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who could fill in at finance for brian lenihan?
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there is only one man for the job imo
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El Stuntman wrote: »there is only one man for the job imo
ah the nearly man, I'd say Lenihan just beat him to it.
He'd be sure to save Pretty Polly.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »Yes, I'm "for real"......unlike the useless tosser who gave our cash to Anglo without even batting an eyelid or investigating whether it was worth saving.
great insight there and such eloquence, if ever there was a case of pot and kettle0 -
Are you for real with a comment like that? Brian Lenihan is far from 'a useless tosser'. He has performed his portfolio admirably in the face of financial meltdown.
Yes he's a useless tosser. As Liam said he gave away billions to the banks without reading critical sections of a report on them. He set up NAMA to bail out FF's developer and banker friends, nevermind that he also gave the bank €7 billion more than the value of the loans was worth....like wtf...the banks were out of options, they had to take whatever deal was given, yet instead of playing hardball and getting the best for the taxpayer he gave them even more cash. Then there is the incident where in the middle of the economic meltdown of the country he went over to David McWilliams house for lessons in 'BASIC' economics. The guy who is tasked with getting the country out of financial ruin doesn't even know the first thing about economics...lol. Only in Ireland.
I sympathize with his condition but it doesn't change my opinion of him in the slightest. I have to hand it to the FF spin doctors that have somehow created a perception of Lenihan in some as the most competent member of FF at the moment when this time last year he was making mistake after mistake after mistake in his handling of the financial crisis. Then out of nowhere he is supposed to be a great man.0 -
Yes he's a useless tosser. As Liam said he gave away billions to the banks without reading critical sections of a report on them. He set up NAMA to bail out FF's developer and banker friends, nevermind that he also gave the bank €7 billion more than the value of the loans was worth....like wtf...the banks were out of options, they had to take whatever deal was given, yet instead of playing hardball and getting the best for the taxpayer he gave them even more cash. Then there is the incident where in the middle of the economic meltdown of the country he went over to David McWilliams house for lessons in 'BASIC' economics. The guy who is tasked with getting the country out of financial ruin doesn't even know the first thing about economics...lol. Only in Ireland.
I sympathize with his condition but it doesn't change my opinion of him in the slightest. I have to hand it to the FF spin doctors that have somehow created a perception of Lenihan in some as the most competent member of FF at the moment when this time last year he was making mistake after mistake after mistake in his handling of the financial crisis. Then out of nowhere he is supposed to be a great man.
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somebody mentioned niall collins, is he in the golden circle, i do not think so, his running mate john cregan is, and he will not like collins appointment, still the collins dynasty are survivors, and in uncle gerry (sorry he became gerald) he would have a built advisor,
as for the minister for fisticuffs, he cannot keep the dandruff brushed from his shoulders, also the rumours unfounded or not, i do not know which, surrounding his helping a well known figure in limerick will not help him.0 -
The only person with any exerience in the role and able to fill in with a minimum of fuss/briefings is Cowen - God help us.
A better option would be to try parachute in someone with some qualifications that go beyond being able to down a pint, sing the Clara Rover and run an economy into the ground. The likes of Alan Ahearne as already mentioned, or indeed any economist - we need a technocrat with no political loyalties to go and get the job done and with the strength to resign if they are not backed.
Theres apparently blocks on that, but I dont see why a bit of imagination cant be applied in the search for a workaround. Theyve exercised a lot of imagination in getting NAMA off the ground with SPVs and so on.
A third alternative is to reach across party lines and look for someone with some ability in the opposition: Bruton for example.
But any other option that Cowen requires a mix of imagination, pragmatism and putting country ahead of party. So its going to be Cowen.
@ ninty9erSeán Ardagh, Frank Fahey and Peter Power have been taking a bit of the burden of the NAMA legislation recently, none in any way particularly professionally qualified, but let's not forget that the purpose of the Dáil is to legislate, and anyone can do that with enough research.
Sorry, what? Frank Fahey? The guy has not a clue. Not a breeze. He seems to think NAMA is going to be funded by the ECB and wont cost the taxpayer a penny. He has not the slightest idea what he is talking about. Plus he holds all of the following beliefs: 1) There is no market for property now so theres no market price to use in NAMA 2) We cant let developer assets be sold on the market because then the market price would be very low 3) NAMA wont prop up property prices at artificially high levels. You can pick any one of those beliefs and hold them, but you cant hold all 3 unless you are Frank Fahey.
