Oil boilers

Bull76

Hi Folks,

With all the cold weather and the numerous issues that appear to be listed here with Oil boilers. I have a few questions.
Is everyone that is working on these boilers Oftec certifed? Was looking at doing a heating controls course and it was said to me that the Oftec50 course would give me certification as the heating controls wouldn't. Bear in mind I'm not a plumber or oil trained, but very technically minded and experienced in maintenance of high tech tools.
I have been made redundant and have been luck enough to get a short term contract, but with each day there I have the privilege of been told I'll be the first to go when things change. So with all that have been looking to better myself and get some experience. I've finished a refresher course on motor control and fault analysis through fas. Was down to do a PLC course also.
But looking to get some hands on experience with anyone looking for a good all rounder. Willing to work for free to get experience, don't mind electrical, plumbing work.
There isn't much options out there at the moment, but if anyone is interested then get back to me.

Mod's if you feel this is inappropiate then delete this thread.

Regards,
Bull76.

items

Bull76 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

With all the cold weather and the numerous issues that appear to be listed here with Oil boilers. I have a few questions.
Is everyone that is working on these boilers Oftec certifed? Was looking at doing a heating controls course and it was said to me that the Oftec50 course would give me certification as the heating controls wouldn't. Bear in mind I'm not a plumber or oil trained, but very technically minded and experienced in maintenance of high tech tools.
I have been made redundant and have been luck enough to get a short term contract, but with each day there I have the privilege of been told I'll be the first to go when things change. So with all that have been looking to better myself and get some experience. I've finished a refresher course on motor control and fault analysis through fas. Was down to do a PLC course also.
But looking to get some hands on experience with anyone looking for a good all rounder. Willing to work for free to get experience, don't mind electrical, plumbing work.
There isn't much options out there at the moment, but if anyone is interested then get back to me.

Mod's if you feel this is inappropiate then delete this thread.

Regards,
Bull76.

Their is very little regulation with oil boilers, to be honest not many people will ask for paperwork, certificates etc. I would recommended obtaining some certificates as some changes in regulations are on the horizon.

Not so long ago anyone with a small amount of experience could work on gas, gas supply was very under regulated but its only been recently changed. Now only RGI persons can work with gas and lots of people face waiting list, wanting to obtain RGI certs.

Ireland is a relatively new country, only 90 or so years old so we are playing catch up with regulation.

If you can obtain certs now while its quiet, you'll be set up to start working straight away but it's going to take some time before regulation happens.

Also have a look at LPG certs, again thats another under regulated fuel supply.

Plumbing in general is real quite at moment, so might be best to look for work else where but at the same time obtain some certs.

First to come will be water rates, after water rate is introduced you'll see a move towards regulation of the entire plumbing an heating system.

Best of luck.

Just a note for anyone reading with an oil boiler concern. A lot of oil boiler problems seen here on boards are all down to bad installations. A lot of the recent problems are to do with lower outside temperatures than norm. People are having to turn boilers up higher than they have ever before. If boilers had been installed correctly, simple things like proper frost stats installed and systems filled with inhibitors which reduce risk of frost a lot of these problems would not happen.

In Ireland it is only a recommendation that oil boiler installers have either Oftec certs or boiler manufacture certs, its not a requirement. Ireland is one of the few country's in the world to have such minimal regulation towards plumbing and heating so the standard of heating/plumbing installation is terrible. Unfortunately that is why it costs you a fortune to keep systems maintained and running.

JamesM

Bull76 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

With all the cold weather and the numerous issues that appear to be listed here with Oil boilers. I have a few questions.
Is everyone that is working on these boilers Oftec certifed? Was looking at doing a heating controls course and it was said to me that the Oftec50 course would give me certification as the heating controls wouldn't. Bear in mind I'm not a plumber or oil trained, but very technically minded and experienced in maintenance of high tech tools.
I have been made redundant and have been luck enough to get a short term contract, but with each day there I have the privilege of been told I'll be the first to go when things change. So with all that have been looking to better myself and get some experience. I've finished a refresher course on motor control and fault analysis through fas. Was down to do a PLC course also.
But looking to get some hands on experience with anyone looking for a good all rounder. Willing to work for free to get experience, don't mind electrical, plumbing work.
There isn't much options out there at the moment, but if anyone is interested then get back to me.

Mod's if you feel this is inappropiate then delete this thread.

Regards,
Bull76.

