Dole merchants

legal-eagle

For my next theory, why not make long term spongers earn their money i.e. a guy I know 26yo does not want to work, If i offered him a job he wouldn't do it (Has happened). He has no drive what so ever, just a lazy person who likes to get up at 12pm and go to the bookies.

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc. Why should a person like this be able to claim our money every week and live in their mammys house and make themselves an expense to the state?

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

Atleast we would get some bang for our buck if they were made work even 20 hours a week or else just completely cut off their dole. Discuss

Bandit12

legal-eagle wrote: »

For my next theory, why not make long term spongers earn their money i.e. a guy I know 26yo does not want to work, If i offered him a job he wouldn't do it (Has happened). He has no drive what so ever, just a lazy person who likes to get up at 12pm and go to the bookies.

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc. Why should a person like this be able to claim our money every week and live in their mammys house and make themselves an expense to the state?

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

Atleast we would get some bang for our buck if they were made work even 20 hours a week or else just completely cut off their dole. Discuss

Yawn

Joey the lips

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

legal-eagle

You distinguish by saying do 20 hours community service or you're not getting any money simple.

Would you not be prepared to do 20 hours work for you're dole?
If not then why get it all, and again i'm talking about people who are fit to work and have been on the dole for 2+ years.

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

You distinguish by saying do 20 hours community service or you're not getting any money simple.

Would you not be prepared to do 20 hours work for you're dole?
If not then why get it all, and again i'm talking about people who are fit to work and have been on the dole for 2+ years.

I did. I done vol work for vincent de paul and welfare told me it was against my terms where i must be available for work at all times.

So the question is.....

How can I be available for work and look for work if I am doing 20 hours of work a wee..... Especially considering most of the 20 hrs would be spread over the 5 days at 4 hours a day.

Chardee MacDennis

Joey the lips wrote: »

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

so you dont want to work...:rolleyes:

Kirby

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work. The problem is, the jobs that are readily available are undesirable and minimum wage.

I have a qualification. I have a field. Many people are in the same boat. I'm willing to branch out a little as long as its related to what I want to do but I'm not exactly going to jump for joy at the prospect of minimum wage jobs.

I'd prefer to stay unemployed and wait for an opportunity. I am not currently on the dole. I have savings from when I had steady work because I'm not a moron.

The idea of community service for 2+ years people is a good one. I would welcome it. Doubt it will happen though.

mikemac

legal-eagle wrote: »

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc.

And do you think the council staff who currently do this job won't feel threatened that they are being replaced by cheap labour?

Would you like your job to be outsourced to somebody on welfare? Maybe your employer would use it as an excuse to slash your wages as they can replace you. And if you are a solicitor then there are no shortage of candidates who want your job and will work for less;)

Joey the lips

BastardPrince wrote: »

so you dont want to work...:rolleyes:

I never said nor implied that.

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work. The problem is, the jobs that are readily available are undesirable and minimum wage.

I have a qualification. I have a field. Many people are in the same boat. I'm willing to branch out a little as long as its related to what I want to do but I'm not exactly going to jump for joy at the prospect of minimum wage jobs.

I'd prefer to stay unemployed and wait for an opportunity. I am not currently on the dole. I have savings from when I had steady work because I'm not a moron.

The idea of community service for 2+ years people is a good one. I would welcome it. Doubt it will happen though.

Your realising what most are.... You have taken so long to progress in your area of skill that your afraid by becoming a shelf packer over night you will undo all your work....

One of the reasons many stay unemployed.

legal-eagle

Okay doesn't have to be those jobs but some type of work for 3 days a week. Are you happy for the guy I mentioned in my OP to get money every week?

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

Okay doesn't have to be those jobs but some type of work for 3 days a week. Are you happy for the guy I mentioned in my OP to get money every week?

No i am not... I actually agree with you and understand you perfectly. My point is its a loop hole thats hard to close.... Another thing I am actually a carer so stricty speaking I cannot work full time but the dole conditions still apply... ie I cannot volenteer but I cannot get work. Its sh1te....

I am going insane.

But how do you apply the check. How do you determine a waster from a genuine fcuk up in life or an unlucky swine from a total white collar ****e.

Kirby

legal-eagle wrote: »

Okay doesn't have to be those jobs but some type of work for 3 days a week. Are you happy for the guy I mentioned in my OP to get money every week?

Happy? Perhaps not. But I'm not a begrudger. He isn't you. Your reaction to him is very much coming accross as sour grapes. That he is getting "free" money and you have to work for yours. Its a common reaction among the currently employed. It's a somewhat justifiable one too. Nobody likes getting up in the morning while their neighbours are nice and toasty.

But its still petty.

legal-eagle

How do you determine? Like I already said, it's simple...If make them do 20 hours a week and if they don't do it cut their dole.

