardsen or whatever his name was at Pool and that other one they had way back when). It's only really in Ireland I've spoken to football fans who ignore their home teams. It's not something that's going to change any time soon, and as such, the idea of our teams joining a 'British/Western North North West Islands of Atlanticus' League just wouldn't work.

They have no connection because they don't want a connection.

The 2nd part is the nail on the head, most football fans wuld keep their eye out for the foriegn team they like, but their local club nearly always comes first, remember posting a figure which was like a League 2's average attendence and it was more than any top LoI clubs average attendence.

Spiritoftheseventies

For me I think English clubs need to start paying more realistic fees for our home grown players. They are getting them for next to nothing at the moment. We are under selling ourselves on that front.

Foxx92

bayviewclose wrote: »

For me I think English clubs need to start paying more realistic fees for our home grown players. They are getting them for next to nothing at the moment. We are under selling ourselves on that front.

It's a cycle really. We have to sell our best players-because of low attendances-because people think the standard is poor-because we sell our best players...

Gavin "shels"

Foxx92 wrote: »

It's a cycle really. We have to sell our best players-because of low attendances-because people think the standard is poor-because we sell our best players...

Yup, look at the players the league has produced and have gone to England; Kevin Doyle, Keith Fahey, etc... if we managed to keep the good players here we'd have a quality league, but the fact clubs need the money kills off the talent.

Spiritoftheseventies

Gavin shels wrote: »

Yup, look at the players the league has produced and have gone to England; Kevin Doyle, Keith Fahey, etc... if we managed to keep the good players here we'd have a quality league, but the fact clubs need the money kills off the talent.

Yes but are the LOI clubs getting decent money for them?

newballsplease

why dont we have an irish/italian league?:rolleyes:

Paul Tergat

newballsplease wrote: »

why dont we have an irish/italian league?:rolleyes:

stupid thing to say.

its obvious there is a much greater connection between England and Ireland than other countries. football culture, in this example, being the very obvious one.

Foxx92

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes but are the LOI clubs getting decent money for them?

I'll give you an example of this year. One of our most promising players in years, Jay O'Shea, was sold to Birmingham for around 80,000euros. He is worth many times this, but with attendances of under 1,000 we couldn't afford not to sell him. If gates had been up we could have kept him or held out for more.

dsmythy

Gavin shels wrote: »

Personnally I'd say Bohs and Rovers would challenge for mid-table Championship by the time the new LoI season starts and they have their full squads. Low income and f all fans would improve over time.

All well and good but how many of the players would stay with the clubs if they were forced to start at English Conference level when they could instead leap to League One straight away and get paid much more for their troubles? Then a new sad Irish football cycle would start of hanging around the lower leagues stagnating.

Just another reason why those thinking of this idea will unlikely ever see it.

Gavin "shels"

dsmythy wrote: »

All well and good but how many of the players would stay with the clubs if they were forced to start at English Conference level when they could instead leap to League One straight away and get paid much more for their troubles? Then a new sad Irish football cycle would start of hanging around the lower leagues stagnating.

Just another reason why those thinking of this idea will unlikely ever see it.

I was speaking hypothetically.

Paulegend

in fairness the op had a good suggestion but it would never happen. it would only benifit the irish teams. it would mean the irish teams would start at the bottom but how are the lower lower league teams over there suppose to pay for flights every week? wouldnt happen. unless the irish teams moved over but then they are just english teams and we would have to travel over anyway.

my second reason is far simpilar. ireland and the north talked about forming a league of ireland which would involve the north and south(eventually could happen if the setanta cup has its way). they are reluctant to do such a thing as it could mean the end of the republic of Ireland and northern Irelands national teams. if we can have the same league they(uefa/fifa) will make us have the same team. for the record im not against that idea at all but the ifa and fai are aparantly. after all you cant have 2 managers 2 ceo's 2 of every role really for 1 country. so this would prob be an issue if we went to england aswell. could you imagine supporting the UK/Irish football team:( blah