staring a dairy farm

whelan1

we are liquid milk and things got screwed up a couple of years ago when a bull that was with the cows wasnt performing:( looking at the latest milk recording the autumn calvers are streets ahead for their 305 day yield , i have 150 milkers but then cows didnt milk well last summer , heres hoping for this year

zoostorm

portoe1 wrote: »

I am in the middle of costing everythin from the start up to production stage!! I would like to milk a cross between holstein and norweigian red!! does anyone have any comments on autumn cavling!?

With the winter we've just had, I'd stay away from autumn calvers. Pure hardship trying to get the machine going. Never mind trying to get the milkman in and out. No money would compensate you for what has to be done.Cows are designed by nature to bull in the spring and calve down around january, trying to get them to do otherwise leads to unneccessary hardship, particularily if you're not guaranteed a good winter bonus.

Humpty Dumpty

Open day on a single robot farm that is grazing very successfully. 20th May. Watch the journal for it.

milkprofit

Its not the cow but the farmer is most important
If you want a decent life style (milking toughf enoughf) stay away from autumn calving you will have enoughf to do to learn how to run one profitable system

Pacoa

Open day on a single robot farm that is grazing very successfully. 20th May. Watch the journal for it.

I was at this event the other day. Nice simple set up, nothing fancy and seemed to be workong fine. Saw cows making their way in to be milked all by themselves and the robot had no problem milking them, at least not while I was there.
Was given a rough price of 160k to install one robot and 275k for two of them.
It's a lot of dosh. Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k. What do yee think, are they really costing that much now to build???

irishh_bob

Pacoa wrote: »

I was at this event the other day. Nice simple set up, nothing fancy and seemed to be workong fine. Saw cows making their way in to be milked all by themselves and the robot had no problem milking them, at least not while I was there.
Was given a rough price of 160k to install one robot and 275k for two of them.
It's a lot of dosh. Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k. What do yee think, are they really costing that much now to build???

closer to the half of it i would have thought

F.D

Pacoa wrote: »

I was at this event the other day. Nice simple set up, nothing fancy and seemed to be workong fine. Saw cows making their way in to be milked all by themselves and the robot had no problem milking them, at least not while I was there.
Was given a rough price of 160k to install one robot and 275k for two of them.
It's a lot of dosh. Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k. What do yee think, are they really costing that much now to build???

I got a quote for a basic enough 10 unit was 50 k, the building and electric i'd say another 20 k, you have to look at the tecnology, if i speced a parlour the same as the robot i'm sure it would be 100k easy
the main difference i see is if you want to increase the herd side you can do so in the parlour without spending another 100 k, down side you still have the tedious job of milking!

Humpty Dumpty

First of all I will point out that I am a robot lover. You are quiet correct in saying that a parlour would be half, but you are also quiet correct if you speced it up to robot level. Could I make a few points.
It is impossible to come near the spec of a robot but if you tried a 20 unit would cost you 159 for the kit. collecting yards and house, I will guess another 50 to 70 which is only about 20% off two robots. But I think it would be as dear in reality.
The farmer at the open day the last day said he had cows during his first winter went from 9 gallons on conventional to 13 gallons on robots milked 4 times a day. and he was not doing the milking. If you got 15% more mik which is conservative, you must also take this into account over 20 years of the life of a robot, prob more.
Remember also that the robot would still be worth 30k after 11-15 years.
Agree with your point about expanding, but I would rather put 55 cows on a robot producing what 65 to 70 would do on conventional. Same milk in the tank less fixed costs. Other point to remember Vet costs crash under robots as they are being milked 3-4 times a day. You must factor it all in. Dont forget the biggy, do you want to gon in a pit for the next 20 years 7 days a week. Seems to me that farmer in kerry has a life.

Pacoa

Seems to me that farmer in kerry has a life.

Yes, just change the fencer wire morning and evening and clean round the robot and your done (during the summer of course).

There must be health benifits to them too. Less work = more energy and then there's safety. A neighbour had his wrist broke by a heifer last year. Kicked it up against a bar so at least you wouldn't have that risk anymore.

browned

Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k.

depends on da spec i guess. put up a very basic 20 unit four yrs ago on a greenfield site. bought the vacuum pumps, lines, clusters etc new for 16,800e, and after taking away the grant at the time u could say the parlour was bought for 8,800. the shed was mostly second hand material (roof, piping) so as to keep the cost down. soil water tank was grand aided at the time as well but i'd say the shed, parlour collection yard and soiled water tank cost between 30-40,000. a new bulk tank would be an additional cost

it milks 80 cows in 40-50 mins, 35 if i'm in a hurry:D

robots are more suited to high imput, high output cows. not sure they'd work in ur typical spring calving herds which make up the bulk of herds in ire.

just wondering does the cow get ration every time she comes in for milking?

