Villa V 'pool, a veritable six pointer.

Paulegend

Voltwad wrote: »

Said Reina and Torres already Gerrard on form would walk into any team but not so far this season.

Milner's been outstanding and while Benayoun has done well too, he'd have a chance of getting in ahead of Downing but not Milner. Villa have a right back who can defend a lot better than yours can so I don't think Johnson is O'Neill's kind of player. Given that he lets his wingers almost act as second strikers, Johnson would not get into the Villa team IMO.

Mascherano is a war-horse but I have doubts about his ability to pass the ball. Again, over-rated.

good arguement.

but gerrard has been playing through an injury all season so thats my explanation for his poor(and its been very very poor) form.

johnson yes you are correct isnt as good defensivly as i would like. but he is even first choice for the national side. the guy makes up for his defensive short comings. but he is also improving defensivly.

masherano is in no way "over-rated" he is the argentinian captain......... his long passes are not great but his ability to break down the oppositions play is benificial to any top side. as stated in another post name one villa midfielder who is better?

as for villa "deserving" and "underachieving"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no im afraid i have been watching villa and yes they are great defensivly. they remind me of the liverpool side who did the 5 trophies in 6 months back in 2001. they sit back defend with 11 men and break away on counter attacks. villa are in the position they are because other teams are having a bad season. do you honestly believe that the villa players are top 4 standard? alot of liverpool players arent top 4 standard but i assure you that if barcelona, madrid, chelsea, man city or any other mega rich club came calling they would be shopping for alot more in liverpool than villa

Tomthepost

6-5 to villa or pool for me
Hang on a minute! Did I only name 10?:D

Reina
Johnson
Dunne
Agger
Warnock
Milner
Gerrard
Barry
Young
Gabby
Torres

invincibleirish

T'will be interesting to see how Monny deals with Young's suspension. I assume he'll push Milner out wide and bring in NRC/Sidwell to the middle. despite his so-so form during 2009 Ash will still be missed big time, hard to see Albrighton getting a start.

On that i be happy for Villa to get a score draw. The 48 hours between games and MON sticking to an identical line up all bodes ominously.

Paulegend

Voltwad wrote: »

For some games yes. I would have him in away from home mostly, most home games he wouldn't be of as much given his lack of technical and passing ability. Petrov is important to the way Villa play.

Anyway my main point is that this bloke is not showing Villa the respect they deserve

who me?? dude i like villa. always wanted them to do well but im just saying alot of villa fans are coming out of the woodwork and talking up the team a bit too much.

invincibleirish

Paulegend wrote: »

...i have been watching villa and yes they are great defensivly...

What Villa games have you watched?

Paulegend

invincibleirish wrote: »

What Villa games have you watched?

one of my mates is a villa supporter so been dragged out for all of the games. whats your point?

Headshot

villa were class defensively against utd

Dunne has been a class apart back there

Paulegend

Headshot wrote: »

villa were class defensively against utd

Dunne has been a class apart back there

i think friedel prob deserves legend status at this stage. another player id love back at pool but as cover obviosly:D

Krusader

Paulegend wrote: »

who me?? dude i like villa. always wanted them to do well but im just saying alot of villa fans are coming out of the woodwork and talking up the team a bit too much.

Villa have steadily improve under MON and the loss of Laursen last season was a big blow to our end of season push. (lack of a leader at the back)
Now with Dunney we have that leader back and the back 5 are communicating again
Villa's position is no fluke

Tomthepost

Paulegend wrote: »

who me?? dude i like villa. always wanted them to do well but im just saying alot of villa fans are coming out of the woodwork and talking up the team a bit too much.

I think you will find that there is plenty of us about and has been for quite a while. Just check out how active the Villa thread is here. Better still wear your Liverpool jersey into Murrays on Dublin's O'Connell St around 7.45pm this evening.;)

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

I think you will find that there is plenty of us about and has been for quite a while. Just check out how active the Villa thread is here. Better still wear your Liverpool jersey into Murrays on Dublin's O'Connell St around 7.45pm this evening.;)

didnt know there where any villa pubs in the country:D well except for that 1 ive seen in cavan but that was years ago. from limerick myself. we have nancy blakes, the still house, maicky martins which are all staunch liverpool fc city center pubs. there are a few outside the city center aswell but dont know how liverpool they are. ill be wearing my jersey as i have for the last 12 years on match day;)

invincibleirish

Paulegend wrote: »

one of my mates is a villa supporter so been dragged out for all of the games. whats your point?

