Are Arsenal now favourites for the league?

flahavaj

OPENROAD wrote: »

Yes we are weak at CB IF we get injuries, but as I said you take key players out of other teams they will also suffer, look at Chelsea, takde Drogba and Anelka out, lets see how they do.

I don't buy the whole squad is weak, Arsenal like any team that ever wins the league need luck along the way.

Harsh on Almunia, he has had personal issues over the last couple of months which I think have had an impact on him

So lets see:

No adequate replacement for RVP.

No adequate replacement for Fabregas (see the fact they risked and indeed did re-injure him to break the stalemate today).

No adequate replacement for Song.

No adequate replacement for either centre half.

4/5 players in the squad (Rosicky/Eduardo/Nasri/Walcott) who are injury-listed as often as they play.

But you still hide behind the argument all top teams would struggle to replace their key players.

Maybe they would, but United and Chelsea would cope better with injuries to players in all those positions mentioned above.

Arsenal's squad doesn't measure up, face it.

OPENROAD

flahavaj wrote: »

But you still hide behind the argument all top teams would struggle to replace their key players.

.

I will, other teams drop points and it is down to key players missing, Arsenal drop points and it is down to our squad.

segadreamcast

cson wrote: »

http://www.paddypower.com/football/uk-football/premier-league

There you go; Villa 50/1 with 1/4 odds for a top 2 finish. I think that may look big around 6pm tomorrow.

Cough!

Kirnsy

flahavaj wrote: »

So lets see:

No adequate replacement for RVP.

No adequate replacement for Fabregas (see the fact they risked and indeed did re-injure him to break the stalemate today).

No adequate replacement for Song.

No adequate replacement for either centre half.

4/5 players in the squad (Rosicky/Eduardo/Nasri/Walcott) who are injury-listed as often as they play.

But you still hide behind the argument all top teams would struggle to replace their key players.

Maybe they would, but United and Chelsea would cope better with injuries to players in all those positions mentioned above.

Arsenal's squad doesn't measure up, face it.

you could just say : united - no adequate replacement for Ronaldo. i guess that means they're fúcked.




oh no wait. they are second.

Pepe LeFrits

flahavaj wrote: »

Maybe they would, but United and Chelsea would cope better with injuries to players in all those positions mentioned above.

Yeah they've done a brilliant job of it so far this season

eagle eye

Kirnsy wrote: »

while what you say about dependency is true to a point; Fabregas is the most important cog in the Arsenal machine...people also said the same about RVP and they've not done too badly without him so far.

and where i disagree is where you rule them out "because of that dependency". You could easily say that Utd without rooney and chelsea without Drogba could be ruled out by the same train of thought.

You can't say the same about Chelsea or United.
Chelsea have Kalou on the bench, while he is not as good he is a top class player in his own right. Rooney would be a big loss to United but Michael Owen is a top class replacement, Arsenal don't have the same depth as United or Chelsea and thats why they suffer when those players are injured.

Arsenal and Liverpool are in the same boat that way, if Gerrard or Torres go out they don't have an adequate replacement for either one.

flahavaj

OPENROAD wrote: »

I will, other teams drop points and it is down to key players missing, Arsenal drop points and it is down to our squad.

If you're referring to United then in fairness no squad in the history of the game could have coped with the absence of their entire senior squad of defenders and reserve defenders bar one! Eight defenders injured at once is crazy. It was an unprecedented injury crisis, a total one off, the likes of which I've never seen a team suffer in all my years watching the game, which not only decimated their defence but midfield as well due to players being played out of position.

I think United and Chelsea have proven over the last few years their squads are more than capable of mounting a chalenge on 3 or sometimes 4 different fronts.

The jury still remains out on Arsenal's however.

greendom

eagle eye wrote: »

You can't say the same about Chelsea or United.
Chelsea have Kalou on the bench, while he is not as good he is a top class player in his own right. Rooney would be a big loss to United but Michael Owen is a top class replacement, Arsenal don't have the same depth as United or Chelsea and thats why they suffer when those players are injured.

Arsenal and Liverpool are in the same boat that way, if Gerrard or Torres go out they don't have an adequate replacement for either one.