Its such a simple way of weeding out the spongers!

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

How do you determine? Like I already said, it's simple...If make them do 20 hours a week and if they don't do it cut their dole.

Its such a simple way of weeding out the spongers!

With all due respects your still missing the point. Then all they have to do is claim that they could not find work cause you kept them busy...

By the way fyi your thoughts and notions actually border on socialism which most of boards seems to object to.

legal-eagle

Kirby wrote: »

Happy? Perhaps not. But I'm not a begrudger. He isn't you. Your reaction to him is very much coming accross as sour grapes. That he is getting "free" money and you have to work for yours. Its a common reaction among the currently employed. It's a somewhat justifiable one too. Nobody likes getting up in the morning while their neighbours are nice and toasty.

But its still petty.

Eh sour grapes? Not at all, I want to be successful in my life and I have lots of drive to work, so you're way way off the mark. What bothers me is I pay for him to sit nice and toasty obviously it doesn't bother you at all. Do you work BTW?

mikemac

legal-eagle wrote: »

How do you determine? Like I already said, it's simple...If make them do 20 hours a week and if they don't do it cut their dole.

A condition of it is they are jobseeking.
If they are registered to work one Thursday are you going to employ a supervisor to make sure they show up, have the neccesary manual handling and Health & Safety training and if then have to leave for an interview who is to going to do the roster? If someone lives in a rural village and you assign to work in a town are they getting taxi vouchers? As there certainly aren't any buses

Any idea how much this is going to cost to administer in every town in Ireland?

I've heard of this reactive idea for years and it can work but nobody thinks it through bar a few lines in a post

legal-eagle

Joey the lips wrote: »

With all due respects your still missing the point. Then all they have to do is claim that they could not find work cause you kept them busy...

By the way fyi your thoughts and notions actually border on socialism which most of boards seems to object to.

No, you're missing the point because atleast they would contribute their 20hours service for their money or get nothing. Also it would be 2/3 days so they would have plenty of time to look for a job.

legal-eagle

mikemac wrote: »

A condition of it is they are jobseeking.
If they are registered to work one Thursday are you going to employ a supervisor to make sure they show up, have the neccesary manual handling and Health & Safety training and if then have to leave for an interview who to going to do the roster. If someone lives in a rural village and you assign to work in a town are they getting taxi vouchers? As there certainly aren't any buses

Any idea how much this is going to cost to administer in every town in Ireland?

I'd say it would be worth it to set-up the administartion in the long run, because lazy people would have their dole cut. And the supervisor roles would create employment. All the drug dealers who claim dole money would be off the books for starters;)

mikemac

Taxi vouchers to the nearest town may cost more then the weekly Job Seekers payment

No buses in rural Ireland

AARRRGH

legal-eagle wrote: »

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

I know a lot of "artists" and "musicians". I'm using quotes because they are in fact untalented tossers.

They all work part-time (some of them full-time) yet are long term dole scammers.

They are all doing very well financially.

What bothers me the most about them is that it is so obvious they are scamming the dole (many of them recently bought houses) yet somehow they get away with it.

Makes me sick really.

Joey the lips

legal-eagle wrote: »

No, you're missing the point because atleast they would contribute their 20hours service for their money or get nothing. Also it would be 2/3 days so they would have plenty of time to look for a job.

I dont agree and if your having trouble making an open mind understand imagine the trouble you will have with closed minds

Best of luck I am off to me leaba.

SLUSK

legal-eagle wrote: »

For my next theory, why not make long term spongers earn their money i.e. a guy I know 26yo does not want to work, If i offered him a job he wouldn't do it (Has happened). He has no drive what so ever, just a lazy person who likes to get up at 12pm and go to the bookies.

So why not make him peform some public works like clean graffiti or pick up litter etc. Why should a person like this be able to claim our money every week and live in their mammys house and make themselves an expense to the state?

Now i'm talking specifically about people who have been on the dole for 2+ years and have made no effort to seek employment yet are perfectly able to work!!

Atleast we would get some bang for our buck if they were made work even 20 hours a week or else just completely cut off their dole. Discuss

Here is a radical sollution, abolish the dole. I have never been on it and I do fine. I am voluntarily unemployed and got my own savings.

kev9100

SLUSK wrote: »

Here is a radical sollution, abolish the dole. I have never been on it and I do fine. I am voluntarily unemployed and got my own savings.

Well thats super for you, but unfortunately not all the unemployed have a cushy bank account to fall back on and since there are no jobs at the moment, the Dole is the only option for alot of people.

Clown Shoes

AARRRGH wrote: »

I know a lot of "artists" and "musicians". I'm using quotes because they are in fact untalented tossers.

They all work part-time (some of them full-time) yet are long term dole scammers.

They are all doing very well financially.