The man is laughably incompetent. Let alone he is compromised by his own rather impressive property portfolio, probably backed by an equally impressive series of loans.
Fianna Fail are just completely bereft of talent. Theres very little in the way of intelligent, competent people in the Dail, but whatever there is seems to be in the opposition.0 -
However,should his health condition degrade, who could you see filling in for him in finance?
Considering the amount of outright robbing that is, has been, and will be committed against the Irish people as a direct result of his policies - most particularly NAMA - I propose Oliver Cromwell.
This is the second coming. Make no mistake about it.0 -
great insight there and such eloquence, if ever there was a case of pot and kettle
What's that ridiculous statement meant to mean ? :rolleyes: "Pot and kettle" ???
That might be even remotely relevant if I was being paid €300,000 to actually do a job, but I'm not. Lenihan is.
Mind you, if I was being paid €300,000 I definitely wouldn't give billions to a corrupt bank, so maybe the "job he's paid to do" differs from what most normal people would believe......maybe he's not meant to act in the best interests of the country.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »Yes, I'm "for real"......unlike the useless tosser who gave our cash to Anglo without even batting an eyelid or investigating whether it was worth saving.
i love the way you always repeat the same thing when it comes down to lenihan and that is the anglo nationalization. the fact that he has learned since, has adapted to his position, got the country back on the track to stabilizing its public finances, though we still have a long way to go, and the fact that he was the only politician in 10 years who was willing to stand up and say no to the unions while putting the country's good before the good for his political party or his career0 -
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Anyone in this country getting paid €300,000 plus, knows bloody well why they are getting paid that much. Which side would you like your bread buttered on? Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.0
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As there is a distinct lack of talent in the Dail at present, would it make any sense to have some person appointed to the Senate and then appointed to the cabinet. Precedence shows that Garret Fitzgerald used this method when he appointed James Dooge as Minister for Foreign Affairs back in an earlier Government 1980 or 81. There could be a vacancy in the senate that could be filled by some talented wizard to get the ship of state back on an even keel.0
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i love the way you always repeat the same thing when it comes down to lenihan and that is the anglo nationalization. the fact that he has learned since, has adapted to his position, got the country back on the track to stabilizing its public finances, though we still have a long way to go, and the fact that he was the only politician in 10 years who was willing to stand up and say no to the unions while putting the country's good before the good for his political party or his career
Sorry, was he on "probation" for the first while, or something ?
And you're conveniently leaving aside that he fvked up the first - early - budget so much that he had to bring in a second one a few months later.
All that aside, if I barely stabilised the finances of a company that I had thrown away/wasted a few billion euro, what do you think I'd be remembered for ?
In fact, I'd have been out on my ear the moment it came to light that I'd wasted it, and I wouldn't have been given a chance to become competent at the smaller details.
Plus, the fact that he was the only politician in 10 years to even remotely contemplate what was required to do his job reflects more on the incompetence of his predecessors than on himself.
If I give you that he's barely competent now (despite the fact that he still hasn't tackled the bigger issues, over a year into the job) would you concede that wasting €50-odd BILLION of OUR money is far more serious than any of the items that should be viewed as the minimum requirement for the job ?
I mean, Hitler probably did lots of smaller things (maybe even tackling unions), but he'll be remembered for the holocaust and WWII.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »Sorry, was he on "probation" for the first while, or something ?
And you're conveniently leaving aside that he fvked up the first - early - budget so much that he had to bring in a second one a few months later.
All that aside, if I barely stabilised the finances of a company that I had thrown away/wasted a few billion euro, what do you think I'd be remembered for ?
In fact, I'd have been out on my ear the moment it came to light that I'd wasted it, and I wouldn't have been given a chance to become competent at the smaller details.
Plus, the fact that he was the only politician in 10 years to even remotely contemplate what was required to do his job reflects more on the incompetence of his predecessors than on himself.
If I give you that he's barely competent now (despite the fact that he still hasn't tackled the bigger issues, over a year into the job) would you concede that wasting €50-odd BILLION of OUR money is far more serious than any of the items that should be viewed as the minimum requirement for the job ?