Arsenal may not have the quality of Chelsea or Man U in terms of back-up but they are way ahead of Liverpool in that regard.

OPENROAD

flahavaj wrote: »

If you're referring to United then in fairness no squad in the history of the game could have coped with the absence of their entire senior squad of defenders and reserve defenders bar one! Eight defenders injured at once is crazy. It was an unprecedented injury crisis, a total one off, the likes of which I've never seen a team suffer in all my years watching the game, which not only decimated their defence but midfield as well due to players being played out of position.

I think United and Chelsea have proven over the last few years their squads are more than capable of mounting a chalenge on 3 or sometimes 4 different fronts.

The jury still remains out on Arsenal's however.

In general not just utd, if utd are missing say rooney and berbatov, and utd drop points, it is becuase of injuries, If Arsenal are missing RVP and Bendter and drop points our squad is weak.

Pepe LeFrits

Not sure what Michael Owen has done recently to warrant being labelled a top class replacement either!

flahavaj

greendom wrote: »

Arsenal may not have the quality of Chelsea or Man U in terms of back-up but they are way ahead of Liverpool in that regard.

Lets remember its genuine title contenders we're discussing here lads.;)

Kirnsy

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Not sure what Michael Owen has done recently to warrant being labelled a top class replacement either!

i think it was the revealing fact that he had around 5 shots on target so far in the league that propelled him to be labelled top class.

flahavaj

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Not sure what Michael Owen has done recently to warrant being labelled a top class replacement either!

A hat-trick in the Champions League is more than say, Kalou, Sturridge, Bendtner, Eduardo or any other back up striker you care to mention.;)

Son Of A Vidic

Anyone but Chelsea will do.

d22ontour

Think i posted a few weeks back that Le Arse shouldn't be discounted and it's pretty straightforward that this seasons winners will be around the 80-84* point margin,Are Arsenal capable of it ? Indeed they are imo.

*Am saying 80-84 as thats double what Chelsea have at the minute and will be enough to win it imo.

RedivideR

To be honest I reckon that the winner will end up with more than 84. Top three have already dropped a lot of points in the first half of the season and can't see whoever goes on to win it dropping as many in the second half of the season.

And I really can't see how people are still going on about Arsenal's lack of strength in depth when, after once again being hit with a host of injuries this season, we are virtually neck and neck with Chelsea and United (give or take a game in hand).
Yes United also got hit with a ridiculously unlucky defender crisis, and they have dealt with it admirably. Chelsea have been pretty lucky so far with keeping key players like Drogba, Terry and Lampard fit. So I don't see our squad as being particularly more fragile than those two, and we certainly have more quality through the squad than Liverpool.

OPENROAD

RedivideR wrote: »

And I really can't see how people are still going on about Arsenal's lack of strength in depth when, after once again being hit with a host of injuries this season, we are virtually neck and neck with Chelsea and United (give or take a game in hand).
Yes United also got hit with a ridiculously unlucky defender crisis, and they have dealt with it admirably. Chelsea have been pretty lucky so far with keeping key players like Drogba, Terry and Lampard fit. So I don't see our squad as being particularly more fragile than those two, and we certainly have more quality through the squad than Liverpool.

Spot on.

Paleface

RedivideR wrote: »

To be honest I reckon that the winner will end up with more than 84. Top three have already dropped a lot of points in the first half of the season and can't see whoever goes on to win it dropping as many in the second half of the season.

And I really can't see how people are still going on about Arsenal's lack of strength in depth when, after once again being hit with a host of injuries this season, we are virtually neck and neck with Chelsea and United (give or take a game in hand).
Yes United also got hit with a ridiculously unlucky defender crisis, and they have dealt with it admirably. Chelsea have been pretty lucky so far with keeping key players like Drogba, Terry and Lampard fit. So I don't see our squad as being particularly more fragile than those two, and we certainly have more quality through the squad than Liverpool.

Chelsea have never really had what I would call an injury crisis. Not to the same extent as Arsenal, United and Liverpool have had to endure anyway.

