How to leave the Protestant church?

ShroomPicker

Hi. A friend recently told me of a website, www.countmeout.ie, which is for those that wish to leave the Catholic church to do so. I was wondering if there is an equivalent website for those who are Protestant and wish to leave? I was born into a Protestant family and never bought into any of it and I wish to be officially distanced from christianity.

PDN

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Hi. A friend recently told me of a website, www.countmeout.ie, which is for those that wish to leave the Catholic church to do so. I was wondering if there is an equivalent website for those who are Protestant and wish to leave? I was born into a Protestant family and never bought into any of it and I wish to be officially distanced from christianity.

It depends which Protestant Church you're talking about. Some don't keep any records of members. With others you have to renew the membership every year.

Are you talking Church of Ireland? Methodist? Presbyterian? Brethren? Baptist?

ShroomPicker

I'm Church of Ireland.

tudlytops

have you approched Church of Ireland. and asked them?

ShroomPicker

tudlytops wrote: »

have you approched Church of Ireland. and asked them?

No I haven't, I was hoping there's be a website like there is for Catholics. If not then I have no idea how to go about it, so any info would be appreciated.

tudlytops

ShroomPicker wrote: »

No I haven't, I was hoping there's be a website like there is for Catholics. If not then I have no idea how to go about it, so any info would be appreciated.

I understand, i wouldn't like to have to approach a church to say I'm quitting either.
But you probably will have to.
Why not just walk away, does it matter if they have some record or not, really?

ShroomPicker

I walked away many years ago, about 15 years ago. It has always niggled me that I'm officially listed as being a Protestant Christian, when in reality I am not. I know I could just distance myself like I have already done, but for me its not enough. I want the piece of mind of knowing I'm officially a non-christian.

PDN

tudlytops wrote: »

I understand, i wouldn't like to have to approach a church to say I'm quitting either.
But you probably will have to.
Why not just walk away, does it matter if they have some record or not, really?

I don't think it's comparing like with like.

Roman Catholicism claims people as members based on the fact that they were baptised into the Church.

Most Protestant churches would not make any such claim. So it may be that there is a historical record that you were baptised as a baby - but unfortunately the website has not been invented that can change history.

Maybe one of our Church of Ireland posters could clarify this for us? I suspect that you probably aren't currently counted in anywhere, so there may not be anything to be counted out from.

ShroomPicker

PDN wrote: »

I don't think it's comparing like with like.

Roman Catholicism claims people as members based on the fact that they were baptised into the Church.

Most Protestant churches would not make any such claim. So it may be that there is a historical record that you were baptised as a baby - but unfortunately the website has not been invented that can change history.

Maybe one of our Church of Ireland posters could clarify this for us? I suspect that you probably aren't currently counted in anywhere, so there may not be anything to be counted out from.

I don't need to change history, I just need to be removed from Christianity. If Protestants don't keep such records then cool, no need for me to worry anymore, but I'm fairly sure I am registered, and I had my confirmation when in secondary school (I was forced to).

Soul Winner

:rolleyes:

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Hi. A friend recently told me of a website, www.countmeout.ie, which is for those that wish to leave the Catholic church to do so. I was wondering if there is an equivalent website for those who are Protestant and wish to leave? I was born into a Protestant family and never bought into any of it and I wish to be officially distanced from christianity.

"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." Luke 6:45. You either believe it and speak it forth or you don't and speak it forth. That determines your inness or outness of any religion or any world view really. The Christian says: "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:10. And James says that the mouth is the bridal of the body, James 3:2, and he was right. We will defend something with more passion that we have said, than we would the same thing if we hadn't said it. That's why we find it very hard to admit when we are wrong. It takes a real man/woman to admit that they were wrong about something that they previously thought they were right about. So whatever it is that you believe to be true, be that Catholicism or Protestantism or Atheism then when you mouth it with the tongue, that is what defines the person you are. If you don't know either way or have not been swayed to one position or the other then you are like a leaf in the wind, having no root in anything of substance. I can respect atheists who take a stand and speak forth what they believe to be true, but I hate agnostics who won't take a leap of faith on anything, who just sit on the fence and put everyone else down for actually taking a stand on something. It takes balls to take a stand on something that you believe to be true and most agnostics I've met haven't got any. Not sure where all that came from or what it has to do with the OP or the price of onions but there you go...