I mean, Hitler probably did lots of smaller things (maybe even tackling unions), but he'll be remembered for the holocaust and WWII.
anglo had to be nationalised though...no matter how you look at it, i'm a right winger and i know it had to be otherwise we'd be totally screwed. the fact that he didnt read the paper is of concern and the fact that he has learned since shows that he is getting better at the job with each day. we must remember he was a barrister that was in senior positions in the cabinet only for about a year and suddenly he got the toughest portfolio in the country. so that is why his behaviour is excusable.
with regards to 50 billion wasted...how do you know that? what if we do make a profit out of it? its a plan backed by ECB...would you say they got it wrong? you simply cannot judge this thing before it even got under way.
with regards to the unions...yes it is quite sad that lenihan is the first to properly stand up against them and do his job properly but he needs to be credited for this.
the analogy with hitler is totally off the point.0 -
he is getting better at the job with each day.
Oh, that's OK, so.....we must remember he was a barrister that was in senior positions in the cabinet only for about a year and suddenly he got the toughest portfolio in the country. so that is why his behaviour is excusable.
Hopefully the actions and impact of the barrister-turned-heart-surgeon that I'm visiting next week will be equally excusable.......
We're paying him a fortune, FFS!!! He's either able to do a job or not. From day one!
And as I said, he took 2 budgets, hammered the public twice, and then fecked off on holidays for the summer (and Christmas) with NAMA not even finalised.
And the said-same NAMA has zero protection for the public.
The banks were dead in the water because of mismanagement. They should have been told "here's what we're doing" and should not have been allowed to dictate anything; even though I disagree with NAMA, at least that would have shown that FF had some level of interest in the effect on the public.with regards to 50 billion wasted...how do you know that? what if we do make a profit out of it? its a plan backed by ECB...would you say they got it wrong?
Another Fianna Fail lie. It's not a plan backed by the ECB; it's accepted as "taking [some] action". There is no "backing" involved in them merely recognising that "something" is being done.the analogy with hitler is totally off the point.
Not "totally", no. You are remembered for your biggest achievements, cock-ups or crimes.
Nationalising the cesspit that was NAMA while giving us almost ZERO chance of getting a return on investments by (a) paying over the odds and (b) bailing out the others, with no return on investment (other than to the shareholders and investors) and (c) no enforced guarantees re lending or benefit-in-kind to borrowers....FF basically had all the cards but "hope" the banks will "do us a favour" and start operating properly again.
If it was going ahead it should have been nationalisation across the board, along with an ENFORCED sweepout of all the previous incompetent senior management; as it is, FF and Lenihan are giving the public all the disadvantages and none of the advantages.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »Oh, that's OK, so.....
Hopefully the actions and impact of the barrister-turned-heart-surgeon that I'm visiting next week will be equally excusable.......
We're paying him a fortune, FFS!!! He's either able to do a job or not. From day one!
And as I said, he took 2 budgets, hammered the public twice, and then fecked off on holidays for the summer (and Christmas) with NAMA not even finalised.
And the said-same NAMA has zero protection for the public.
The banks were dead in the water because of mismanagement. They should have been told "here's what we're doing" and should not have been allowed to dictate anything; even though I disagree with NAMA, at least that would have shown that FF had some level of interest in the effect on the public.
Another Fianna Fail lie. It's not a plan backed by the ECB; it's accepted as "taking [some] action". There is no "backing" involved in them merely recognising that "something" is being done.
Not "totally", no. You are remembered for your biggest achievements, cock-ups or crimes.
Nationalising the cesspit that was NAMA while giving us almost ZERO chance of getting a return on investments by (a) paying over the odds and (b) bailing out the others, with no return on investment (other than to the shareholders and investors) and (c) no enforced guarantees re lending or benefit-in-kind to borrowers....FF basically had all the cards but "hope" the banks will "do us a favour" and start operating properly again.
If it was going ahead it should have been nationalisation across the board, along with an ENFORCED sweepout of all the previous incompetent senior management; as it is, FF and Lenihan are giving the public all the disadvantages and none of the advantages.
2 budgets were neccessary. it was because no one could predict such a drastic downfall in the economy. lenihan is also the first finance minister in ages that got the figures right with regards to the second budget...before that we either got much more or less than expected.
NAMA is backed by the ECB in the way that ECB is willing to give us those 50 billion without counting it as part of the national debt, that's pretty much a strong backing if you ask me.
with regards to the legacy of lenihan...then NAMA would be thing to be remembered for not anglo. maybe even the budgets will be remembered and lenihan the minister which got ireland back on track...it's too soon to call0 -
2 budgets were neccessary. it was because no one could predict such a drastic downfall in the economy.
Well, if they'd listened back when they were first warned, it might not have been as drastic.
And if the so-called "Financial Regulator" had done his job, it wouldn't have been.