Then you'll have seen Villa go unbeaten against the PLs top 10 (bar the Arse unfortunately) during the first half of the season, often not playing well but still getting decent results. Villa might not be Real Madrid but **** it its still a decent team. Going by your previous assumptions it sounded like all you know about the Villa is wot you read in the paper or read on the internet.

Paulegend wrote: »

who me?? dude i like villa. always wanted them to do well but im just saying alot of villa fans are coming out of the woodwork and talking up the team a bit too much.

Don't sound like any Villa fans i know:cool:. Anyway whats wrong with people talking up the team they support?

The Volt

Paulegend wrote: »

i think friedel prob deserves legend status at this stage. another player id love back at pool but as cover obviosly:D

Didn't Villa win at Anfield earlier this season?

I'm not saying Villa are world beaters by any stretch of the imagination but Liverpool are far (perhaps farther) from it. The way I see it, there needs to be a mass exodus at Anfield. Players in most positions need to be purchased in order for them to even consider a title challenge again.

I pal around with quite a few Liverpool fans, all of whom are so disappointed at how things are currently, they know that they face an uphill struggle to even finish top 6 at this stage.

Just so you know, I'm not a Villa fan either but don't be criticizing their fans for 'talking up' their team. You stated they are in a position they shouldn't be in. It is not Liverpool's god given right to finish in the top four. Villa have beaten 3 of the top 4 already and in this instance, the table doesn't lie. Liverpool were lucky to draw with Birmingham, luckier to get anything out of the derby. If anything, you's could be closer to 14th than 4th.

Tomthepost

Paulegend wrote: »

didnt know there where any villa pubs in the country:D well except for that 1 ive seen in cavan but that was years ago. from limerick myself. we have nancy blakes, the still house, maicky martins which are all staunch liverpool fc city center pubs. there are a few outside the city center aswell but dont know how liverpool they are. ill be wearing my jersey as i have for the last 12 years on match day;)

Fcuk he is from Limerick:eek:

Mr Alan

Voltwad wrote: »

Didn't Villa win at Anfield earlier this season?

I'm not saying Villa are world beaters by any stretch of the imagination but Liverpool are far (perhaps farther) from it. The way I see it, there needs to be a mass exodus at Anfield. Players in most positions need to be purchased in order for them to even consider a title challenge again.

so far this season Liverpool are going poorly. really poorly.

in fact, its been a nightmare-****e form,beach balls,injuries have all played their part.

if we win tomorrow, we are two points behind a high flying Villa. despite our worst run of form & injuries in recent memory.

Liverpool are better than Villa. Our squad is close to a title challenging one, this was proven beyong any doubt last season.

You're an Everton fan right? you're in a relegation battle at the moment, does your whole team need to be flogged? or are you just having a poor time of it this season?

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

Fcuk he is from Limerick:eek:

haha:D

invincibleirish wrote: »

Then you'll have seen Villa go unbeaten against the PLs top 10 (bar the Arse unfortunately) during the first half of the season, often not playing well but still getting decent results. Villa might not be Real Madrid but **** it its still a decent team. Going by your previous assumptions it sounded like all you know about the Villa is wot you read in the paper or read on the internet.

yes i have. and youll realise that they beat the pool who are having the worst season ever in over 30 odd years. ye beat united who are weaker this season than they where last season. who are struggling to find a defender to play. chelsea who are very inconsistant. the truth is villa are one of the few teams that havent had a bad season or a bad patch to their season

invincibleirish wrote: »

Don't sound like any Villa fans i know:cool:. Anyway whats wrong with people talking up the team they support?

your right there. but i think alot of the talk is pre mature right now. i know this one villa fan(a mate of mine) who i wont name.............. who actually says villa can win the league.......................

