Villa V 'pool, a veritable six pointer.

mormank

DSB wrote: »

Stephen Warnock, Richard Dunne, James Milner, Ashley Young would all be first choice players at Liverpool, without doubt. Glen Johnson, Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres would all be first choices at Villa, no doubt. Think its hard to say between Agger and Cuellar, and Benayoun and Downing, and in other positions there aren't like for like due to different ways of playing football.

You can harp on all you want about these Liverpool players being better because they're bigger names, but Villa's excellent form over the last 3 years is no coincidence.

i love it when people give theor opinions on things and then declare it as fact like you have done here. it is subjective im afraid and depends on fitness and form and other things like that. so you cant really say who would be first choice anywhere like you have. for example i would disagree that milner would be first choice at liverpool as he hasnt shown that he can handle the pressure of playing for a top 4 side yet. (before some smart ass says he is, you all know what i mean!)

mormank

Helix wrote: »

why do people think we're having a great run of form tho? thats what gets me tbh

we're doing ok

and who mentioned nrc in comparison with mascherano?

are you for real? honeslty, were you expecting a title challenge or something at the start of the season then?

5starpool

Tomthepost wrote: »

One can count Rafa's good signings on one hand.

You really should get that looked at. I believe they can remove extra digits in operations these days.

Torres
Mascherano
Alonso
Benayoun
Agger
Reina
Johnson

Those are indisputible as far as I'm concerned, and there are several others as well such as:

Kuyt
Insua
Arbeloa
Skrtel (this season has not been so good admittedly)
Ngog
Loads of promising youngsters that will hopefully make a breakthrough in the next couple of seasons. I'd have Aurelio in there if he wasn't so injury prone as well.

K-9

5starpool wrote: »

You really should get that looked at. I believe they can remove extra digits in operations these days.

Torres
Mascherano
Alonso

Those 3 alone where in manys a choice for the United and Liverpool team at yhe end of last season. Gerrard obviously too. Kuyt was popular too, even among a few United supporters, I kid you not!

5starpool wrote:

Benayoun
Agger
Reina

Reina was manys first choice last year.

I'd put Benny ahead of Agger, plenty won a few € on Benny last season.

5starpool wrote:

Those are indisputible as far as I'm concerned, and there are several others as well such as:

Kuyt
Insua
Arbeloa
Skrtel (this season has not been so good admittedly)
Ngog
Loads of promising youngsters that will hopefully make a breakthrough in the next couple of seasons. I'd have Aurelio in there if he wasn't so injury prone as well.

Agreed, Riera too, just injury prone.

This has to be a piss take,the Liverpool team is so far superior to the Villa team its laughable.

Liverpool are playing terribly,the worst they have for years.
Villa are playing out of their skins and are 2 points in front.
No matter who wins (I think draw),Liverpool will finish in the top 4 comfortably and the Vila fans will be cheering their best ever season.

magma69

Joe Freezing Palate wrote: »

This has to be a piss take,the Liverpool team is so far superior to the Villa team its laughable.

Liverpool are playing terribly,the worst they have for years.
Villa are playing out of their skins and are 2 points in front.
No matter who wins (I think draw),Liverpool will finish in the top 4 comfortably and the Vila fans will be cheering their best ever season.

I wouldn't say they are all that superior. It is the top notch players in Torres and Gerrard that sets them apart. Without those two I think Villa would almost be on par with Liverpool. I agree that we will get 4th place fairly comfortably though.

eagle eye

Reina
Torres
Mascherano
Kuyt

The above four have been outstanding for Liverpool over their time there.
Alonso was a fantastic signing for Liverpool.
Others top signings that are no longer there include Sissoko, Luis Garcia, Crouch and Bellamy.
Of the younger players I really rate Lucas, N'Gog and Insua who will all have big careers in football imo.
After that Benayoun for me lacks consistency but is still a good signing, Skrtel and Agger have also been good signings.
Its too early to make a call on Johnson and Aquilani to be fair.
Benitez has made plenty of good signings in fairness.