P.S. Just been to see Avatar. WOW!!! :eek:

ShroomPicker

I'm not an atheist or an agnostic. Nor do I believe the teachings of any organised religion. I have my own views which I have come to on my own after years and years of thought on the subject, which I won't elaborate on as this is a Christian thread.

tudlytops

ShroomPicker wrote: »

I don't need to change history, I just need to be removed from Christianity. If Protestants don't keep such records then cool, no need for me to worry anymore, but I'm fairly sure I am registered, and I had my confirmation when in secondary school (I was forced to).

can i ask, why is it so important that there aren't any records? I mean I was raise catholic, I walked away, it doesn't affect me in anyway to no that there are records there of my upbringing.

the way I see it its like anything else i have changed in my life, its part of my past and therefore part of me.

ShroomPicker

tudlytops wrote: »

can i ask, why is it so important that there aren't any records? I mean I was raise catholic, I walked away, it doesn't affect me in anyway to no that there are records there of my upbringing.

the way I see it its like anything else i have changed in my life, its part of my past and therefore part of me.

Its not old records that show I was baptised a christian that are the problem. Its the thought that I might still be regietered as one that is the problem.

Soul Winner

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Its not old records that show I was baptised a christian that are the problem. Its the thought that I might still be regietered as one that is the problem.

Why is that a problem?

tudlytops

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Its not old records that show I was baptised a christian that are the problem. Its the thought that I might still be regietered as one that is the problem.

Tell me to mind my own business as you only asked for information not the Spanish inquisition.

But why does that bother you, I am sore i am still registered somewhere, but it has no effect on my life, so I'm not bothered.

ShroomPicker

Soul Winner wrote: »

Why is that a problem?

Because I oppose the christian church very strongly and I do not want to be still registered as a christian...

ShroomPicker

tudlytops wrote: »

Tell me to mind my own business as you only asked for information not the Spanish inquisition.

But why does that bother you, I am sore i am still registered somewhere, but it has no effect on my life, so I'm not bothered.

Its just something that bothers me whenever I think about it. It might sound like a trivial thing to most people but to me its very important.

Soul Winner

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Because I oppose the christian church very strongly and I do not want to be still registered as a christian...

If I knew how you would be able to go about unregistering then I would be happy to oblige and tell you but I don't, but best of luck with it regardless.

ShroomPicker

Soul Winner wrote: »

If I knew how you would be able to go about unregistering then I would be happy to oblige and tell you but I don't, but best of luck with it regardless.

Cheers

philologos

OP: I'd advise you to send a letter to the Bishop of the relevant diocese where you were baptised.

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Because I oppose the christian church very strongly and I do not want to be still registered as a christian...

I must ask you though. What are your issues with:
1) The Anglican Church (In this case the Church of Ireland)
2) Christianity in general.

ShroomPicker

I won't go fully into my issues with the church as this is a section of the forum for Christians, and while I do not want to be a Christian, I respect those that do and so shall hold my tongue on the matter. I would only offend people if I elaborated, and that's not my aim. Lets just say I see through the hypocrisy.

It is not the Anglican church in particular that I have the problem with (The Catholic church is far, far worse), but organised religion as a whole. If I was born a Muslim, for example, I would feel the same - I would want to be removed from the organisation. I just want to be free from all of it.

philologos

ShroomPicker wrote: »

I won't go fully into my issues with the church as this is a section of the forum for Christians, and while I do not want to be a Christian, I respect those that do and so shall hold my tongue on the matter. I would only offend people if I elaborated, and that's not my aim. Lets just say I see through the hypocrisy.