Pacoa

just wondering does the cow get ration every time she comes in for milking?

Yes they're trickle fed a small bit at a time. The few cows i saw being milked were getting 2.5kgs per visit (2.4 visits per day) but i think they were being fed to yeild and thoses ones were high yielding. You wouldn't want a robot idle for two months of the year but having said that im spring calving and i milked all through last winter, and seem to be doing it every winter.

Humpty Dumpty

Pacoa, I agree with you completely and I truly believe that all the 80% of all block calvers are actually taking 12 weeks to calv down. The farmer the last day also said that he had cows on 400 days and still milking. He claimed that cows on robots just seem to keep on going. Again back to the arguement if you are comparing a conventional to a robot, Am I not correct in saying that if you are a true spring calver than that will also be shut down for two months.

browned

am only saying that they're more suited to the higher input cow cause they need ration to entice the cow to milk, nothin to do with shutting down the parlour for a said period. there are many spring herds that could go 4-5 (grass growth/weather dependent of course) without feeding ration so in these cases how would u entice the cow to the robot. i know they were trialing them in new zealand on grass only diets where the enticement would be fresh grass but if a cow was getting ration at the shoulders and the farmer wanted to stop feeding it how would he entice the cow to milk herself in that senario.

don't get me wrong i think there is def a place for robot milkers in ireland but i don't see it taking off with ur typical seasonal calver.

irishh_bob

a robotic system would not be compatible with many dairy farms around this country who have to walk cows across roads or long distances , they will never catch on in this country , more suited to the netherlands , germany etc where cows are indoors all year round

F.D

irishh_bob wrote: »

a robotic system would not be compatible with many dairy farms around this country who have to walk cows across roads or long distances , they will never catch on in this country , more suited to the netherlands , germany etc where cows are indoors all year round

Most cows around the country over the past few years have been in for longer that ever before with all the rain, yes crossing the road would put a end to the robot idea unless you were willing to change your system but i dont think it would rule it out straight away, the main obstical in this country is people stuck in the same regime and have the mindset that robots dont work, i've seen the cows coming in from long distances on a robot farm before and it looked bloody impressive and the main insentive was fresh grass knowing that once they went through the robot, the went to a new paddock, Cows are a lot smarter than people give them credit for and i think the robot actually shows this

jfh

have been following this thread for some time now, i think it has spun out and deserves it's own seperate thread.
saying that i'm going to add my own question, is there much trouble with the robot? if they break down are they easily serviced and are parts easy to get?

Pacoa

i know they were trialing them in new zealand on grass only diets where the enticement would be fresh grass but if a cow was getting ration at the shoulders and the farmer wanted to stop feeding it how would he entice the cow to milk herself in that senario.

Fresh grass is the answer to that. The A/B system seemed to work well at that farm but at 2.4 milkings a day i felt it was a little low. An A/B/C system would be better where they would move to fresh grass every 8 hours. You should get closer to 3 milkings per day that way and maybe use less concentrate.

a robotic system would not be compatible with many dairy farms around this country who have to walk cows across roads or long distances

Crossing a road would be out unless you put in a culvert but i don't see why walking long distances wouldn't work. If the padock is empty of grass and the cow knows there's ration and fresh grass the other side of the robot i don't see why she wouldn't come back.

is there much trouble with the robot? if they break down are they easily serviced and are parts easy to get?

I don't think they give that much trouble but there's bound to be breakdowns now and then as for getting parts i think lely have all the parts on hand at the lely centres. They'd have to cause there'd be no way you could wait a day or two for parts to be delievered from holland. The machine would have to be got going within 12 hours.

irishh_bob

F.D wrote: »

Most cows around the country over the past few years have been in for longer that ever before with all the rain, yes crossing the road would put a end to the robot idea unless you were willing to change your system but i dont think it would rule it out straight away, the main obstical in this country is people stuck in the same regime and have the mindset that robots dont work, i've seen the cows coming in from long distances on a robot farm before and it looked bloody impressive and the main insentive was fresh grass knowing that once they went through the robot, the went to a new paddock, Cows are a lot smarter than people give them credit for and i think the robot actually shows this

i would have thought the practice of extended grazing has reduced the amount of time dairy cows spend inside , time was , cows didnt go out each spring till april 15 th and were back in by the middle of october , as for cows walking long distances not being an obstacle , i know someone who threw them out a number of years back for that precise reason

Pacoa

as for cows walking long distances not being an obstacle , i know someone who threw them out a number of years back for that precise reason

Was he giving them too much grass or something cause if ya fill em with grass they'll just lie down and go nowhere. Have to keep the strip wire in and judge the allocation accurately.