As far as the game is concerned, this game suits Villa imo. They suffer against pacier sides but Liverpool don't really have that when playing two deep midfielders. It will be a tight game, I would not be surprised to see a low scoring draw.

ilovelamp2000

Tomthepost wrote: »

Im falling over laughing:D:D:D. Most of the Villa players you mentioned cost no money whatsoever. One (Knight) was sold for a profit and done an ok job as a 4th choice centre half. One (Davies) is injured and was called up to the England panel last season. I wouldn't class Reo-Coker as a bad signing. Was man of the match when we beat you 3-1 this season. Shorey hasn't worked out but at the time he seemed like a good signing. Moloney missed his Mammy but done very well during his time at Villa. Harewood was a stop-gap and always had a good attitude when he was given game time.
O'Neill has spent FCUK all compared to Rafa and half the good signings you claim Rafa made have now moved or been moved on.

All of those signings are rubbish players though, that's the point. None of them have made any real impact on the Villa first team regardless of what was spent. You could make the same excuses for about 25 of Rafa's signings (stopgap, missed their Mammy, didn't settle etc.) but I don't think that excuses the mistakes. If a player doesn't make the grade it doesn't matter what the reason is, there's too much information available about players these days to be tolerating **** ups in the market. A failure is a failure.


I'm aware Rafa has made much bigger errors in the transfer market, I'd be one of the more critical LFC fans in that regard. In fact I'd go so far to say that Benitez is worse than Houllier in the transfer market. It's the main reason we won't win the league title. For me the killer was when we signed Robbie Keane, that 20m could have bought us a player who would have helped us win the title (Arshavin was available at the time) but instead we spent on a player who was clearly never right for the team and was coming towards the decline stage of his career.

I'd take a draw right now but I'd love to see us go all out to win.

Prediction is 1-1

Spiritoftheseventies

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I suppose if I'm honest I'm worried about this game. I wonder if Rafa will start Aquilani, Torres and Gerrard tomorrow.

We know Lucas is going to play, and I'm dreading the thoughts of seeing Aurelio paired with him again tomorrow. One slow, weak Brazilian in midfield is one too many but having two will be a disaster.

No reason not to start those three. We win the gap is down to two points. Rafa has to chase this game.

One Cold Hand

Joe Freezing Palate wrote: »

the Vila fans will be cheering their best ever season.

Cool. The only way we can have our best ever season is if we win!

One Cold Hand

Paulegend wrote: »

also plays for the argentinian national side regulaly(as of late)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! does warnock?

Warnock's not Argentinian.

ilovelamp2000

bayviewclose wrote: »

No reason not to start those three. We win the gap is down to two points. Rafa has to chase this game.

All three are not fully fit and playing another game so soon would increase the risk of injury.

ilovelamp2000

From the Press Association:

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez admits he must assess the risk of using Italian midfielder Alberto Aquilani in Tuesday's critical Barclays Premier League clash at Aston Villa.

The £20million summer signing from Roma finally made his first Barclays Premier League start in Liverpool's 2-0 victory over Wolves. He has struggled with fitness and injury all season and had to be substituted with six minutes to go on Boxing Day complaining of a hamstring problem.

Benitez said: "Aquilani did well against Wolves, but he needs match fitness. He was trying to be involved, passing and creating chances, but the Premier League is difficult and he will settle down little by little."

He added: "It is a difficult decision with the Villa game coming so quickly. Some of our players were very tired after the Wolves match, while some had little injuries. We will need to assess them all.

"We will have to manage them carefully but clearly if Javier Mascherano is not available for the next three games through suspension, then Aquilani will obviously have more chance of time on the pitch.

"But against Wolves he was worried about his hamstring, he was concerned and I wanted to protect him. That is why we took him off."

Benitez would prefer to utilise two holding midfield men in what promises to be a tough match against Villa.

Lucas was troubled by a stomach upset ahead of the Wolves match and Liverpool looked weak in midfield at times.

Benitez could solve that problem by playing Steven Gerrard in a deeper role.

The Spaniard said: "Maybe we would normally have two holding players for such a game, but we have options. Gerrard can play in that role, we will see. Lucas was tiring against Wolves, he was not well, but now we must see how he recovers and whether he can have more energy now. It all depends on how the players feel and react after the Wolves game.