They are extremely lucky in that regard.

magma69

How on earth could you pose that question when they are 7 points behind a team that were favourites to win the league in the first place. Arsenal will drop plenty of points in the new year too with the loss of African Nations players. I'm not saying they are out of the race (although I seriously doubt they will win it) but it is incredibly stupid to say they are favourites. You can bet your bottom dollar United won't be dropping too many points in the second half of the season either. They always step it up a gear after Xmas.

eagle eye

Paleface wrote: »

Chelsea have never really had what I would call an injury crisis. Not to the same extent as Arsenal, United and Liverpool have had to endure anyway.

They are extremely lucky in that regard.

Chelsea played without Lampard, Terry, Drogba, Ashley Cole, Carvalho, Bosingwa and Cech for a game this season where injuries, some niggles and some long term kept those players out of the starting lineup. Thats a list that would destroy any other club.

The team that started was

Hilario
Ivanovic Alex Ferreira Belletti
Joe Cole Ballack Deco Malouda
Anelka Sturridge

They had Kalou and Essien on the bench. They just have a ridiculous panel.The game was against Bolton and they won 4-0. They played a team without a number of those players too against Athletico Madrid and beat them 4-0 also.

You can take 8 players out of that team and they still have a world class lineup.

PHB

This whole squad argument I think is a load of bollocks. I think Arsenal might have slightly less top class players than United or Chelsea, but not massively so. Fabregas and Van Persie are up there with Lampard and Drogba, or Ferdinand and Rooney. United and Chelsea however I would argue have a slightly higher level of 2nd tier players and I think everyone would agree that Arsenal's defense isn't as good, but it's still good enough.

I think the reason Arsenal can't win it is because they are missing one of their best players. If we lost Rooney, there's no way we'd win the league. If Chelsea lost Drogba, Id' be smiling because I'd know the league was ours.

We could cope for a period without them, and thats the test of a squad, but a season long injury would be disasterious.

gosplan

flahavaj wrote: »

A hat-trick in the Champions League is more than say, Kalou, Sturridge, Bendtner, Eduardo or any other back up striker you care to mention.;)

Nope, he's rubbish these days. He's simply not competitive.

Fergie got it right a couple of years ago with Larsson but this time it's gone very wrong.

Spiritoftheseventies

Think fabregas will be the key to Arsenal pushing for the title. made the big difference yesterday

Son Of A Vidic

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Not sure what Michael Owen has done recently to warrant being labelled a top class replacement either!

Totally agree, Owen has not been consistent for many years now. I think Ferguson would be better off given one of his talented young strikers games rather than Owen.

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

Lets remember its genuine title contenders we're discussing here lads.;)

Remember the season Arsenal finished 30 points ahead of the pool. Subsequently the next season they were on a run of 49 games unbeaten (carried over from the previous season), lost one game and lost the plot totally. Some folks have very short memories.

bayviewclose

bayviewclose wrote: »

Remember the season Arsenal finished 30 points ahead of the pool. Subsequently the next season they were on a run of 49 games unbeaten (carried over from the previous season), lost one game and lost the plot totally. Some folks have very short memories.

Pool can hardly be called title contenders anymore in all fairness

Spiritoftheseventies

No but Arsenal have flattered to deceive before. We have finished above them for at least three of the last four seasons. But yes would think the league is beyond us at this stage. But no point throwing in the towel. If rafa is serious about keeping his job he should tell the fans what his projected points finish will be. We are well capable of putting a good run together but its up to the players to get it going again. Villa will be tough but I think we really need to begin well and score inside first half hour. The longer we leave it the harder it will be.

Y2J_MUFC

bayviewclose wrote: »

Think fabregas will be the key to Arsenal pushing for the title. made the big difference yesterday

Thank you Captain Obvious. Do you think Rooney will be important for United? How about Lampard/Drogba for Chelsea, or Torres/Gerrard for Liverpool?

ShoulderChip

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Thank you Captain Obvious. Do you think Rooney will be important for United? How about Lampard/Drogba for Chelsea, or Torres/Gerrard for Liverpool?

not funny, not insightful, fail

hudsonriver

If the score stays the same in London, whats that one win in six games?
Tis a strange session all right