You're right, if there was a church with no hypocrites, it'd be empty. Empty precisely because not one of us are perfect.

I have issues with how Christianity is often executed, but the reality is when humans are involved, there will always be issues. We just have to learn how to deal with them in the best manner possible.

ShroomPicker wrote: »

It is not the Anglican church in particular that I have the problem with (The Catholic church is far, far worse), but organised religion as a whole. If I was born a Muslim, for example, I would feel the same - I would want to be removed from the organisation. I just want to be free from all of it.

How would this make it any more free?

ShroomPicker

Jakkass wrote: »

You're right, if there was a church with no hypocrites, it'd be empty. Empty precisely because not one of us are perfect.

True, including me. But I don't feel that belonging to a church will make me any more perfect.

Jakkass wrote: »

How would this make it any more free?

It would make me feel free. Free in the knowledge that I have found my own path in life and have no need for the celebrations and rituals that belong to mainstream religions.

Excelsior

ShroomPicker wrote: »

If Protestants don't keep such records then cool, no need for me to worry anymore, but I'm fairly sure I am registered, and I had my confirmation when in secondary school (I was forced to).

It occurs to me that your ignorance about the religion of your family betrays that the years of private thought you engaged on to become so opposed to Jesus might not have gone deep enough. Furthermore, how is Islam an "organised religion" in the same was as the CofI?

To address your initial concern: Without attending communion or contributing for years, you can be certain your diocese no longer counts you and you control your own census return...

philologos

ShroomPicker wrote: »

It would make me feel free. Free in the knowledge that I have found my own path in life and have no need for the celebrations and rituals that belong to mainstream religions.

What path is this? Genuinely curious?

ShroomPicker

You would laugh and call me a nutcase if I told you, as would most people. Its something that cannot be comprehended without experiencing it. I have no wish to preach my views to people though. I don't claim to know the real answers to anything but I feel I'm going in the correct direction for me.

Fanny Cradock

ShroomPicker wrote: »

You would laugh and call me a nutcase if I told you, as would most people. Its something that cannot be comprehended without experiencing it. I have no wish to preach my views to people though. I don't claim to know the real answers to anything but I feel I'm going in the correct direction for me.

I don't think we would call you a nutcase (it's generally not our style here), but we might disagree with you. Anyway, could it be that Excelsior's post is worth a little meditation on your part? Perhaps in rejecting religion (a construct of man that is open to all manner of corruptions) you don't fully understand what Jesus is about.

ShroomPicker

Sorry Excelsior, I didn't spot your post before. I forgot all about the census. Thing is, there is no word for what I am... maybe I'll make one up for the next census :P

To Fanny Cradock: I do understand what the notion of Jesus is about. I don't believe there ever was a Jesus, but I get what the figurehead stood for. The whole idea of love and compassion and forgiveness etc, I'm down with that, but those things are just common sense. I don't need to belong to a man made organisation.

Fanny Cradock

ShroomPicker wrote: »

To Fanny Cradock: I do understand what the notion of Jesus is about. I don't believe there ever was a Jesus, but I get what the figurehead stood for. The whole idea of love and compassion and forgiveness etc, I'm down with that, but those things are just common sense. I don't need to belong to a man made organisation.

Interesting! Do you have any specific reasons for doubting Christ existed?

ShroomPicker

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Interesting! Do you have any specific reasons for doubting Christ existed?

I have never seen proof that he did. Also, just the other day a Christian was arguing with me, saying that no religions existed before Christianity... that kind of blindness is quite terrifying. I don't subscribe to blind faith.

ravydavygravy

OP: as suggested, ring the bishop of the diocese where you were baptised, and ask if there's a procedure. Most likely there is an identical procedure to that of the Catholic church, given that they come from the same background.