Bandit12

Joe Freezing Palate wrote: »

This has to be a piss take,the Liverpool team is so far superior to the Villa team its laughable.

Liverpool are playing terribly,the worst they have for years.
Villa are playing out of their skins and are 2 points in front.
No matter who wins (I think draw),Liverpool will finish in the top 4 comfortably and the Vila fans will be cheering their best ever season.

Common sense has no place in here. Be gone.
Nah seriously i'd have to agree. The media and most independent football fans have been fapping themselves silly over the season Villa are having whilst calling for Rafa's head at the same time. There is a gulf in class between the two clubs in terms of player quality and that will hopefully see Liverpool finishing top four at the very least.

Bandit12

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd take a draw right now but I'd love to see us go all out to win.

Prediction is 1-1

The match either way is'nt make or break for either side. If anything the pressure is on Villa to build up a gap over Liverpool and pray they can hold on for dear life until mid May. I'm gonna go for the 2-2 draw as Villa where horribly exposed againest the gunners the other day and this will dent their confidence no end. TBH it's City more than Villa i'd be worried about now they have acquired a decent manager.:(

Boggles

Fernando Torres has scored 49 goals in 71 Premier League games and will become the fastest player ever to reach 50 league goals for Liverpool if he scores.

Young missing is a big loss.

2-2

Spiritoftheseventies

Rosco1982 wrote: »

All three are not fully fit and playing another game so soon would increase the risk of injury.

Thats a risk we have to risk IMO

wynters

1-1 aswell I think. 9/2 in Páidi Laidirs.

'Just reading down through this thread and the arrogance of some Liverpool fans really is astounding for a club in their current position... an even bigger chip on their shoulder than United fans EVER had during their barren spell... all those years ago...

There is no question that a club with Liverpool's 'history' are underachieving this season, and one wonders what might have been if Rafa hadn't tapped-up Gareth Barry and lost both him and Alonso in the process... but regardless of the comparisons on squad personnel - it's the comparison of manager that's important at the moment. I think if most Liverpool fans could replace Rafa with MON right now, they'd all jump at it!!!!

Some enlightened fellow remarked earlier in the thread that Liverpool are underachieving, and that Villa are overachieving. Fair enough. But by that rationale, it could also be said that Liverpool players aren't playing for their manager. Whilst the Villa players are playing out of their skin for theirs. Which isn't a million miles form the truth. Liverpool fans shouldn't be happy with, or making excuses like that...

On paper I'm thinkin this one is fairly balanced. I'm just wondering what team Liverpool will start with tonight... 2 games ago Rafa started a 5 man midfield with a defender - Dossena - on the left wing, against the league's bottom club Portsmouth, and lost. Decisions like that tonight could swing this tie in Villa's favour.

FutureGuy

I think Liverpool will be happy with a point tonight. However, I think Villa will beat them 2-0. Would like Torres to score for my fantasy footie team, but don't think it's going to happen.

greendom

Joe Freezing Palate wrote: »

This has to be a piss take,the Liverpool team is so far superior to the Villa team its laughable.

Liverpool are playing terribly,the worst they have for years.
Villa are playing out of their skins and are 2 points in front.
No matter who wins (I think draw),Liverpool will finish in the top 4 comfortably and the Vila fans will be cheering their best ever season.

so far superior it's laughable ? Have you actually watched any football with the 2 teams in question.

invincibleirish

Don't bother giving the LFC fanboi's the oxygen for spreading their pie in the sky views Wynters. Villa are going for the double over this lot, we beat them in August when Villa were low in confidence and very much under strength and we should beat then again tonight if the formbook is anything to go by, they know it, we know it.

A jammy win over Wolves thanks to their twelfth man (the ref) is all they have to show for themselves, all Villa gotta do is score once and watch as the heads go down.

Up The Villa

Chardee MacDennis

wynters wrote: »

I think if most Liverpool fans could replace Rafa with MON right now, they'd all jump at it!!!!

any sensible liverpool fan would not imo....

Kess73

Lots of silly arguements in this thread.