What bothers me the most about them is that it is so obvious they are scamming the dole (many of them recently bought houses) yet somehow they get away with it.

Makes me sick really.

One of the few industries doing well out of the recession is the black economy. No point in working in the PAYE system for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, as a public servant, I have to hand it over. Musicians might claim the dole and do a gig in the back room of a pub every week. I can´t say I blame them, no real incentive to work as an employee in Ireland.

FlutterinBantam

Joey the lips wrote: »

How do you distinguish without discriminating????? I am on the dole a year and half I want to work but can only get min wage and bad hours.

What are bad hours??

Hours that don't suit your particular lifestyle?

Seriously you should be obliged to take a job on offer unless there is a very good reason for not, otherwise the dole should be cut off.

Joey the lips

Joey the lips wrote: »

No i am not... I actually agree with you and understand you perfectly. My point is its a loop hole thats hard to close.... Another thing I am actually a carer so stricty speaking I cannot work full time but the dole conditions still apply... ie I cannot volenteer but I cannot get work. Its sh1te....

I am going insane.

But how do you apply the check. How do you determine a waster from a genuine fcuk up in life or an unlucky swine from a total white collar ****e.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What are bad hours??

Hours that don't suit your particular lifestyle?

Seriously you should be obliged to take a job on offer unless there is a very good reason for not, otherwise the dole should be cut off.

If you read the whole 2 pages of the thread you would be a bit more enlightened.... I have highlighted and underlined the bit you missed...

Again if you follow my discussion with the op. You would see I agree with the principle but am equally showing that there will be always an element of people unemployed. This is and always will be the nature of the market.

Now have you a specific question to ask me or are you just on the attack???

Terrontress

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you read the whole 2 pages of the thread you would be a bit more enlightened.... I have highlighted and underlined the bit you missed...

Again if you follow my discussion with the op. You would see I agree with the principle but am equally showing that there will be always an element of people unemployed. This is and always will be the nature of the market.

Now have you a specific question to ask me or are you just on the attack???

If I were you, I'd take the minimum wage job rather than exist on handouts. As someone who has worked his entire adult life and who did a series of part time jobs throughout school and college, I can assure you that there is a great dignity and joy in a job that money can't buy.

You name it - petrol station, cafe, McDonalds, pub. I've done the lot and for very little money but with the satisfaction of a job well done!

nice_guy80

they have those back-to-work programs in the USA. (or the 'accept this job or else we're slashing your benefits')

usually it means doing a job you hate, for very little money just to keep the child support or housing that you have.

it also means cheap labour for the business that hires (gets) the new employee

************
and i've done the lot too in secondary school and college. petrol station, garden centre, meat slaughterhouse, supermacs, pubs, washing dishes, supermarkets, retail stores. i didn't mind what it was as long as i was working and earning some money
i was on the dole for 6 months once, but got so fed up i just had to find any job to get me going again. though i was living quite well on the dole and rent allowance etc

Bugnug

mikemac wrote: »

A condition of it is they are jobseeking.
If they are registered to work one Thursday are you going to employ a supervisor to make sure they show up, have the neccesary manual handling and Health & Safety training and if then have to leave for an interview who is to going to do the roster? If someone lives in a rural village and you assign to work in a town are they getting taxi vouchers? As there certainly aren't any buses

Any idea how much this is going to cost to administer in every town in Ireland?

I've heard of this reactive idea for years and it can work but nobody thinks it through bar a few lines in a post

It would cost a hell of a lot less than forking out for people to be "nice and toasty" while the rest of us keep the economy going. I totally agree with legal eagle. I am from a small country town and I know several people who are perfectly capable of going out and getting jobs but its to easy to stay unemployed in Ireland and live off those who work hard and pay taxes so they dony bother.

And the minimum wage argument does not stack up. We have the highest minimun wage in Europe and the cost of living has dropped by 20% in the last two years. Its the same old story people who dont want to work will find every excuse not to.

Terrontress

A large issue is with the social being too easy to exist on. They need to slash benefits to the level where minimum wage is an attractive option to those on them. They would also do well to pay benefits in tokens, redeemable at supermarkets but not on alcohol to prevent the entire benefit cheque going straight down the pub.

An able bodied person being on the dole for a year and a half just shows that the dole is far too comfortable. We all want to earn €100k a year but I'm not going to sit at home until such a job comes along.

Daithinski

Kirby wrote: »

To be frank, nearly everyone who is healthy and unemployed can get work.

You must know something everybody else doesn't. Tell us where these 300,000 jobs are hiding.

Kirby wrote: »

The idea of community service for 2+ years people is a good one. I would welcome it. Doubt it will happen though.

You get community service for committing a crime.

As far as I am aware, being on the dole for 2+ years is not a criminal offense.