As for the drastic downturn itself, it was partially caused by uncertainty because of the Government's actions, and partially caused by stuff like the ridiculous VAT increase.
Not completely, but the first budget definitely made it worse (as did overall FF policy).
And the bull**** about NAMA being "urgent" and "the only show in town" was downright sickening, considering they have hit Joe Public 3 times already, and STILL haven't gotten it up and running.
Other countries are coming out of their recession, Ireland is only starting to bottom out.lenihan is also the first finance minister in ages that got the figures right with regards to the second budget...before that we either got much more or less than expected.
Not a valid comparison. I'd suggest that anyone else who did 2 budgets in the one year (actually, less than one year, because he brought the first one forward too) could manage to get it fairly right the second time. No-one else foisted this on us, though.NAMA is backed by the ECB in the way that ECB is willing to give us those 50 billion without counting it as part of the national debt, that's pretty much a strong backing if you ask me.
We'll agree to differ. They're facilitating the decision made by our Government. That doesn't mean that they don't think there are better options, such as either (a) letting the banks fail, as per true capitalism, or (b) nationalising them from day one so that the public is protected.with regards to the legacy of lenihan...then NAMA would be thing to be remembered for not anglo.
You and he seem to hope so, but Anglo was one almighty cock up, and if NAMA isn't a miraculous roaring success (although how it can be, considering the bull**** over a supposed "discount" that means we're paying extra, is beyond me) then he'll still be remembered for Anglo.
In the same way as Ahern might have finalised the North (and fair play to him for that) but he's still remembered for his ever-changing testimonies and screwing the economy, and writing blank cheques for Haughey.maybe even the budgets will be remembered and lenihan the minister which got ireland back on track...it's too soon to call
Someone had better write it all down, so. Because it won't be in my or my nephews & nieces lifetimes.
Look, I do realise that Lenihan came in to a poisoned chalice of Ahern & Cowen's making, but the fact is that he made some disastrous decisions, and getting a few right won't remove the cloud and uncertainty that is NAMA....and FF don't care, because they'll be out of power next election and they won't have to deal with the fallout.0 -
@Mario007NAMA is backed by the ECB in the way that ECB is willing to give us those 50 billion without counting it as part of the national debt, that's pretty much a strong backing if you ask me.
1- The ECB is not giving us a penny. It is the Irish taxpayer giving the banks the money. The ECB is contributing the grand total of zero. Nada. Nothing.
2 - The Enron style accountancy trick is not a gift. Its simply in line with the accountancy tricks allowed.
Dont worry though - that money *is* still part of the national debt regardless.0 -
You forgot about the fact that Fahey was also caught out for being an unregistered landlord.Sorry, what? Frank Fahey? The guy has not a clue. Not a breeze. He seems to think NAMA is going to be funded by the ECB and wont cost the taxpayer a penny. He has not the slightest idea what he is talking about. Plus he holds all of the following beliefs: 1) There is no market for property now so theres no market price to use in NAMA 2) We cant let developer assets be sold on the market because then the market price would be very low 3) NAMA wont prop up property prices at artificially high levels. You can pick any one of those beliefs and hold them, but you cant hold all 3 unless you are Frank Fahey.
The man is laughably incompetent. Let alone he is compromised by his own rather impressive property portfolio, probably backed by an equally impressive series of loans.0 -
As there is a distinct lack of talent in the Dail at present, would it make any sense to have some person appointed to the Senate and then appointed to the cabinet. Precedence shows that Garret Fitzgerald used this method when he appointed James Dooge as Minister for Foreign Affairs back in an earlier Government 1980 or 81. There could be a vacancy in the senate that could be filled by some talented wizard to get the ship of state back on an even keel.
Unfortunately the constitution (art 28.7.1.) explicitly states that the Taoiseach, Tanaiste, and minister for finance must come from the Dáil. I made the same mistake earlier. Its one of those provisos that prevents significant power from getting into unelected hands, although I would have expected Foreign Affairs to be under the same limitaition as well.0 -
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very true Openheimer, but there's nothing to stop someone effective being put into Enterprise Trade & Employment.oppenheimer1 wrote: »Unfortunately the constitution (art 28.7.1.) explicitly states that the Taoiseach, Tanaiste, and minister for finance must come from the Dáil. I made the same mistake earlier. Its one of those provisos that prevents significant power from getting into unelected hands, although I would have expected Foreign Affairs to be under the same limitaition as well.0
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