On current form Villa are the better team/squad so far this season. The league table does not lie on that.

As for which team will do better this season? I hope it is Liverpool but I cannot say for sure, and neither can anyone else on here say which team will finish the highest until we get to the end of May.

Some of the slagging about how Villa would call this their greatest ever season if they make the top four is laughable.

I am old enough to remember Villa as league champions and I can also remember them as Champions of Europe.

Villa area club with a great history, seven league titles, seven FA cups, a European cup and various other silverware says that.

Ok the newer generations of Villa fans have been a bit starved of genuine silverware, but us Liverpool fans should have an understanding of how it feels to go a long time without something we really want.


As for tonight's game. A win is the only result that could be counted as a good result for Liverpool. A loss or a draw will just be more points dropped and a continuation of the sequence of dropping points after every win.

The constant excuses and the constant lack of heart from the players has grated with me this season.

Kess73

wynters wrote: »

- it's the comparison of manager that's important at the moment. I think if most Liverpool fans could replace Rafa with MON right now, they'd all jump at it!!!!

Have to say I would hate to see MON ever become the Liverpool manager. Now that is not to say he is a bad manager or only suitable for a certain level of club, because I think he will have a good shot at the United job when it finally becomes available, plus he has done a good job at Villa to date.

ROCKMAN

Kess73 wrote: »

Lots of silly arguements in this thread.


On current form Villa are the better team/squad so far this season. The league table does not lie on that.

As for which team will do better this season? I hope it is Liverpool but I cannot say for sure, and neither can anyone else on here say which team will finish the highest until we get to the end of May.

Some of the slagging about how Villa would call this their greatest ever season if they make the top four is laughable.

I am old enough to remember Villa as league champions and I can also remember them as Champions of Europe.

Villa area club with a great history, seven league titles, seven FA cups, a European cup and various other silverware says that.

Ok the newer generations of Villa fans have been a bit starved of genuine silverware, but us Liverpool fans should have an understanding of how it feels to go a long time without something we really want.


As for tonight's game. A win is the only result that could be counted as a good result for Liverpool. A loss or a draw will just be more points dropped and a continuation of the sequence of dropping points after every win.

The constant excuses and the constant lack of heart from the players has grated with me this season.

Good post sir , Nail on the head.

SlickRic

Tomthepost wrote: »

Im falling over laughing:D:D:D. Most of the Villa players you mentioned cost no money whatsoever. One (Knight) was sold for a profit and done an ok job as a 4th choice centre half. One (Davies) is injured and was called up to the England panel last season. I wouldn't class Reo-Coker as a bad signing. Was man of the match when we beat you 3-1 this season. Shorey hasn't worked out but at the time he seemed like a good signing. Moloney missed his Mammy but done very well during his time at Villa. Harewood was a stop-gap and always had a good attitude when he was given game time.
O'Neill has spent FCUK all compared to Rafa and half the good signings you claim Rafa made have now moved or been moved on.

you make laugh.

use the same criteria for judging success for Rafa's signings as you do MON's please.

in particular, the excuses you give for the likes of Maloney, Harewood and Knight are brilliant, and if i dared make them for Rafa's, i suspect you'd have a field day taking the p*ss out of me.

the Villa squad is on a par with the Liverpool one at least I would say, with the Liverpool first choice XI probably a little better, mainly due to Gerrard and Torres.

as for the game, 1-1.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes it has all the makings of a low scoring affair. Pools build up play a bit laboured and by what i saw of Wolves game I think our best chance of breaking down Villa is down the wings.
Would like to see Rafa throw Pacheco in as he is very willing and its what we need at the moment

evil_seed

i'm expecting a villa win . the reasoning being tht everytime pool win one the lose the next. that has been the trend as of late and i expect it to continue

Spiritoftheseventies

evil_seed wrote: »

i'm expecting a villa win . the reasoning being tht everytime pool win one the lose the next. that has been the trend as of late and i expect it to continue

Or it could be we go on a run of ten or eleven games unbeaten

Hoki

BBC Website:

"Liverpool are unbeaten in their last 11 league visits to Villa (W6, D5) since a 2-1 defeat in February 1998. Villa only scored in four of those fixtures."