I know the guys who run countmeout.ie, so I'll ask them if they have had similar queries.

Dave

ShroomPicker

Thanks man. The problem is I was baptised in Australia... so it'll be a bit harder for me to get hold of the relevant people. I'll try though.

ravydavygravy

Surely you are Church of Australia then? You'll need to find specific details for them, since defection methods can be country specific: http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=1551&kb_header_id=33981&order=kb_rank%20ASC&kb_id=33241#

ShroomPicker

Well, my family left Australia when I was very young, my mother is Irish. So I really am not sure about the whole thing. Until I decided to distance myself from the church, my family attended the local COI church. My Primary and secondary schools were COI. I may have been baptised again once we came to Ireland but I don't know. I was confirmed at age 13 or 14 in a COI church. Its all so confusing =/

Greaney

I'm a former Catholic converted to Presbyterian and I was tempted to go on the "count me out" website because I'm aware that records of baptised children are used by the Catholic Church statisticly. That means that when the Catholic church quote figures with regard to.... I dunno schools etc. they can use me as a number.

I'm not aware however that Protestant churches are using their 'old' figures. In fact, many of their denominations have published a rise in attendees in the last 10 years which leads me to believe that they use current census of their attendance for figures and there's no need to do the 'count me out' thing. Unlike the Catholics, if ya don't go, they don't count you.

homer911

The Presbyterian Church keeps records at a local level which would be constantly updated - covering families and individuals that have either a basic connection with the church and those in full formal membership. Each church submits financial and statistical data to Church House in Belfast on an annual basis which reflects their current membership, average attendance etc. It is these stats that they would use for general reporting. If someone stops attending a Presbyterian church, they simply drop off the stats....

PDN

So, if you try to get the Protestants to 'count you out', you might be rather deflated to find you don't count for anything anyway!

bambooman2

I am a Church of Ireland member and also a Select Vestry member (essentially the parish management committee). I can confirm that we don't count people in at any level unless they attend church at least twice in a year.

The RC church is different in that once you are baptised by it they count you in whether you like it or not. AIUI until recently it was impossible to leave (in their eyes) fullstop.

Therefore there is no requirement to leave the C of I if you don't want to be counted in. Officially you are not 'in the fold' if you are not attending.

This is a slightly unusual post in that the trend these days in the C of I is for people joining not leaving!

homer911

bambooman2 wrote: »

I am a Church of Ireland member and also a Select Vestry member (essentially the parish management committee). I can confirm that we don't count people in at any level unless they attend church at least twice in a year.

The RC church is different in that once you are baptised by it they count you in whether you like it or not. AIUI until recently it was impossible to leave (in their eyes) fullstop.

Therefore there is no requirement to leave the C of I if you don't want to be counted in. Officially you are not 'in the fold' if you are not attending.

This is a slightly unusual post in that the trend these days in the C of I is for people joining not leaving!

Out of curiosity bambooman, how do you determine if someone has attended twice in a year (which seems a very easy method of qualification)?

Could I be considered a member of 26 churches or is there some more formal measure of membership?

I know in the Presbyterian Church, these is a distinction between formal membership and association

Xluna

ShroomPicker wrote: »

You would laugh and call me a nutcase if I told you, as would most people. Its something that cannot be comprehended without experiencing it.

...You're not David Icke are you?:D

bambooman2

The two visits per year would seem a bit hard to keep track of but generally the communities are small. Between the church wardens who prepare the church for worship and hand out prayer books each Sunday and the Rector they will know if they have seen parishioners over a period of time. If a given parishioner hasn't been seen in some time they will drop off the list. It follows therefore that the parish will only count in people who attend service who are known. People who belong/have belonged to the C of I fall into three categories. A third go every week, a third go infrequently, a third don't go at all. Generally the parish will have a very good idea of what category people fall into.