The Volt

Mr Alan wrote: »

so far this season Liverpool are going poorly. really poorly.

in fact, its been a nightmare-****e form,beach balls,injuries have all played their part.

if we win tomorrow, we are two points behind a high flying Villa. despite our worst run of form & injuries in recent memory.

Liverpool are better than Villa. Our squad is close to a title challenging one, this was proven beyong any doubt last season.

You're an Everton fan right? you're in a relegation battle at the moment, does your whole team need to be flogged? or are you just having a poor time of it this season?

Yes I'm a blue, I don't expect anything higher than 8th maybe with a decent cup run. If we flog any of our players we'll end up playing ball boys our squad is so bare. Arteta, Jagielka out the entire season so far. Neville only back, Yakubu not the same player since his injury. We also lost Lescott and Pienaar missed quite a few games. Can't really expect much can I?

I still feel entitled to my Liverpool opinion though

Mr Alan

8th is 8 points ahead of you currently.

8 points ahead of Liverpool currently is 3rd place.

of course Everton have reasons they are struggling, so do Liverpool.

I have no doubt if a Liverpool fan was hear saying they didn't expect anything higher than 3rd, i'd imagine you'd be pissing yourself laughing.

My point is simply, looking at league positions now & claiming they prove anything is a tad silly.

5starpool

I'm both looking forward to, and dreading this game.

Liverpool have not played well for a long time, 45 mins vs Arsenal excepted. There is no real reason to think it will change for the Villa game, but who knows. If things click and the pool play well they can definitely come away with the 3 points, but the way the teams have been playing the last while, Villa have to be favourites for this.

Tomthepost

Mr Alan wrote: »

so far this season Liverpool are going poorly. really poorly.

in fact, its been a nightmare-****e form,beach balls,injuries have all played their part.

if we win tomorrow, we are two points behind a high flying Villa. despite our worst run of form & injuries in recent memory.

Liverpool are better than Villa. Our squad is close to a title challenging one, this was proven beyong any doubt last season.

You're an Everton fan right? you're in a relegation battle at the moment, does your whole team need to be flogged? or are you just having a poor time of it this season?

If you don't win tomorrow would you not think that such a statement would be in serious doubt?
You got 2 players arguably good enough for a world first XI. Other then that what you got is very ordinary as is proved every single time these guys are out injured, off form or simply left out of the team for only reasons the great Rafa can explain.

Mr Alan

Reina is very ordinary? Benayoun is very ordinary? Mascherano is very ordinary? Glen Johnson is ordinary?

actually, Torres & Gerrard only played 14 games together last season, yet we came away with a club record for points achieved in a season.

and no i don't think it would be in doubt if Villa won tomorrow, only way it'll be in any doubt is if Villa were to finish ahead of us this year.

Panthro

Mr Alan wrote: »

Reina is very ordinary? Benayoun is very ordinary? Mascherano is very ordinary? Glen Johnson is ordinary?

AND

Dossena, Insua, Veronin, EI Zhar, N'Gog...

:P

(smirks wildly at my own sarcasm and gets ready to run away from a verbal bashing from Mr Alan!!):D:D

Tomthepost

Mr Alan wrote: »

Reina is very ordinary? Benayoun is very ordinary? Mascherano is very ordinary? Glen Johnson is ordinary?

actually, Torres & Gerrard only played 14 games together last season, yet we came away with a club record for points achieved in a season.

and no i don't think it would be in doubt if Villa won tomorrow, only way it'll be in any doubt is if Villa were to finish ahead of us this year.

I find it very hard to believe that they only played 14 games together to be honest but as a pool fan Im sure you know better. Im sure one or the other played in almost all your league games anyway. As did Alonso who you no longer have and was in my opinion your player of the season last season. Add in a Kuyt who played away above his normal standard last season and a Carragher that is getting more and more suspect at the back and I think any Liverpool fan that is being honest with themselves will see finishing above Villa this season as a great achievement and that the current squad is miles behind a title contending unit.
If you look back a little I picked what I feel is a very diplomatic combined best of pool / villa. Take out Barry and put in Maccareno and its 6-5 pool. At that I think Cuellar is not far behind Agger.
The only great difference between Pool and Villa is that you guys have two players that can turn a game in a second as Fabergas did to Villa on Sunday.

rossie1977

papagormo wrote: »

AND

Dossena, Insua, Veronin, EI Zhar, N'Gog...