I know that doesnt count for much seeing as villa hadn't beaten united in a similar period of time before this season but i think Liverpool can take a small bit of confidence from such a stat.

I can definitely see us nicking a point, i think there'll be goals tonight with a 2-2 draw being my prediction.

Gillington

The comparisons between the two clubs are a lot more then what people are arguing here,in my opinion.It seems to be that anytime spent outside the top 4 for Liverpool is deemed a failure but being honest its only Liverpool fans that really think they deserve to be in the top 4.

I fear for pool fans after their 2-0 win away to Wolves,all I can see is that result papered over the cracks that were beginning to form and tonights game is a typical tough encounter that I think will require character and resolve from them to get anything out of their season.A loss here could end up being the eye-opener for fans,players and manager alike that they aren't good enough and that Rafa needs to go or at the very least re-assess his transfer policy.

Villa sit 3 places above Pool with 3 losses less then them,facts dont lie,Villa have been the better team this season and this cant be denied.One thing to look at is the way both clubs have played since losing two integral players.Barry for Villa and Alonso for Liverpool.MON has taken a leaf from Fergies book and realised that one of the major strengths of a manager is being able to get his team focused after the loss of a big name,in Fergies case,Ronaldo,Beckham,Van Nistelrooy et al.In MON's case,for a while he got the best out of Petrov,Sidwell and even troubled Reo-Coker in the CM before realising the potential of Milner in the middle.Rafa hasnt been able to do this since Alonso's departure,fair enough Aqualani hs been injured but Rafa knew this when signing him and still,imo failed to get anything out of Lucas and Masch and if anything it exposed how badly Gerrard needed Alonso.

Anyway I am babbling on here,for the sake of Rafa fans,Liverpool badly need a win here but I dont know if losing tonight(or losing Rafa) is such a bad thing.

Chardee MacDennis

Gillington wrote: »

I fear for pool fans after their 2-0 win away to Wolves,all I can see is that result papered over the cracks that were beginning to form and tonights game is a typical tough encounter that I think will require character and resolve from them to get anything out of their season.A loss here could end up being the eye-opener for fans,players and manager alike that they aren't good enough and that Rafa needs to go or at the very least re-assess his transfer policy.

so if liverpool do win will this be another papering over the cracks or will it show we have the neccesaary character and resolve and we may be starting to show it again?

SlickRic

Gillington wrote: »

The comparisons between the two clubs are a lot more then what people are arguing here,in my opinion.It seems to be that anytime spent outside the top 4 for Liverpool is deemed a failure but being honest its only Liverpool fans that really think they deserve to be in the top 4.

at this moment, we are rightly classified as one of the 'top 4' (although i hate the term).

over the last 3/4 years we are more solidified in that position than arsenal.

so yes, being outside the 'top 4' is a failure.

on this season's form we don't deserve to be there, of course not. the table does not lie.

Chardee MacDennis

SlickRic wrote: »

the table does not lie.

the table is merely an indication of form until the end of the season...

Kess73

BastardPrince wrote: »

the table is merely an indication of form until the end of the season...

This is true, and as such it is a accurate guage of form up to this point. So when a person says the table does not lie, they are correct,as each team is where they are in the table based on how good or bad they have been.

So as the table stands today Liverpool are where they are in the table on merit, as are Villa.

Gillington

SlickRic wrote: »

at this moment, we are rightly classified as one of the 'top 4' (although i hate the term).

over the last 3/4 years we are more solidified in that position than arsenal.

so yes, being outside the 'top 4' is a failure.

on this season's form we don't deserve to be there, of course not. the table does not lie.

Yeah sorry I meant this season alright.

SlickRic

BastardPrince wrote: »

the table is merely an indication of form until the end of the season...

i agree.

that's what i said.

the table doesn't lie; we don't deserve to be there at this point in time. it could of course change though.

Bounty Hunter

The loss of Young is a big one. Yes his form hasnt been brilliant for us recently but he still pops with many an assist with his great crossing, plus his loss also means we have one less creative outlet meaning that Milner & downing will have to have big games for us to be as much of a threat going forward. Villa will also need whomever it is that comes in for young (although they will play in midfield), be it NRC or Sidwell to have a big game.