An Oftec course is probably a good idea. Most of the young guys who decide to get into boiler servicing stick to gas and don't know much about oil. Gas is easy, you just replace parts when there is a problem. Oil is a lot more difficult - there are a lot more things that can go wrong, and you need a lot more experience than you can get from a course.
I would suggest doing the course and, if possible work with an old timer, who will know, and pass on, all the tricks to you.
In a few years, all the old guys will be gone and the young guys, who have done gas courses just don't have a clue about oil. Experience combined with a course is what you need to be there at the right time.
Jim.

items

JamesM wrote: »

An Oftec course is probably a good idea. Most of the young guys who decide to get into boiler servicing stick to gas and don't know much about oil. Gas is easy, you just replace parts when there is a problem. Oil is a lot more difficult - there are a lot more things that can go wrong, and you need a lot more experience than you can get from a course.
I would suggest doing the course and, if possible work with an old timer, who will know, and pass on, all the tricks to you.
In a few years, all the old guys will be gone and the young guys, who have done gas courses just don't have a clue about oil. Experience combined with a course is what you need to be there at the right time.
Jim.

Bit over the top Jim. no need to be comparing Oil and Gas like that. Anyway, Gas boilers have way more parts, controls, wiring, electrics along with everything else. You need an awful lot more qualifications to work with Gas, its way more dangerous than Oil.

Oil boilers are fairly simple to be honest, all you have is a big metal box and a burner.

JamesM

items wrote: »

Bit over the top Jim. no need to be comparing Oil and Gas like that. Anyway, Gas boilers have way more parts, controls, wiring, electrics along with everything else. You need an awful lot more qualifications to work with Gas, its way more dangerous than Oil.

Oil boilers are fairly simple to be honest, all you have is a big metal box and a burner.

Here we go again
A gas burner is very simple - a few holes that gas comes through, a spark to light it and a control panel to control it. Gas is more dangerous and that's why a lot of people still won't have it in their houses. A gas leak can kill you, an oil leak smells and makes a mess.
An oil burner is much more complicated and has many more parts. A breakdown list can be seen in any manual. You can do a course and be an expert on gas in a week. You need a lot more experience to work on an oil burner. The temperatures at the moment do not cause problems for kerosene burners. Some gas oil burners may have ignition problems. The main problems at the moment are that some people are turning their boiler thermostats above the recomended temperatures.
Jim.

I would look at the gas route GID and GIS are unfailable and you wouldn't be any worse than some of the planks now listed as RGI, if you get your papers it would make you more interesting for employers, as for the oil & gas debate i hate oil, i have fixed every oil boiler thats come my way but they kill my analyzers, and which is easier that would come down to experience, gas is easy but there are so many fruitloops getting the basics wrong they make me look like a technician:D, Gary.

items

JamesM wrote: »

Here we go again
A gas burner is very simple - a few holes that gas comes through, a spark to light it and a control panel to control it. Gas is more dangerous and that's why a lot of people still won't have it in their houses. A gas leak can kill you, an oil leak smells and makes a mess.
An oil burner is much more complicated and has many more parts. A breakdown list can be seen in any manual. You can do a course and be an expert on gas in a week. You need a lot more experience to work on an oil burner. The temperatures at the moment do not cause problems for kerosene burners. Some gas oil burners may have ignition problems. The main problems at the moment are that some people are turning their boiler thermostats above the recomended temperatures.
Jim.

Jim, listen up you'll learn loads from me.

Boiler thermostat max setting is normally around 85, thats 85 remember.

High limit stat starts becoming sensitive at around 95 to 100, somewhere around 111 will turn an oil boiler off by high limit.

Hiring the stat is not the problem, stat can be set at max all the time everyday of the week and not cause a single problem. Problem's lately is poor installation and service combined with recent cold weather.

I'm glad your posting as your comments are becoming a sense of amusement.

JamesM

items wrote: »

Jim, listen up you'll learn loads from me.

Boiler thermostat max setting is normally around 85, thats 85 remember.

High limit stat starts becoming sensitive at around 95 to 100, somewhere around 111 will turn an oil boiler off by high limit.

Hiring the stat is not the problem, stat can be set at max all the time everyday of the week and not cause a single problem. Problem's lately is poor installation and service combined with recent cold weather.

I'm glad your posting as your comments are becoming a sense of amusement.