Humpty Dumpty

The lely centers have to be 2 hours from any robots. Was on a farm in the uk the last year and an engineer was on farm for a breakdown was 18 months previous. Pretty impressive considering a machine that runs 24 hours a day. If you had a new tractor running 24 hours a day for 18 months, do you think you would have any problems.
With regard the throwing out the robots. If they are working on 5 farms in the south at the moment than they will work everywhere. Remember guys look at you tube they are working in new zealand and austrailia.
The guy in the journal was getting 2.8 times. People must remember that 99.5 per of farms are only 2 times a day. What is wrong with 2.4 and 3.2 in the winter. High yielders on the show the last day were 4.2 during the winter. And again remember that cows are generally housed for 6 months. They were the last three years. Remember you do not have to be there early morning and evening. Dairy companies and advisors in this country love to talk them down. Good old Ireland. No Politics , Ya right!!!!!

browned

was just wondering how do u work the grazing system with the robots? i can't figure out how u'd move cows to new pastures. do they get drafted to new pastures after a certain amount of milkings, r does the farmer constantly move up the strip wire daily to keep cows in new pasture?

Humpty Dumpty

Have a read of this

CASE STUDY: RIDGE FARM

May 2010

The Lely Astronaut robotic milking system and Grazeway Gate
Control combination gives a complete solution for
milk production from pasture

“For a small farm like ours the purchase of the Lely robot system has really been ‘a no brainer’. We
can still graze our cows as before to produce cheaper milk from grass, we’ve eliminated the need for
hired help and we have increased milk production by 20% per cow on average. Life without twice a
day milking is just great.” - Chris Jerman
Chris Jerman a tenant farmer running a small dairy farm in
Chirbury, Powys producing high quality organic milk from a
herd of 65 cows (55 milking) on a pasture orientated input
system. He has a young family and his wife works three full
days each week in a local business.
The farm was originally run by Chris’s father since the early
60’s. In 2007 Chris needed to make a decision on whether
to continue milking and to invest in new milking system to
replace the 6 point Somerset abreast milking parlour that
had come to the end of its life. Chris wanted a system that
would help increase the herd average milk production in
order to provide more farm income. At that time Chris also
employed a hired help, more or less, on a full time basis and finding staff was getting more and more
difficult as well as expensive, therefore the new milking system had to reduce or eliminate the need
for staff expenditure. Pasture grazing is an integral part of the milk production at Ridge Farm
therefore Chris had to ensure that milk could be produced in the same way with the new milking
equipment.
A new conventional milking parlour would reduce milking times to around three hours per day from
the five hours that it took with the old abreast system. However to install a new parlour would mean
a large investment into a new milking shed. Twice a day milking would not increase milk production
without higher input costs and there would still be
manual milking early morning and evening.
Chris looked at robotic milking as an alternative to
buying a conventional parlour. Initially he thought that
there would be issues with pasture grazing and the
upfront higher capital invest required, however, the
finance issue was resolved because there was no
need for major building work which made the cost of a
robot and versus a conventional parlour quite similar.
Lely also provided a purchase package using a
competitive hire purchase agreement (HPI) over ten
years at a fixed cost of £1089 per month. Lely was
also very confident that robotic milking would suit
pasture grazing.
These factors convinced Chris that he could operate robotic milking with his cows grazing with a
supplement of buffer feeding in the barn as before. The Lely robot system fitted very well into his
future plans. One great additional benefit for Chris was the possibility to reduce hired help labour
costs using the robotic milking system. When everything was considered the decision to invest in a
Lely robotic milking system was really quite easy to justify because the lifetime savings would be
exceptionally high compared to using a conventional, twice per day, milking parlour.
The other advantages at the point of investment were:

 Milk yield would increased from an average of 7500 to at least 8500 litres because milking
would increase from 2 times per day to 2.8 times per day annual average.

 Freedom from twice a day milking would give him time to do all other jobs on farm and
manage the business in a more profitable way.

 Flexibility to have a more normal family life rather than be confined to manual milking twice
per day 365 days per year.

Pasture Grazing Using the Lely Astronaut System

Using pasture grazing and robotic milking is easy so long as it is well managed in order that energy
levels match cow intake needs to give optimum milk yields and to ensure cow flows from pasture to
milking are optimised. Cow flow therefore is a key factor; to achieve this, Chris uses the following
management system:

 The Lely Astronaut always delivers some concentrate feed as both an incentive for the cows
to visit and be milked and also as part of the controlled diet to optimise milk yield.

 Buffer feeding is not essential for every herd particularly if the milk yield is based solely on
grass intake from pasture. For higher yielding cows at Ridge Farm buffer feeding is essential
to provide the energy needed for higher milk production.