Villa know how to play Liverpool, having already beaten them this season so I have some confidence but dont think this will be in any form an easy match. Despit it working the other way against Arsenal, I think not conceeding early will be huge for Villa. This is because Liverpool to me (and id guess most) seem really low on confidence and could get frustrated if a breakthrough doesent come and then leave gaps for Villa to exploit.

Brain says 1-1
Heart says 3-1 again to Villa

So Liverpool will probably get another 5 goals against us today



In a time zone / Unsure of when the game week starts mixup i coincidentally have Torres as captain of my FF team... FAIL.

Hopefull Dunne and Milner do the stuff for me though.

Hoki wrote: »

BBC Website:

"Liverpool are unbeaten in their last 11 league visits to Villa (W6, D5) since a 2-1 defeat in February 1998. Villa only scored in four of those fixtures."

I know that doesnt count for much seeing as villa hadn't beaten united in a similar period of time before this season but i think Liverpool can take a small bit of confidence from such a stat.

I wouldent take much confidence in that stat tbh esp as (like you pointed out) It was even longer since Villa beat Man Utd.

RasTa

Bookies have Liverpool as favourites which is suprising. What's Villa's home form this season?

Spiritoftheseventies

Villa defence will be a bit brittle after defeat to Arsenal. Always curious to see how a team reacts after defeat.

Bounty Hunter

RasTa wrote: »

Bookies have Liverpool as favourites which is suprising. What's Villa's home form this season?

well there isnt as big a gap between our home and away form (away usually better) as we have been picking up more 3 points there but i think Away form might still be better.

I dont think the defense will be brittle either, this was the best defense going by goals conceeded prior to that game and tbh had defended really well until Fabergas had his moment and none of the goals were really due to errors from defenders. They might have NRC in now doing some extra dogs body work in midfield too to help out.

PHB

I'm sorry, but a draw away to Villa is a good result. It's not a great result, but it's a solid decent result that I would be happy with even chasing the title. They are the best team outside the "top 4" and a draw against them away is a decent result. No other way of looking at it imo.

monkey9

If we beat Villa tonight, it would be our best result of the season so far, no question!

dannydiamond

monkey9 wrote: »

If we beat Villa tonight, it would be our best result of the season so far, no question!

In the context of our current form maybe, but beating United was pretty sweet!

curry-muff

dannydiamond wrote: »

In the context of our current form maybe, but beating United was pretty sweet!

Yeah but Liverpool are just our bogey team nowadays, just like Southampton and look where it got them

Spiritoftheseventies

curry-muff wrote: »

Yeah but Liverpool are just our bogey team nowadays, just like Southampton and look where it got them

If only your lot could grasp the concept of finishing the game with eleven men.

dannydiamond

bayviewclose wrote: »

If only your lot could grasp the concept of finishing the game with eleven men.

And not sh1tting themselves every time they play the pool.:pac:


Back on topic, there's a performance due from Liverpool and it will come,I have no doubt. Too much quality there not to step it up at some stage.I'm hoping it starts tonight and I honestly think 'Pool will win this.


Disclaimer:We all know how that pre match optomism kicks in the closer we come to kick off.:)

monkey9

dannydiamond wrote: »

In the context of our current form maybe, but beating United was pretty sweet!

Nah, i don't think so. I mean, it was great beating Utd, but those are just one off games and a win there was meant to kickstart things, which it didn't.

Tonight is the bread and butter. If we have any desire to retain our Champions League spot for next season, then tonight we have to show some mettle and not crumble like we did against Pompey and others.

Huge game tonight. Huge!!

Spiritoftheseventies

monkey9 wrote: »

Nah, i don't think so. I mean, it was great beating Utd, but those are just one off games and a win there was meant to kickstart things, which it didn't.

Tonight is the bread and butter. If we have any desire to retain our Champions League spot for next season, then tonight we have to show some mettle and not crumble like we did against Pompey and others.

Huge game tonight. Huge!!

Yeah hard to believe we haven't won back to back games in the league since September