:P

(smirks wildly at my own sarcasm and gets ready to run away from a verbal bashing from Mr Alan!!):D:D

n'gog got the best goals per minutes record in the league, has he not??

insua is 20, he should be compared to Rafael or gibbs at arsenal

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

If you don't win tomorrow would you not think that such a statement would be in serious doubt?
You got 2 players arguably good enough for a world first XI. Other then that what you got is very ordinary as is proved every single time these guys are out injured, off form or simply left out of the team for only reasons the great Rafa can explain.

yes and 2 from 11 leaves 9. having 2 of the best players in the world is having a bad team? how many players from villa or everton would make the world XI. how about Europe XI? im not saying villa are bad im saying they are not yet top 4

Paulegend

rossie1977 wrote: »

n'gog got the best goals per minutes record in the league, has he not??

insua is 20, he should be compared to Rafael or gibbs at arsenal

also plays for the argentinian national side regulaly(as of late)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! does warnock?

nkay1985

The reality is that anyone picking a team from Villa and Liverpool combined on papaer will have more Liverpool players in there. But, based on form and how they're playing with each other, the opposite might well be true right now. If both teams played to a level that is an average of how they've done this season, Villa would win.

I personally feel that, even if Liverpool do pull out a better performance than they're managing at the moment, they'll find it very hard to beat Villa. They're well-organised and work hard for each other; they'll be hard to score against. Throw in the way Milner has been playing, a Stuart Downing who appears to be right back on form, Agbonlahor's pace and Carew's physicality (if he plays) and there's goals in the team too.

Should be a good game.

ilovelamp2000

I don't really see the value in comparing squads right now. It leads to a skewed view of things since we're at a very low ebb and Villa are having a great run of form this season.

If people want to convince themselves that Nigel Reo-Coker is better than Javier Mascherano then fire away.

Tomthepost

Paulegend wrote: »

yes and 2 from 11 leaves 9. having 2 of the best players in the world is having a bad team? how many players from villa or everton would make the world XI. how about Europe XI? im not saying villa are bad im saying they are not yet top 4

11 players = team not 2 players.
A good manager helps create a good teams that might add up to more then the sum of its parts.
One can count MON's bad signings on one hand.
One can count Rafa's good signings on one hand.
A pool fan that claims they would have Insua at this stage of his career at least on their first 11 ahead of Warnock is not being honest with themselves.
Dont let the anti-past player syndrome colour your thinking.

Helix

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I don't really see the value in comparing squads right now. It leads to a skewed view of things since we're at a very low ebb and Villa are having a great run of form this season.

If people want to convince themselves that Nigel Reo-Coker is better than Javier Mascherano then fire away.

why do people think we're having a great run of form tho? thats what gets me tbh

we're doing ok

and who mentioned nrc in comparison with mascherano?

Tomthepost

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I don't really see the value in comparing squads right now. It leads to a skewed view of things since we're at a very low ebb and Villa are having a great run of form this season.

If people want to convince themselves that Nigel Reo-Coker is better than Javier Mascherano then fire away.

Well Reo-Coker would probably have got more games at Liverpool I suppose.
But we can always compare Voronin with Gabby if you so wish;)
Villa aint having a great season by the way. They have lost to West ham, Wigan and Blackburn and got knocked out of the Europa Cup in the first round.

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

Well Reo-Coker would probably have got more games at Liverpool I suppose.
But we can always compare Voronin with Gabby if you so wish;)
Villa aint having a great season by the way. They have lost to West ham, Wigan and Blackburn and got knocked out of the Europa Cup in the first round.

so if villa finished 4th in the league it wouldnt be the greatest seaon in recent history for them???????????????????????????????:eek:

and gabby compared with voronin?????????????????????????????????? the later who played less than a third of the games gabby has played

Mr.Nice Guy

Hate to say it but I see Liverpool winning this one. They're bound to get their arses in gear at some stage. 2-1 victory.