Slav

Again out of curiosity but why do you maintain those lists of members at all?

philologos

A major reason is visiting, so that the minister can take an active interest in what is happening in their congregation.

Slav

So purely statistical reasons? Why record the names then?

Or is it used a list of voters when a parish related issues are decided or something like that?

Rev Hellfire

Slav wrote: »

So purely statistical reasons? Why record the names then?

Its a record of an historical event.

Or is it used a list of voters when a parish related issues are decided or something like that?

The primary record of interest is what's put down on official state forms.
Personally I think people who get worked up about getting their name removed really need to work on that chip on their shoulder.

If you don't want to be counted don't put it down on forms you fill in and don't say you are to get into a school or have a church wedding etc.

Anything more is posturing and juvenile sticking it to the man.

Excelsior

Slav wrote: »

So purely statistical reasons? Why record the names then?

Or is it used a list of voters when a parish related issues are decided or something like that?

i'm in a presbyterian church and the primary reason is that because our denomination works as a democracy, voting membership must have some meaning beyond "joe off the street wants to have the sexy blonde as the next minister in the local proddie church"

at the same time, you don't want to be stupidly exclusive so we set the bar low: attend communion once in the last 2 years and at least 1c donation to the freewill offering

a good secondary reason for us in my local church is that we're growing. we're going to need to find a new building in the next year or two. that will take a lot of clever intricate planning and generous donating but we also want to time it right. weekly head counts help us chart this growth.

and third, as jackass says, keeping track of this kind of thing, especially today when people travel so much for work, is very helpful as we seek to meet pastoral needs of the community.

kelly1

ShroomPicker wrote: »

Hi. A friend recently told me of a website, www.countmeout.ie, which is for those that wish to leave the Catholic church to do so. I was wondering if there is an equivalent website for those who are Protestant and wish to leave? I was born into a Protestant family and never bought into any of it and I wish to be officially distanced from christianity.

Hello SP, I'm sorry to hear about your decision. It makes a change from a Catholic wanting the leave the Church!

Do you mind me asking why you no longer wish to be considered Christian? Do you object to Christian doctrines? Is there something about Jesus you dislike? Do you just disbelieve what the bible tells us?

I wish you well.

God bless,
Noel.

Emme

bambooman2 wrote: »

The two visits per year would seem a bit hard to keep track of but generally the communities are small. Between the church wardens who prepare the church for worship and hand out prayer books each Sunday and the Rector they will know if they have seen parishioners over a period of time. If a given parishioner hasn't been seen in some time they will drop off the list. It follows therefore that the parish will only count in people who attend service who are known. People who belong/have belonged to the C of I fall into three categories. A third go every week, a third go infrequently, a third don't go at all. Generally the parish will have a very good idea of what category people fall into.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount the individual gives to the sustentation fund :rolleyes:

I was born COI, baptised, went to the primary and secondary schools. From childhood I found the COI to be obsessed with money and status and the children of poorer families in my parish never got picked for parts in plays etc. in GFS, Boys Brigade or primary school. A lot of what goes on in the COI really rankles me - the pressure to marry inside your faith, the petty smallmindedness of the COI, that sort of thing. In my opinion the COI is a cold, heartless organisation which is only concerned with appearances and being seen to be liberal while it is anything but. When a family member got ill and had to go to St Pats we were shunned by several members of the church. That made me so angry - it was so at variance with the message preached at us from the pulpit by the minister but my experience of the COI is that people say one thing, do another and the biggest sins of all are poverty and ignominy.

At least you've solved ShroomPicker's problem.

homer911

Emme wrote: »

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount the individual gives to the sustentation fund :rolleyes:

I was born COI, baptised, went to the primary and secondary schools. From childhood I found the COI to be obsessed with money and status and the children of poorer families in my parish never got picked for parts in plays etc. in GFS, Boys Brigade or primary school. A lot of what goes on in the COI really rankles me - the pressure to marry inside your faith, the petty smallmindedness of the COI, that sort of thing. In my opinion the COI is a cold, heartless organisation which is only concerned with appearances and being seen to be liberal while it is anything but. When a family member got ill and had to go to St Pats we were shunned by several members of the church. That made me so angry - it was so at variance with the message preached at us from the pulpit by the minister but my experience of the COI is that people say one thing, do another and the biggest sins of all are poverty and ignominy.