Buffer feeding was available to the cows when they visited the barn for milking.
Because this was an organic milk production unit the buffer feed used has to
conform to organic milk production regulation and this means that the cows have
to have at least 60% roughage in their diet. The mixer wagon combines the
silage with concentrates to provide the ration for each cow. In the winter the
ration will contain enough concentrate to give 2 kilo per day on average to each
cow. In the summer home grown oats are used as the supplement and on
average 0.75 kilos of concentrate are given daily to each animal.

 The cows at Ridge farm are on grass from March
through to November (weather permitting). Cows like to
be outside on grass and to be together as a herd.

 The farm pasture area is split into 12 paddocks around
2-3 acres per paddock. There are tracks and gates to
control which grazing areas are used at any time. Using
an A and B paddock system (Seven of the paddocks are
classified as A and these are the day time grazing areas and five of the paddocks are
classified as B and these are night time grazing areas) cows enter either the barn for milking
and buffer feed or to the paddocks for grazing. Movement from the pasture to the barn and
from the barn to pasture is controlled by the Lely Grazeway gate system. Control Settings in
both the Lely Astronaut and Grazeway gate system are synchronised to ensure that cows do
not visit the milking system more than necessary (to maximise milking time capacity for the
robot) as well as ensure the cows have freedom to feed from pasture and buffer feeding
areas.

 The cows move from paddock A to
paddock B controlled by the Lely
system. In mid year Paddock A and
Paddock B are available from
midnight to noon and from noon to
midnight respectively. Early and late
in the year Paddock A (day
paddock) and Paddock B (night
paddock) are available for shorter
periods to match grass availability.

 Using the A and B paddock system
ensures cows go from grazing to
milking consistently from March to
November. The average number of
visits to the milking robot is just over
4-times per day (from 2 times for cows in late lactation and 5 times for cows in early
lactation)

 Ridge Farm used controlled strip grazing initially to control grazing. Now that the cows are in
tune with the Lely milking and grazing process generally there is no need for strict strip
grazing control albeit there must still be control of the available grass and buffer feeding to
ensure good cow flow for optimum milking.

Advantages since the robot was installed:

 The Lely robot with the Grazeway pasture entry and exit
system has allowed Chris to run his Holstein–Friesian
and some Norwegian Red crossbred herd using pasture
from March to November to provide a major part of the
input energy to produce high quality organic milk.

 Milk yield has increased from 7500 litres to 8900 litres
since the new Lely Astronaut was installed in December
2008, and this is still increasing. The average number of
milkings per cow is 2.6 to 2.8 times per day while at
grass and 2.9 to 3.1 while housed full time.

 The average milk price for organic milk is around 29
pence per litre and so the increased milk production
provides extra income of around £22,000 per year. The
increased feed cost (from 1500 kilo to 2000 kilos per cow
per year) to match the higher milk production is £8250.
Net income increase for the farm is now £13,000.

 Since the robot has been installed there is no longer any
need for hired help. This has saved the farm in the region
£15,000.

 In the past, milking the herd took 5-hours per day (long day from 5.30am to 6.00pm). Today
times spend on the cleaning milking equipment and buffer feeding is no more than 1 hour
per day. Time is better used for farm management, grass management, harvesting and
husbandry. Chris can also concentrate on improving efficiency using the data generated
from the Lely T4C (Time 4 Cows) software management system for better feeding, animal
welfare, fertility and milk yields which all have a positive impact on farm profitability.

 As for a more flexible way of life: The robot has made this a reality for Chris and his family.
Before the robot everything revolved around twice a day manual milking. Now the family has
a more normal life together, where one parent can go out to work leaving the other to
manage the farm and look after the young family when necessary. A weekend away is no
longer an issue (with help from Chris’s father), and grass cutting can go on into the early

evening if required.

Pacoa

And if you want more reading after that last post have a look at this 90 page ebook.

http://www.futuredairy.com.au/FutureDairy2/pdfs/AMS_Guidelines_2010_Web.pdf

Humpty Dumpty

Good post. But away too complicated. Too many gates in the delaval system. compared to the free cow traffic system.

Pacoa

Have delaval a grazeway gate or something similar or would i be right in thinking that lely have a patent on it?

Humpty Dumpty

I dont think they have a patent on it. But I cannot find anything on there website one similar. I think it is the feed first theory is there major problem. Watch the system how there cows are moving around the house on there website. I just don't know how it will operate on grazing. Maybe the guys from Lely in Cork would answer your question

F.D

The Article on ridge farm is very interesting Humpty, i wonder how much Buffer feeding they require its small enough acres i think around 36, for 55 cows, it would be similar to what i have behind the sheds but the rest is across a road (which was ruling out a robot for me initally)