:D:D:D:D: Now I am laughing - although it's not a laughing matter :eek:

Back to SCHOOL items: The boiling point of water is 100 degrees centigrade - at that temperature, the boiler starts dancing around the room. If the burner is still running, fairly soon after that, the boiler blows up :eek::eek::eek:

Water does not reach 111 degrees - only steam :eek: By then the boiler has burst :eek::eek::eek:
You have just shown that you don't have a clue and that you are winding us up. Great joke Hope that it kept you ammused over Christmas.
OK everybody, Nothing more to see here - You can all go home now
JIm.

items

JamesM wrote: »

:D:D:D:D: Now I am laughing - although it's not a laughing matter :eek:

Back to SCHOOL items: The boiling point of water is 100 degrees centigrade - at that temperature, the boiler starts dancing around the room. If the burner is still running, fairly soon after that, the boiler blows up :eek::eek::eek:

Water does not reach 111 degrees - only steam :eek: By then the boiler has burst :eek::eek::eek:
You have just shown that you don't have a clue and that you are winding us up. Great joke Hope that it kept you ammused over Christmas.
OK everybody, Nothing more to see here - You can all go home now
JIm.

Jim, with all do respect. Here is the facts taken from the Grant Boiler Service and Installation Manual link you provided.

Boiler thermostat range 65 to 85 degree C.

Limit (safety) thermostat switch off temp 111 degree C + or - 3 degree C.

Not another single one of your comments will I respond to, you are a true embarrassment, its really a waste of my time.

JamesM

items wrote: »

Jim, with all do respect. Here is the facts taken from the Grant Boiler Service and Installation Manual link you provided.

Boiler thermostat range 65 to 85 degree C.

Limit (safety) thermostat switch off temp 111 degree C + or - 3 degree C.

Not another single one of your comments will I respond to, you are a true embarrassment, its really a waste of my time.

No matter what figures are written there, most limit stats will shut off between 98 and 100. Even if the system is pressurised, the water will boil very close to 100.
Jim.

steamengine

Just a quick comment on the 111 deg. C. that has been mentioned. A Boiling point of 111 deg. C. corresponds to a pressure of 1.5 bar Absolute (0.5 bar gauge pressure) approx. Its 100 deg. C at normal atmospheric pressure ie 1 bar Abs. or 0 bar gauge pressure.

The boiling point of water is related to the boiler pressure. In a central heating system the extra 0.5 bar corresponds to a 15ft head of water approx. as would be provided by an attic header tank. So, yes a water temperature of 111 deg. C and higher is possible in a central heating boiler.

Bull76

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who replied. Really not sure what is involved in gas and oil servicing. Have observed a few of either. Gas seemed very straight forward. The oil required a little more but not over complicated. Was interested in your comments, the idea of working with some one who is very experienced and gaining some vital experience and input. Anyone any ideas of how to go about this other than cold contacting some one. Really looking to do something on my days off and see what it involves and see if I would enjoy it.
Have spend the last 12 yrs maintaining semiconductor tool sets so have gained alot of experience from that. Nearly accepted an electrical apprenticeship but got messed around by the person. Thing is if I'm going to be unemployed and on the dole which I'll get f all, then I would do an apprenticeship just to retrain at something and always have it to benefit me.
Again, thanks to all who replied.

You can do a gas service engineer course in the UK, it go's on for about 12 weeks or so and you get a qualification at the end, Gas boilers are very logical and tell you what is wrong with them, most defects i deal with are so stupid/basic i have lost faith in the " gas engineer of Ireland" so if you start out by reading the service manual you are ahead of the rest i deal with, you'll find boiler instructions now days give you pictures of the parts you may need to remove, they tell you tool to use with pictures of the tool and how long it should take, so there is no mystery to working on gas it all in the book that comes with every appliance, if you have a healthy respect for things that can go bang and can develop gasman paranoia which leads to OSD issues for checking gas connections then the rest is easy, Gary.

JamesM

This part of the discussion started because of the extra cold weather, when people turned up their boiler thermostats and the limit buttons tripped out in some cases. In most cases, this is not a problem and the button has just to be reset and the thermostat turned back down a bit. Then someone suggested that the boiler manufacturers were trying to hide that button from the householder and I pointed out that there was a description on the first few pages of the “USER MANUAL” – not the installer manual, so it was meant for the user so that they would know how to reset it, if it tripped out. Naturally, if it was happening regularly when the stat was at the normal temperature, then a service engineer should be consulted.
I would like to point out a few facts:
Most oil boilers in Ireland are between 10 and 40 years old. Most of these systems do not have a pressure of 1.5 bar, or close. Mostly these boiler stats are set at 60 in the mild weather and might be raised to 70 or 75 during a cold spell. Most limit stats trip out at about 95 to 100, before the water in the boiler boils. Has anyone that posted said that they heard bubbling or banging in their pipes before the limit stat tripped ?
Finally, if your limit stat trips, reset it and turn down the stat a bit – if it continues to do it, call a service engineer.
Jim.