Hopefully Milner does something in the game.

everdead.ie

rossie1977 wrote: »

n'gog got the best goals per minutes record in the league, has he not??

insua is 20, he should be compared to Rafael or gibbs at arsenal

He doesn't make the top 5 actually
PlayerClubGoalsTime played (mins)Mins per Goal

---

g-min played-minutes per goal
Ferando Torres pool 11 1,028 93.5
Jermain Defoe spurs 13 1,250 96.2
Ivan KlasnicBolton 5 514 102.8
Didier DrogbaChelsea 13 1,405 108.1
Louis SahaEverton 10 1,091 109.1
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,12038_5794735,00.html
its under the caption two wise men

invincibleirish

Helix wrote: »

why do people think we're having a great run of form tho? thats what gets me tbh

we're doing ok

Yup, the defence has been improved no doubt but still plenty of off days. He is still on the comeback but perhaps Downing can shine in Ash's absence.

ilovelamp2000

Tomthepost wrote: »

11 players = team not 2 players.

One can count MON's bad signings on one hand.
One can count Rafa's good signings on one hand.

You must have trouble finding gloves to fit those hands of yours.

Reina, Alonso, Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio, Garcia, Benayoun, Arbeloa. You could also make cases for the likes of Crouch , Kuyt, Bellamy and N'Gog.

Johnson and Aquilani have a bit to prove for me.

O'Neill - Harewood, Knight, Salifou, Routledge, Chris Sutton, Shaun Moloney, Reo-Coker, Agathe, Curtis Davies, Nickey Shorey.

It's worth remembering that despite all the funds O'Neill has had to spend, he hasn't had the team finish any higher than David O' Leary did.

Tomthepost

Paulegend wrote: »

so if villa finished 4th in the league it wouldnt be the greatest seaon in recent history for them???????????????????????????????:eek:

Ifs and buts. The season so far is what I am on about. Liverpool would be completely out of site if we were having a great season so far.

and gabby compared with voronin?????????????????????????????????? the later who played less than a third of the games gabby has played

Please read what I was replying to. If it does needs to be pointed out well then Reo-Coker is not a regular in the Villa team.

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

Please read what I was replying to. If it does needs to be pointed out well then Reo-Coker is not a regular in the Villa team.

i never mentioned reo someone else did. but mash would walk straight into villas first team no doubt about it. i realise what you where replying to. my point is that ye finishing 4th is the most ye can dream of achieving as it stands. surely winning the league isnt something you think villa could attain?

differnce is villa are a mid level team fighting above their weight and liverpool are a heavyweight fighting below their level

ilovelamp2000

I suppose if I'm honest I'm worried about this game. I wonder if Rafa will start Aquilani, Torres and Gerrard tomorrow.

We know Lucas is going to play, and I'm dreading the thoughts of seeing Aurelio paired with him again tomorrow. One slow, weak Brazilian in midfield is one too many but having two will be a disaster.

rossie1977

everdead.ie wrote: »

He doesn't make the top 5 actually

didn't read your own article in full i see, only includes players that have scored 5 or more league goals

anyway N'Gog has played 432 mins in the premier league and scored 4 goals, so a goal every 108 mins

6 goals in 8 starts in all competitions this season ain't bad

Tomthepost

Rosco1982 wrote: »

You must have trouble finding gloves to fit those hands of yours.

Reina, Alonso, Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio, Garcia, Benayoun, Arbeloa. You could also make cases for the likes of Crouch , Kuyt, Bellamy and N'Gog.

Johnson and Aquilani have a bit to prove for me.

O'Neill - Harewood, Knight, Salifou, Routledge, Chris Sutton, Shaun Moloney, Reo-Coker, Agathe, Curtis Davies, Nickey Shorey.

It's worth remembering that despite all the funds O'Neill has had to spend, he hasn't had the team finish any higher than David O' Leary did.