At least you've solved ShroomPicker's problem.

Hi Emme

Sorry to hear about your bad experience - it clearly wrankles with you still. I would just say that there is good and bad in every denomination and not to write one off based on one parish.

I can however empathise with you - the Church of Ireland is a very broad church - some parishes could be very like what you describe. I myself started off in the Church of Ireland and could almost put names and faces to some of the people you describe in the particular church that I attended. I started going to an Evangelical Church at 18 and am currently worshiping in a Presbyterian Church.

I would say this to anyone in any church or none - there is no perfect church - if you find one and join it, it will no longer be perfect! But there are other churches - within your denomination or outside it, catholic or protestant, that may suit you better, so do give them a try rather than stop participating in the Christian faith alltogether.

As regards St. Pats - people mostly don't know how to react to mental illness and the illogical reaction is often to fear its contagious! Dont blame people for their fears, or not having the words to express their concern/compassion

bambooman2

Emme - I have to say that my experience of the Church of Ireland hasn't concurred with yours. In fact my family has an active foot in both the RC and C of I camps and I had the opportunity to make an informed choice. I picked the C of I and the spirit in the community was part of this decision. The community I am part of is very open and welcoming and we now have a situation, mainly in the last ten years, where good numbers of ex-RCs who had no previous experience or connection with the C of I are joining. It may not be a huge number in the scheme of things but four ex-RC families joined our parish this Christmas just gone. If the atmosphere was similar to what Emm described this simply would not be possible. The people who join are very valued by our community and other C of I parishes because they tend to be committed, supportive and get stuck in helping to run things. Prejudice is not unique to pockets of the C of I. I personally have heard and witnessed the RC version in action in rural Ireland. This I, hasten to add, does not meant that all rural areas are afflicted with prejudice.

Emme

bambooman2 wrote: »

Emme - I have to say that my experience of the Church of Ireland hasn't concurred with yours. In fact my family has an active foot in both the RC and C of I camps and I had the opportunity to make an informed choice. I picked the C of I and the spirit in the community was part of this decision. The community I am part of is very open and welcoming and we now have a situation, mainly in the last ten years, where good numbers of ex-RCs who had no previous experience or connection with the C of I are joining. It may not be a huge number in the scheme of things but four ex-RC families joined our parish this Christmas just gone. If the atmosphere was similar to what Emm described this simply would not be possible. The people who join are very valued by our community and other C of I parishes because they tend to be committed, supportive and get stuck in helping to run things. Prejudice is not unique to pockets of the C of I. I personally have heard and witnessed the RC version in action in rural Ireland. This I, hasten to add, does not meant that all rural areas are afflicted with prejudice.

I know that the RC church isn't perfect and some parishes (RC and COI) are fairer and more welcoming than others. I'm glad you had a good experience of the COI but I was born into a parish where I never felt welcome from day one. Our family wasn't as wealthy as most of the other families in the parish and we felt excluded from many things because of that. Certain fellow parishioners always blanked us in the street but it got worse when a relative had to go to St Pats. My mother came from another rural parish which wasn't as wealthy but was much friendlier. Her cakes were never good enough for the tweedy oul biddies who organised the parish Sales of Work.

Another thing I didn't like about my parish was that the COI community had a sense of superiority and tended to look down on the RCs. Our family actually got on better with RCs than COIs and when I was about 3 or 4 I asked could we go to church in our neighbours' (RC) church because the people were nicer! I didn't understand the religious differences then. Out of the mouths of babes...