Im falling over laughing:D:D:D. Most of the Villa players you mentioned cost no money whatsoever. One (Knight) was sold for a profit and done an ok job as a 4th choice centre half. One (Davies) is injured and was called up to the England panel last season. I wouldn't class Reo-Coker as a bad signing. Was man of the match when we beat you 3-1 this season. Shorey hasn't worked out but at the time he seemed like a good signing. Moloney missed his Mammy but done very well during his time at Villa. Harewood was a stop-gap and always had a good attitude when he was given game time.
O'Neill has spent FCUK all compared to Rafa and half the good signings you claim Rafa made have now moved or been moved on.

Paulegend

rossie1977 wrote: »

didn't read your own article in full i see, only includes players that have scored 5 or more league goals

anyway N'Gog has played 432 mins in the premier league and scored 4 goals, so a goal every 108 mins

6 goals in 8 starts in all competitions this season ain't bad

dude thats just this season but he played in 10 games this season in the league and 14 last season. his ststs are 24 legue games and 6 league goals. sorry. i like ngog i think he will be huge for us in the future

Tomthepost

Paulegend wrote: »

i never mentioned reo someone else did. but mash would walk straight into villas first team no doubt about it. i realise what you where replying to. my point is that ye finishing 4th is the most ye can dream of achieving as it stands. surely winning the league isnt something you think villa could attain?

differnce is villa are a mid level team fighting above their weight and liverpool are a heavyweight fighting below their level

No what would probably be more accurate at this stage is that Villa are a heavyweight with a middleweight outlook and Liverpool are a middleweight that thinks they should be heavyweights.

rossie1977

Tomthepost wrote: »

O'Neill has spent FCUK all compared to Rafa and half the good signings you claim Rafa made have now moved or been moved on.

he has spent about half but he has also brought in only a fraction in transfer fees compared to rafa, in his 5 years or so at liverpool sales have brought in nearly £140m

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

No what would probably be more accurate at this stage is that Villa are a heavyweight with a middleweight outlook and Liverpool are a middleweight that thinks they should be heavyweights.

now thats just silly talk

Tomthepost

rossie1977 wrote: »

he has spent about half but he has also brought in only a fraction in transfer fees compared to rafa, in his 5 years or so at liverpool sales have brought in nearly £140m

Interesting.
So the once great Liverpool are now a selling club:D
Don't forget MON also got rid of your deadwood Baros in a free exchange for Carew.
Ask yourselves an honest question here.
If there was two Gerrards and two Torres one pair at Liverpool and one at Villa who would have a better chance of contending for the title?

Paulegend

Tomthepost wrote: »

Interesting.
So the once great Liverpool are now a selling club:D
Don't forget MON also got rid of your deadwood Baros in a free exchange for Carew.
Ask yourselves an honest question here.
If there was two Gerrards and two Torres one pair at Liverpool and one at Villa who would have a better chance of contending for the title?

the same Baros we made about 5 million profit from selling him to ye when he was worth nothing. we where giving him away.

as stated we have alot better a squad than villa.

and yes we are the once great liverpool. the same once great pool that last season gave united a run for their money. the same great liverpool that have been in 2 champions league finals winning one and winning an fa cup and eing in the league cup final in the last 5 years.

what has the one great villa done????

monkey9

This is such a tough game for Liverpool. It's a game we need to win to start making realistic advances towards the fourth spot as Villa, Man City and Spurs are looking strong!

I think this is going to be two all though!!

K-9

Crosáidí wrote: »

Villa have steadily improve under MON and the loss of Laursen last season was a big blow to our end of season push. (lack of a leader at the back)
Now with Dunney we have that leader back and the back 5 are communicating again
Villa's position is no fluke

There is question marks if Dunne is top 4 quality, same with Agger and Skyrtel.

Villa are going for the tried and tested in Dunne, WYSIWYG.

In many ways similar to Carragher.

K-9

Tomthepost wrote: »

No what would probably be more accurate at this stage is that Villa are a heavyweight with a middleweight outlook and Liverpool are a middleweight that thinks they should be heavyweights.

You are a Kerry man aren't you? Just trying to place you!